This does not seem like a band...

[Free Bird]

3 hours ago, Dean said:

By all accounts, Tommy seemed to believe that they'd be hitting the studio to work on a new album in 2014 with an interview he done earlier that year, so I would rule out any chatter of Axl and Slash trying to sort things out before the 2015 date that they've mentioned publicly. 

I find it intriguing that the camp stated that there intention was to get an album out with the 09/14 era line up in 2015/16. I wonder how that would have been received both within the fan base and with the casuals, as DJ was a such a divisive topic from his live performances alone. 

Stinson is missed. 

I could post interviews with several members from every year about them believing to hit the studio soon 

[Free Bird]

20 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

Same thing with Izzy... He can say whatever about the Axl being late, trying to stay sober... In the end he left because the new partnership agreement.

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Free Bird

[Free Bird]

11 hours ago, downzy said:

I personally think things happened very quickly.  Once DJ told Guns that he was out mid July 2015, Axl was now faced with having to find two guitar replacements (or one Slash). 

Didn't DJ left because of the reunion? I thought it was this way...

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

Yeah the new partnership didn't come until 1995. Though it's probably fair to say Izzy seen the writing on the wall.

[Dean]

2 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I could post interviews with several members from every year about them believing to hit the studio soon 

Not Tommy though, which makes him more credible!

[downzy]

7 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Didn't DJ left because of the reunion? I thought it was this way...

No, it had nothing to do with any reunion possibilities 

[Blackstar]

7 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

6 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Yeah the new partnership didn't come until 1995. Though it's probably fair to say Izzy seen the writing on the wall.

The first written partnership agreement that we know of, which was linked to the renegotiated recording agreement, was signed in 1992. But the renegotiation had started earlier, when Alan Niven was still the manager. I assume @Beto 22 meant the threats to make Izzy a lesser partner in the not yet signed partnership agreement.

 

[jamillos]

8 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Didn't DJ left because of the reunion? I thought it was this way...

We don't really know, and I doubt we ever will.

[Blackstar]

Axl said in the spring of 2014 that they were going to start looking seriously on releasing a new album after the Vegas shows in June. Before that, he had been very vague about the follow-up to CD - a recurring theme in some of his interviews was "talking with the label." 

I can't find the Tommy Stinson interview from early 2014 that @Dean mentioned. But Tommy later said that they all "kind of left" at the last show of the Vegas residency in 2014. Going by this, as well as Bumblefoot's interviews after 2015 and the Fortus interview in late 2014, whatever was going on in regards to new music in late 2014 and 2015 involved only Fortus, Pitman and probably Ashba.

The first direct contact (the phone call) between Axl and Slash took place in March 2015, so before Ashba left (unless both Axl and Slash have lied about the date of the phone call, which seems unlikely). In light of @downzy's information, it could be speculated that at that time Axl was only considering an one-off reunion show in Coachella and nothing more. However, the fact that Axl took the step to call Slash suggests that he was looking at that possibility (of the one-off show) quite seriously - I'm thinking that maybe Axl is unpredictable even for TB...

Then we also have the aforementioned Fortus interview in late 2014, where he said that they were working on ideas dating from the Slash era.

In the China Exchange interview, Axl talked in present tense about working on a new album, but sounded uncertain about whether Slash would be on it, although he said that it would be great. It kind of sounded like he was seeing whatever was going on as a continuation of what had started in 2014/15 in regards to new music, but it's not very clear. In any case, it seems that as of June 2016 things were uncertain about what the future held other than the reunion shows.

Axl: We are working on new stuff. But, I don't know. Like I said a long time ago, "I don't know if soon is the word." But I got a lot of stuff together and I've played some stuff for Slash and Duff, and they like it, and they might be on it, we don't know.

And later in the interview:

Axl: I do want to put out more music with Guns N' Roses, and I don't know if that has to do with Slash or not, but underneath the Guns n' Roses thing, and if he and I write something or if he wants to play on something we have, it's like, that'd be great. I have been working to get where things are. This isn't - the Guns n' Roses reunion hasn't happened by chance or whatever… it was always looked at as a possibility, but it just never seemed right or felt right.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2686-2016-06-07-interview-with-axl-at-china-exchange

What could we make of all this, combined with @downzy's info? A theory:

By spring 2014, Axl was seriously thinking of finally releasing the follow-up to CD and was still talking with the label. But at the same time, there were signs that the NuGnR lineup had started disintegrating,  and after the Vegas shows Bumblefoot and Tommy were not part of whatever was going on, for different reasons each. On the other hand, Duff was in the picture, he and Axl were seemingly on good terms, and legal disputes between Axl and Slash started getting sorted out.

Under those circumstances, even though a reunion as a long-term thing was not in cards yet, maybe Axl started considering the possibility of an one-off reunion show and also of having Slash on one-two songs on the album (hence the Fortus reference in late 2014 - otherwise why would songs originating from Slash be unearthed?), as a way to get a better release deal with the label. That idea wouldn't have been new; as per Marc Canter, Axl was talking in 2001 about including Slash songs and having him play on them (provided that Slash would apologize). So, having that in mind, Axl makes the first direct contact with Slash in spring 2015, while Slash was on tour, but they don't talk again directly until months later.

In July 2015, Ashba quits and on the 31st of the same month the GN'R camp confirms that Bumblefoot is out and "has been for some time," making his departure official:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180731093251/https://wmmr.com/2015/07/31/gnr-reps-confirm-ron-bumblefoot-thal-left-band/

So, after that, things take a different turn. Negotiations with the Slash camp start, at first still being basically about Coachella, then Axl and Slash meet in person in October, and that gradually led to a long-term reunion. But at that point it was only about doing shows, and new music hadn't been seriously discussed yet, which I think is logical, as they didn't know yet if it would work or not.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Blackstar

[Dean]

5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

 

I can't find the Tommy Stinson interview from early 2014 that @Dean mentioned.

 

7:49

 

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Dean said:

7:49

 

Thanks. So that interview was in May 2014. As I understood it, he was just saying that they were going to do some jamming at DJ Ashba's home studio in Vegas while they would be there for the residency, not that they would be hitting a studio to record. I think that jam happened and, if I'm not mistaken, Bumblefoot later said that it was his last jam with the band - and also one of the very few times they actually did that as long as he was there. But nothing happened after that, at least as far as Bumblefoot and Tommy were concerned.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Blackstar

[Sosso]

Axl: We are working on new stuff. But, I don't know. Like I said a long time ago, "I don't know if soon is the word." But I got a lot of stuff together and I've played some stuff for Slash and Duff, and they like it, and they might be on it, we don't know.

This answer from Axl basically confirmed that he hasn't changed his production style at all. GN'R songs with former members and/or without Slash and Duff are still a possibility. 

[Blackstar]

7 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Axl: We are working on new stuff. But, I don't know. Like I said a long time ago, "I don't know if soon is the word." But I got a lot of stuff together and I've played some stuff for Slash and Duff, and they like it, and they might be on it, we don't know.

This answer from Axl basically confirmed that he hasn't changed his production style at all. GN'R songs with former members and/or without Slash and Duff are still a possibility. 

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

[Sosso]

40 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

I don't think that we will hear Robin Finck or Buckethead on the lead single but there are still ten or twelve other songs on a possible album.

Also, the public eye couldn't care less about the album credits. Most of the fans just want to hear Axl and Slash on the first single. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Sosso

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

By spring 2014, Axl was seriously thinking of finally releasing the follow-up to CD and was still talking with the label. But at the same time, there were signs that the NuGnR lineup had started disintegrating

this sucks. if true (which I think it is) Axl was finally seriously looking and thinking but as always, any kind of potential or momentum regarding a new album was lost cause Axl waited too long and it fell apart again. Pitman must have been furious.

at least there is no risk of that happening with this line up, I don't think. This line up makes more money and Duff and Slash have no reason to quit and they seem to really understand and accept Axl time.

my hope is that if the plan is to release some version of mostly unreleased Chinese material with Slash and Duff, I think at some point Axl will complete it and maybe then he'd want to talk about it and give a release date later when the label and the band manages to agree on how to approach a release.

it seems like all of the upcoming shows will have to happen first and if there is still work to be done on the album it will resume after they complete it. Just a guess of course.

 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

this sucks. if true (which I think it is) Axl was finally seriously looking and thinking but as always, any kind of potential or momentum regarding a new album was lost cause Axl waited too long and it fell apart again. Pitman must have been furious.

I think the reason it fell apart wasn't just - or mainly - that Axl waited too long; it had also a lot to do with what Axl's intentions were in regards to the content of a new album. It seems that Axl wanted to release the second part of CD, meaning songs that were written in the early 2000s, with additional layers from Bumblefoot and Ashba, and didn't have much interest, at that point at least, on song ideas from the then current lineup. But they - Bumblefoot in particular - wanted to be on the new album not only as players, but as writers - in other words they wanted writing credits. Bumblefoot also probably wanted that to happen in the traditional way, like giving Axl full songs and Axl putting words on them, and that wasn't going to happen. Which makes me think that Bumblefoot should have known what he was getting into, as there was already a history on how things worked in NuGnR the time he joined. Or maybe he and Ashba had too much confidence in themselves and thought they could change things.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Blackstar

[Lio]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

Sorry, I have nothing to contribute, only that OMG it's been over 5 years since China Exchange

Reading this thread reminded me of all the stuff that was said and discussed over half a decade ago. I'd forgotten a lot of it, so thanks all. And God, I hope we'll have something new to discuss in a few weeks when the tour kicks off! An new update would be nice instead of diving into the past

[downzy]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

It’s the same problem Axl keeps finding himself in with respect to new music. With the passage of so much time comes changes in the lineup that makes releasing the music that’s close to completion (or done) difficult.

I agree that had they released something within the first couple of years of the reunion there could be allowances for the inclusion of former nu-GNR members. But five years later?  Anything Bucket/Robin/Ron/Ashba would need to be scrubbed and redone at this point, which adds to the delay.  I’m not sure if Axl believed this, but I do know at one point a year or two ago that amongst GNR incorporated that some of the delay was placed with Slash refocusing on his solo stuff in 2017-2018 (can’t remember the year exactly). Had Slash prioritized GNR material, the thinking went, and not what he was doing with his own band a new album would have been closer to release.  Yes, I know. It sounds ridiculous. But this was the position internally amongst those employed by the band. 

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, downzy said:

It’s the same problem Axl keeps finding himself in with respect to new music. With the passage of so much time comes changes in the lineup that makes releasing the music that’s close to completion (or done) difficult.

I agree that had they released something within the first couple of years of the reunion there could be allowances for the inclusion of former nu-GNR members. But five years later?  Anything Bucket/Robin/Ron/Ashba would need to be scrubbed and redone at this point, which adds to the delay.  I’m not sure if Axl believed this, but I do know at one point a year or two ago that amongst GNR incorporated that some of the delay was placed at the blame of Slash refocusing on his solo stuff in 2017-2018 (can’t remember the year exactly). That had Slash prioritized GNR material and not what he was doing with his own band a new album would have been closer to release.  Yes, I know. It sounds ridiculous. But this was the position internally amongst those employed by the band. 

I think that a CD type album featuring current and former "nu" members wouldn't have been possible even in 2016. Axl may have had that idea, but it wasn't realistic, because a reunion lineup - or, rather, a lineup with Slash - is not like any other lineup. Slash would never accept being just one of the guitarists on a GN'R album. I doubt that there had been any substantial discussions about new music at that point. Probably Axl just played Slash and Duff some stuff and maybe presented them with some ideas, they said something like, "Yeah, that's cool, we'll see," and that was all.

That's funny about partly blaming the delay on the release of SMKC (it was 2018), because TB had been fully supportive in public - I remember Fernando posting "Psyched!" on Instagram about a SMKC show. I wonder what they would say now after such abundance of time. Slash has written another SMKC, but there was plenty of time for GN'R. 

 Slash has not proceeded to record the new SMKC yet (unless he has done it secretly ), although the songs have been ready to go for some time. Maybe it's irrelevant to GN'R - or it's relevant only to the tour and nothing more - but it's something worth noting.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Blackstar

[UseYourDemocracyIII]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Slash has not proceeded to record the new SMKC yet (unless he has done it secretly ), although the songs have been ready to go for some time.

The SMKC TikTok gives the complete opposite impression; lots of vids of them playing together in the studio (even with some new stuff heard in the background), and then the music video set up as well.

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, UseYourDemocracyIII said:

The SMKC TikTok gives the complete opposite impression; lots of vids of them playing together in the studio (even with some new stuff heard in the background), and then the music video set up as well.

Oh, I don't follow TikTok, but I think they have done pre-production (writing, arranging, demoing) but not actual recording/production yet. Maybe @MaskingApathy knows.

[Rickodez]

On 6/18/2021 at 8:49 PM, Draguns said:

Very interesting that there was still some level of animosity for Slash by the GNR camp in July 2015. It makes it more intriguing as to what Steven Tyler  said about the rift being more personal and deep.  If it was just music and/or business then they probably would have found a way to reconcile sooner. The only other that I can think of that could be deep and personal was Slash playing with Michael Jackson. Rumor was that Axl wasn't happy about that due to Michael Jackson allegedly molesting kids back in the day. Since Axl was sexually abused as a child that could be the personal reason.   Thank you for the additional information!

Nothing of this story seems to be true. Doubt he would still enjoy so much the music and voice of someone he thinks is a bad person and triggers his childhood traumas.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/axl-rose-responds-to-list-calling-him-worlds-greatest-singer-124867/

“That said, I enjoy Freddie Mercury, Elvis Presley, Paul McCartney, [Nazareth singer] Dan McCafferty, Janis Joplin, Michael Jackson, Elton John, Roger Daltrey, Don Henley, [Electric Light Orchestra frontman] Jeff Lynne, Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra, [jazz singer] Jimmy Scott, Etta James, Fiona Apple, [Pretenders frontwoman] Chrissie Hynde, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and a ton of others (predominantly Seventies rock singers) and would rather hear any of them anytime rather than me!”

Edited June 20, 2021 by Rickodez

[Ratam]

2 hours ago, Rickodez said:

Nothing of this story seems to be true. Doubt he would still enjoy so much the music and voice of someone he thinks is a bad person and triggers his childhood traumas.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/axl-rose-responds-to-list-calling-him-worlds-greatest-singer-124867/

“That said, I enjoy Freddie Mercury, Elvis Presley, Paul McCartney, [Nazareth singer] Dan McCafferty, Janis Joplin, Michael Jackson, Elton John, Roger Daltrey, Don Henley, [Electric Light Orchestra frontman] Jeff Lynne, Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra, [jazz singer] Jimmy Scott, Etta James, Fiona Apple, [Pretenders frontwoman] Chrissie Hynde, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and a ton of others (predominantly Seventies rock singers) and would rather hear any of them anytime rather than me!”

I have the feeling it about MJ was Doug Goldstein BS.

[Draguns]

2 hours ago, Rickodez said:

Nothing of this story seems to be true. Doubt he would still enjoy so much the music and voice of someone he thinks is a bad person and triggers his childhood traumas.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/axl-rose-responds-to-list-calling-him-worlds-greatest-singer-124867/

“That said, I enjoy Freddie Mercury, Elvis Presley, Paul McCartney, [Nazareth singer] Dan McCafferty, Janis Joplin, Michael Jackson, Elton John, Roger Daltrey, Don Henley, [Electric Light Orchestra frontman] Jeff Lynne, Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra, [jazz singer] Jimmy Scott, Etta James, Fiona Apple, [Pretenders frontwoman] Chrissie Hynde, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and a ton of others (predominantly Seventies rock singers) and would rather hear any of them anytime rather than me!”

We don't know if it is or isn't. I'm just throwing it out there. I've always been curious as to what Steven Tyler meant by the rift being personal and deep.  

[MaskingApathy]

22 hours ago, downzy said:

I’m not sure if Axl believed this, but I do know at one point a year or two ago that amongst GNR incorporated that some of the delay was placed with Slash refocusing on his solo stuff in 2017-2018 (can’t remember the year exactly). Had Slash prioritized GNR material, the thinking went, and not what he was doing with his own band a new album would have been closer to release.  Yes, I know. It sounds ridiculous. But this was the position internally amongst those employed by the band. 

That proves what I've been saying since the start of the reunion, that (in Slash's mind at least) SMKC is his main passion and GnR is "just a gig" to make some money and tour. If GnR had become the main priority then he would've held off on SMKC until the new GnR record was out. But he didn't, so it makes it clear how he still prioritizes SMKC, and shows that it's not going away anytime soon. If anything I would guess that at times he feels that GnR is hindering doing more with SMKC.

Back in early 2018 I spent some time with a couple of the SMKC guys and one of them told me that at the last GnR show in their city they were hanging out with Slash and he said something along the lines of "this GnR tour has been fun, playing the old songs etc, but I can't wait to get back together with you guys (my band) playing my songs." Fast forward to the next year and they were doing exactly that.