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The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0


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Fox news station said we will be in war with Iran soon. Oh joy! I also heard we would be at war with China within the next ten years.

Honestly, if the US gets into any more wars, we're done. We can't keep fighting wars against countries that will never get tired of fighting and killing Americans and even their own people to keep their power.

the human race is doomed. Not surprised by this at all. And all this as the virus rages on. It's a war we can't win.

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You must have missed the nearly 20 year history I have of rooting for GN'R online through every line up change, every delay, every canceled tour, every riot, every late start and so on and so on. 

Illegally bombing countries already huh?

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38 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I guess hate is a strong word, but you have dedicated so much of your postcount taking stabs at them in the GnR section, so forgive me for thinking that you must really, really dislike them, and now you're even comparing them in here to that piece of shit and worst president ever.

You must have missed the nearly 20 year history I have of rooting for GN'R online through every line up change, every delay, every canceled tour, every riot, every late start and so on and so on. 

And yes, I did jokingly compare them to Trump, but it's GN'Rs fault those comparisons can be made, not mine. 

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9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

You must have missed the nearly 20 year history I have of rooting for GN'R online through every line up change, every delay, every canceled tour, every riot, every late start and so on and so on. 

I have, but even if I hadn't, it doesn't really matter. I was merely explaining how I came to the observation that you must not like them anymore these days. Needless to say you must have liked them at one point, otherwise I am not sure what you are doing here in the first place.

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1 minute ago, EvanG said:

I have, but even if I hadn't, it doesn't really matter. I was merely explaining how I came to the observation that you must not like them anymore these days. Needless to say you must have liked them at one point, otherwise I am not sure what you are doing here in the first place.

 We don't have a new album nor we have news  or interviews of any kind. But we have plenty of merch and stupid children books that they want fans to buy. You can't expect fans to give Axl/GN'R an standing ovation.

P.S. This kind of conversation belongs in the main forum. This thread is about politics

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1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I guess hate is a strong word, but you have dedicated so much of your postcount taking stabs at them in the GnR section, so forgive me for thinking that you must really, really dislike them, and now you're even comparing them in here to that piece of shit and worst president ever.

Okay, let's take it down a notch.

It was a fair comparison if you get the tone in which it was said.

For over a decade we had fans here always give Axl and Guns the benefit of the doubt, no matter how often GNR failed to come through.  That's not an opinion, but a truth known by anyone like Russ who has been around this forum and the fanbase as long as Russ has.

That doesn't make Axl worshipping fans akin to Qanon supporters.  But there was a similar dynamic.

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6 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Fox news station said we will be in war with Iran soon. Oh joy! I also heard we would be at war with China within the next ten years.

Honestly, if the US gets into any more wars, we're done. We can't keep fighting wars against countries that will never get tired of fighting and killing Americans and even their own people to keep their power.

the human race is doomed. Not surprised by this at all. And all this as the virus rages on. It's a war we can't win.

I was thinking about the future of the US today on my drive into work. 

The fact is there are countries out there more than happy to see us fall.

 Let alone take us over. 

It's a real threat I don't see people taking seriously.

China really needs to be addressed. They are the elephant in the room and no country wants to start the discussion.

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57 minutes ago, arnold layne said:

I was thinking about the future of the US today on my drive into work. 

The fact is there are countries out there more than happy to see us fall.

 Let alone take us over. 

It's a real threat I don't see people taking seriously.

China really needs to be addressed. They are the elephant in the room and no country wants to start the discussion.

I think you're seeing ghosts to an extent. I have a more nuanced take. Now, China wants to be the world power (and really, why shouldn't they?). But why would they want to take over the US as a client state? This place is a mess and they'd need to invest a hell of a lot of money to control it. If anything, they'll just continue to buy resources they want and sell us their products. That relationship is working out pretty well and they have no incentive to upset the apple cart.

And the other thing that confuses me about this take, is that why aren't you more concerned about raising up your own country and making it better for the people who live there, rather than worrying about knocking down another country?

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The US would nuke the planet into oblivion before it allowed another country to invade and conquer it.  It's never going to happen (unless the invading country could somehow shut down all nuclear weapons within the US arsenal, which doesn't seem feasible in the slightest).  America's nuclear deterrence, geographic size, global position (with two oceans on each side) and overall temperament would make it impossible conquer.

More likely to happen, in my opinion, in the next twenty to fifty years is the US fractures and returns to a state of confederation or defensive alliance.

 

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

The US would nuke the planet into oblivion before it allowed another country to invade and conquer it.  It's never going to happen (unless the invading country could somehow shut down all nuclear weapons within the US arsenal, which doesn't seem feasible in the slightest).  America's nuclear deterrence, geographic size, global position (with two oceans on each side) and overall temperament would make it impossible conquer.

More likely to happen, in my opinion, in the next twenty to fifty years is the US fractures and returns to a state of confederation or defensive alliance.

 

I don't think people realize how modern geopolitics works. This isn't like the British empire days where a country could literally just occupy another country with colonial troops. That's expensive as hell and bad optics to boot. Much easier to manipulate countries economically.

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5 hours ago, arnold layne said:

I was thinking about the future of the US today on my drive into work. 

The fact is there are countries out there more than happy to see us fall.

 Let alone take us over. 

It's a real threat I don't see people taking seriously.

China really needs to be addressed. They are the elephant in the room and no country wants to start the discussion.

Only extremists in the Middle East might be happy to see the U.S. fall. But not China, they need Iowa badly. They buy plenty of soybean. The problem is business vs foreign policy.  Western countries turning a blind eye to serious issues in the name of business

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17 hours ago, Padme said:

You can't expect fans to give Axl/GN'R an standing ovation.

I never said that I expect that, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

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6 hours ago, Padme said:

Only extremists in the Middle East might be happy to see the U.S. fall. But not China, they need Iowa badly. They buy plenty of soybean. The problem is business vs foreign policy.  Western countries turning a blind eye to serious issues in the name of business

China has a nuanced view on this I'd imagine. They don't want the US to completely fall apart, because they'd lose a market to sell products to. But they also probably don't mind that the US has been slowly losing power and prestige for decades, and that the military gap has significantly closed between the two countries. 

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2 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

China has a nuanced view on this I'd imagine. They don't want the US to completely fall apart, because they'd lose a market to sell products to. But they also probably don't mind that the US has been slowly losing power and prestige for decades, and that the military gap has significantly closed between the two countries. 

Chines sells products to the U.S. And the U.S. sells products to China. The problem is it's too unbalance.  Also during the cold war China and the Soviet Union hated each other guts despite the fact that they were the same shit with different smell. So the U.S. started a new relationship with China. I agree the U.S. has lost power and prestige. China has power but not prestige

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2 hours ago, Padme said:

Chines sells products to the U.S. And the U.S. sells products to China. The problem is it's too unbalance.  Also during the cold war China and the Soviet Union hated each other guts despite the fact that they were the same shit with different smell. So the U.S. started a new relationship with China. I agree the U.S. has lost power and prestige. China has power but not prestige

China is gaining prestige though. The US has lost a lot of it based on their middle east policies.

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21 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

the other thing that confuses me about this take, is that why aren't you more concerned about raising up your own country and making it better for the people who live there

or American foreign policy and the impact it has. There is a reason we are considered the greatest threat to world peace.

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If I’m constantly giving Joe Rogan shit for giving Alex Jones a platform, I’m certainly not going to give him one here.

Please go elsewhere if you’re interested in discussing wackjobs. 

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3 minutes ago, Ratbrain said:

 

Got 20 seconds in and had to turn it off.

It’s all such nonsense.  How anyone takes any of this seriously is beyond me. Not a single sincere or credible point made.  The guy is a joke 

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7 minutes ago, Ratbrain said:

Not a single sincere or credible point made after 20 seconds .

 

The only joke is you. delete my account. Enjoy your mini dicktatorship.

Let the door hit you on the way out

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11 minutes ago, Ratbrain said:

Not a single sincere or credible point made after 20 seconds .

 

The only joke is you. delete my account. Enjoy your mini dicktatorship.


I have to laugh at the notion that denial of the worst kinds of false information and hyperbole is akin to some sort of dictatorship.

It’s amazing that those who post videos to Alex Jones of all people cry about being persecuted.

Again, what a joke a certain segment of the population has become. 

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@Dazey

Doesn't look good for your boy Newsome...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/gavin-newsom-california-governor-recall-coronavirus.html

Recall campaign underway.

Not sure what will happen but California's response has been a mess.  He might survive the recall efforts but this has not helped him if his intentions were to run for President in eight years.  

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In almost every respect, Trump's trade war with China was an abysmal failure:

https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-china-failure-6111a412-9458-438e-ab2f-a4b7481f89e3.html

- failed to change the direction of trade deficits; US trade deficit with China only grew
- failed to get China to comply to any negotiated settlements as a result of the sanctions
- cost the US economy 245,000 jobs
- raised prices on consumer goods, negating any gains from lowered federal income taxes
- fewer companies invested in the US in comparison to other nations. 

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14 minutes ago, downzy said:

In almost every respect, Trump's trade war with China was an abysmal failure:

https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-china-failure-6111a412-9458-438e-ab2f-a4b7481f89e3.html

- failed to change the direction of trade deficits; US trade deficit with China only grew
- failed to get China to comply to any negotiated settlements as a result of the sanctions
- cost the US economy 245,000 jobs
- raised prices on consumer goods, negating any gains from lowered federal income taxes
- fewer companies invested in the US in comparison to other nations. 

One thing I will appreciate about his legacy however is that he brought this necessary discussion to the forefront of American politics. The previous 20 years of turning a blind eye to the dark side of globalism was not the move. Unfortunately he didn't possess even half of the intelligence or subtlety required to appropriately work on this issue.

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42 minutes ago, Jakey Styley said:

One thing I will appreciate about his legacy however is that he brought this necessary discussion to the forefront of American politics. The previous 20 years of turning a blind eye to the dark side of globalism was not the move. Unfortunately he didn't possess even half of the intelligence or subtlety required to appropriately work on this issue.

Obama addresses this issue in his biography (I'm 500 of 700 pages in).

He agrees that the can was kicked down the road by Clinton and Bush; not much was done to get China to comply with international trading norms and rules.

Where I am in the book is around 2009/2010 when Obama first travelled to China.  As Obama argues in his book, the problem was that pushing China on these issues at the time wasn't possible since the world economy was delicate.  A trade war with China was the last thing the global economy needed.  Never mind the fact that the Chinese government held $700 billion in US debt at the time and could fuck over the credit market if it wanted to retaliate.  

The problem with Trump is that his solutions to this issue were never going to work.  The US no longer has the leverage on its own to box China in to act in accordance with global trading rules and norms.  I also think it's wrong to believe, like Bernie Sanders and some in the progressive left, that you can simply scale back globalism.  The genie is kind of out of the bottle.  You can trim around the sides, but wholesale disruption to the US-China trading relationship is going to cause more damage than solve problems.  I do think the strategy of boxing China in with its neighbours through something like TPP was the best course.

The long term strategy, employed by Germany and Scandinavian countries, is to invest in education and a concerted industrial policy that partners free enterprise and government support.  Unfortunately that path doesn't seem viable for a country like the US at the moment where everything is a partisan slug fest.   

 

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