Am I the only one fed up with hearing about Slash and Duff's extracurricular musical activities...

[RussTCB]

Just now, Towelie said:

It cost you dearly IIRC.

 

I know! I lost a bet to one of my old neighbors and had to pay him $50 on the way out! 

[SoulMonster]

44 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Ah, you're still in the 'new record is coming' camp! I moved out of there about a year ago! 

I didn't when the "reunion" happened, but now it certainly seems that it is in the works.

I find it a bit baffling that people who were around in the dark years would abandon hope of a new record simply because it takes a while or because Axl isn't reaffirming it to us frequently. It might take long, but I am confident it will happen until Axl says otherwise or disbands the band. 

[SoulMonster]

25 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't when the "reunion" happened, but now it certainly seems that it is in the works.

I find it a bit baffling that people who were around in the dark years would abandon hope of a new record simply because it takes a while or because Axl isn't reaffirming it to us frequently. It might take long, but I am confident it will happen until Axl says otherwise or disbands the band. 

Just to follow up on this now that I have more time:

The period between Spaghetti Incident? and Chinese Democracy is not identical to the period between Chinese Democracy and the possible follow-up. That's not what I am saying, just that we have been through long, quiet periods before and that I get a deja vu whenever people abandon hope. The former period took about 14 years, we are now on 13 years, I believe. And although there were really bleak periods in the former (like in 2002 after the cancelled tour and in 2007 when the record wasn't released despite claims it would), there were still sporadic direct or indirect assertions from Axl that a record would come; this time around Axl is more quiet and what he has been saying is less consoling. Another difference is that back Axl might have had more motivations to release Chinese Democracy than releasing an album now. And much more. So these are not identical periods, you can find arguments suggesting the release of Chinese Democracy was more likely than a release of a follow-up, but also that a release of a follow-up is more likely than the release of Chinese Democracy! What we know is that the music exists, likely an entire record. That band members wants to get it out. And that Axl has never said he is through with releasing music. And that the band still exists and is not on hiatus. For the time being, I see no reason to not believe it will come out, some day.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Why are you convinced of this? Is it inconceivable to you that Axl, because of anything from entirely rational reasons (issues with the label, issues with former members, issues with financing) to bizarre reasons (not "feeling" it, to spite someone, because the music scene wasn't complimentary), could be unable/unwilling to release a record in year A but be completely ready to do it in year B? That's exactly what I would expect from him. If anything, considering the saga of Chinese Democracy, we know that Axl works in mysterious ways.

If there was a record ready, there has to be a reason that it wasn't released. If Axl thought the record was done, what stopped him from releasing it? I don't believe that the record company would prevent him from releasing music. To me that doesn't make sense so I believe either there wasn't a record done or Axl wasn't happy with it, which basically would also mean that he thought it wasn't ready. 

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

If there was a record ready, there has to be a reason that it wasn't released. If Axl thought the record was done, what stopped him from releasing it? I don't believe that the record company would prevent him from releasing music. To me that doesn't make sense so I believe either there wasn't a record done or Axl wasn't happy with it, which basically would also mean that he thought it wasn't ready. 

The record could be done in the sense of being mastered without Axl wanting to release it, absolutely. It could also be done as in being recorded without Axl and the label coming to agreement on the release plans. There could also be legal barriers between Axl and former members that prevents a release. With Axl, I think there is a multitude of possibilities for why a record isn't coming out, some of which is likely to be close to infathomable to us, and with the complexities that exist (with both the label and the large number of former members, some of which left in bitterness) I find it plausible that there could be more rational legal entanglements that needs to be unravelled. 

And just look at the history. Chinese Democracy, or a version of it, was ready to be released in 2006, yet it didn't happen. Of course that could have been the case in 2010 or 2014 or later for the follow-up, too. These things just happen in the world of Guns N' Roses. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by SoulMonster

[DurhamGirl]

I dont mind Duff and Slash doing other things I just wish they would do something with their own band.  

[RussTCB]

19 minutes ago, DurhamGirl said:

I dont mind Duff and Slash doing other things I just wish they would do something with their own band.  

Shouldn't Axl being doing something with his own band too? 

[Sosso]

42 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Shouldn't Axl being doing something with his own band too? 

He did the Rock the Rock song. That should be enough for a decade 

[WhazUp]

1 hour ago, DurhamGirl said:

I dont mind Duff and Slash doing other things I just wish they would do something with their own band.  

Ultimately they have been, from the sounds of it.  But they can do all they want with GNR, if the singer doesn't do anything with it in terms of developing the material or releasing it once it has been, none of it matters

So I am glad Duff and Slash are doing other stuff, it would be a shame if the lame duck that is GNR stifled their ability to anything in general

Edited July 3, 2021 by WhazUp

[Tom2112]

It is less annoying and more disappointing. I guess the carrot being dangled by their genius management on reddit is that there's an album ready/in the works so we're kept hoping that, that isn't just complete BS like every other thing he says.

Slash and Duff can't force GNR to record, maybe they've already recorded already for what would be a GNR record? they are not holding up a GNR release (unless they hate Axls material and want to go a different direction🤔). End of the day Slash would have prioritised GNR if GNR prioritised making a new record, all he wants to do is work... I don't think Axl doesn't want to work, I just think he hasn't figured out how to get out of his own way. There's no way making a record needs to be this much trouble to pull off! god knows why Axl is holding a new record hostage. The label are definitely going to work with him... unless he's going in with stupid demands, and let's face it, his dipshit management don't know how to negotiate an album release. I think there's a lot of reason why new music isn't happening, and none of them involve Slash and Duffs outside projects.

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The record could be done in the sense of being mastered without Axl wanting to release it, absolutely. It could also be done as in being recorded without Axl and the label coming to agreement on the release plans. There could also be legal barriers between Axl and former members that prevents a release. With Axl, I think there is a multitude of possibilities for why a record isn't coming out, some of which is likely to be close to infathomable to us, and with the complexities that exist (with both the label and the large number of former members, some of which left in bitterness) I find it plausible that there could be more rational legal entanglements that needs to be unravelled. 

And just look at the history. Chinese Democracy, or a version of it, was ready to be released in 2006, yet it didn't happen. Of course that could have been the case in 2010 or 2014 or later for the follow-up, too. These things just happen in the world of Guns N' Roses. 

There's no legal barriers with past CD members preventing this next record, they were employees of GNR. The material they wrote was material owned by GNR, paid for by Axl or the label. Those members get paid their credits but they don't have a say beyond that. Also, if there was some legal issue, unless they really loved the song and maybe wanted to lead with it as the main single; it would be dropped and replaced with a new song.

While it was a band, they were hired. It's like working for a tech company and developing some new gizmo while under contract with them, you might get a credit and some pay but the company owns the idea.

[Sosso]

@Tom2112 That's why Axl and Caram could include Bucket, Brain, Paul Huge and Beltrami/Buckmaster on CD and I have no doubt that they would do it again. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Sosso

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

@Tom2112 That's why Axl and Caram could include Bucket, Brain, Paul Huge and Beltrami/Buckmaster on CD and I have no doubt that they would do it again. 

I'd say it's quite likely that some remnants of Bucket/Huge etc. make it... I mean unless Axl goes in a completely different "organic" direction this time around.... which I'd love, but I don't see him making a raw record (any record) any time soon.

[Sosso]

1 minute ago, Tom2112 said:

I'd say it's quite likely that some remnants of Bucket/Huge etc. make it... I mean unless Axl goes in a completely different "organic" direction this time around.... which I'd love, but I don't see him making a raw record (any record) any time soon.

I think that he would also need the orchestral arrangements from Beltrami and Buckmaster. Those were especially hard to make. Also the synth orchestra from Axl, Dizzy and Chris.

 

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The record could be done in the sense of being mastered without Axl wanting to release it, absolutely. It could also be done as in being recorded without Axl and the label coming to agreement on the release plans. There could also be legal barriers between Axl and former members that prevents a release. With Axl, I think there is a multitude of possibilities for why a record isn't coming out, some of which is likely to be close to infathomable to us, and with the complexities that exist (with both the label and the large number of former members, some of which left in bitterness) I find it plausible that there could be more rational legal entanglements that needs to be unravelled. 

And just look at the history. Chinese Democracy, or a version of it, was ready to be released in 2006, yet it didn't happen. Of course that could have been the case in 2010 or 2014 or later for the follow-up, too. These things just happen in the world of Guns N' Roses. 

I don't say they haven't recorded stuff. They could have recorded material for a dozen records, they could have mixed them, they coud have mastered them, they could have 3 double albums ready to go with liner notes, credits and acknowledgements in the booklet and everything else, but...

...when Axl doesn't want to release them, then most likely, because he feels somehow artistically unsatisfied with the result, don't you agree? Otherwise what reasons do him prevent from releasing it? I mean, there could be a million possibilities. Team Brazil could be terrorists and Axl's being forced to do what ever he does just to terrorize the GNR fanbase or the real Axl Rose has been kidnapped by aliens and they send us a talentless fat guy with short hair who doesn't look or sound like Axl Rose, yet everybody thinks it's Axl  

I don't know shit about what happened behind the scenes but to me, the most likely scenario is that Axl isn't satisfied with the result, and as the director of the whole project, he decided that it needs some changes. I believe he would have released it otherwise. But instead he keeps working and working and working until he thinks it's ready. If it was ready in his mind he wouldn't keep working on it.

You mentioned CD. It was the same I think. Basically, from what we know, the record was ready, and yet it was released years later, highly overdone.

If there were any legal barriers with former members I'm sure Axl has enough material in his vault to just replace these parts with parts other musicians recorded before or after. I don't think that's a plausible reason for a decade full of delays. And I personally don't think the label holds anything back. 

Like I said, I don't know shit, that's just me guessing.

 

[Underhardy]

To OP, slash and Duff are still full time career musicians. Axl obviously isn’t releasing shit because nothing worked out the way he wanted. Obviously, Axl is the most stubborn and insecure top rock star ever 

[Blackstar]

7 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

There's no legal barriers with past CD members preventing this next record, they were employees of GNR. The material they wrote was material owned by GNR, paid for by Axl or the label. Those members get paid their credits but they don't have a say beyond that. Also, if there was some legal issue, unless they really loved the song and maybe wanted to lead with it as the main single; it would be dropped and replaced with a new song.

While it was a band, they were hired. It's like working for a tech company and developing some new gizmo while under contract with them, you might get a credit and some pay but the company owns the idea.

Exactly. I remember Tommy saying in an interview from last year (I think), that he wished he could take a song that he wrote for GN'R, which was never used, back - apparently he has no rights to it.

The question is what's the deal with Slash and Duff now, as we're missing a lot of information about the current status of the band. Probably things are significantly different.

One thing that is safe to assume is that there has been (or is going to be) a renegotiation of the contract with the label - given that the commercial potential of a new album has increased with Slash's return, it would be logical that the band would  try to get a better deal. But who would the signing parties be in the new agreement? Would the GN'R party be just Axl, like in the nu era? Or Slash and Duff, too? From the little official information that has become available, we know that Slash and Duff have returned to the band as partners (although we don't know the details of the current partnership). Moreover, Slash and Duff's post-GN'R history suggests that they're business savvy and have learned very well how to protect their interests. They have their own personal management and attorneys (Slash already had a separate management in the VR era). So I wouldn't be surprised if, for example, there would be a clause in the new recording agreement saying that Slash will hold the rights to whatever he writes for GN'R if Axl doesn't use it.

So, as long as Slash and Duff have secured their interests, and being well aware of what Axl is like, they are probably not too concerned about when new GN'R music comes out, so they continue doing what they've always been doing (working on other projects besides their main thing), and a new GN'R album comes out when it comes out. And Axl continues doing what he's been always doing: taking his time (which can be ages) to decide what he wants to release.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Blackstar
added

[Blackstar]

^^^

In this regard, Axl is the same Axl as he has been in the last 2-3 decades. And Slash and Duff are the same people as they have been in the last couple decades; Duff is the same guy who gave business advice in Playboy, wrote what some people would now call "woke" articles, and at the same time was "punk as fuck." None of them "sold out" with the reunion. We just can't expect these guys to magically transform back to who they were in 1987 (and even think that it's the absence of Izzy and Steven that prevents them from doing so).

Although I must admit that I hoped that Axl would feel more motivated and confident to release music with Slash back - but then we don't know if lack of motivation is the issue. I also hoped that Slash wouldn't prioritize SMKC in 2018; I believe that he did prioritize it (and he said so himself) - but, of course, that doesn't mean that there would've been new GNR had Slash not done that.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Blackstar

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

There's no legal barriers with past CD members preventing this next record, they were employees of GNR. The material they wrote was material owned by GNR, paid for by Axl or the label. Those members get paid their credits but they don't have a say beyond that. Also, if there was some legal issue, unless they really loved the song and maybe wanted to lead with it as the main single; it would be dropped and replaced with a new song.

While it was a band, they were hired. It's like working for a tech company and developing some new gizmo while under contract with them, you might get a credit and some pay but the company owns the idea.

I would think so, but I have never seen their contracts so I can't say for sure. And it's remarkable what kind of legal complications and disputes can arise even when you think you've got it watertight. There are grey lines between having worked on music as part of GN'R and having worked on music outside of GN'R and what constitutes the former? Simply having played a riff to Axl, having worked on a song with Axl, having worked on a song with some other alumni? There are always grey lines. Bring some lawyers into this and you have a threat of legal litigation that even if you feel certain you will win, can alone be a barrier to getting the music out. I am not saying this is a likely scenario and hopefully there are no legal disputes here (and I don't have any reason to think otherwise that I am not disclosing), but just presenting a possible scenario.

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I don't say they haven't recorded stuff. They could have recorded material for a dozen records, they could have mixed them, they coud have mastered them, they could have 3 double albums ready to go with liner notes, credits and acknowledgements in the booklet and everything else, but...

...when Axl doesn't want to release them, then most likely, because he feels somehow artistically unsatisfied with the result, don't you agree? Otherwise what reasons do him prevent from releasing it? I mean, there could be a million possibilities.

Exactly.

Edited July 4, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Padme]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Why are you convinced of this? Is it inconceivable to you that Axl, because of anything from entirely rational reasons (issues with the label, issues with former members, issues with financing) to bizarre reasons (not "feeling" it, to spite someone, because the music scene wasn't complimentary), could be unable/unwilling to release a record in year A but be completely ready to do it in year B? That's exactly what I would expect from him. If anything, considering the saga of Chinese Democracy, we know that Axl works in mysterious ways.

This is exactly the problem. Axl "works in mysterious ways" Well, I had it. I want him to cut that crap! If there are "entirely rational reasons" for the lack of new music, interviews and any kind of information. Well I'd like to hear to those reasons.  We don't have new music. Nor we have any explanation as to why. And I'm not asking Axl to give me The State Of The Union Address. I would like to hear just a few words with basic information. Is it really too much to ask?

[DurhamGirl]

Wow the legal complications as well as the psychological issures  involved are astronomical.  Once upon a time a group of lads just wanted to make music and then...

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Exactly.

Then I go with the alien theory. Having thought about that and considering Axl's transformation, that's the most logical sounding reason 

[MaskingApathy]

20 hours ago, EricA said:

Yes really, it is so frustrating that these 2 musicians are making music

instead of being fed up that it's happening in the "wrong band",  it might be a good time to broaden your musical horizons.

There's so much good new rock music coming out now. This year alone we've gotten great records from Dirty Honey, Mammoth WVH, the Dead Daisies, and others. Me personally I always listen to a lot of SMKC so I'm good with that.

14 hours ago, pugachev said:

I'm the opposite. I'd rather Slash and Duff just leave GNR and either make a new band/reform VR or go do their own solo projects like they were doing. Everyone has had a chance to see this half reunion, and I feel like it's run its course. It would be different if they were committed to new music, but that's never going to happen. Would much rather Slash focus on his own band, which honestly, I felt put on better shows anyway. That won't happen, of course, as Slash/Duff are making waaaay too much money touring in GNR. I don't blame them for that. We would all do the same.

That they did (and continue to do). And I'm sure that Slash sees the difference.

9 hours ago, DurhamGirl said:

I dont mind Duff and Slash doing other things I just wish they would do something with their own band.  

Slash has his own band, it's called SMKC. Regarding GnR remember - "it's just a gig."

9 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Shouldn't Axl being doing something with his own band too? 

Exactly

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

I can't stand their side projects either especially the shit with Myles Kennedy.

Well that's not going away anytime soon.