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35 minutes ago, GNRfanx6 said:

I was listening to Oh My God again and I couldn't help but think about the direction of the band Axl had in mind. I love all eras of GNR and I do really like oh my God. When I stop and think about the content we could have gotten from Axl in the late 90s still in his prime boggles my mind. I know the turn to more industrial rock sound isn't everyone's cup of tea but I am I fan of almost every genre of music. Not just hard rock. So the song is such an interesting look into where Axl was musically at the time. The dude never stopped evolving. Estranged sounds nothing like anything from appetite and I say thank God. Axl started to get into NIN and other electronic bands in the 90s and the band was changing with he times. I don't see this as a bad thing at all. I would love to look back and be like oh shit remember 80s GNR... Remember late 90s GNR when Axl was screaming on industrial tracks... Remember in 2006 when he caught his second wind and started blowing everyone's mind again? Bands having different eras is a good thing. I'm sad we might never hear what he was working on in all these different state of minds he was in. His creativity really is a blessing and curse. 

 

https://youtu.be/DzEQNub33w4

I've stated this before in other threads. My opinion is that Axl should have explored different genres as a solo artist and not under the GNR name. When you think about GNR, you associate them with a hard rock sound. Right from the get go, they were known as the next Rolling Stones/Aerosmith type of band. It's ok to make  one or two songs from another genre. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths.  GNR should have gone on hiatus while other members of the band did their own thing for awhile. 

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32 minutes ago, Draguns said:

I've stated this before in other threads. My opinion is that Axl should have explored different genres as a solo artist and not under the GNR name. When you think about GNR, you associate them with a hard rock sound. Right from the get go, they were known as the next Rolling Stones/Aerosmith type of band. It's ok to make  one or two songs from another genre. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths.  GNR should have gone on hiatus while other members of the band did their own thing for awhile. 

I'm completely agree with that sentiment. Although I don't think they would dilute their brand. They would have had fans from every single Era. Just like how I would go get a beer during scom someone else would go piss while oh my God played. I just really hate how much material is sitting in some vault somewhere lol 

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I think that just because Axl wanted to try new things musically, doesn't mean he wanted to do it without Slash and Duff. At least it's possible he appreciated their chemistry and just like they managed to accomplish something like NR and Estranged, maybe Axl wanted to keep Gn'R the vehicle of his ambitions. Besides, I think they were running on fumes during the making of UYI anyway. They were rich and famous and perhaps what they wanted was different now.

maybe if they just took a break it would have helped when it came to their relationship as people but I don't know if a solo album is what Axl had in mind.

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51 minutes ago, Draguns said:

I've stated this before in other threads. My opinion is that Axl should have explored different genres as a solo artist and not under the GNR name. When you think about GNR, you associate them with a hard rock sound. Right from the get go, they were known as the next Rolling Stones/Aerosmith type of band. It's ok to make  one or two songs from another genre. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths.  GNR should have gone on hiatus while other members of the band did their own thing for awhile. 

Yeah, totally agree with everything you said here.  I think that overall change is nothing to scoff at, but with Axl the change seemed forced.  Like, he lost the members of the band that helped define the sound of the band and he needed to do something different to compensate - which IMO is pretty much what happened lol

I personally don't care about if Chinese was "real Guns" or not, but I do personally think that Axl could have benefited from doing it under a new band name or solo act, getting all his new styles out there through that, and getting with Slash, Izzy, etc. for the Guns stuff that retained the sonic identity everyone associated with the band

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He was trend chasing and sadly that is a very bad look for a guy who was once the world's biggest rock star.

That was the beginning of a long, dark period for the band.

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4 hours ago, GNRfanx6 said:

I was listening to Oh My God again and I couldn't help but think about the direction of the band Axl had in mind. I love all eras of GNR and I do really like oh my God. When I stop and think about the content we could have gotten from Axl in the late 90s still in his prime boggles my mind. I know the turn to more industrial rock sound isn't everyone's cup of tea but I am I fan of almost every genre of music. Not just hard rock. So the song is such an interesting look into where Axl was musically at the time. The dude never stopped evolving. Estranged sounds nothing like anything from appetite and I say thank God. Axl started to get into NIN and other electronic bands in the 90s and the band was changing with he times. I don't see this as a bad thing at all. I would love to look back and be like oh shit remember 80s GNR... Remember late 90s GNR when Axl was screaming on industrial tracks... Remember in 2006 when he caught his second wind and started blowing everyone's mind again? Bands having different eras is a good thing. I'm sad we might never hear what he was working on in all these different state of minds he was in. His creativity really is a blessing and curse. 

 

https://youtu.be/DzEQNub33w4

It took me long time to appreciate this track but it’s one of favs. Lyrically it’s one of his finest. If Axl had worked on this song and not filtered his voice it could have have been one of the stronger tracks of CD. I can’t believe this song existed with Duff and Matt in the band. 

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6 hours ago, Draguns said:

I've stated this before in other threads. My opinion is that Axl should have explored different genres as a solo artist and not under the GNR name. When you think about GNR, you associate them with a hard rock sound. Right from the get go, they were known as the next Rolling Stones/Aerosmith type of band. It's ok to make  one or two songs from another genre. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths.  GNR should have gone on hiatus while other members of the band did their own thing for awhile. 

In the fans mind gnr were a straight forward rock band. From the moment UYI came out it should have been clear that they definitely weren't going to be making songs that sounded like Aerosmith etc forever. 

The only reason I say he should have went solo is because of the type of fans that refuse to allow bands to change directions.

You dilute your brand and band by saying "oh our fans like this, so we can't do that". Aren't there enough bands playing the game? I much rather listening to a band that's adventurous (on record) and not serving up the same meal each time.

I fully defend bands like gnr and Metallica that have taking musical detours. And of course Metallica did their detour without line up changes, we know this! But I'd wager the Slash / Axl follow up to UYI  would have been fairly different in places to UYI and AFD too.

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4 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

It took me long time to appreciate this track but it’s one of favs. Lyrically it’s one of his finest. If Axl had worked on this song and not filtered his voice it could have have been one of the stronger tracks of CD. I can’t believe this song existed with Duff and Matt in the band. 

Well, however, "Former member Duff McKagan as well as former employee Matt Sorum failed to see its potential and showed no interest in exploring, let alone recording the piece. When the demos were played for the new band, Josh, Tommy and Robin were as they say 'all over it.'" :) 

I've always liked the song. Still hope to hear it in some newer version again. 

Edited by jamillos
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8 hours ago, Draguns said:

I've stated this before in other threads. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths. 

Surely there's a difference between Dancing in the Street and Young American, no? How are you so sure they'd have been on the wrong side of it? 

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Could have been huge if CD was released in late 90s/early 2000s. But, by 2008, industrial wasn't a thing anymore and it souded dated already on the day of it's release.

For those who followed the evolution of some tracks, there was a clear de-industrialization to go back to a more straight foward rock sound. I particullary highlight the drums on the track Chinese Democracy. By 2000, it was very NIN and it seemed to change in the last minute before CD release.

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:13 AM, ObsessionofVanity said:

Surely there's a difference between Dancing in the Street and Young American, no? How are you so sure they'd have been on the wrong side of it? 

It's the way that band was built. AFD5 is a showcase of 5 guys with talent coming together to create one of the best debut albums of all time. You can't just magically change the sound of a band and its brand with one member. 

Also when you play in arena that is about to be mothballed and it's only half filled then you know it was the wrong decision. 

Edited by Draguns
typo
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On 2/14/2021 at 12:54 AM, Tom2112 said:

In the fans mind gnr were a straight forward rock band. From the moment UYI came out it should have been clear that they definitely weren't going to be making songs that sounded like Aerosmith etc forever. 

The only reason I say he should have went solo is because of the type of fans that refuse to allow bands to change directions.

You dilute your brand and band by saying "oh our fans like this, so we can't do that". Aren't there enough bands playing the game? I much rather listening to a band that's adventurous (on record) and not serving up the same meal each time.

I fully defend bands like gnr and Metallica that have taking musical detours. And of course Metallica did their detour without line up changes, we know this! But I'd wager the Slash / Axl follow up to UYI  would have been fairly different in places to UYI and AFD too.

You are forgetting that some of the tracks were  worked on by the AFD5 for UYI. There was a continuation of the band. With CD, that didn't happen. You can't compare Metallica's situation to GNR. Metallica had its core members as you stated. Axl was trying to completely change the band's sound without others who brought GNR to the table.  That just doesn't happen. 

Axl has a big enough name where he could have been successful to do his own thing. That would have been the best business and emotional decision.  

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48 minutes ago, Draguns said:

You are forgetting that some of the tracks were  worked on by the AFD5 for UYI. There was a continuation of the band. With CD, that didn't happen. You can't compare Metallica's situation to GNR. Metallica had its core members as you stated. Axl was trying to completely change the band's sound without others who brought GNR to the table.  That just doesn't happen. 

Axl has a big enough name where he could have been successful to do his own thing. That would have been the best business and emotional decision.  

It's true that some songs were written by the afd band, but there's also songs that were a huge leap like Estranged or even The Garden.

I think we mostly agree about Axl using his name for the album, history would be kinder to him. 

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On 2/14/2021 at 5:54 AM, Tom2112 said:

In the fans mind gnr were a straight forward rock band. From the moment UYI came out it should have been clear that they definitely weren't going to be making songs that sounded like Aerosmith etc forever. 

The only reason I say he should have went solo is because of the type of fans that refuse to allow bands to change directions.

You dilute your brand and band by saying "oh our fans like this, so we can't do that". Aren't there enough bands playing the game? I much rather listening to a band that's adventurous (on record) and not serving up the same meal each time.

I fully defend bands like gnr and Metallica that have taking musical detours. And of course Metallica did their detour without line up changes, we know this! But I'd wager the Slash / Axl follow up to UYI  would have been fairly different in places to UYI and AFD too.

I couldn't agree more with this. 

That's one of the reasons I think it's so sad that they've ended up cranking out the 'nostalgic rock' to an audience of people who want no evolution in their music whatsoever and seem happy to pretend it's the 80s for the rest of their lives. 

One of the things for me that makes GNR so much more than their peers are the things you mention above. Sadly though, most people don't actually want change or development. This seems particularly true with rock music fans, and older fans in general. 

You even see it on here a lot- the 'what's the point in doing anything new, they'll never make an album as good as AFD' and 'they just need to make some more songs that sound like they used to and show the world rock and roll isn't dead' type posts. 

What's SO infuriating is that it's so clear they're bored of these old songs when they play them, and we know how many things and ideas there are unreleased that could indeed push their sound on. 

 

Edited by allwaystired
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On 2/13/2021 at 10:12 PM, The Holographic Universe said:

It took me long time to appreciate this track but it’s one of favs. Lyrically it’s one of his finest. If Axl had worked on this song and not filtered his voice it could have have been one of the stronger tracks of CD. I can’t believe this song existed with Duff and Matt in the band. 

It took me a long time to appreciate this track too.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and being very confused.  I still bought the EOD soundtrack to have it. I still wasn't a fan of it when Axl played it in the early 2000's.  It has only been the last 5 years that I liked it.  

The only thing I disagree with you on is the lyrics.  The end of the song is brilliant, the "tides out on the oceans" part. But I STILL can't get past the "crawl through your veins like millions of spiders". Trying to rhyme liars with spiders... c'mon Axl. 

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I remember it took me a few listens just to get it all those 20 years ago but now it's a favorite. Axl's delivery is the highlight for me but I also liked how he blended paranoia and disco.

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On 2/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, Draguns said:

I've stated this before in other threads. My opinion is that Axl should have explored different genres as a solo artist and not under the GNR name. When you think about GNR, you associate them with a hard rock sound. Right from the get go, they were known as the next Rolling Stones/Aerosmith type of band. It's ok to make  one or two songs from another genre. However, changing the sound of the band to try to fit with the times isn't good. You dilute your brand and you don't play to your strengths.  GNR should have gone on hiatus while other members of the band did their own thing for awhile. 

Completely agree - I think CD wouldn't have been such a burden for Axl, it would have been released more easily, and people would have been more generous with it. We would probably have more of that material officially released. Maybe even a reunion sooner and maybe even Axl's solo project happening at the same time as the reunion.

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The late 90’s were difficult for Metallica & AC/DC as they tried to find their feet post grunge...however it all came good, and Metallica’s output especially during that time gets looked back upon pretty favourably.

If Axl had just ripped the band aid off in 2000 I think he’d of faired better. The delay hindered things.

That said I love Chinese and it has definitely  had a resurgence due to the not in this lifetime tour. 
 

Fingers crossed the “next chapter” blows minds. 👍

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