Vaccination proof?

[Sisyphus]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

You have? I haven't seen any examples, just lots of accusations from you that you cannot prove. Your claim that Covid19 deaths are inflated is an example of that. but you haven't been willing or able to justify such an accusation the slightest.

Again, let me remind you, you claimed that I "fail to realize that the numbers are being manipulated". The only thing you have given me are unsupported claims. How can you expect me to realize that numbers are manipulated when you can't give me any evidence for them being manipulated? It seems like you have just decided to believe they are.

Simple observation. My opinion is based on critical evaluation of the information I've been receiving from health officials, media, politicians. You're just rehashing the official narrative. If you haven't noticed the unecessary secrecy, lack of transparency, chaotic and convoluted presenetation of stats (fueled by the media) then I don't know, maybe you guys handled it very differently.

I will provide an inexplicable anomaly that happened in my country that proves, in my opinion, the numbers have been exaggerated for a financial gain of public health care. But first someone has to teach me how to post pictures. Haha. And I will implore you to do the same research for your country. I will do that later in the day, I don't have time right now.

 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, gt72 said:

While yes mRNA has been tested for a long time it has never been used in such a wide scale on humans ever.The vaccine may be affective now but none of us know what the long term effects are or if their are any to pretend otherwise is simply wrong as it is not possible.I got vaccinated I have a son who has a rare severe form of epilepsy whom I care for who is considered high risk of complications from covid and I know quite a few people who have died and some who are 3-4 months out and still feel awful.Covid is an awful disease and we seem to have the antidote for it so I went for it but those to dont I understand their position.To me to make someone put something in their body that has not survived the test of time (vaccines normally take 5-10 years to go through rigorous studies /testing ) before they get to general public is wrong in my opinion.

To your first point: I think we all hoped that the vaccines would be more of a barrier to both contracting Covid-19 and to spreading it to others. That being said, they do reduce the chance of passing it own quite a lot, and more importantly, they reduce the likelihood of getting severe symptoms substantially.

As for mRNA and it being untested. Yes, of course we have never injecting hundreds of millions of people with mRNA vaccines before. But mRNA and how it works on living cell has been studied for many decades and we regularly induce living cells to synthesize various forms of mRNA. mRNA as a molecule class is entirely natural and our cells have a few thousand different forms of mRNA molecules in them at any given time.

As for the long-term effects of mRNA vaccines. It is not correct that we don't know anything about the long-term effects. We know a lot about the vaccines molecular effects and from that we can predict long-term effects. Secondly, this was studied in pre-clinical trials on animal models. Lastly, in clinical trials on human we also looked for long-term effects over a 2-month median period. This may sound counter-intuitive, but you can actually study long-term effects over short term period. As an example, you can conclude that a new medicine causes cancer (which would be a long-term effect) by its short-term effect on inducing DNA damage.

You are wrong in suggesting normal vaccine development would contain clinical trials over 5-10 years. The clinical trials for the mRNA vaccines where not substantially different from normal vaccine development and the much shorter development timeline was caused by differences in how the vaccine companies worked with the regulatory bodies and how the latter allowed the former to work more in parallel and not as sequentially as normal.

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Simple observation. My opinion is based on critical evaluation of the information I've been receiving from health officials, media, politicians. You're just rehashing the official narrative. If you haven't noticed the unecessary secrecy, lack of transparency, chaotic and convoluted presenetation of stats (fueled by the media) then I don't know, maybe you guys handled it very differently.

I will provide an inexplicable anomaly that happened in my country that proves, in my opinion, the numbers have been exaggerated for a financial gain of public health care. But first someone has to teach me how to post pictures. Haha. And I will implore you to do the same research for your country. I will do that later in the day, I don't have time right now.

I am not that interested in data that are exclusive to Slovenia  You suggested I had failed to realize that data that were presented were manipulated, and if then you meant data reported in Slovenian media then that is of little interest to me. How could you even expect me to have seen Slovenian data? I thought we were talking about data in scientific papers or as presented by larger and more international institutions, like the WHO or CDC, etc. Something that it would be reasonable to assume I had seen or which would likely have been reported in my national press as a foundation for our restrictions.

So, do you have any evidence that such data have been manipulated or are we only talking about how things have been in Slovenia?

[B5Redeye]

In a way the vaccine could have been a contributing factor in the resurgence of COVID.

I remember walking through Walmart a few months ago and I counted 3 people total wearing masks.

Life went somewhat back to normal after the vaccine came out and it may have been too early.

[tsinindy]

4 minutes ago, B5Redeye said:

In a way the vaccine could have been a contributing factor in the resurgence of COVID.

I remember walking through Walmart a few months ago and I counted 3 people total wearing masks.

Life went somewhat back to normal after the vaccine came out and it may have been too early.

Oh my.....this is the type of high quality critical thinking we come to expect at mygnr.

[tsinindy]

7 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Indoctrination complete. You're a good boy. 

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe you're the one who is being indcotrinated

[B5Redeye]

3 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Oh my.....this is the type of high quality critical thinking we come to expect at mygnr.

You have issue with what I said high and mighty one?

It’s just an opinion…..but…

i experienced it in my own house. The day in question at Walmart I asked my wife if I was crazy thinking people should be wearing masks. At the time I wasn’t vaccinated. She said “no your crazy for not being vaccinated. If you’re vaccinated you don’t need a mask”.

 

[tsinindy]

Well, you never "need" a mask...do you understand the purpose of a mask?  Do you understand that when cases were low then there was even less of a reason to wear a mask b/c there were less cases, meaning fewer people had covid.  I'm not just understanding what your anecdotal story is in relation to the situation.  But, I was in Meijer yesterday and there were people wearing masks and some weren't.  THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!

[B5Redeye]

7 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Well, you never "need" a mask...do you understand the purpose of a mask?  Do you understand that when cases were low then there was even less of a reason to wear a mask b/c there were less cases, meaning fewer people had covid.  I'm not just understanding what your anecdotal story is in relation to the situation.  But, I was in Meijer yesterday and there were people wearing masks and some weren't.  THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!

Lol the world is not coming to an end. 
 

Do I understand? I think so seeing how my wife is “in the business” and deals with COVID patients every day.

Do you understand?

Text from her this morning regarding the hospital situation here in TN. Well I can’t seem to figure out how to post a screenshot.

all ER’s are full in TN and patients are now being diverted out of state.

Edited August 11, 2021 by B5Redeye

[backinblack]

17 minutes ago, B5Redeye said:

You have issue with what I said high and mighty one?

It’s just an opinion…..but…

i experienced it in my own house. The day in question at Walmart I asked my wife if I was crazy thinking people should be wearing masks. At the time I wasn’t vaccinated. She said “no your crazy for not being vaccinated. If you’re vaccinated you don’t need a mask”.

 

sounds like you and your wife both lack critical thinking skills

[Jw224]

People really need need to stop getting their information and opinions from Facebook memes. 

[AppetiteForDestruction]

And people need to stop acting like whiny little bitches.  No one is ever going to agree about this so how about we just drop it and go back to being disappointed about the New/old Nu/old Guns song. This thread is now completely Absurd. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by AppetiteForDestruction

[B5Redeye]

13 minutes ago, backinblack said:

sounds like you and your wife both lack critical thinking skills

Please enlighten me why it is you think that is.

[AppetiteForDestruction]

This is why family gatherings suck, it's either politics or shit about the vaccine. Regardless everyone has a right to an opinion. Doesnt mean we should berate people for this. Agree to disagree, but if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. 

[Sisyphus]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I am not that interested in data that are exclusive to Slovenia  You suggested I had failed to realize that data that were presented were manipulated, and if then you meant data reported in Slovenian media then that is of little interest to me. How could you even expect me to have seen Slovenian data? I thought we were talking about data in scientific papers or as presented by larger and more international institutions, like the WHO or CDC, etc. Something that it would be reasonable to assume I had seen or which would likely have been reported in my national press as a foundation for our restrictions.

So, do you have any evidence that such data have been manipulated or are we only talking about how things have been in Slovenia?

Well, excuse me. I think you're just not interested in any info that would challenge your belief system. The info I was refering to would be an interesting starting point for you or anyone else to do their own research in regards to their own country. But if this is of such insignificance to you, why waste my time.

No, I don't have proof because every scientist alleging that things aren't what they seem has been ostracised, scrutinized and a target of character assassination with some of them losing their jobs and getting sued.

With Google, Facebook and YouTube invested fully in censorship what platform do non-conformists have? You still think you have the upper hand because you're quoting WHO or CDC. The fish stinks from the head. 

Peace out.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[AppetiteForDestruction]

I dont share opinions anymore for this very reason. 

 

Dammed if you do and dont.

4 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Well, excuse me. I think you're just not interested in any info that would challenge your belief system. The info I was refering to would be an interesting starting point for you or anyone else to do their own research in regards to their own country. But if this is of such insignificance to you, why waste my time.

No, I don't have proof because every scientist alleging that things aren't what they seem has been ostracised, scrutinized and a target of character assassination with people losing jobs and getting sued.

With Google, Facebook and YouTube invested fully in censorship what platform do non-conformists have? You still think you have the upper hand because you're quoting WHO or CDC. The fish stinks from the head. 

Peace out.

In the words of Daniel tiger" take a deep breath and count to four"

Edited August 11, 2021 by AppetiteForDestruction

[Sisyphus]

1 hour ago, tsinindy said:

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe you're the one who is being indcotrinated

Hardly.  Because I don't follow the anti-covid propaganda. Like at all. I'm not invested in any conspiracy theory. I don't think they're trying to kill us or insert us with nano technology, 5G mumbo jumbo, Bill Gates peeking into my brain. I don't believe any of that stuff. I'm not even an anti-vaxxer. 

I'm just a guy with an opinion.  And things don't add up. 

And I'd love to be wrong. I'd love it if this was all just an unfortunate mix of disinformation and we're heading towards a more positive future. But I fear a lot of you guys will be seriously disappointed come winter.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[tsinindy]

8 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Hardly.  Because I don't follow the anti-covid propaganda. Like at all. I'm not invested in any conspiracy theory. I don't think they're trying to kill us or insert us with nano technology, 5G mumbo jumbo, Bill Gates peeking into my brain. I don't believe any of that stuff. I'm not even an anti-vaxxer. 

I'm just a guy with an opinion.  And things don't add up. 

And I'd love to be wrong. I'd love it if this was all just an unfortunate mix of disinformation and we're heading towards a more positive future. But I fear a lot of you guys will be seriously disappointed come winter.

 

I'll bite..."dissapointed come winter"....what? 

Edit:  What or why would we be dissapointed come winter?  And to add on all your posts tend to hint a things but you don't elaborate or explain, so its kinda hard to understand exactly what you are trying to say b/c there's a lot of implied statements such as this. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tsinindy

[Sisyphus]

16 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

I'll bite..."dissapointed come winter"....what? 

Edit:  What or why would we be dissapointed come winter?  And to add on all your posts tend to hint a things but you don't elaborate or explain, so its kinda hard to understand exactly what you are trying to say b/c there's a lot of implied statements such as this. 

Meaning that they're not letting you, me or anyone else off the hook. And there are many more letters in the Greek alphabet.  

[tsinindy]

Just now, Sisyphus said:

Meaning that they're not letting you, me or anyone else off the hook. And there are many more letters in the Greek alphabet.  

Uh, off the hook?  Off the Hook for what?  I'm not on the hook for anything that I'm aware of.  Again, vague statements and irrelevant words to the conversation?  I offered an ear, you choose this.  Well done. 

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Well, excuse me. I think you're just not interested in any info that would challenge your belief system. The info I was refering to would be an interesting starting point for you or anyone else to do their own research in regards to their own country. But if this is of such insignificance to you, why waste my time.

No, I don't have proof because every scientist alleging that things aren't what they seem has been ostracised, scrutinized and a target of character assassination with some of them losing their jobs and getting sued.

With Google, Facebook and YouTube invested fully in censorship what platform do non-conformists have? You still think you have the upper hand because you're quoting WHO or CDC. The fish stinks from the head. 

Peace out.

Oh, I am VERY interested in examples of data being manipulated to support restrictions, face mask wearing and vaccine updake. I haven't seen any, though, and if all you've got are some examples from Slovenia, then that isn't as interesting, naturally.

I am not claiming that all data presented is good. Media often have their own biases and will occasionally present data that supports their agenda. That's common in the USA which has become so terrible divided. I am sure I could examples of the same in Norwegian media, and that you can show me examples from Slovenian media.

But you started this by suggested I was gullibly following a specific narrative pushed upon me through, including, manipulates statistics. And I haven't seen any evidence of that...at all. And you have also not been able to support it. 

To me it seems you start with the conclusion: That "someone" is censoring social platforms, scientists, media. And from this assumption you conclude that then data must be manipulated, too. It is sort of going the wrong way about it. You should start with facts, not assumptions, and then build conclusions. And I haven't seen any facts suggesting a systematic manipulation of data by organizations like CDC and the WHO, etc. 

You claim you are not a conspiracy theorist yet you repeatedly come back to describing a global effort to quell dissenting voices so as to present a false narrative. Sorry, but that IS a conspiracy. It is very much the definition of it.

Edited August 11, 2021 by SoulMonster

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, B5Redeye said:

You have issue with what I said high and mighty one?

It’s just an opinion…..but…

i experienced it in my own house. The day in question at Walmart I asked my wife if I was crazy thinking people should be wearing masks. At the time I wasn’t vaccinated. She said “no your crazy for not being vaccinated. If you’re vaccinated you don’t need a mask”.

I don't have an issue with what you said. I think it is a common observation that many people thought being vaccinated meant they could stop with social distancing. This also coincided with people experiencing "restriction fatigue", so people stopped followed restrictions because of that, too. And yes, I agree with you, this is likely to be one of the reasons some countries are experience an resurgence of cases (together with other factors like new variants, seasonal effects etc). 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Sisyphus said:

Meaning that they're not letting you, me or anyone else off the hook. And there are many more letters in the Greek alphabet.  

As I mentioned earlier, here in Norway we are already loosening up on restrictions. Kids can go to school like normal, we don't have to wear masks, etc. Hopefully by winter things will be pretty normal. Naturally, if the cases flare up again we will have to tighten stuff, but generally speaking the trend in Norway, like most other countries, is really positive with both the number of cases dropping, and more importantly less hospitalizations and deaths.

Thinking that politicians can somehow keep restrictions in effect after the the pandemic is over, is kind of weird to me. Are you not living in a democracy? Do you not choose your leaders? 

[RussTCB]

Here's one thing we can all agree on: none of this would be happening if GN'R hadn't broken the laws of the universe and released music. 

[Ratam]

Apparently here the promotors are optimists, because Kiss will be the first band scheduled to April to they Farewell tour.