History of Absurd/Silkworms

[ToonGuns]

2 hours ago, Sosso said:

That's also possible but it doesnt makes sense that Brain is the only "associated musician" who has credits.

I know, logic and GNR are two different things... 

I believe the Brain drums are just re-triggered re-tooled from his original recording...

But, if I go with the thinking that the Brain drums are re-recorded, then I wonder if his old contract has expired. I.e. everything he, Bucket, Pitman, Finck etc did when in Guns can officially be credited as "Guns n Roses", but for Absurd they had to bring him back hence the "associated" credit.

Edited August 8, 2021 by ToonGuns
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[LoadedNightraiN]

16 hours ago, Sosso said:

I never saw any video footage from the shows in December 2001.

Because there is none

[life_247]

7 hours ago, LoadedNightraiN said:

Because there is none

I think there is slight confusion around the HoB shows (due to them being on NYE).

There was the first ever new Guns show NYE 2000 into 2001 that there is now a full video of (There previously was just a soundboard until some leaks).

Then at the end of the year (Rio was in the spring) there were 2 more shows including one on NYE 2001 into 2002. I believe I’m correct in saying that there was no footage or leaks or much of anything from these shows.

[jamillos]

Yes, there are some photos but no footage. Afaik the general agreement says it wasn't recorded, but who really knows. Saskatoon 93 only emerged in 2018. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, though. 

[bumcheecksmcghee]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:56 PM, jimisbatman said:

Apparently someone made another remix inserting 'bitch like you' line into Absurd 

Where would one find such skullduggery??

Lol

[jimisbatman]

4 minutes ago, bumcheecksmcghee said:

Where would one find such skullduggery??

Lol

It's on the War Room discord forum, and it's a 3dollarpyrimad remix I think. Hope this helps

[LoadedNightraiN]

11 hours ago, life_247 said:

I think there is slight confusion around the HoB shows (due to them being on NYE).

There was the first ever new Guns show NYE 2000 into 2001 that there is now a full video of (There previously was just a soundboard until some leaks).

Then at the end of the year (Rio was in the spring) there were 2 more shows including one on NYE 2001 into 2002. I believe I’m correct in saying that there was no footage or leaks or much of anything from these shows.

Correct. Those were the shows I way referring to.

[Sonicjam]

It would be cool if the "what am i to do" chorus is added into the absurd single.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Sonicjam

[Carburetta]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:08 PM, LoadedNightraiN said:

Correct. Those were the shows I way referring to.

Rio was in January.

[MJRemastered98]

1 hour ago, 中国民主 said:

Sorry to bump an old thread - but suddenly it came to my mind that once I had a version of silkworms with some kind of orchestral outro. Am I misremembering things?
The versions I have are:

• Version 1, Rough Mixes #1 (03:42)
• "2000 Demo Version" (03:31)
• 2018 Leak with Bumblefoot (03:21)
• A YouTube-Version where someone put the "bitch like you"-chorus into the village-version. Doesn't have the intro. (02:43)
• The YouTube-Version with the intro added (03:28)

If anyone knows about any other versions I'm missing, I'd appreciate a heads up. And yes, I know nobody gives a shit about this anymore
Edit: Found it.

Funnily enough, I have a version that is 4:12 and it sounds like someone mixed the Silkworms leak from the village session and the one from 2018, it has the bitch like you part and it also has some inaudible lyrics in the background (something along the lines of: oh I am I asking you", similar to the live version from 2001.

Also, I just had a nosey with the 2000 demo version and version 1 rough mixes and I think they are the same, the only difference is more seconds of silence, listened to both of them at the same time in Audacity.

[Gordon Comstock]

4 hours ago, 中国民主 said:

a version of silkworms with some kind of orchestral outro

 

That was evader's version that had the outro, it's pretty nice. At one point I put the 'bitch like you' vocals from his version (spliced from rock band stems) over the Village demo and it sounded pretty cool.

[Gordon Comstock]

6 minutes ago, 中国民主 said:

Yeah I always loved that outro, thanks for clarifying.
By the way, do we know where that "bitch like you" chorus take actually originated from? Was that an actual studio take Axl did some time?

 

 

He spliced the 'bitch like you' vocals together from the rock band stems, the same way he did The General. His work was ridiculously impressive, and I still think his version of Silkworms is better than what was eventually released.

[gunsnchalupas]

The final version is terrible with the weird off time vocals. Given that they did a physical release for Absurd and Hard School, I wish they would have chosen to include the different versions of the song as the bonus tracks. They have 70+ minutes to fill on a CD. While we have basically heard how the song progressed throughout the years, it would be cool to hear the different versions of it as the band progressed. 

When judging these songs, you have to judge them by the time period they were originally produced in. Like if an unreleased song by a hair metal band from 1985 leaked, you wouldn't say that it would sound out of place as a single in 2023. Songs like Silkworms, Oh My God, and PRL would have been very strong in the late 90s. The strange choice to do a Cockney accent, and the lyrics being impossible for anyone to play when there is another person within 500 feet of them who might hear it are what hold the song back from being a possible strong rocker single in 1999.

The big issue with the electronic/industrial style GNR songs is that by 1999, most people who grew up with GNR were approaching their 30s. Outside of people who are extremely interested in exploring music, most people are set in their ways by that age. Their musical tastes aren't going to change much. They aren't as likely to discover new or different bands or forms of music. They just want the hits. Songs like Silkworms and OMG were going to reinforce the "It's not real GNR" sentiment among a big chunk of the fan base. Because GNR was seen as part of the old guard in popular music, it's a toss up about whether younger people would accept Axl making topical sounding rock music or whether he would be seen as a poser trying to rip off NIN and Marilyn Manson.

I think this is a big reason why the Greatest Hits and VR did so well in 2004. Everyone who missed GNR was in their 30s and 40s, so they just wanted an oldies band. GNR was old enough for young people that they were considered a meme classic rock band to get into when you wanted to discover rock. The idea that they were no longer trendy and grunge killed hard rock/hair metal was irrelevant. VR wasn't the same as Appetite, but it was close enough to (good) but generic hard rock music that didn't push any boundaries and had a few strong singles/Slash riffs. 

[Stro]

The Silkworms with Bumblefoot that is the version that was remade into Absurd also has the weird off time vocals. It's actually also sped up at the end of the verse to catch up. It's a very strange choice for sure, but was a choice Axl made years before the reunion even happened.

[rumandraisin]

A 2004ish mix would be interesting to hear with Bucket and Robin on lead. 

[beardedranga]

Did the bumblefoot version ever get leaked in its entirety? I think I only ever heard a snippet 😔

[WhazUp]

2 hours ago, beardedranga said:

Did the bumblefoot version ever get leaked in its entirety? I think I only ever heard a snippet 😔

It did, though in the form of the segmented Bumblefoot guitar demo track with the song so it isn't properly mixed - it is fairly similar in structure to the officially released one

[Gordon Comstock]

3 hours ago, beardedranga said:

Did the bumblefoot version ever get leaked in its entirety? I think I only ever heard a snippet 😔

 

The snippet was posted in 2013-14 around the time Blood In The Water and Going Down leaked. There was a 2~ minute teaser with 10-15 second snippets of Absurd, OMG and the remixes. The full demo with Bumblefoot's guitar was leaked in 2018 I think.

[jimisbatman]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:04 AM, 中国民主 said:

"2000 Demo Version" (03:31)

Is the above version from the Village Leaks?

[rumandraisin]

13 hours ago, beardedranga said:

Did the bumblefoot version ever get leaked in its entirety? I think I only ever heard a snippet 😔

The drums are strange on it. Considering they had such tight drums for the 99 Village mix the drums on the 2006 Bumble version are really cut up and seem to be loops copy and pasted. Tbh they sound like garage band drums. Makes you wonder what they'd been doing for the last 5 years if certain tracks still didn't have the drums sorted!?

[jimisbatman]

2 hours ago, 中国民主 said:

Personally I do not know where this version initially surfaced. But when comparing them, I think it's pretty save to say that the version is pretty much identical to the Village leaks version. Maybe a small change in tempo or some more seconds of silence, as MJRemastered98 stated above. 

 

Thanks. Always favoured Silkworms over Absurd, and look forward to checking it out. 

[Amir]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:05 PM, LoadedNightraiN said:

They played it twice at the HOB Vegas 01/02, where people said it was noticably different. No recording has surfaced

Now this is really interesting, I wonder by this point how close it was to the version that leaked in 2018:

Quote

I would have to say that the biggest surprise of the show was “Silk Worms.” They did some serious tweaking with this song and it sounds amazing. The other version just had a bunch of noises that didn't really fit together. This newer version works perfectly and it follows a structure.

Quote

Silkworms was heavy. Axl looked like he was ready to kill someone when he sang this song. I like it now much more than initially. It has a lot of aggression in it but it also has a slow part. I couldn’t hear what Axl was singing softly however. He seemed to get some of the venom back in his voice.

 

Another thing I noticed: on the Village leak, the lyric is clearly "parasitic semen", whereas in every other version since (including HoB '01) it's "parasitic demon".

[luciusfunk]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:02 PM, Gordon Comstock said:

 

The snippet was posted in 2013-14 around the time Blood In The Water and Going Down leaked. There was a 2~ minute teaser with 10-15 second snippets of Absurd, OMG and the remixes. The full demo with Bumblefoot's guitar was leaked in 2018 I think.

I recently found that version of Oh My God on my hard drive. I love it, I hope it sees an official release some day.