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This does not seem like a band...


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7 hours ago, downzy said:

In 2015, the plan was still to release the follow up to CD by sometime in 2016 with the lineup Axl had present.  I can't expand on it too much more, but there was still some level of animosity within the GNR camp towards Slash as of July 2015.  

GNR was also holding out the possibility of Bumble's return in 2014 should Ron had changed his mind.  It's why they never really officially announced his departure.  GNR had a history of guitar players leaving and then returning to the fold, and I think this was the calculation with GNR when it came to Ron.  The focus in 2015 was not on a reunion but on a new album.  So I have a hard time believing that anything other than perhaps a one-off pay day show was being discussed at this point.  And even that seemed like a remote possibility at the time. 

I personally think things happened very quickly.  Once DJ told Guns that he was out mid July 2015, Axl was now faced with having to find two guitar replacements (or one Slash).  I'm guessing Axl didn't want to have to do what he did with CD when Bucket left and re-record everything again.  Pivoting from an unreleased album with guitarists who were no longer in the band to a reunion would change the narrative around music delays.  It would have made a lot sense from a PR standpoint.  Moreover, who knows what the finances were like at the time, but retooling the band to push through an album would have cost a lot of money (money that likely wasn't going to come from the label).  I do know communication with management and GNR's publicist changed drastically in August of 2015.  There was a total lock down on outside communication by mid to late August that was a drastic departure from a month prior.  This is why I doubt plans for a reunion pre-date mid to late 2015.  I think once the possibility became real everyone wanted to be very careful not to rock boat.  

Very interesting that there was still some level of animosity for Slash by the GNR camp in July 2015. It makes it more intriguing as to what Steven Tyler  said about the rift being more personal and deep.  If it was just music and/or business then they probably would have found a way to reconcile sooner. The only other that I can think of that could be deep and personal was Slash playing with Michael Jackson. Rumor was that Axl wasn't happy about that due to Michael Jackson allegedly molesting kids back in the day. Since Axl was sexually abused as a child that could be the personal reason.   Thank you for the additional information!

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Which would also explain why Chris has called the reunion a cash crab.

He helped to finish the new album back in 2015 (He has posted a picture from the studio back then). 

Or maybe he just heard Slash's rendition of TIL and started a fight on purpose, lol. 

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By all accounts, Tommy seemed to believe that they'd be hitting the studio to work on a new album in 2014 with an interview he done earlier that year, so I would rule out any chatter of Axl and Slash trying to sort things out before the 2015 date that they've mentioned publicly. 

I find it intriguing that the camp stated that there intention was to get an album out with the 09/14 era line up in 2015/16. I wonder how that would have been received both within the fan base and with the casuals, as DJ was a such a divisive topic from his live performances alone. 

Stinson is missed. 

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3 hours ago, Dean said:

By all accounts, Tommy seemed to believe that they'd be hitting the studio to work on a new album in 2014 with an interview he done earlier that year, so I would rule out any chatter of Axl and Slash trying to sort things out before the 2015 date that they've mentioned publicly. 

I find it intriguing that the camp stated that there intention was to get an album out with the 09/14 era line up in 2015/16. I wonder how that would have been received both within the fan base and with the casuals, as DJ was a such a divisive topic from his live performances alone. 

Stinson is missed. 

I could post interviews with several members from every year about them believing to hit the studio soon :lol:

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20 hours ago, Beto 22 said:

Same thing with Izzy... He can say whatever about the Axl being late, trying to stay sober... In the end he left because the new partnership agreement.

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

 

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11 hours ago, downzy said:

I personally think things happened very quickly.  Once DJ told Guns that he was out mid July 2015, Axl was now faced with having to find two guitar replacements (or one Slash). 

Didn't DJ left because of the reunion? I thought it was this way...

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1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

Yeah the new partnership didn't come until 1995. Though it's probably fair to say Izzy seen the writing on the wall.

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2 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I could post interviews with several members from every year about them believing to hit the studio soon :lol:

Not Tommy though, which makes him more credible!

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7 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I can be wrong but didn't they sign the partnership agreement after Izzy left?

6 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Yeah the new partnership didn't come until 1995. Though it's probably fair to say Izzy seen the writing on the wall.

The first written partnership agreement that we know of, which was linked to the renegotiated recording agreement, was signed in 1992. But the renegotiation had started earlier, when Alan Niven was still the manager. I assume @Beto 22 meant the threats to make Izzy a lesser partner in the not yet signed partnership agreement.

 

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2 hours ago, Dean said:

7:49

 

Thanks. So that interview was in May 2014. As I understood it, he was just saying that they were going to do some jamming at DJ Ashba's home studio in Vegas while they would be there for the residency, not that they would be hitting a studio to record. I think that jam happened and, if I'm not mistaken, Bumblefoot later said that it was his last jam with the band - and also one of the very few times they actually did that as long as he was there. But nothing happened after that, at least as far as Bumblefoot and Tommy were concerned.

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Axl: We are working on new stuff. But, I don't know. Like I said a long time ago, "I don't know if soon is the word." But I got a lot of stuff together and I've played some stuff for Slash and Duff, and they like it, and they might be on it, we don't know.

This answer from Axl basically confirmed that he hasn't changed his production style at all. GN'R songs with former members and/or without Slash and Duff are still a possibility. 

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7 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Axl: We are working on new stuff. But, I don't know. Like I said a long time ago, "I don't know if soon is the word." But I got a lot of stuff together and I've played some stuff for Slash and Duff, and they like it, and they might be on it, we don't know.

This answer from Axl basically confirmed that he hasn't changed his production style at all. GN'R songs with former members and/or without Slash and Duff are still a possibility. 

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

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40 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

I don't think that we will hear Robin Finck or Buckethead on the lead single but there are still ten or twelve other songs on a possible album.

Also, the public eye couldn't care less about the album credits. Most of the fans just want to hear Axl and Slash on the first single. 

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2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

By spring 2014, Axl was seriously thinking of finally releasing the follow-up to CD and was still talking with the label. But at the same time, there were signs that the NuGnR lineup had started disintegrating

this sucks. if true (which I think it is) Axl was finally seriously looking and thinking but as always, any kind of potential or momentum regarding a new album was lost cause Axl waited too long and it fell apart again. Pitman must have been furious.

at least there is no risk of that happening with this line up, I don't think. This line up makes more money and Duff and Slash have no reason to quit and they seem to really understand and accept Axl time.

my hope is that if the plan is to release some version of mostly unreleased Chinese material with Slash and Duff, I think at some point Axl will complete it and maybe then he'd want to talk about it and give a release date later when the label and the band manages to agree on how to approach a release.

it seems like all of the upcoming shows will have to happen first and if there is still work to be done on the album it will resume after they complete it. Just a guess of course.

 

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1 hour ago, Rovim said:

this sucks. if true (which I think it is) Axl was finally seriously looking and thinking but as always, any kind of potential or momentum regarding a new album was lost cause Axl waited too long and it fell apart again. Pitman must have been furious.

I think the reason it fell apart wasn't just - or mainly - that Axl waited too long; it had also a lot to do with what Axl's intentions were in regards to the content of a new album. It seems that Axl wanted to release the second part of CD, meaning songs that were written in the early 2000s, with additional layers from Bumblefoot and Ashba, and didn't have much interest, at that point at least, on song ideas from the then current lineup. But they - Bumblefoot in particular - wanted to be on the new album not only as players, but as writers - in other words they wanted writing credits. Bumblefoot also probably wanted that to happen in the traditional way, like giving Axl full songs and Axl putting words on them, and that wasn't going to happen. Which makes me think that Bumblefoot should have known what he was getting into, as there was already a history on how things worked in NuGnR the time he joined. Or maybe he and Ashba had too much confidence in themselves and thought they could change things.

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7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That was in 2016 though, in the beginning of the reunion. More than five years have passed since then, so we couldn't possibly know what he thinks now. But, regardless of what he thinks, with the reunion having become a permanent thing, an album featuring both Slash/Duff and former members from the Nu era is not a possibility, in my opinion. As much as Slash has been willing to compromise on other issues so far, I don't think he would ever agree on that - plus, it wouldn't go well with the public.

It’s the same problem Axl keeps finding himself in with respect to new music. With the passage of so much time comes changes in the lineup that makes releasing the music that’s close to completion (or done) difficult.

I agree that had they released something within the first couple of years of the reunion there could be allowances for the inclusion of former nu-GNR members. But five years later?  Anything Bucket/Robin/Ron/Ashba would need to be scrubbed and redone at this point, which adds to the delay.  I’m not sure if Axl believed this, but I do know at one point a year or two ago that amongst GNR incorporated that some of the delay was placed with Slash refocusing on his solo stuff in 2017-2018 (can’t remember the year exactly). Had Slash prioritized GNR material, the thinking went, and not what he was doing with his own band a new album would have been closer to release.  Yes, I know. It sounds ridiculous. But this was the position internally amongst those employed by the band. 

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4 hours ago, downzy said:

It’s the same problem Axl keeps finding himself in with respect to new music. With the passage of so much time comes changes in the lineup that makes releasing the music that’s close to completion (or done) difficult.

I agree that had they released something within the first couple of years of the reunion there could be allowances for the inclusion of former nu-GNR members. But five years later?  Anything Bucket/Robin/Ron/Ashba would need to be scrubbed and redone at this point, which adds to the delay.  I’m not sure if Axl believed this, but I do know at one point a year or two ago that amongst GNR incorporated that some of the delay was placed at the blame of Slash refocusing on his solo stuff in 2017-2018 (can’t remember the year exactly). That had Slash prioritized GNR material and not what he was doing with his own band a new album would have been closer to release.  Yes, I know. It sounds ridiculous. But this was the position internally amongst those employed by the band. 

I think that a CD type album featuring current and former "nu" members wouldn't have been possible even in 2016. Axl may have had that idea, but it wasn't realistic, because a reunion lineup - or, rather, a lineup with Slash - is not like any other lineup. Slash would never accept being just one of the guitarists on a GN'R album. I doubt that there had been any substantial discussions about new music at that point. Probably Axl just played Slash and Duff some stuff and maybe presented them with some ideas, they said something like, "Yeah, that's cool, we'll see," and that was all.

That's funny about partly blaming the delay on the release of SMKC (it was 2018), because TB had been fully supportive in public - I remember Fernando posting "Psyched!" on Instagram about a SMKC show. I wonder what they would say now after such abundance of time. Slash has written another SMKC, but there was plenty of time for GN'R. 

 Slash has not proceeded to record the new SMKC yet (unless he has done it secretly :lol:), although the songs have been ready to go for some time. Maybe it's irrelevant to GN'R - or it's relevant only to the tour and nothing more - but it's something worth noting.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Slash has not proceeded to record the new SMKC yet (unless he has done it secretly :lol:), although the songs have been ready to go for some time.

The SMKC TikTok gives the complete opposite impression; lots of vids of them playing together in the studio (even with some new stuff heard in the background), and then the music video set up as well.

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1 minute ago, UseYourDemocracyIII said:

The SMKC TikTok gives the complete opposite impression; lots of vids of them playing together in the studio (even with some new stuff heard in the background), and then the music video set up as well.

Oh, I don't follow TikTok, but I think they have done pre-production (writing, arranging, demoing) but not actual recording/production yet. Maybe @MaskingApathy knows.

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