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GNR issue Press Release: Fernando Lebeis released from management duties


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The 'racism/xenophobia' thing is a ridiculous thing to say to people as it's trying to start a fire that really, really doesn't exist here. 

One day a year one can dream.

I am European, I am not xenophobic, I like people from Brasil but I don t like Fernando!!  I wouldnt like him if he was Austrian, Japanese,  New Zealand, French, Haiti,  from uruguay or from any co

As my brother would say, no lives matter.

The world is unfair. Do what you can, with what you have.

As I've said before, this is a Guns N' Fuckin' Roses forum. :D The name alone offends some.

A photo of a gun is enough to make some, so called men uncomfortable.

Welcome to the jungle! 

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What on earth happened there! :(

1 hour ago, NTONIUS said:

Wowwww. Just read through  this lol.  I'm not from the GenZ cancel culture and I can handle a joke..  at the same time for this guy to come on here and fukn throw shit at everyone saying "If he were AmeRicAn"  

 

Listen up @Legendador

I don't give a flying fuck if you are purple and pink stripe alien with 3 fuckn heads, if your good at what you do than great. And if not then get the fuck out. As for Fernando. He has shown many times through his ACTIONS, not his CULTURAL BACKGROUND, that he is SHIT AT HIS JOB. For instance, fake leads to fans via reddit and so on. That in itself is enough to show the immaturity, unprofessionalism and etc.

 

So give it a fukn rest and throw your judgmental self righteousness in the fucking garbage cus no one needs that shit here. Go on insta if you wanna cry about nothingness and join in on ridiculous cancel culture which is both hypocritical and illogical.

 

By the way I am Canadian and from Toronto so before you throw accusations that I'm a red neck you can.... you know  what to do.

Ciao.

Gosh why so angry and insulting mate! 

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15 minutes ago, DurhamGirl said:

What on earth happened there! :(

Gosh why so angry and insulting mate! 

I think I have been exposed to alot of this racism finger pointing lately. I think maybe a cpl less "fucks" could have smoothed that over a bit lol. But my point remains.

 

It's not about who or what you are, it's what you do that makes you who you are. 

I basically said that with shit load of attitude. Sorry if it offends some, but the message is clear and there is no room for judging others anywhere and when I saw it I tweaked.

 

Cheers and peace. Even to the purple pink 3 eyed fkn alien lol

 

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On 4/1/2021 at 4:20 PM, Legendador said:

that's something that hurts us as Brazilians (for example).
 

Although I don't understand any of the hatred towards Fenando, speakk for yourself... As a Brazilian I don't feel hurt by any of the things said against Fernando... 

Fernando is responsible for bad decisions as much as any A-List Managers GNR had in the past... The problem with Guns Management is one and always has been... Axl

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GNR are done, the sooner you grasp - the better.

Covid has onc and for all killed that endless bublegum called NITL.

Axl 's vocal cords will be shut after a few year hiatus and that is pretty much it, done/finito/basta/ende/fini.thing positively, we will always have Saskatoon '93, Paris '92, Chicago '92, Rio '91, BA '93. and we will be spared of Frank playing under GNR moniker.

Iz there a chance to see them playing again?

Maybe. if Iz/Gilby step in and sing 14 Years, DTTJ, Don't cry, Its so easy...Will it be same, hell no.  Probably small venue sized gigs, but it will be as close as possible. Slash can't sing, Duff can give a handbut not much, Matt and Steve can back up.   They sure won't hire another singer to fill in for Axl, although that is exactly what Axl did for 15 years.

it is either that or - done.

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2 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

GNR are done, the sooner you grasp - the better.

Covid has onc and for all killed that endless bublegum called NITL.

Axl 's vocal cords will be shut after a few year hiatus and that is pretty much it, done/finito/basta/ende/fini.thing positively, we will always have Saskatoon '93, Paris '92, Chicago '92, Rio '91, BA '93. and we will be spared of Frank playing under GNR moniker.

Iz there a chance to see them playing again?

Maybe. if Iz/Gilby step in and sing 14 Years, DTTJ, Don't cry, Its so easy...Will it be same, hell no.  Probably small venue sized gigs, but it will be as close as possible. Slash can't sing, Duff can give a handbut not much, Matt and Steve can back up.   They sure won't hire another singer to fill in for Axl, although that is exactly what Axl did for 15 years.

it is either that or - done.

I could care less if they ever play another show again. Axl obviously has no time to invest in vocal training, practicing, rehearsals  etc. He has no respect for the art of singing. He has no respect for fans. Watching his abysmal, loathsome performances highlights these facts. I just want unreleased music. What’s the point of continuing the shit-show so we can pick through the lousy performances to find the songs that sound okay, here and there?

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On 4/3/2021 at 5:33 PM, Frankfurt93 said:

GNR are done, the sooner you grasp - the better.

Covid has onc and for all killed that endless bublegum called NITL.

Axl 's vocal cords will be shut after a few year hiatus and that is pretty much it, done/finito/basta/ende/fini.thing positively, we will always have Saskatoon '93, Paris '92, Chicago '92, Rio '91, BA '93. and we will be spared of Frank playing under GNR moniker.

Iz there a chance to see them playing again?

Maybe. if Iz/Gilby step in and sing 14 Years, DTTJ, Don't cry, Its so easy...Will it be same, hell no.  Probably small venue sized gigs, but it will be as close as possible. Slash can't sing, Duff can give a handbut not much, Matt and Steve can back up.   They sure won't hire another singer to fill in for Axl, although that is exactly what Axl did for 15 years.

it is either that or - done.

i think you might be right

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Also whoever asked who managed beyonce/destiny's child that was her father and also by some bloke called erm Merck Mercuriadis.

The thing is if you keep changing the manager and there isn't really a change it might be time to look at the team.

TB/Fernando seem to be operating on a different planet but I'm not sure any traditional management here would really help? Lets be honest if I'm going to manage GnR now - the boats kinda been missed its all about legacy touring for the forseeable future. You can play shows that sell out (and at the highest ticket prices i've seen outside of the Stones and Fleetwood Mac) require 0 promotion, 0 interviews and to be honest little in the way of rehearsal what is the commercial point of a new album?

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This thread is something else. Fernando and Beta may very well be the nicest people in the world and it's nice that they've been a support system for Axl, but that doesn't make them qualified to run a rock band, of which the "management" has been laughable at best.

I have a friend who is super nice and has been a support to me over the years, but I'm not going to hire him as my accountant or something seeing as he would be extremely unqualified for such a position.

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What school do rock managers typically go to to get the required skills they need to manage rock bands? I would think that the majority of rock managers out there haven't got a formal education in "rock band management" but have ended up in their positions more or less through happenstance after being involved in the music business for a while. This is exactly how it happened with Team Brazil, Beta started out as Axl's PA and gradually got involved in more and more aspects of band business, including negotiations and contract management. I don't think this is very different to many other rock band managers. Fernando similarly. Then you might say they aren't experienced enough to have this position - to manage a band of Guns N' Roses' stature. Well, they have been doing this, formally or informally, since the 1990s now (in Beta's case, at least). More than 20 years. That must account for something, surely? Additionally, they have something no other management has managed to have: a good rapport with Axl which is crucial for continuity in the job. Based on this, I find it unfair to claim they don't have the skills required to be rock managers. at least not for GN'R. They might not be the most connected managers (who knows), or the most brilliant in negotiations (who knows?), or the very best at organizing tours (who knows?) - but their relationship with Axl must compensate for any such possible flaws to a large extent.

Then you might argue that the proof is in the pudding that they are terrible at what they do, that the evidence is before our very eyes! Is it? Apart from poor communication it seems the band is doing okay to me. Tours come and go. No big scandal. Slash and Duff got back into the band. I would have preferred more new music, different setlists, less merch, etc etc, but this is likely not the fault of Team Brazil. Let's not forget that the job of the band's management is to execute on their clients' plans and strategies, and I think this is especially the case with Guns N' Roses which is basically Axl who likely makes the decisions and tells TB to carry them out. We cannot really blame TB for the direction the band is heading in, or whatever else we feel is wrong. Except, of course, for the poor communication, unless Axl has told them to act that way :D

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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

What school do rock managers typically go to to get the required skills they need to manage rock bands? I would think that the majority of rock managers out there haven't got a formal education in "rock band management" but have ended up in their positions more or less through happenstance after being involved in the music business for a while. This is exactly how it happened with Team Brazil, Beta started out as Axl's PA and gradually got involved in more and more aspects of band business, including negotiations and contract management. I don't think this is very different to many other rock band managers. Fernando similarly. Then you might say they aren't experienced enough to have this position - to manage a band of Guns N' Roses' stature. Well, they have been doing this, formally or informally, since the 1990s now (in Beta's case, at least). More than 20 years. That must account for something, surely? Additionally, they have something no other management has managed to have: a good rapport with Axl which is crucial for continuity in the job. Based on this, I find it unfair to claim they don't have the skills required to be rock managers. at least not for GN'R. They might not be the most connected managers (who knows), or the most brilliant in negotiations (who knows?), or the very best at organizing tours (who knows?) - but their relationship with Axl must compensate for any such possible flaws to a large extent.

Then you might argue that the proof is in the pudding that they are terrible at what they do, that the evidence is before our very eyes! Is it? Apart from poor communication it seems the band is doing okay to me. Tours come and go. No big scandal. Slash and Duff got back into the band. I would have preferred more new music, different setlists, less merch, etc etc, but this is likely not the fault of Team Brazil. Let's not forget that the job of the band's management is to execute on their clients' plans and strategies, and I think this is especially the case with Guns N' Roses which is basically Axl who likely makes the decisions and tells TB to carry them out. We cannot really blame TB for the direction the band is heading in, or whatever else we feel is wrong. Except, of course, for the poor communication, unless Axl has told them to act that way :D

This hasn't anything to do with being experienced or not or having some kind of education on that matter. It's just about the fact that Fernandon't sucks and is unqualified to do the job. He could go on and get a masters degree in management. His communication skills and how to operate managing a big rock band will always suck. It's just part of his personality and who he is. 

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50 minutes ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

This hasn't anything to do with being experienced or not or having some kind of education on that matter. It's just about the fact that Fernandon't sucks and is unqualified to do the job. He could go on and get a masters degree in management. His communication skills and how to operate managing a big rock band will always suck. It's just part of his personality and who he is. 

Apart from the poor communication, how can you tell Fernando is not managing Guns N' Roses exactly as directed by Axl? 

Giving an assessment to how he operates as a manager must go beyond how he treats us and be based on to what extent he fulfills his managerial duties as directed by Axl, which mostly is about helping Axl to realize whatever plans he has for the band. He could be really good at that and still act unprofessional in his communication with portions of the hardcore fans. We cannot just focus on the fact that he dislikes us and writes like an emotional kid on Reddit, when giving a verdict. And looking at how the band has operated under TB's management, things are a lot more stable now than in the years before they took over as managers. Whether that is TB's credit or a reflection of Axl maturing is impossible to answer, but I find little that suggests Team Brazil are as terrible as people here would have it. You might not like the merch (I certainly don't), you might not like the lack of new music (I certainly don't), etc etc, but I doubt these are decisions made solely by Team Brazil. 

Lastly, regarding the poor communication. No excuses to Fernando as a professional manager but we cannot look at this outside of the context of all the back and forth that has been going between parts of the fanbase and Fernando and the Lebeis family for many, many years. It's been ugly and it is understandable that he is a bit edgy towards us, although as a professional manager he should do better. He might know this himself but not consider being dismissive towards a marginal fraction of the band's fans a great lapse of his duties. Hopefully he will realize that it still isn't good enough as he gets older/more experienced.

 

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9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Apart from the poor communication, how can you tell Fernando is not managing Guns N' Roses exactly as directed by Axl? 

Giving an assessment to how he operates as a manager must go beyond how he treats us and be based on to what extent he fulfills his managerial duties as directed by Axl, which mostly is about helping Axl to realize whatever plans he has for the band. He could be really good at that and still act unprofessional in his communication with portions of the hardcore fans. We cannot just focus on the fact that he dislikes us and writes like an emotional kid on Reddit, when giving a verdict. And looking at how the band has operated under TB's management, things are a lot more stable now than in the years before they took over as managers. Whether that is TB's credit or a reflection of Axl maturing is impossible to answer, but I find little that suggests Team Brazil are as terrible as people here would have it. You might not like the merch (I certainly don't), you might not like the lack of new music (I certainly don't), etc etc, but I doubt these are decisions made solely by Team Brazil. 

Lastly, regarding the poor communication. No excuses to Fernando as a professional manager but we cannot look at this outside of the context of all the back and forth that has been going between parts of the fanbase and Fernando and the Lebeis family for many, many years. It's been ugly and it is understandable that he is a bit edgy towards us, although as a professional manager he should do better. He might know this himself but not consider being dismissive towards a marginal fraction of the band's fans a great lapse of his duties. Hopefully he will realize that it still isn't good enough as he gets older/more experienced.

 

In the end, Fernanshit is, as a manager, responsible for most things. The poor ticket sales, poor advertisement, the horrible selects, abysmal merch, still no album. I know, Axl is the one calling the shots, but if a manager can't at least do one thing good, then he just failed. And since Fernando doesnt have the courtesy to quit his job like the other managers before him, he's just there for the paycheck and not to manage GNR properly. 

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6 minutes ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

In the end, Fernanshit is, as a manager, responsible for most things. The poor ticket sales, poor advertisement, the horrible selects, abysmal merch, still no album. I know, Axl is the one calling the shots, but if a manager can't at least do one thing good, then he just failed. And since Fernando doesnt have the courtesy to quit his job like the other managers before him, he's just there for the paycheck and not to manage GNR properly. 

I disagree with this. You even say it yourself: Axl calls the shot. Make up your mind, who is to blame, the one calling the shots or the one tasked to do whatever the former says?

To be a bit more specific: 

- Poor ticket sales is only a problem if the band loses money from the touring. If they do indeed lose money, then whoever detailed the tour and decided on venues and pricing is to blame. If the manager is charged to oversee this, then yes, the manager must take responsibility for that. But we don't know that, do we? We don't know if they lose money on touring and who has been charged to plan the tours nor approve of said plans. Most likely Axl ultimately approves the plans of the team that plans the tours. We don't know to what extent TB is involved in this, most likely they use some outside counsel. Impossible to say.

- Poor advertisement. I have no idea whether advertisements are poor. I kind of like the effort they make with the lithos. Anyway, if the band spend too little resources on ads or the ad campaigns are poor, that could be management's fault for approving the campaigns detailed by ad agencies, or Axl's for approving them - whoever does it. What I very much doubt, is that TB is free to approve ad campaigns without Axl's approval and acknowledgement. And if Axl didn't like it and said, "nah, do better", or "nah, spend more money on this" then the ads would get better. Again, rock managers are supposed to do as ordered by the client, and while this is often not the case when the band is immature and the manager is experienced, I think it is very safe to say this is not the case with Guns N' Roses.

- Horrible selects. Are they? We would certainly have chosen better selects but I doubt us hardcore fans are the target audience here. We need to know what the purpose for the selects are and their effects to say whether they work as intended or not. I suppose it is just meant as low-budget videos intended to cause general excitement on social media, and as far as I know, they work as intended. But I could be wrong. Still, I am confident Axl wouldn't allow them to be released if he wasn't okay with them. 

- Abysmal merch. I highly doubt managers of any rock band is allowed to come up with and release merch without their clients acknowledgment and approval :D

- Still no album. Really, that is TB's fault and not Axl's?

This all goes back to what I said before: We cannot asses the performance of a rock band manager without knowing to what extent they do as directed by their clients. And this is a big unknown to us. Are they empowered to make decisions alone or is everything approved by Axl? To what extent does Axl micromanage the work they do? Unknown, unknown, unknown. Personally, I don't see any reason to not blame Axl for everything. Seems to me people don't want to put the blame where it should be put and instead find it easier to blame it all on Team Brazil. After all, Fernando can be an asshole on social media and Beta used to be a nanny. Whether this is out of some weird loyalty to Axl, a misunderstanding of the roles and responsibilities involved, or something else, is beyond me. 

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I disagree with this. You even say it yourself: Axl calls the shot. Make up your mind, who is to blame, the one calling the shots or the one tasked to do whatever the former says?

To be a bit more specific: 

- Poor ticket sales is only a problem if the band loses money from the touring. If they do indeed lose money, then whoever detailed the tour and decided on venues and pricing is to blame. If the manager is charged to oversee this, then yes, the manager must take responsibility for that. But we don't know that, do we? We don't know if they lose money on touring and who has been charged to plan the tours nor approve of said plans. Most likely Axl ultimately approves the plans of the team that plans the tours. We don't know to what extent TB is involved in this, most likely they use some outside counsel. Impossible to say.

- Poor advertisement. I have no idea whether advertisements are poor. I kind of like the effort they make with the lithos. Anyway, if the band spend too little resources on ads or the ad campaigns are poor, that could be management's fault for approving the campaigns detailed by ad agencies, or Axl's for approving them - whoever does it. What I very much doubt, is that TB is free to approve ad campaigns without Axl's approval and acknowledgement. And if Axl didn't like it and said, "nah, do better", or "nah, spend more money on this" then the ads would get better. Again, rock managers are supposed to do as ordered by the client, and while this is often not the case when the band is immature and the manager is experienced, I think it is very safe to say this is not the case with Guns N' Roses.

- Horrible selects. Are they? We would certainly have chosen better selects but I doubt us hardcore fans are the target audience here. We need to know what the purpose for the selects are and their effects to say whether they work as intended or not. I suppose it is just meant as low-budget videos intended to cause general excitement on social media, and as far as I know, they work as intended. But I could be wrong. Still, I am confident Axl wouldn't allow them to be released if he wasn't okay with them. 

- Abysmal merch. I highly doubt managers of any rock band is allowed to come up with and release merch without their clients acknowledgment and approval :D

- Still no album. Really, that is TB's fault and not Axl's?

This all goes back to what I said before: We cannot asses the performance of a rock band manager without knowing to what extent they do as directed by their clients. And this is a big unknown to us. Are they empowered to make decisions alone or is everything approved by Axl? To what extent does Axl micromanage the work they do? Unknown, unknown, unknown. Personally, I don't see any reason to not blame Axl for everything. Seems to me people don't want to put the blame where it should be put and instead find it easier to blame it all on Team Brazil. After all, Fernando can be an asshole on social media and Beta used to be a nanny. Whether this is out of some weird loyalty to Axl, a misunderstanding of the roles and responsibilities involved, or something else, is beyond me. 

Well, said. They say the fish rots from the head. And the head is Axl. Always been. Also the first 2 points really don't have anything to do with management. Booking a tour, selling tickets and advertizing the concerts is Live Nation's and the local concert promoter's job. Not management of the band. And most likely GNR get their fee either way and won't lose any money if ticket sales suck.

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4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I disagree with this. You even say it yourself: Axl calls the shot. Make up your mind, who is to blame, the one calling the shots or the one tasked to do whatever the former says?

To be a bit more specific: 

- Poor ticket sales is only a problem if the band loses money from the touring. If they do indeed lose money, then whoever detailed the tour and decided on venues and pricing is to blame. If the manager is charged to oversee this, then yes, the manager must take responsibility for that. But we don't know that, do we? We don't know if they lose money on touring and who has been charged to plan the tours nor approve of said plans. Most likely Axl ultimately approves the plans of the team that plans the tours. We don't know to what extent TB is involved in this, most likely they use some outside counsel. Impossible to say.

- Poor advertisement. I have no idea whether advertisements are poor. I kind of like the effort they make with the lithos. Anyway, if the band spend too little resources on ads or the ad campaigns are poor, that could be management's fault for approving the campaigns detailed by ad agencies, or Axl's for approving them - whoever does it. What I very much doubt, is that TB is free to approve ad campaigns without Axl's approval and acknowledgement. And if Axl didn't like it and said, "nah, do better", or "nah, spend more money on this" then the ads would get better. Again, rock managers are supposed to do as ordered by the client, and while this is often not the case when the band is immature and the manager is experienced, I think it is very safe to say this is not the case with Guns N' Roses.

- Horrible selects. Are they? We would certainly have chosen better selects but I doubt us hardcore fans are the target audience here. We need to know what the purpose for the selects are and their effects to say whether they work as intended or not. I suppose it is just meant as low-budget videos intended to cause general excitement on social media, and as far as I know, they work as intended. But I could be wrong. Still, I am confident Axl wouldn't allow them to be released if he wasn't okay with them. 

- Abysmal merch. I highly doubt managers of any rock band is allowed to come up with and release merch without their clients acknowledgment and approval :D

- Still no album. Really, that is TB's fault and not Axl's?

This all goes back to what I said before: We cannot asses the performance of a rock band manager without knowing to what extent they do as directed by their clients. And this is a big unknown to us. Are they empowered to make decisions alone or is everything approved by Axl? To what extent does Axl micromanage the work they do? Unknown, unknown, unknown. Personally, I don't see any reason to not blame Axl for everything. Seems to me people don't want to put the blame where it should be put and instead find it easier to blame it all on Team Brazil. After all, Fernando can be an asshole on social media and Beta used to be a nanny. Whether this is out of some weird loyalty to Axl, a misunderstanding of the roles and responsibilities involved, or something else, is beyond me. 

in football or in this case music the manager is responsible for the players and or bandmates to perform they are hired because of a certain track record and ability to get the best of their people -- in this case Axl ammassed such control over the band that he alone can just be indifferent to incompetent while fludging along with the right type of negative yes person such as fer boy 

he has it exactly how he has always wanted it and it is becoming abundantly clear to all casual observers that it's backfired and hasn't been good for him or anyone around him

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5 hours ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

In the end, Fernanshit is, as a manager, responsible for most things. The poor ticket sales, poor advertisement, the horrible selects, abysmal merch, still no album. I know, Axl is the one calling the shots, but if a manager can't at least do one thing good, then he just failed. And since Fernando doesnt have the courtesy to quit his job like the other managers before him, he's just there for the paycheck and not to manage GNR properly. 

The previous managers didn't quit. Axl fired them.

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On 4/2/2021 at 6:36 AM, Legendador said:

Sorry guys, if anybody felt offended or felt that I called anybody a racist, it wasn't my intention. I didn't! I was just trying to point out a fact that sometimes some people goes too hard and to far on Fernando and to me as a Brazilian it is offensive as hell. It could be nice to exercise to be in someone's shoes, But one can only hope.

People don’t dislike Fernando because where is from, they dislike him because he’s an idiot. 

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Ultimately as unhappy as I am with TB when it comes to how they approach GNR's business, I think that Axl is the one the buck gets passed off to.  Because at the end of the day, managers are hired by the band, and Axl is definitely the one calling the big shots for the band - otherwise since Slash and Duff's return we probably would have had 5 albums and every album re-released in box set format if their productivity is any indication lol

If Axl didn't like or approve of what they are doing they would have been long gone by now

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

in football or in this case music the manager is responsible for the players and or bandmates to perform they are hired because of a certain track record and ability to get the best of their people

I am not so sure a rock band manager is responsible for the performance of a band or getting the most out of the band members. I see a rock band manager more as an administrative position where they are involved in the business surrounding the music, helping the artist navigate through the complex world of contracts, record deals, facilitating tours, arranging for recording time, etc. And whereas a football manager, or even a business manager, can be judged by simple metrics like position in the league, or profits earned, it is harder to benchmark the performance of a rock band manager who may have quite varied tasks assigned by their clients, something which is rarely disclosed to the public. Some rock band managers come in at the behest of the record label to help an unexperienced band (kind of like it was with Alan Niven in GN'R's early days) and such managers can end up basically running the band and making decisions. With more established and experienced bands, the manager may take a much more subservient role and just handle tasks as directed by the client. With Guns N' Roses/Team Brazil, I think it is fair to assume the latter is the case, i.e. that Axl makes the decisions and has the vision, and that TB is tasked to realize these plans to the best of their abilities. 

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