08/25/21 - San Jose, CA - SAP Center at San Jose

[SoulMonster]

31 minutes ago, jamillos said:

The point is, there always will be people who are happy, and I’d expect a logical tendency for them to be forum members and write about it. You keep putting me in the position of a guy who hasn’t attended a show in a while and just whines because Axl sounds bad on cell-phone recordings. 

My point is that as long as people don't choose to not attend shows because of his voice, then he doesn't need to do anything. If people attending are happy, then all is good.

And I also disagree with your suggestion that hardcore fans are more lenient when it comes to Axl's voice than casuals, I am sure it is the opposite. Casuals don't care to the same extent about "rasp" and how he sings the break in YCBM. It is us hardcore fans who tend to obsess over such details. 

[jamillos]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

My point is that as long as people don't choose to not attend shows because of his voice, then he doesn't need to do anything. If people attending are happy, then all is good.

And I also disagree with your suggestion that hardcore fans are more lenient when it comes to Axl's voice than casuals, I am sure it is the opposite. Casuals don't care to the same extent about "rasp" and how he sings the break in YCBM. It is us hardcore fans who tend to obsess over such details. 

And if people attending are not happy, how will he know. The casuals will always buy tickets and be there for SCOM and NR. 

I didn’t say the hard-cores are more benevolent but it’s more probable that we’ll get to read their reviews than those of casuals, who attend forums statistically way less than the die-hards. 
Anyway, to each their own. One last example: I was at a show. Loved it. They played Better. Sounded weak. So if anyone asked my opinion, I’d prefer them to drop it and play something like Prostitute (clean voice in the first place) instead. Did I enjoy the show? Fuck yeah. Would I like some changes to be made? Right again. 
Peace. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by jamillos

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, jamillos said:

And if people attending are not happy, how will he know. The casuals will always buy tickets and be there for SCOM and NR. 

I think we can get an understanding of how Axl's voice is perceived by people attending the shows by reading reviews in newspapers (and even if they don't include quotes from attendees, usually the reviewer herself will comment upon it). And also by reading reports from people posting at fan forums, because, as I said, I am sure we hardcores are much less forgiving about Axl's voice than causals so if we don't hate on his voice after returning from shows, then surely causals won't either. I don't know if you have paid attention to what people here on this very forum has said about the shows lately? It doesn't support your argument that Axl needs to do something. And that doesn't mean his voice hasn't changed and deteriorated over the years, just that it isn't as bad right now as you make it out to be. If he had continued singing like he did at Hershey, I think you might have had a point.

Edited August 26, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Ratam]

Great they isn't resort to dedicate to Watts one song, cause one song already become in cliché, instead dedicate the whole show was most appropriate.

[WAR41]

3 hours ago, jamillos said:

WTTJ, SCOM, PC – always should be played. The utmost staples. 
NR, KOHD – will always be played whether we like it or not. 
ISE, Mr. B – will always be played, but these ones are the least problematic
ANYTHING from the rest can get alternated. Yes, that includes RQ, YCBM etc. For example, they alternated YCBM with My Michelle in 93 (see Saskatoon), and I don’t remember any articles about how the band lost fans over this change. Same applies to the rest. 

DTJ is the only song that I think could stay or go.  I wish the band would debut Don't Damn Me for the first time.  It isn't a great song, but geez just give us something different.  I feel like it's in the same vein as DTJ, ISE, Mr Brownstone, etc vocally for Axl. 

Totally agree on YCBM. Just let it die. Sure its one of the 'hits', but it sounds like garbage live. 

I know they aren't everyone's favorite songs but I can't understand why we don't get more songs like So Fine, 14 Years & Dust N' Bones (Let Duff sing them), You Ain't the First in place of the covers.  

[Tom2112]

24 minutes ago, WAR41 said:

DTJ is the only song that I think could stay or go.  I wish the band would debut Don't Damn Me for the first time.  It isn't a great song, but geez just give us something different.  I feel like it's in the same vein as DTJ, ISE, Mr Brownstone, etc vocally for Axl. 

Totally agree on YCBM. Just let it die. Sure its one of the 'hits', but it sounds like garbage live. 

I know they aren't everyone's favorite songs but I can't understand why we don't get more songs like So Fine, 14 Years & Dust N' Bones (Let Duff sing them), You Ain't the First in place of the covers.  

When Duff sings people go for a beer break, the people pay to hear Axl sing. They'll put up with Duffs solo spot but he's not getting 2/3 songs on lead vocals. We can say Slash has driven the shows since 2017, but if you are honest and you look at the crowd once Axl goes off stage their attention last about 2 minutes and then they are all wondering A) where's axl, when is he coming back. B) should I just go to the bathroom while nothings happening. We're talking about the large percentage of the audience, obviously there are plenty who are glued to the stage from the moment they enter the gig.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Tom2112

[agustingloger]

20 minutes ago, WAR41 said:

DTJ is the only song that I think could stay or go.  I wish the band would debut Don't Damn Me for the first time.  It isn't a great song, but geez just give us something different.  I feel like it's in the same vein as DTJ, ISE, Mr Brownstone, etc vocally for Axl. 

Totally agree on YCBM. Just let it die. Sure its one of the 'hits', but it sounds like garbage live. 

I know they aren't everyone's favorite songs but I can't understand why we don't get more songs like So Fine, 14 Years & Dust N' Bones (Let Duff sing them), You Ain't the First in place of the covers.  

I can't believe they aren't playing Bad Obsession. It's a great song a "deep cut" maybe and totally works vocally for Axl. He could entirely sing it with his low voice just like the album. And they used to play it a lot back then. I just don't get it

[2020_Intensions]

23 minutes ago, WAR41 said:

DTJ is the only song that I think could stay or go.  I wish the band would debut Don't Damn Me for the first time.  It isn't a great song, but geez just give us something different.  I feel like it's in the same vein as DTJ, ISE, Mr Brownstone, etc vocally for Axl. 

Totally agree on YCBM. Just let it die. Sure its one of the 'hits', but it sounds like garbage live. 

I know they aren't everyone's favorite songs but I can't understand why we don't get more songs like So Fine, 14 Years & Dust N' Bones (Let Duff sing them), You Ain't the First in place of the covers.  

14 Years & Dust N' Bones are obviously not played anymore because Izzy sang those. 

Axl couldn't do Don't Damn Me live back in the 90s why would you think he could do it now?

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

Looking for someone more educated voice-wise than me to fill me in here:

I don't think he can just 'lose' his voice, right? This has to be technique related or something that could be corrected surgically, no? Bruce Springsteen is 70, tours just as extensively, and - while his voice isn't the same as it was in '85 - still sounds more or less like Bruce. James Hetfield went through a period from the mid-90s through the late 2000s where he chose to stop using the 'rasp' in his voice, but has actually shown a marked improvement since then and 2018-2019 were actually some of his best years, vocally. Steven Tyler is 14 years older than Axl and still sounds pretty damn amazing.

I just can't see what could have happened between 2017 and now to cause such a rapid loss to Axl's voice and I also have a hard time believing it can't come back. Houston 2016, Nashville 2017 were just great shows, vocally. They're not *that* long ago.

Because the issue I'm finding with changing the setlists to suit Axl's lower register is that his trademark is his upper register. I'd like to think that the first step would be 'fix the voice' as opposed to change the setlist around the voice.

[WAR41]

5 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

14 Years & Dust N' Bones are obviously not played anymore because Izzy sang those. 

Axl couldn't do Don't Damn Me live back in the 90s why would you think he could do it now?

He never even attempted it though.  It doesn't seem vocally challenging (full disclosure I'm NOT a singer).  I dunno, I'm just fiending something different. 

[WAR41]

8 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

When Duff sings people go for a beer break, the people pay to hear Axl sing. They'll put up with Duffs solo spot but he's not getting 2/3 songs on lead vocals. We can say Slash has driven the shows since 2017, but if you are honest and you look at the crowd once Axl goes off stage their attention last about 2 minutes and then they are all wondering A) where's axl, when is he coming back. B) should I just go to the bathroom while nothings happening. We're talking about the large percentage of the audience, obviously there are plenty who are glued to the stage from the moment they enter the gig.

Fair enough.  I was selfishly thinking of myself (and other hardcore fans). But Axl does sing backing vocals on those songs too.  I'm not suggesting he leave the stage completely, but rather do those songs to give his voice a break and satisfy us maniacs.  Oh and to be clear, I don't want all 4 of those in one set, I was thinking just rotate them in place of the covers. 

[Mr Mini Mite]

5 minutes ago, agustingloger said:

I can't believe they aren't playing Bad Obsession. It's a great song a "deep cut" maybe and totally works vocally for Axl. He could entirely sing it with his low voice just like the album. And they used to play it a lot back then. I just don't get it

Yep, I also don't get it.

Someone posted about Dust N Bones and You ain't the First, I would add Move to the City and If the World... 

[agustingloger]

I think they are not that into this whole thing. It's more a "Job" or something just to grab the cash and that's it .. sadly. I mean do something cool , think togheter as a band what things can be done in order to bring a good show. I'm not expecting Axl to sing like he did 20 years ago and if this the Best he can do, because he seems he's trying , Ok. But rework some songs, change the setlist, etc. His low voice fucking Rocks! I don't understand how he chooses to sound Bad instead of doing songs that Suits his voice

You Ain't the first / Bad Obsession / So Fine/ Down on the farm & Black Leather (I know this last 2 are imposible) / Prostitute / Sorry (He can do it without the falsetto) 

All that songs could totally work 

[blackmore]

The fact that they managed to add 1 new song to the setlist this year shows that they are unbelievable lazy and just go out and play, earn a lot of money from the fans, who are paying for this and don't care about their fanbase at all.

[agustingloger]

15 minutes ago, Mr Mini Mite said:

Yep, I also don't get it.

Someone posted about Dust N Bones and You ain't the First, I would add Move to the City and If the World... 

Move to the city with all the shit like back then would be great. Just listening Live's era Version. Sooo good the trumpets the saxo and the bass just great! 

[adamsapple]

9 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Looking for someone more educated voice-wise than me to fill me in here:

I don't think he can just 'lose' his voice, right? This has to be technique related or something that could be corrected surgically, no? Bruce Springsteen is 70, tours just as extensively, and - while his voice isn't the same as it was in '85 - still sounds more or less like Bruce. James Hetfield went through a period from the mid-90s through the late 2000s where he chose to stop using the 'rasp' in his voice, but has actually shown a marked improvement since then and 2018-2019 were actually some of his best years, vocally. Steven Tyler is 14 years older than Axl and still sounds pretty damn amazing.

I just can't see what could have happened between 2017 and now to cause such a rapid loss to Axl's voice and I also have a hard time believing it can't come back. Houston 2016, Nashville 2017 were just great shows, vocally. They're not *that* long ago.

Because the issue I'm finding with changing the setlists to suit Axl's lower register is that his trademark is his upper register. I'd like to think that the first step would be 'fix the voice' as opposed to change the setlist around the voice.

It's because he doesn't keep his voice in shape and only sings when it's either a) to perform a concert or b) record a song. Usually, when a tour or a leg of a tour begins, he sounds weak and actually ruins his voice right there, singing that material for two hours every other day when not having used the voice since the last tour/recordings. People say he gets better as the tour goes on, but the truth is he just ruins his voice even more. Medication probably plays a role too, I don't know what he's (been) on but it definetely had an effect too.

The voice is basically a muscle, but the body only has so much muscle memory when it comes to singing - use it or lose it, simple as that. You can't expect anyone who didn't even do a daily walk for half a year or longer to run a marathon and score prime results. Whenever his motivation comes from the right place and he actually prepares he sounds much better, stronger and has more stamina and range. Singing is a matter of the soul, you can be the best singer in the world, if you feel like shit, it will show. His voice isn't gone, but for most of the time he is.

[jamillos]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I think we can get an understanding 

Your method of quoting is not exactly fair, is it. See? 
Look, I call this a moot point. Axl's current voice is more or less shit - that's my story and I'm sticking to it, as some guy said. I don't have to attend the concert to be able to evaluate this. You can find people who say otherwise and you can find people who agree, plus anything between. That's what the forum is about. I think we can agree that it would be great if it got as good as possible, especially with the prospect of new music and other exciting things to (hopefully) come. 
Aloha. 

[DTV88]

1 hour ago, WAR41 said:

DTJ is the only song that I think could stay or go. 

Dude, Slash was out of his mind playing DTJ last night! Please do not ever take this song out of the set list 

[DTV88]

42 minutes ago, blackmore said:

The fact that they managed to add 1 new song to the setlist this year shows that they are unbelievable lazy and just go out and play, earn a lot of money from the fans, who are paying for this and don't care about their fanbase at all.

This was my 4th concert since the reunion and was the first time I saw Madagascar and You’re Crazy. Maybe Patience too I’d have to look that one up. Oh, and obviously Absurd. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

39 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

It's because he doesn't keep his voice in shape and only sings when it's either a) to perform a concert or b) record a song. Usually, when a tour or a leg of a tour begins, he sounds weak and actually ruins his voice right there, singing that material for two hours every other day when not having used the voice since the last tour/recordings. People say he gets better as the tour goes on, but the truth is he just ruins his voice even more. Medication probably plays a role too, I don't know what he's (been) on but it definetely had an effect too.

The voice is basically a muscle, but the body only has so much muscle memory when it comes to singing - use it or lose it, simple as that. You can't expect anyone who didn't even do a daily walk for half a year or longer to run a marathon and score prime results. Whenever his motivation comes from the right place and he actually prepares he sounds much better, stronger and has more stamina and range. Singing is a matter of the soul, you can be the best singer in the world, if you feel like shit, it will show. His voice isn't gone, but for most of the time he is.

This makes a lot of sense, as he prepared intensely for AC/DC, and sounded amazing for it.

So basically, it's all down to Axl putting in the work.

[SoulMonster]

21 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Look, I call this a moot point. Axl's current voice is more or less shit - that's my story and I'm sticking to it, as some guy said. 

So you have decided that his voice is so poor that he needs to change things and no amount of testimonials from people actually attending the recent shows is going to change your mind. Gotcha 

[Eric Cantona]

1 hour ago, agustingloger said:

I can't believe they aren't playing Bad Obsession. It's a great song a "deep cut" maybe and totally works vocally for Axl. He could entirely sing it with his low voice just like the album. And they used to play it a lot back then. I just don't get it

Probably because Axl's mom died? If it gets too uncomfortable to sing?

[FabioRoses]

12 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

This makes a lot of sense, as he prepared intensely for AC/DC, and sounded amazing for it.

So basically, it's all down to Axl putting in the work.

I think it's all about the fact he's a baritone singer, and he always sang in a high register. I'm no vocal expert, but Bruce Springsteen, James Hetfield and Steven Tyler were quoted as examples of good aging voices, but they always sang in their own range.

[Martin Riggs]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I am talking about reactions from people here on this forum who have been to recent shows. Have you been to any recent shows? When super critical fans return from shows saying he did well, then it is bound to have been more than good enough to casuals fans who aren't over obsessive over the amount of rasp or that he sings a song exactly as on the records.

My point is that if people attending the shows are happy, then Axl doesn't need to do anything. He sings for them, no one else. 

Your point is assuming that everyone that attends these shows is happy with what they paid for. Not quite sure how you would possibly know this as the vast majority of people attending these shows have never once logged into one of these forums. But if your point is accurate I would assume all the satisfied customers and the positive word of mouth that must be generated because of this must be selling out these new shows in minutes and GNR must still be playing a majority football stadium concert tour without any serious diminishing returns.  That’s great. The new Rolling Stones indeed!! 

[FabioRoses]

2 minutes ago, Martin Riggs said:

Your point is assuming that everyone that attends these shows is happy with what they paid for. Not quite sure how you would possibly know this as the vast majority of people attending these shows have never once logged into one of these forums. But if your point is accurate I would assume all the satisfied customers and the positive word of mouth that must be generated because of this must be selling out these new shows in minutes and GNR must still be playing a majority football stadium concert tour without any serious diminishing returns.  That’s great. The new Rolling Stones indeed!! 

I don't think the lack of sales has anything to do with the overall performance at all. I was at the São Paulo concert in 2016, nobody cared for anything but WTTJ, SCOM and Paradise City, yet everyone there had a great time. It has to do with fear of the COVID-19 and lack of interest, they don't have anything new to create some buzz.