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How Well Do You Think 2000 Intentions era CD Would Have Been Received?


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Let’s REWIND THE CLOCK BACK 20 years. Actually 22.....Jesus.

It’s 1999 and Axl announces the new album with interviews etc with Kurt Loder and goes into the sound of the album, who’s playing what etc:

Loder: This "End of Days" track, "Oh My God," is real, real different. Have you been listening to [or] working with samples and stuff a lot? Has your whole musical approach changed?

Rose: No, not a lot, no. Basically, [I'm] listening to everything that's out there as far as music goes. That was a big difference between myself and Slash and Duff, is that I didn't hate everything new that came out. I really liked the Seattle movement. I like White Zombie. I like Nine Inch Nails, and I like hip-hop. I don't hate everything. I don't think everybody should be worshiping me 'cause I was around before them.

So once it was really understood by me that I'm really not going to be able to make the right old-style Guns N' Roses record, and if I try to take into consideration what Guns did on "Appetite," which was to kind of be a melting pot of a lot things that were going on, plus use past influences, I could make the right record if I used my influences from what I've been listening to that everybody else is listening to out there. So in that sense, I think it is like old Guns N' Roses as far as, like, the spirit and the attempt to throw all kinds of different styles together. If you get to the second guitar solo in "Oh My God," Paul's doing a very Izzy Stradlin-Aerosmith-type riff in the middle of the song, which is a completely different thing than everything else that's going on in the music, but yet it blends. There's a disco drum beat in the post-chorus, in the heaviest section of the song. We blended a lot of things.

SO! Hypothetically speaking let’s look at if it was released. So many “what it’s” here. Would Robin Finck have left? Would Dave Navarro have joined full time? Likely not. Of course Robin leaving paved the way for better things (no pun intended):

Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?

Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well. Robin's departure was abrupt, sudden, you know, not expected...

Loder: He just wanted to get back to Nine Inch Nails, right?

Rose: [continuing] ... but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. Robin did a great job, but we've been able to up the ante a little bit. Dave came in and did something great on "Oh My God," and we've had a few other people come in, so that was a setback for a while, but then it's turned out to be a good thing.

The fact is that, much like other musicians, Robin was fed up of a lack of progress, but Axl decided to throw a certain amount of shade at Robin and his guitar ability.

So let’s look at the big hitter album releases in the year 2000:

The most critically acclaimed artists of 2000 in alternative and rock music were Radiohead, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Modest Mouse, The Avalanches, Coldplay, Eminem, PJ Harvey, OutKast, At The Drive-In, Queens Of The Stone Age, Coldplay, Linkin Park and Creed (ugh) 

Comparative however to album sales in the United States, Santana was the biggest selling non-pop (that would go to N-Sync. Seriously) album of the year, with 3 Doors Down “The Better Life” and “Issues” by Korn being the only other two rock albums in the top 20.

That being said.....how does “Chinese Democracy” sound in 2000? We’ve heard minimal leaks from that supposed 70+ songs.

So what would it be? What does the album sound like? I think a stodgy mix of Industrial, Alternative and Heavy Metal numbers like Axl said the sound had become, with minimal acoustic and breaking numbers on the album like “Going Down”

One thing for sure though: Chinese Democracy would open the album, Prostitute would likely close it. We’d definitely see Rhiad, Oh My God, Eye On You and likely Devious Bastard on the album by my reckoning. And that’s a WEIRD album isn’t it?

Thoughts everyone? We’re not getting new music any time soon, so let’s talk hypothetical.

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They had so many chances if you really think about it. If they released it anywhere between 2000 and 2002 they would have avoided the whole "most expensive album never made" and all the other jokes re

Without slash it would have been received the same in 2000 as it was in 2008... slash is GN’R 

Songs like shacklers and riad, would have met better receptions in 2000 than in 2008 for sure. Plus there would have been a lot less meddling in the songs, with the layers and mixing. so the album probably would have been more successful. but the only 2 with radio play potential were chidem and better, in that era or 2008. 

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24 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Songs like shacklers and riad, would have met better receptions in 2000 than in 2008 for sure. Plus there would have been a lot less meddling in the songs, with the layers and mixing. so the album probably would have been more successful. but the only 2 with radio play potential were chidem and better, in that era or 2008. 

It still would have been too late in 2000 for those songs imo. OMG didn’t get great traction in 1999.  

From what we heard from the leaks and those versions that are more stripped back? The Blues, Chinese Democracy, and There Was A Time would have fared well. Those versions should have been released 

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it's a difficult question to answer cause we don't exactly know which tunes Axl would have picked if he released Chinese back in 2000. Also Tommy said the intention was to release more than just 1 disc and if Axl wanted to release a double album from the beginning that means there would have been more space to cover more musical ground.

regardless, I think if Axl released any version of Chinese in 2000, it could have sold well. Much more successful compared to how it fared when he actually released it. I'm not even going to attempt to guess a ballpark number cause there are too many unknown factors that would have dictated how well it would have been received imo.

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It's just speculation but probably much better than it was. 2-3x platinum in the US. With the right promotion and Better as the first single it would be considered a great comeback and a great starting point for the new band to do more in the future. Unfortunately what we got was one fuck-up after another.

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The album coming out between 2000 and 2002 would have led to a much higher chance of more GNR albums coming out following it; even if the album would have sucked more than the final 2008 product, we could have gotten more material out in the long run because of it.

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I really don't think it would have been successful.  The biggest issue was that this was released under the GNR brand name. If Axl didn't use the GNR name and released it in the early 00s, MAYBE it would have been more successful than 2008.  With that being said, it's speculation and a what if scenario. 

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If CD material would come out in 2000-2002 it would shake the rock scene. It could be a defining moment in new era Rock music, at least for its own decade. 

And people of 2021 would always think of it as an art piece that was way ahead of its time.

 

 

 

...Forget about all of that, instead we've got laundry bag + toy truck and son of Axl's toilet cleaner ridiculing passionate fans and trolling us in Reddit.

Edited by ©GnrPersia
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On 1/19/2021 at 1:45 AM, DefinitelyInThisLifetime said:

One thing for sure though: Chinese Democracy would open the album, Prostitute would likely close it. We’d definitely see Rhiad, Oh My God, Eye On You and likely Devious Bastard on the album by my reckoning. And that’s a WEIRD album isn’t it?

I don't think Eye On You would've been considered anything other than a B-side, at least at that stage. And if any of the instrumentals were in consideration I don't think Devious Bastard would've been at the top of the list (I'd guess Oklahoma since Axl mentioned what part of the lyrics were written about, and maybe Zodiac since it 'fits in' better with the finished songs. Dummy was rumoured to be Cuban Skies but who knows how true that is...)

It wouldn't have been as big a deal as the UYIs, but it likely would've been more successful than the 2008 release... mostly because there was still some mystery and curiosity around Axl, but by 2008 that was pretty much gone as far as mainstream rock fans were concerned, he'd already blown his chance by not capitalizing in 2006.

If they'd released something like this around 2002 it would've been better received than the final album, IMO.

Spoiler

1. Chinese Democracy
2. Oh My God
3. Rhiad
4. Atlas Shrugged
5. The Blues
6. Zodiac
7. State Of Grace
8. IRS
9. Hardschool
10. Perhaps
11. Madagascar
12. Prostitute

B-sides and tour edition bonus tracks:
Silkworms
If The World
Going Down

Then save stuff like Catcher, TWAT, Cuban Skies, Better, Sorry, This I Love, Soul Monster, The General, Oklahoma, Quicksong, etc for a 2006 album.

The point is they had enough material for a good album in 2001-02.
 

 

Edited by Gordon Comstock
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On 1/19/2021 at 7:13 AM, guitarpatch said:

It still would have been too late in 2000 for those songs imo. OMG didn’t get great traction in 1999.  

From what we heard from the leaks and those versions that are more stripped back? The Blues, Chinese Democracy, and There Was A Time would have fared well. Those versions should have been released 

OMG is just an odd track to release after 5 years. There's other tracks such as SOD or the title track that I believe would have done better along with promotion. It wouldn't have set the world on fire but the album would've done much better in that period.

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Hot take:

The album would’ve sold better, and us diehards would all like it better for being more of an “honest” reflection of what the band really was at the time... But in the long run, casual listeners would’ve ended up hating it more than they even do now.

As great as those 2000 demos sound, they’re missing one major thing that most casual audiences consider essential for Guns N’ Roses, and that’s solid lead guitar solos. On those 2000 versions of the songs, most of the leads come from a guy who wasn’t even in the band (Brian May). Besides, as poorly-received as chidem was in 2008, it seems to have gotten better reception now over time from casual listeners, from what I can tell.

In the end, the additions from Buckethead ended up being essential, and I’m one of the few people out there who also feel that Bumblefoot’s contributions were an improvement as well. That being said, I think the best time to put out the record would’ve been 2006, right when they started touring. Releasing it two years later was a mistake. Even releasing it one year later would’ve been a mistake. They had a short, but solid window in 2006, and they blew it...

 

Edited by rocknroll41
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1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

Hot take:

The album would’ve sold better, and us diehards would all like it better for being more of an “honest” reflection of what the band really was at the time... But in the long run, casual listeners would’ve ended up hating it more than they even do now.

As great as those 2000 demos sound, they’re missing one major thing that most casual audiences consider essential for Guns N’ Roses, and that’s solid lead guitar solos. On those 2000 versions of the songs, most of the leads come from a guy who wasn’t even in the band (Brian May). Besides, as poorly-received as chidem was in 2008, it seems to have gotten better reception now over time from casual listeners, from what I can tell.

In the end, the additions from Buckethead ended up being essential, and I’m one of the few people out there who also feel that Bumblefoot’s contributions were an improvement as well. That being said, I think the best time to put out the record would’ve been 2006, right when they started touring. Releasing it two years later was a mistake. Even releasing it one year later would’ve been a mistake. They had a short, but solid window in 2006, and they blew it...

 

I've always felt Axl needed 2 guitar players to fill the void that Slash has left when he quit Gn'R. Both Robin and Bucket are creative players (and I liked Bumble's additions too) but if it was only Bucket from the start it wouldn't have been as effective without Robin's unique note choices and phrasing and Robin without Bucket lacked the proper technical ability and fluidity you expect in a Gn'R record. the 2 dominating different styles kept things interesting and Bumble added another dimension to the music imo.

I think Axl was lucky. Robin and Bucket complimented each other so well with a lot of great solos. One of the elements that was missing was Slash's riffs though. It's a Gn'R staple but the album as a whole had a lot of other things going for it.

success or commercial failure, I think on an artistic level it's a great album that maybe could have been even better had Axl showed some restraint (the Catcher demo was much better imo) but I guess it's not that kind of an album and some of the magic couldn't have happened without Axl's approach to making it.

Edited by Rovim
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I like Ron, and he was great for the touring lineup, but nothing he added really improved the songs. Not that he necessarily made them worse (IRS aside) but most of his additions just needlessly clutter the songs. They should've dropped an album in 2006 (by the 2001-02 lineup) and then an EP or album in 2007-08 with Ron and Frank's additions. Oh well. :axl:

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1. CD

2. Hard School

3. Riad 

4. If the World 

5. The Blues

6. TWAT 

7. Catcher

8. State of Grace

9. IRS 

10. Perhaps 

11. Atlas 

12. Madagascar 

13. Prostitute 

All finished in 2000 era form that is far and away the best rock album of 2000 and is a better album than CD. So I think it would have been praised for its modernity blended with classic GNR feel. It probably sells 5-8 mil copies and paves the way for a follow up with everything else on CD that is not on that track list plus a bunch of the unheard holy grail songs. 

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47 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I like Ron, and he was great for the touring lineup, but nothing he added really improved the songs. Not that he necessarily made them worse (IRS aside) but most of his additions just needlessly clutter the songs. They should've dropped an album in 2006 (by the 2001-02 lineup) and then an EP or album in 2007-08 with Ron and Frank's additions. Oh well. :axl:

I actually like what Ron added to IRS, but to each their own!

Speaking of EP’s, sometimes I think NuGNR shouldve just two EP’s, one for the industrial songs, and one for the ballads.

Edited by rocknroll41
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7 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

I actually like what Ron added to IRS, but to each their own!

Speaking of EP’s, sometimes I think NuGNR shouldve just two EP’s, one for the industrial songs, and one for the ballads.

 

They had enough material to do a 10-track 'Guns' disc and a 10-track 'Roses' disc, then an EP with the weird shit like Silkworms.

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1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

They had enough material to do a 10-track 'Guns' disc and a 10-track 'Roses' disc, then an EP with the weird shit like Silkworms.

I think Axl got stuck in a mindset where he needs to do a double-LP for each new GNR release, so he's trapped in releasing double and quadruple albums whenever he wants to release anything.  :P  I've always assumed from the beginning Axl wanted sort of an Illusions 1 & 2 type of release for Chinese, except Chinese 1 would be a mostly "traditional" rock album while Chinese 2 would have a more "evolved" GNR sound.

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It probably would've sold decently on the back of the GNR name, plus the curiosity of wanting to see what the hell Axl was doing. But I think critically it would've been mostly written off as an aging rocker trying to copy the new trends of the day instead of following a more unique vision, even though it seems like his love of that style of music came from a really genuine place - that wouldn't matter to the reviewers. I really do wish we would've gotten that version of CD and maybe another record of more experimental nu-Guns stuff, I really think Axl was onto something with trying to massively shake the formula up given that he had a totally different band. An album full of industrial-esque stuff like Oh My God is honestly like my dream GNR release at this point, I loved the fire and murkiness of that song.

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20 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

slash is GN’R 

GET THAT GUY OUTTA HERE! ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME MODERATING TEAM...?!

All joking aside, the demand for music in general was far greater in the mid 90's early 00's than it was when Chinese was released and beyond, especially for Guns. It had become a joke throughout the media that it was the record that was never coming out, the most expensive album to never be released etc etc, plus, the botched promotion. I reckon it would have made a very big impact, especially with the sounds they came up with. Phenomenal. Either way, I'm just grateful to have it. Here's to more - soon.

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1 hour ago, megaguns1982 said:

Without slash it would have been received the same in 2000 as it was in 2008...

slash is GN’R 

I think you’re quite wrong there. There was a different scene in 2000, it was a strange time, but one that people would have said “ok Slash and those guys aren’t there” and perhaps it would have been as well received as some Sabbath albums, even Ozzy solo stuff. Slash brings no Guns to the Roses.

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