Vaccination proof?

[Sisyphus]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, I am VERY interested in examples of data being manipulated to support restrictions, face mask wearing and vaccine updake. I haven't seen any, though, and if all you've got are some examples from Slovenia, then that isn't as interesting, naturally.

I am not claiming that all data presented is good. Media often have their own biases and will occasionally present data that supports their agenda. That's common in the USA which has become so terrible divided. I am sure I could examples of the same in Norwegian media, and that you can show me examples from Slovenian media.

But you started this by suggested I was gullibly following a specific narrative pushed upon me through, including, manipulates statistics. And I haven't seen any evidence of that...at all. And you have also not been able to support it. 

To me it seems you start with the conclusion: That "someone" is censoring social platforms, scientists, media. And from this assumption you conclude that then data must be manipulated, too. It is sort of going the wrong way about it. You should start with facts, not assumptions, and then build conclusions. And I haven't seen any facts suggesting a systematic manipulation of data by organizations like CDC and the WHO, etc. 

You claim you are not a conspiracy theorist yet you repeatedly come back to describing a global effort to quell dissenting voices so as to present a false narrative. Sorry, but that IS a conspiracy. It is very much the definition of it.

You're not even trying to comprehend what I'm saying. Not even trying. I've told you why it is impossible to obtain evidence why the narrative is false. You keep talking about "facts" but the only "facts" that you presented are purported by the same institutions that are running the show. What the fuck are they supposed to say? 

Are you saying Google, Facebook and YouTube aren't censoring covid related content? 

Talk about beating a dead horse.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

You're not even trying to comprehend what I'm saying. Not even trying. I've told you why it is impossible to obtain evidence why the narrative is false. You keep talking about "facts" but the only "facts" that you presented are purported by the same institutions that are running the show. What the fuck are they supposed to say? 

Are you saying Google, Facebook and YouTube aren't censoring covid related content? 

Talk about beating a dead horse.

You are the one claiming statistics is being manipulated, the onus is on you to prove you are correct, not on me to prove you aren't. 

I have no idea if Google, Facebook and YouTube are censoring covid-19 related content, but hopefully they will make clearly false content as false. But I don't know. Regardless, these are private companies and can do what they want. They are not under governmental control and anyone who gets their facts from social media needs to wake up. 

[GnR Chris]

7 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Yes, the flu virtually disappeared. Because everything is covid-19 these days. The generalization inflated covid-19 number to ridiculous heights.

 

Or ... hear me out ... social distancing and mask mandates during flu season actually helped stem the spread of the flu. Again, I use anecdotal evidence. In Chicago, there was no indoor dining all winter and into early spring. Bars were closed. There were no large gatherings. Many were working from home. Kids were being home-schooled. So, take all this into account, and then ask yourself why wasn't the flu as rampant this past season? You're inadvertently pointing out that social distancing and mask mandates work.

[Sisyphus]

35 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are the one claiming statistics is being manipulated, the onus is on you to prove you are correct, not on me to prove you aren't. 

I have no idea if Google, Facebook and YouTube are censoring covid-19 related content, but hopefully they will make clearly false content as false. But I don't know. Regardless, these are private companies and can do what they want. They are not under governmental control and anyone who gets their facts from social media needs to wake up. 

You have no idea? Back to the drawing board then.

I have every reason to believe the numbers were/are manipulated. I have expressed my reasons thoroughly. That's my opinon based on observation and the obvious mishandling of the pandemic. 

As far as I understand, you're a firm believer in whatever WHO, CDC and the likes tell you it's real. Word for word. Cool. No beef. But I don't see it that way. There's too much stuff sticking out. And just becuase I can't provide evidence from a health care authority (which is impossible by the way due to reasons already explained) it doesn't make my opinion less valid than yours because you're just going by what the establishment is telling you. 

And I genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that neither WHO nor CDC, let alone the pharmaceutical industry, has my best interests at heart. I'm not saying they're trying to kill me, I'm not saying they're trying to poison me, I'm not saying they're trying to put me under surveillance. I just think the whole thing reeks.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[GnR Chris]

4 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

 

No, I don't have proof because every scientist alleging that things aren't what they seem has been ostracised, scrutinized and a target of character assassination with some of them losing their jobs and getting sued.

 

Can you please cite some sources for this info? You keep making claims without sources. Which scientists were ostracized for having opposing viewpoints?

[Carlson-online]

Statistics are most definitely shown to people in certain ways to suit whatever point they are trying to make.

The raw figures are generally accurate, but they are displayed on misleading graphs or tables.

good example:

In the Uk, cases are given my council district “per 100,000”. Which means, and there’s a lot of places that meet this criterea, if you had an area with 20 infect people, and there were 1000 people living there, they would show “200” on the table. The same is true the other way of course but for the majority of the population they just see the number 200 and make their own conclusion they it’s a big and scary number.

a better way of presenting it would be % of the population infected, or % of positive tests, but those numbers would be “smaller”

 

 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Sisyphus said:

You have no idea? Back to the drawing board then.

I have every reason to believe the numbers were/are manipulated. I have expressed my reasons thoroughly. That's my opinon based on observation and the obvious mishandling of the pandemic. 

As far as I understand, you're a firm believer in whatever WHO, CDC and the likes tell you it's real. Word for word. Cool. No beef. But I don't see it that way. There's too much stuff sticking out. And just becuase I can't provide sufficient evidence it doesn't make my opinion less valid than yours because you're just going by what the establishment is telling you. 

My opinion regarding Covid-19 is science-driven. I actually read quite a bit of the research papers on Covid-19. I have never seen any official data that are obviously manipulated. 

You claim they are, yet cannot give any evidence and resorts to vague sentences like "too much stuff sticking out". What exactly have you "observed"? I expect nothing. 

Based on this I don't know if your position really is valid. As I suggested before, you seem to have started this with the conclusion that things are fishy and stick with that conclusion despite not being able to show any actual evidence. 

[Sisyphus]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

My opinion regarding Covid-19 is science-driven. I actually read quite a bit of the research papers on Covid-19. I have never seen any official data that are obviously manipulated. 

You claim they are, yet cannot give any evidence and resorts to vague sentences like "too much stuff sticking out". What exactly have you "observed"? I expect nothing. 

Based on this I don't know if your position really is valid. As I suggested before, you seem to have started this with the conclusion that things are fishy and stick with that conclusion despite not being able to show any actual evidence. 

Science driven. Hah. Cool. Keep on preaching.

[Carlson-online]

Also, some governments have full taken advantage of the medical situation to either siphon off public funds to their mates, or to push their agendas through without scrutiny using their newly found emergency powers

[Sisyphus]

13 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Can you please cite some sources for this info? You keep making claims without sources. Which scientists were ostracized for having opposing viewpoints?

Pretty much everyone. And I mean everyone. Not just ostracised but virtually assassinated by the mainstream media, the politicians, the health officials. Some were forced to apologise, some will end up in court, some will lose their job. Google it.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[tsinindy]

26 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Pretty much everyone. And I mean everyone. Not just ostracised but virtually assissaned by the mainstream media, the politicians, the health officials. Some were forced to apologise, some will end up in court, some will lose their job. Google it.

ROFL, sorry that's the bet I got for you. 

 

EDIT:  Actually, I am going to assume you believe all this proof is out there right next to all the proof that Trump won the election, its all hidden on purpose and shit. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by tsinindy

[GnR Chris]

12 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Pretty much everyone. And I mean everyone. Not just ostracised but virtually assassinated by the mainstream media, the politicians, the health officials. Some were forced to apologise, some will end up in court, some will lose their job. Google it.

Do you see why it's difficult to have an honest conversation though? You're reverting back to "google it" and "I've seen things," whereas at least I sourced my information earlier in the thread.

I can tell you I've seen youtube videos of "doctors" shared among some conservative friends early on in the pandemic. The doctors I've seen who refute claims of vaccine effectiveness or the severity of coronavirus are not "canceled" for having an opposing views. They end up like the St. Louis chiropractor who knows nothing about virology. All to push his supplements while espousing the harm of covid-19 vaccines.

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/creve-coeur-chiropractor-scammed-consumers-with-false-covid-cure-claims-ftc-says/article_d6b3cc12-c8a9-5634-83d2-7b20fb65e046.html

[Coma16]

In Ontario, 100% in ICU due to Covid-19 are partially/fully vaccinated. 0% are unvaxxed.

In hospital due to covid (excluding icu)

42% Unvaxxed vs 58% Vaxxed (partial/full)

 

Edit- quality of above above numbers will continue to improve as hospitals continue to submit data.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Coma16

[GnR Chris]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

In Ontario, 100% in ICU due to Covid-19 are partially/fully vaccinated. 0% are unvaxxed.

In hospital due to covid (excluding icu)

42% Unvaxxed vs 58% Vaxxed (partial/full)

 

Edit- quality of above above numbers will continue to improve as hospitals continue to submit data.

Source?

This site shows different:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

This article also conflicts with your numbers:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/experts-warn-that-new-covid-19-data-on-vaccination-status-may-not-show-whole-picture-1.5541781

[Coma16]

10 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Source?

This site shows different:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

This article also conflicts with your numbers:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/experts-warn-that-new-covid-19-data-on-vaccination-status-may-not-show-whole-picture-1.5541781

That government site does not conflict as thats exactly where I got the info. You just need to scroll down a little and look at the graphs. The numbers don't seem to represent everyone, just the ones they have the info on (hence my immediate edit)

[Sisyphus]

14 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Source?

This site shows different:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

This article also conflicts with your numbers:

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/experts-warn-that-new-covid-19-data-on-vaccination-status-may-not-show-whole-picture-1.5541781

Now I see why you have trouble finding relevant info. Sorry, couldn't resist. 

[GnR Chris]

46 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

That government site does not conflict as thats exactly where I got the info. You just need to scroll down a little and look at the graphs. The numbers don't seem to represent everyone, just the ones they have the info on (hence my immediate edit)

Duh, I see that now. You listed partial and full vaccinations together in your percentage. Missed that. 

[Coma16]

5 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Duh, I see that now. You listed partial and full vaccinations together in your percentage. Missed that. 

And its an extremely small sample size. Would have been more useful had they had a section on the pie an "undetermined" or something imo

[cqleonardo]

21 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

And just becuase I can't provide evidence from a health care authority (which is impossible by the way due to reasons already explained) it doesn't make my opinion less valid than yours because you're just going by what the establishment is telling you. 

I read that before... about 9/11, about aliens, abou McCartney being dead since the 60s.... 

[gt72]

Dead and Company just announced you will have to prove vaccination status or a negative covid test taken 48 hours prior to any show your attending on their tour.Also pit ga is open only to those who are vaccinated 

[tsinindy]

1 hour ago, gt72 said:

Dead and Company just announced you will have to prove vaccination status or a negative covid test taken 48 hours prior to any show your attending on their tour.Also pit ga is open only to those who are vaccinated 

Question...and I'm not trolling.  Are they giving a refund if you purchased your ticket prior to this announcement b/c they have changed the terms of the agreement after the fact.  So, they have to give a refund I believe if someone requests OR if someone isn't vaccinated and tests positive at time of entry as the ticket was not sold on that condition. 

[gt72]

15 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Question...and I'm not trolling.  Are they giving a refund if you purchased your ticket prior to this announcement b/c they have changed the terms of the agreement after the fact.  So, they have to give a refund I believe if someone requests OR if someone isn't vaccinated and tests positive at time of entry as the ticket was not sold on that condition. 

I think that’s a great question I don’t know the answer to that.I seen an article on it this morning and in it their was no mention of refunds 

[RussTCB]

16 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Question...and I'm not trolling.  Are they giving a refund if you purchased your ticket prior to this announcement b/c they have changed the terms of the agreement after the fact.  So, they have to give a refund I believe if someone requests OR if someone isn't vaccinated and tests positive at time of entry as the ticket was not sold on that condition. 

One of my friends follows them on social media so their post about this popped up on my feed last night. 

I took a look at the comments and a few people asked the same question. They got ANNIHILATED of course for daring to ask such a question. 

Personally, I think it's a very valid question regardless of your stance on anything to do with vaccination. Like you said, they should at least offer refunds due to the fact that this was not a condition agreed to when the tickets were purchased. 

[Dazey]

22 hours ago, Sisyphus said:

Science driven. Hah. Cool. Keep on preaching.

 

22 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

My opinion regarding Covid-19 is science-driven. I actually read quite a bit of the research papers on Covid-19. I have never seen any official data that are obviously manipulated. 

You claim they are, yet cannot give any evidence and resorts to vague sentences like "too much stuff sticking out". What exactly have you "observed"? I expect nothing. 

Based on this I don't know if your position really is valid. As I suggested before, you seem to have started this with the conclusion that things are fishy and stick with that conclusion despite not being able to show any actual evidence. 

Remind us what your line of work is again @SoulMonster  😂

[Flayer]

What was I saying two days ago?
"Herd immunity is not a possibility" because the Delta variant "still infects vaccinated individuals".  Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, says there is nothing "the UK can do to stop the emergence of new variants".

Edited August 12, 2021 by Flayer