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58 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

The details behind how the reunion came together are what I'm more interested in. Why did Axl call Slash, what did they say, etc.

In the interview Axl and Duff to that Brazilian T.V. a  few years ago. Axl said that the promoters approached him. He had a few meetings with promoters. Then he said he asked Fernando to call Slash. It was something like that. Sorry I don't remember all the details

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Just now, Padme said:

In the interview Axl and Duff to that Brazilian T.V. a  few years ago. Axl said that the promoters approached him. He had a few meetings with promoters. Then he said he asked Fernando to call Slash. It was something like that. Sorry I don't remember all the details

I know that, but I mean the details about what they talked about etc. It's more than just the promoters because they've had reunion offers since the VR days.

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6 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

I know that, but I mean the details about what they talked about etc. It's more than just the promoters because they've had reunion offers since the VR days.

Axl said that Paul Tollet from Coachella made them an offer that “seemed real.”

Translation: The Coachella guy kept offering more and more money and eventually it became too much to refuse.

So I imagine Axl called Slash and told him he wanted that Coachella money now, and Slash probably just said “okay.” Whatever they talked about beyond that is none of our business, though if the China Exchange interview is anything to go by, their convo had a lot to do with Slash’s book.

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16 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Axl said that Paul Tollet from Coachella made them an offer that “seemed real.”

Translation: The Coachella guy kept offering more and more money and eventually it became too much to refuse.

So I imagine Axl called Slash and told him he wanted that Coachella money now, and Slash probably just said “okay.” Whatever they talked about beyond that is none of our business, though if the China Exchange interview is anything to go by, their convo had a lot to do with Slash’s book.

if Bumble and Tommy quit before there were serious reunion talks, then maybe the reunion happened thanks to the generous Coachella offer but also cause now Axl didn't have a guitarist and a bass player and he couldn't realistically have replaced them with another batch of replacements and expected any significant acceptance from the fanbase.

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8 hours ago, Rovim said:

as a side note, I've always believed that a lot of what Slash said in his book (which I've enjoyed reading multiple times) was calculated to not upset Axl too much. A lot of it was even diplomatic. Maybe Slash was interested in burying the hatchet cause he knew VR wasn't going to last or at least in the case of that band's demise.

it could have been a much bitter autobiography.

I agree that Slash made a conscious effort not to be spiteful in the book, both because he didn't want to upset Axl too much and because he didn't want to come off to the fans as bitter and resentful.  However, I suspect that the problem with the book - Axl's problem - was not the tone, but the way stories about certain events/situations (especially regarding relationships with other band members) were told in it, where Slash subtly put the blame on Axl, and Axl had a different recollection. Like, for example, Adler's firing, or how the royalties from AFD were split:

https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/223066-matt-sorums-autobiography/?do=findComment&comment=4798492

or stories regarding Izzy:

https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/223066-matt-sorums-autobiography/?do=findComment&comment=4811417

or the part in the book where Slash said that Axl fired Gilby "without consulting anyone", although from other sources, including interviews of Slash himself, it doesn't seem that it happened that way.

But I don't think Slash did that intentionally (i.e. that he deliberately lied). It's just the complicated mechanism of how selective memory works and how memory is affected by later feelings and stances.

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I also remember something about Axl saying he didn't want wives of ex band members taking over the name?

I don't remember a bit like that in Slash's book, but Duff mentioned it in his book as something told to them by management as the reason for signing over the name. Axl has never cited that in public as a reason for him wanting to take the name.

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I think both Axl and Slash didn't trust one another anymore in the few years leading to the breakup of Gn'R. Slash slowly checked out and my guess is he didn't want to put all the eggs in one basket anymore, he wanted to carve his own niche outside of it and maybe he thought that Axl would never even try to keep Gn'R going without him, so when he left, maybe there was an intention there to comeback after Axl realized he had to have Slash in his band.

 

Right, that's what I meant with the power play and both of them underestimating how far the other one could take it. Slash probably didn't think that Axl would really go on to form another band under the name and stick with it, and that he could return at some point under better circumstances (ie. under the same status he was before Axl's legal takeover). And Axl probably thought that Slash would opt to stay in the band (because, despite Axl having taken legal control of it, Slash's share of royalties wouldn't be affected) rather than quit.

Edited by Blackstar
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Does really anyone need Axl to tell them why reunion happend and why Slash is not the cancer anymore?

He couldn't sell out jack s..t anymore, nobody gave a flying f..k about his solo band and the only way he could earn money again was with Slash and Duff.

Now covid going away, him not being able to sing anymore, NITL running its course and tickets sales dropping since the last tour, what genius move will he think of next?? Hm, hm...?

Hint -

Maybe splitting loot is not such a bad idea if Fernando can rebook same places for another 3 year run.

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1 hour ago, Rovim said:

if Bumble and Tommy quit before there were serious reunion talks, then maybe the reunion happened thanks to the generous Coachella offer but also cause now Axl didn't have a guitarist and a bass player and he couldn't realistically have replaced them with another batch of replacements and expected any significant acceptance from the fanbase.

Pretty sure the reunion was already in flux before Bumble and Stinson left, though they were both probably already one foot out the door.

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35 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Pretty sure the reunion was already in flux before Bumble and Stinson left, though they were both probably already one foot out the door.

Tommy said that he was supposed to play "five more tours" with GN'R but he had a daughter to care about 

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3 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

I know that, but I mean the details about what they talked about etc. It's more than just the promoters because they've had reunion offers since the VR days.

Agree, i'm be curious about the details.

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There are a couple of things  that I'm curious about. The first is what did Steven Tyler mean that the split between Axl and Slash was very deep and personal? He alluded that it was beyond music. The second the thing how did they start talking again  to reunite? 

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7 minutes ago, Draguns said:

There are a couple of things  that I'm curious about. The first is what did Steven Tyler mean that the split between Axl and Slash was very deep and personal? He alluded that it was beyond music. The second the thing how did they start talking again  to reunite? 

How did they start talking is pretty straight forward. Bumble quit, Axl was looking at the state of his band and figured it's time to mend bridges. He asked Fernando to get Slash's number and Axl called him. That's the story Axl told at least (minus the "my band was in tatters" part).

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1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

Pretty sure the reunion was already in flux before Bumble and Stinson left, though they were both probably already one foot out the door.

Tommy was going to stay with GNR, The Replacements reunion had ended by the end of 2013? so he was going to be ready to get back out with GNR. Bumble was quitting with or without the reunion, but he has said that around the time of the residency he had heard the talk of reunions... not one bit surprised he jumped ships. The sad thing was that those final Vegas shows in 2014 were really quite good... it's almost like Axl had made his mind up that NuGuns was done and he was just going to sing great to that it didn't end on a whimper. The excitement around here for those last few shows was great.

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14 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Tommy was going to stay with GNR, The Replacements reunion had ended by the end of 2013? so he was going to be ready to get back out with GNR. Bumble was quitting with or without the reunion, but he has said that around the time of the residency he had heard the talk of reunions... not one bit surprised he jumped ships. The sad thing was that those final Vegas shows in 2014 were really quite good... it's almost like Axl had made his mind up that NuGuns was done and he was just going to sing great to that it didn't end on a whimper. The excitement around here for those last few shows was great.

The Replacements actually continued on until summer 2015. Their last show was in Portugal.

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8 hours ago, downzy said:

With any specificity?  No.

But the broad strokes are there, based on the few interviews he's done.  We know that Axl felt pressured by Slash to conform to Slash's creative vision that contrasted with what Axl wanted to do.  According to Axl he wasn't feeling all that confident about his songwriting abilities around this time (which seems kind of crazy to me considering November Rain was the biggest hit from the Illusion albums).  When asked point bank, I believe by the LA Times in an interview back in 2013 or 2014, about whether he shares any responsibility for the band's demise, he responded with an analogy of being tripped on a plane (i.e., how can anyone blame him for being tripped).

Axl is and can be a very kind and courteous person.  The two times I met him he was friendly and very social.  So this isn't an indictment of him as a person.  But has anyone ever heard him take any responsibility for what happened during that period?  Maybe I missed an interview, but I don't believe I've ever heard him own any element of what happened.  You can't say that about either Slash or Duff, who do make it clear that their drug and booze habits made them less than reliable bandmates.  Also they've been upfront of not wanting to rock the boat to the point where it was just easier for them to walk away then to confront Axl directly.  

Perhaps Axl has changed now that things are patched up with Slash and Duff.  But more than likely the three of them are making way too much money on the reunion that it's just not worth it financially to dive back into what blew the band up.  All three have obviously found a place that works for them; one that perhaps involved a few private comments or discussions that really don't need to be litigated or examined by the public.  My only argument here is that considering Axl's history of not taking any responsibility for what happened, it would serve nobody's interests to see them provide a public platform to analyze the past.  Axl's unlikely to show any attrition or accept responsibility for his part in why the band imploded.  Moreover, Slash and Duff probably care more about the money they're making than getting any personal satisfaction of seeing Axl trying to defend their past issues with him. 

I don't think that Axl is incapable of taking responsibility. In the 80s and early 90s, as much as he tried to find excuses for himself, there were instances when he took part of the blame or tried to put himself in others' shoes. For example, he offered an explanation on why the other members might have felt that he had behaved as a dictator in Chicago in 1989, he understood that Izzy had a problem with him being late, admitted that sometimes Izzy was right and he was wrong, etc. And other members had mentioned that Axl would apologize to them later admitting that he had been an asshole.

But yes, he hasn't taken any responsibility (at least in public) for the breakup of the band. I think that, in addition to his ego, how much he was affected/hurt by the breakup and his growing resentment over the fact that Slash "controlled the narrative"/was favored by the press, it may come down to what he believes the source or cause of other people's actions is, and the possibility that what he believes (or is led to believe) may not be entirely the product of rational thought. If, for example, Axl was led to believe that "dark forces" were on a mission to destroy him and Slash was part of that, then there wouldn't be much place left for him to think that he might have done something wrong.

So his current position may depend on where he's at now in regards to that. I think that if Axl (still) believed that Slash was "evil" or anything like that, he wouldn't have done the reunion for all the money of the world. They probably still have some issues with each other, but I don't think they could have a working relationship, even just as a live act "for the cash," without sorting some of the personal stuff out. In one of the post-reunion interviews, Slash said, when referring to his "cathartic" conversation with Axl, that there were things that had happened at the time of the breakup the he hadn't known about. Who knows what that was. It's likely that they have sorted it out by conveniently putting all of the blame on someone else like Doug Goldstein, like @Beto 22said, so that neither of them would have to take more responsibility than the other.

EDIT: That's the quote from the Los Angeles Times interview (it was in 2011 and it seems that Axl was talking more about the band's then current situation than the breakup:

As to whether he feels that he bears any responsibility for the state of limbo he’s in, Rose says: “You can say it’s my fault, but to me it’s like if you’re on a plane and somebody trips you and the air marshal arrests you for falling — like it’s my fault for allowing somebody to trip me?”

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-xpm-2011-dec-21-la-et-12-20-axl-rose-interview-20111221-story.html

Edited by Blackstar
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3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

How did they start talking is pretty straight forward. Bumble quit, Axl was looking at the state of his band and figured it's time to mend bridges. He asked Fernando to get Slash's number and Axl called him. That's the story Axl told at least (minus the "my band was in tatters" part).

Not as straight forward as you think. Bumble stated that he knew that Slash and Duff  would return to the band when he decided to quit.  You figure that he decided probably in early 2014 to quit GNR. Bumblefoot was counting the days to the last date on the Las Vegas residency, which was May 31, 2014. This would probably mean that Axl contacted Slash in  2013 to talk. What exactly prompted this discussion after so many years? I'm not buying into the fact that Axl asked Fernando for Slash's number. Although it's never been stated, we can infer that Duff was the person who helped with mending fences between Axl and Slash.  What exactly changed Axl's mind?   

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5 hours ago, Draguns said:

There are a couple of things  that I'm curious about. The first is what did Steven Tyler mean that the split between Axl and Slash was very deep and personal? He alluded that it was beyond music. The second the thing how did they start talking again  to reunite? 

 

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

Not as straight forward as you think. Bumble stated that he knew that Slash and Duff  would return to the band when he decided to quit.  You figure that he decided probably in early 2014 to quit GNR. Bumblefoot was counting the days to the last date on the Las Vegas residency, which was May 31, 2014. This would probably mean that Axl contacted Slash in  2013 to talk. What exactly prompted this discussion after so many years? I'm not buying into the fact that Axl asked Fernando for Slash's number. Although it's never been stated, we can infer that Duff was the person who helped with mending fences between Axl and Slash.  What exactly changed Axl's mind?   

Those are the things I want to know too. And what did Duff say to change Axl's mind?

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20 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

 

Those are the things I want to know too. And what did Duff say to change Axl's mind?

As far as I can remember, Eddie Trunk was the first person who gave us a hint. Then there was some interview where Slash said he was talking to Axl. "Changed Axl's mind"? Do you really believe that Axl was happy when Slash and Duff left the band back in the 90s?

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I believe in the moment there were approvals of both parts on allowing the other to use the songs in personal projects like Appetite For Reconstruction and Slash Dvds, the main problem was behind them...

 

People to make the things bigger than they really are... In the end like Michael Corleone said "it's not personal, it's business".

Slash could say whatever he wants about why he quit... Blame on Doug, blame on Paul... But in the end it was because Axl "left the band" and create another one with the name...

Same thing with Izzy... He can say whatever about the Axl being late, trying to stay sober... In the end he left because the new partnership agreement.

 

90% of the bands breaks up because of business decisions... 

The bands that split for personal reasons usually is for the smallest things... Like wives fighting with Aerosmith and the Bernie Leadon pouring beer on Glenn Frey head with the Eagles.

 

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17 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't think that Axl is incapable of taking responsibility. In the 80s and early 90s, as much as he tried to find excuses for himself, there were instances when he took part of the blame or tried to put himself in others' shoes. For example, he offered an explanation on why the other members might have felt that he had behaved as a dictator in Chicago in 1989, he understood that Izzy had a problem with him being late, admitted that sometimes Izzy was right and he was wrong, etc. And other members had mentioned that Axl would apologize to them later admitting that he had been an asshole.

Yeah, you're right.  I guess my issue with Axl's aversion to own any of what happened is more focused on the post UYI era.   

Maybe he does feel some responsibility for what happened after 1993, but he hasn't expressed any of it publicly.  Perhaps this has something to do with how he felt he was being portrayed by former members and felt any acknowledgement would validate the perception the public had of him at the time.  But as we stretch into the 2000s and 2010s, it just seemed bizarre that there is little given in terms of accepting responsibility for not only what happened with the classic line up but the churn of nu-GNR and how long it took to release new material.  I've heard enough second and third-hand accounts (that I unfortunately don't feel comfortable sharing here) that underscores how little of the band's and his own failures that didn't find fault in others.  We all have our blind spots and this, at least from my perspective, seems to be Axl's.

17 hours ago, Blackstar said:

EDIT: That's the quote from the Los Angeles Times interview (it was in 2011 and it seems that Axl was talking more about the band's then current situation than the breakup:

As to whether he feels that he bears any responsibility for the state of limbo he’s in, Rose says: “You can say it’s my fault, but to me it’s like if you’re on a plane and somebody trips you and the air marshal arrests you for falling — like it’s my fault for allowing somebody to trip me?”

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-xpm-2011-dec-21-la-et-12-20-axl-rose-interview-20111221-story.html

Thanks.  So much time has passed now that it all kind of blurs together.  

It's both funny and sad that Axl doesn't see himself as the common denominator in all of this.  That he's just the perpetual victim of misfortune and the ill will of others.  

 

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14 hours ago, Draguns said:

Not as straight forward as you think. Bumble stated that he knew that Slash and Duff  would return to the band when he decided to quit.  You figure that he decided probably in early 2014 to quit GNR. Bumblefoot was counting the days to the last date on the Las Vegas residency, which was May 31, 2014. This would probably mean that Axl contacted Slash in  2013 to talk. What exactly prompted this discussion after so many years? I'm not buying into the fact that Axl asked Fernando for Slash's number. Although it's never been stated, we can infer that Duff was the person who helped with mending fences between Axl and Slash.  What exactly changed Axl's mind?   

In 2015, the plan was still to release the follow up to CD by sometime in 2016 with the lineup Axl had present.  I can't expand on it too much more, but there was still some level of animosity within the GNR camp towards Slash as of July 2015.  

GNR was also holding out the possibility of Bumble's return in 2014 should Ron had changed his mind.  It's why they never really officially announced his departure.  GNR had a history of guitar players leaving and then returning to the fold, and I think this was the calculation with GNR when it came to Ron.  The focus in 2015 was not on a reunion but on a new album.  So I have a hard time believing that anything other than perhaps a one-off pay day show was being discussed at this point.  And even that seemed like a remote possibility at the time. 

I personally think things happened very quickly.  Once DJ told Guns that he was out mid July 2015, Axl was now faced with having to find two guitar replacements (or one Slash).  I'm guessing Axl didn't want to have to do what he did with CD when Bucket left and re-record everything again.  Pivoting from an unreleased album with guitarists who were no longer in the band to a reunion would change the narrative around music delays.  It would have made a lot sense from a PR standpoint.  Moreover, who knows what the finances were like at the time, but retooling the band to push through an album would have cost a lot of money (money that likely wasn't going to come from the label).  I do know communication with management and GNR's publicist changed drastically in August of 2015.  There was a total lock down on outside communication by mid to late August that was a drastic departure from a month prior.  This is why I doubt plans for a reunion pre-date mid to late 2015.  I think once the possibility became real everyone wanted to be very careful not to rock boat.  

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7 hours ago, downzy said:

In 2015, the plan was still to release the follow up to CD by sometime in 2016 with the lineup Axl had present.  I can't expand on it too much more, but there was still some level of animosity within the GNR camp towards Slash as of July 2015.  

GNR was also holding out the possibility of Bumble's return in 2014 should Ron had changed his mind.  It's why they never really officially announced his departure.  GNR had a history of guitar players leaving and then returning to the fold, and I think this was the calculation with GNR when it came to Ron.  The focus in 2015 was not on a reunion but on a new album.  So I have a hard time believing that anything other than perhaps a one-off pay day show was being discussed at this point.  And even that seemed like a remote possibility at the time. 

I personally think things happened very quickly.  Once DJ told Guns that he was out mid July 2015, Axl was now faced with having to find two guitar replacements (or one Slash).  I'm guessing Axl didn't want to have to do what he did with CD when Bucket left and re-record everything again.  Pivoting from an unreleased album with guitarists who were no longer in the band to a reunion would change the narrative around music delays.  It would have made a lot sense from a PR standpoint.  Moreover, who knows what the finances were like at the time, but retooling the band to push through an album would have cost a lot of money (money that likely wasn't going to come from the label).  I do know communication with management and GNR's publicist changed drastically in August of 2015.  There was a total lock down on outside communication by mid to late August that was a drastic departure from a month prior.  This is why I doubt plans for a reunion pre-date mid to late 2015.  I think once the possibility became real everyone wanted to be very careful not to rock boat.  

Very interesting that there was still some level of animosity for Slash by the GNR camp in July 2015. It makes it more intriguing as to what Steven Tyler  said about the rift being more personal and deep.  If it was just music and/or business then they probably would have found a way to reconcile sooner. The only other that I can think of that could be deep and personal was Slash playing with Michael Jackson. Rumor was that Axl wasn't happy about that due to Michael Jackson allegedly molesting kids back in the day. Since Axl was sexually abused as a child that could be the personal reason.   Thank you for the additional information!

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Which would also explain why Chris has called the reunion a cash crab.

He helped to finish the new album back in 2015 (He has posted a picture from the studio back then). 

Or maybe he just heard Slash's rendition of TIL and started a fight on purpose, lol. 

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By all accounts, Tommy seemed to believe that they'd be hitting the studio to work on a new album in 2014 with an interview he done earlier that year, so I would rule out any chatter of Axl and Slash trying to sort things out before the 2015 date that they've mentioned publicly. 

I find it intriguing that the camp stated that there intention was to get an album out with the 09/14 era line up in 2015/16. I wonder how that would have been received both within the fan base and with the casuals, as DJ was a such a divisive topic from his live performances alone. 

Stinson is missed. 

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