Best versions the CD tracks.

[rumandraisin]

Because I love a thread on comparing different mixes if the Chinese songs... 

CD - Josh drumming version. Tommy's bass is so hard. I love Buckets contributions though, presumably the 2007 leak is probably from around 2002 after his solo had been added, but the mix is different to the locker leak and the intro is absolute stupid. 

The Blues - maybe the Brain mix. The keyboard strings are cool. 

Riad - the Beaven mix is so cool. Heavy as fuck, the tambourine, bass, again is nice and raw and punky. Why did they neuter this track so much. 

If the world - actually the album mix for the real drums. The locker version sounds a bit messy and there's no drum roll in to the chorus. The 2008 leak has some nice funky guitar in the second chorus but, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I actually prefer Frank's drumming on it. 

Sorry - album version as the demo is instrumental. But... remember when Sebastian said it was like doom metal, the locker leak version had the heaviest grinding guitars, he wasn't kidding. As with all the tracks, had its balls chopped off on the album. 

IRS - not sure on this one. I actually like the sleazy guitars on the antiquiet leak in the last verse. and Dizzys nice electric piano sound. And Buckets solo is killer. But the drums are nice on the locker mix with Joshs heavy sound. 

Madagascar - the Brain drums up version sounds big and kinda Levee Breaks style which is how it should be. It's an epic, a big gun. I can see him sat in the attic with his drum transcripts all around him as he recorded this one. Only thing that let's it down is not having real strings. 

Catcher - they replace BRIAN May with bumble. Only in Gnr... Bumble is my least fave guitarist from guns. Dunno what it is about him. Just not a good fit, a poor man's bucket head. 

Prostitute - actually no idea. The bucket head bits are superb but the RTB version is pretty simple and I love the more stripped back approach. It's a bit Queen in places. The Antiquiet leak is pretty solid though, being a nice mix off the versions essentially. Not keen on how the drums are mixed though. Bumble is on this track, what dies he do exactly? A 3rd rhythm guitarist pretty much. Sums up the final album. 

Twat - 2006 long version for Buckets solo. RTB because it's a bit weird that there's minimal guitars in the verses and the chorus riff is killer. 1999 mix is interesting with the strings in the verse. I like Robins solo in this one a lot. I dunno, every version has its good points. Apart from the album one. 

Bassically anything but the album. Bumble was unnescary as was Frank. Album could have come out 2006, yes it's 6 years late but it had BH and still sounded heavy. With each new crop of leaks they seem to get lighter and less bass and drums. Had it have come out in 2001 I think it would have sounded amazing and so cool, but minimal BH contributions. Hes barely on the 2001 CD tracks, cd2 would have probably been the BH one with stuff like Devious Bastard, Sorry, Zodiac etc. A darker heavier album. Meaner. Ahhh if only this had happened. We'd have probably had cd3 by 2004, BH wouldn't have left so soon and we wouldn't have had the Ashba years. 

[Sledge]

Original performance of the blues was my fav. Rest of Chinese was pretty good. 

[Dean]

Chinese Democracy - RM01

Shacklers Revenge - Album

Better - Album

Street of Dreams - Album; Controversial, but in the long run, I think it will age a lot better than the guitars on the intro - they never really captured the feel that it had live on the studio take

If The World - Album

There Was A Time - Album; probably the song that benefitted from the years of tinkering. What a fucking song.

Catcher In The Rye - RM01

Scraped - No thanks

Riad N' The Bedouins - I love the rawness of the RM01 version. The copyright infringement dampened the enjoyment somewhat of the album version.

The rest of the record, I'm happy enough with the album versions, however I have big love for that '99 version of IRS, which is on RM03. The police sirens, Tobias and Finck fucking shine throughout. It has a phenomenal vibe, but by the same token, I love the punchiness of the album version. Either or, I'm grateful to have both along with the rest of the material that we got thanks to Uncle Tam not paying his locker bill. 

 

[Panda2]

5 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Catcher: reemplazan a BRIAN May con Bumble. Solo en GNR ... Bumble es mi guitarrista menos favorito de Guns. No sé de qué se trata. Simplemente no encaja bien, la cabeza de cubo de un pobre. 

What? Bumblefoot = Slash whit buckethead skills

Bumblefoot'solo is far superior, and overall Bumblefoot's work fixes that shitty demo whit May and elevates it to an epic level

The same in Riad , Bumblefoot's solo>>>>> shitty solo un the demo (Finck n Buckethead)

[jekylhyde]

3 hours ago, Nesret said:

I love the production-mess that CD is. :-D I can listen to it a thousand times and still hear new things and details. There are so many layers, so many things buried in the mix, I think it's absolutely fascinating, trying to figure out what the hell is actually exactly going on in all of these songs! It never gets old for me, it will probably always remain my most favourite record of all time for so many reasons.

This. So much this. After all these years I still hear new things. I love it. Final version of There Was A Time is such a masterpiece, for example. 

Though, I got to say I do love the demos too. Especially the bass-heavy versions. And IRS '99 has an amazing, untouchable vibe. 

I guess I love all those versions. I love the songs and it's cool to have different versions of them.

Edited January 25, 2021 by jekylhyde

[Gordon Comstock]

CD - Rough Mixes 1 version is my go to at this point, but the 'doubled guitars' version (2001) is good too.
Shackler's - Album version obviously, but if I make a CD playlist I replace this song with OMG.
Better - Probably the album version but the Antiquiet leak is good too.
The Blues - Definitely the RM1 version.
If The World - The album version, but the RM2 version has some cool differences
There Was A Time - Antiquiet leak, hands down. This song, CITR and The Blues suffered the most from overproduction.
Catcher - RM1 demo with Brian May. The album version is a muddy, cluttered mess in comparison.
Scraped - Album version, but if I'm making a playlist sometimes I replace this one with Going Down.
Rhiad - 'Old Josh Drums' from the New Brain Drums 2001 disc.
Sorry - Album.
IRS - The 2006 darknemus leak.
Madagascar - 'Original Brain Drums' from the 2001 disc, though I also like the RM1 version.
This I Love - The remix and the live versions from 2010 are all better than the album version.
Prostitute - Antiquiet leak.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Gordon Comstock

[izzyjim]

8 hours ago, Sledge said:

Original performance of the blues was my fav. Rest of Chinese was pretty good. 

OK NEVERMIND!

I was certain it was part of the song, until I got the 01.01.01, HOB recording (downloading a full show back in 2001 wasn't easy...)

[rumandraisin]

2 hours ago, izzyjim said:

OK NEVERMIND!

I was certain it was part of the song, until I got the 01.01.01, HOB recording (downloading a full show back in 2001 wasn't easy...)

I still hear it anytime I play the song. 

[Powerage5]

Chinese Democracy - Rough Mixes 1. I like the doubled vocals on the album version, and obviously Bucket's solo, but the sheer power of the RM1 version makes it hard to seriously consider anything else.
Shackler's Revenge - Can't really compare the Rough Mixes 2 version to the album version as they have almost nothing in common (And the RM2 version is instrumental).
Better - Album. The wall of sound when the guitars kick in at the start of the first verse is immense. None of the leaks had a mix that compared to the album version to me. 
The Blues/Street Of Dreams - Rough Mixes 1. For a long time the 2007 leak was my favorite, and I never really "got" the original version. But when The Village Sessions leaked, it really clicked with me. This song was the most overproduced by the time the album was released IMO.
If The World - Antiquiet. In reality there's not a huge difference between the three versions of the song out there, but I can't stand the FM radio effect on the album version.
There Was A Time - Album. When you listen to all the different versions of TWAT in chronological order, it's clear it just kept getting better the more work was put into it. 
Catcher In The Rye - Rough Mixes 1. It's got to be a Brian May version of the song. I would say the 2006 leak as I like it best with the piano-only intro, but the sound quality of RM1 makes it hard to not pick that. 
Scraped - Album, since it's all we've got.
Riad N' The Bedouins - Rough Mixes 1. It's so damn powerful. The drums and bass so high in the mix breathe so much more life into this song.
Sorry - Null vote. It's not fair to compare the album version with vocals to the instrumental on Rough Mixes 2. BUT...the chorus on the RM2 version hits like a ton of bricks. My ideal version is RM2 with vocals from the multitracks mixed in, but it's not fair to pick a fanmade mix. 
I.R.S. - Album. The drums on the album version sell it for me, that's really what it comes down to on this one. 
Madagascar - Dealer's choice. It's probably my least-listened-to CD song, I've just never been a fan of this song in a studio setting. Add in the fact that there's so many different mixes and versions and all the differences are fairly minute, I just don't feel well enough versed to pick a favorite. 
This I Love - Brain remix. It works surprisingly well with a hip hop beat, and it's some of my favorite Axl studio vocals. Easy choice.
Prostitute - Album. The Village Sessions versions don't do anything for me, the orchestration over the outro makes this song. I can't really recall any glaring differences between the Antiquiet version and the album version, so I'll pick the album between those two. 

[F*ck Fear]

Chinese Democracy - RM1

Shacklers Revenge - Album

Better - Album

The Blues - RM1

If The World - Album

There Was A Time - Album

Catcher In The Rye - RM1

Riad N' The Bedouins - Buckethead solo

Sorry - Album

I.R.S. - Album

Madagascar - RM1

This I Love - Remix (too bad a similar vocal take wasnt used for the album)

Prostitute - Album

Edited January 26, 2021 by F*ck Fear

[Sweersa]

I wish we could hear a more advanced demo of Shackler's with vocals and Bucket's solo. (A no Bumblefoot version, assuming a mix exists somewhere)

[rumandraisin]

Maybe the remix of TII wasn't new vocals or an alternative take but the vocals from the mid 90s recording attempt of the track... 

[rocknroll41]

I like the album versions of everything except Street Of Dreams (MSL Leak), If the World (Antiquiet Leak), There Was A Time (Antiquiet Leak) and Riad & The Bedouins (Rough Mixes 1).

Edited January 27, 2021 by rocknroll41

[rumandraisin]

You know what's always bugged me. The story about how much effort went in to getting the drum sound on CD, how every producer claimed they had nailed the Nirvana snare sound and axl wasn't happy with it, until someone went out and actually bought the record as instructed by Zutaut and finally they got it. All that effort only to then replace Brains hard double snare hit drum pattern with Frank's crappy bland drumming. 

[Beto 22]

All that includes Josh's drumming

[Sweersa]

19 minutes ago, Beto 22 said:

All that includes Josh's drumming

He was sick on Silkworms. Beautiful. 

On 1/28/2021 at 6:28 AM, rumandraisin said:

You know what's always bugged me. The story about how much effort went in to getting the drum sound on CD, how every producer claimed they had nailed the Nirvana snare sound and axl wasn't happy with it, until someone went out and actually bought the record as instructed by Zutaut and finally they got it. All that effort only to then replace Brains hard double snare hit drum pattern with Frank's crappy bland drumming. 

No kidding! Brain's work on Atlas is amazing too. I hate to think how much Frank will re-record. 

[Mendez]

 

 

Shacklers Revenge- The secret version that doesnt exist that features only Finck and Bucket on RHYTHM guitars w/ a bucket solo.

 

Prostitute - Rough Mixes 1. Guitars are mixed very odd. but the mix of the drums and bass together makes me ignore the guitar mix. Axl is in dire need of the autotune/pitchshift they applied on the album version. Missing Bucketheads leads.

 

Scraped - secret version that doesnt exist that features only Bucket and no Ay-o's

 

ITW- Antiquiet leak. Brains drums have more groove for 90%, but i prefer the album "nah nah nah nah" part with the thing that Frank needed to do to lead into that EQ effect. That section of the song is directionless on the leaks, but eith the EQ thing, they direction to a nice sounding, but useless part of the song.  Only bad thing about the album EQ is that you can't make out Buckets nylon string work at all at that section (talking about the part right befkre the 2nd verse)

 

Catcher, the 2005/6(?) leak of the 1999 version.

 

CD - Josh version that is on RM1 bc Josh, and no autotune on Axl, or double/triple tracked vocals. Although i liked the albun lyric change of "while their arms reach out for your help". I don't like how pitmans synth guitar is mixed almost equally as loud as the guitars are (chorus section). I like how pitman is drowned out on the verses.

 

 

Better - 2006 original leak. Mix is better, beidge is far hard hitting as it should be. No pitchshift on Fincks solo

 

Sorry - the secret version that doesnt exist that has only Bucket and Finck on rhythm/lead guitars. I prefer Brains drum parts on the album. His parts on the leak are cool, but since it was just a jam with no vocal guide, his drums only corresponded to the instrumental 

 

Madagascar - 🤷🏻‍♂️     The RM1 is mixed better, no autotune, no pitch correction of Buckets solo. The album versions solo section has a distortion pedal on Tommys bass which adds to that section a great deal (leak just has some sort of subass thing). Album versions strings in the chorus are cool, but that high string swell (probably Pitman/Reed) during the verses isn't adding much. The leads on the album versions of the chorus have better tone and melody  with the rerecorded ones (as opposed to the originals on RM1). There seems to be no version with a perfect mix of the wah rhythm guitar, and Fincks RHYTHM guitar on the chorus to hear both at good volume. I like Brains lead-in to the chorus more than Joshes. One of joshes I like more, but the others are too simple for what the song needed. I like the drum samples on the bridge better on the album version, but the drum samples for the verses I like better on RM1. Also, Bumblefoots unnecessary power chord rhythm on the album version is actually cool and works, even though it completely obscures both original rhythm guitars, but am unsure if I would like it in or not

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Mendez

[rumandraisin]

I hate how all of Bumbles work was just hard panned, lazily tacked on. Makes it easy to cut his parts though... 

As for Shacklers there must be a mix from 2002 or 2003 of just him and Robin and maybe Fortus. Bucket probably didn't record beyond 2002 but there's a slim chance he stayed recording until early 2003 but I doubt it. 

If The World, the drum programming on the locker discs version as mentioned above is very weird, no dynamics and no build up. Just an out of place couple of loops. 

Anything that says March 2000 on the discs would be Josh right? 

[rumandraisin]

Having just listened to all 3 versions of ITW, the album one probably is the best. The drums actually add something rather then the weird almost out of time drum machine. And I like the funky rhythm guitar that isn't on the locker disc version. Is that Robin playing that? 

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, rumandraisin said:

I hate how all of Bumbles work was just hard panned, lazily tacked on. Makes it easy to cut his parts though... 

As for Shacklers there must be a mix from 2002 or 2003 of just him and Robin and maybe Fortus. Bucket probably didn't record beyond 2002 but there's a slim chance he stayed recording until early 2003 but I doubt it. 

If The World, the drum programming on the locker discs version as mentioned above is very weird, no dynamics and no build up. Just an out of place couple of loops. 

Anything that says March 2000 on the discs would be Josh right? 

I actually like most of Ron's contributions, but they do feel a bit tacked on after the fact. I don't know how they could've changed that though?

[slash23579]

I mentioned this in the general musing thread but I'll mention it here too, I recently mixed the drum and bass track from the album version of Better onto the Bumblefoot's acoustic version that got leaked forever ago, and I think it ended up being my favorite version of the song. The drums and bass keep the song heavy, which sounds great with the acoustic guitars and the lack of overproduction. Not sure if I'm allowed to post it anywhere so I won't, but I'd definitely recommend trying it out yourself if you can

[rumandraisin]

I'm really leaning towards the 2007 mix of IRS atm. The antiquiet one feels a bit weak? I like the fatter sounding Josh drums one but the guitars are a bit too restrained, in the 2007 one they're nice and sleazy

1 hour ago, Towelie said:

I actually like most of Ron's contributions, but they do feel a bit tacked on after the fact. I don't know how they could've changed that though?

Maybe not added a 5th guitarist to the mix... 

[rumandraisin]

I don't mind Frank's drumming I just think rerecording the drums with him was unnecessary. Again Bumble really didn't add much in my opinion, instead just cluttering songs that were already full to the brim. 

[Sweersa]

7 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Having just listened to all 3 versions of ITW, the album one probably is the best. The drums actually add something rather then the weird almost out of time drum machine. And I like the funky rhythm guitar that isn't on the locker disc version. Is that Robin playing that? 

I too prefer the album version of this song. The Village version is a close 2nd. I think Axl repeats a line on the Village version, but in the Village version I hate that high pitch sound that occurs needlessly through a lot of the song. I'm not sure what it is, but it was probably from Pitman. It's almost uncomfortably pitched. 

[Sweersa]

I forgot to add-- I really, really hope a more advanced demo of Shackler's Revenge leaks. Something between the early instrumental that came with the Village leaks and the album version. One with Axl's vocals, and Bucket's solo. You can barely make out parts of Bucket's solo in one of the Rockband multitracks, and it's not the solo he plays in the early instrumental. 

Maybe one day we will get a super deluxe CD with all of these extras, but I doubt that will happen. (Would that even be possible? I assume the band keeps various mixes for archival purposes for reference, if anything that could be final mixed and mastered for an eventual release) A leak would be more likely.