Vaccination proof?

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, Flayer said:

What was I saying two days ago?
"Herd immunity is not a possibility" because the Delta variant "still infects vaccinated individuals".  Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, says there is nothing "the UK can do to stop the emergence of new variants".

The wildtype virus strain can also infect vaccinated people, so a bit sloppy there the good professor. 

[SoulMonster]

22 minutes ago, Dazey said:

 

Remind us what your line of work is again @SoulMonster  😂

I have found that if I do, I become "the enemy". 

Btw, I have come to think that most anti-vaxxers doesn't really believe the stuff they say about the vaccines not being safe despite all our data, or that they contain chips, or that they make you infertile, or that they haven't been thoroughly tested, or that Bill Gates is behind it, or that the vaccines are more dangerous than the disease. Some are probably impaired enough but most of them just claim all this stuff because they are afraid of needles and don't want to admit it. 

[Gordon Comstock]

For the record, I have no problem admitting I have a fear of needles

I've had my other vaccinations throughout my life though. But like I've said before, there are very reasonable concerns over the covid vaccines. (Why was oldest goat's covid poll locked/deleted a while ago, btw?)

[tsinindy]

26 minutes ago, Flayer said:

What was I saying two days ago?
"Herd immunity is not a possibility" because the Delta variant "still infects vaccinated individuals".  Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, says there is nothing "the UK can do to stop the emergence of new variants".

But, herd immunity was possible before the variant existed and could be achieved again with a booster that was highly successful at preventing infection of the delta variant.   This was literally stated back when the push for vaccination began, the longer we went with less people getting vaccinated, the more likely a variant would arise that would prevent herd immunity. 

[Coma16]

Why is Australia only at like 15% fully vaccinated? Did their government fumble the ball in being able to secure doses or is the country full of uneducated covidiot antivaxxers? I thought they were doing one of the best, pre-vaccine, compared to other counties.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Coma16

[Top-Hatted One]

3 hours ago, Flayer said:

What was I saying two days ago?
"Herd immunity is not a possibility" because the Delta variant "still infects vaccinated individuals".  Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, says there is nothing "the UK can do to stop the emergence of new variants".

Exactly why months ago when I was on the fence and they started talking about a 3rd vax and yearly boosters like the flu shot I blew it off completely. The COVID outcome is Just not worth the risk of injecting something not yet approved by the FDA

[Martin Riggs]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

Why is Australia only at like 15% fully vaccinated? Did their government fumble the ball in being able to secure doses or is the country full of uneducated covidiot antivaxxers? I thought they were doing one of the best, pre-vaccine, compared to other counties.

I’m not sure, but I do know they have sent out their military to enforce lockdowns. I used to have a fairly high opinion of the place in general…

[fabrph5]

I have NO issue with this at all.  People can make their choice, and respect the choice of others.  If a venue wants proof, i pull out my phone and show them.  No issues here

[Top-Hatted One]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:15 AM, Oldest Goat said:

Some causes for my paranoia:

- For very good reason I have distrust for Big Pharma and with these vaccines they have been granted even more legal protection than usual, which I disapprove of and find highly suspicious. They should put their money where their mouth is and be stripped of this extraordinary protection, if these vaccines really are so wonderful, at least when they're approved by the FDA.

- The vaccines aren't approved by the FDA they were pushed through as an emergency measure. They were rushed albeit with much more focus/resources than usual.

- J&J are allowed to continue and thrive free from criticism after what they did to America regarding the opioid crisis. 

- Human history. Human nature.

- The situation has a shroud of hubris, arrogance, ignorance, coercion, animosity, divisiveness and tribalism actively striving to prevent discussion and questioning. That doesn't bode well.

However, after much deliberation I recently decided I'll be getting the vaccine. Mainly because I spoke to my great doctor about all this. I trust her professional opinion which is that the vaccine(it's Pfizer here) is safe and that I should get it as I have asthma. She isn't the type to mindlessly push medications, good bedside manner. The ideal doctor really. Also, being coerced by the inevitable restrictions in daily life if I don't get it.

Good post. I have asthma too albeit mild. Just trying to ride this out. Even if it’s gonna be a while longer. 2022, 2023 whatever 

[Top-Hatted One]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:26 AM, G O A T said:

Nice to see an artist doing the right thing. As he says we're all in this together and there's crew members who need to support their families etc. but if there's one thing we've learned, it's that nothing is more important than health. There's still so much we don't know about the virus and it's long term side effects on the heart, lungs and the brain.

Fred Durst: Even if the performers, crews, staff, and promoters do their best to ensure safety on and behind the stage, that doesn't ensure the safety of the audience as a whole. We are all in this together, and we all — individually and as a whole — have to make our best efforts to be as responsible and proactive as possible moving forward to combat and stop spreading COVID."

How’s your attendance and mercy sales these days for Likp Bizkit?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Top-Hatted One

[Top-Hatted One]

On 8/11/2021 at 3:55 AM, invisible_rose said:

1% fatality is high! Influenza is around 0.1% by comparison...

Yea it wipes out the elderly and at a vast rate. As well as the fast food grubhub/ubereats generation to an extent 

[Top-Hatted One]

Not talking about everyone but I think there’s a significant amount of infringing  on the rights of the unvaccinated are doing it because they are insecure and looking for validation for their decision to jump right in as directed in getting the vaccine. They don’t care that some people are holding off for a multitude of PERSONAL reasons.

I’m seeing a lot of buyers remorse & regret over something that is far from a guarantee 

[tsinindy]

4 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Not talking about everyone but I think there’s a significant amount of infringing  on the rights of the unvaccinated are doing it because they are insecure and looking for validation for their decision to jump right in as directed in getting the vaccine. They don’t care that some people are holding off for a multitude of PERSONAL reasons.

I’m seeing a lot of buyers remorse & regret over something that is far from a guarantee 

LOL, you are projecting clearly.  I do not know anyone who has gotten vaccinated who has any regrets about it.  Other than one person I know who did Johnson and Johnson now wishes they had done Pfizer or Moderna.  In a discussion like this it is always good to generalize and act like you know what people are thinking to support your viewpoiont.  And, while I am saying this, it is my firm belief that people should have a right to choose to get vaccinated or not.  This is a personal decision and I respect that.  But, you should also respect that I may not think that is the best decision.  I've had great dicsussions with people who are vaccinated and probably will not get vaccinated, and I respect what they are thinking, though I still think that isn't the best decision for MOST of them. 

[Top-Hatted One]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:54 AM, Stay.Of.Execution said:

They'll also be the first ones to go shoot somebody probably.

Damn you guys really are triggered!

[double talkin jive mfkr]

there were a few worst topics going back but this one wins it 

[Pedrolg]

Of course there are reasonable concerns over the vaccines. In fact, there are reasonable concerns over the use of advil or paracetamol. There are reasonable concerns over the comsumption of alcohol. The main thing here is that the benefits at this point when it comes to covid vaccines outweight the potential risks by so much that there shouldn't be a debate. In Brazil for instance, around 97% of deaths right now are in unvaccinated people. This seems to be a trend in most places where vaccination is underway.

Covid is not mild respiratory disease. The death rate of 1% thrown around here is a rough estimate. Covid has death rates that vary from less than 1% to upwards of 8% depending on the dominant variant, population age, each countries response to it and, wait for it... availability of vaccines.  

The disease is evolving and adapting to us, becoming more transmissible yet, apparently, more dangerous, with higher viral loads. At this point it could conceivably evolve into deadlier and deadlier strains, rendering current treatments and vaccines useless - there are some scientists in England that actually predict this is happening. Even if the death toll remains at 1%, the impact of the ongoing pandemic is catastrophic, it's weight on health systems and economic consequences becoming a burden for generations.

As I said before, I don't think anybody here wants to go out of their way to attack and insult other members. At the same time it is really hard to supress how I feel on this matter. There isn't a single rational argument that justifies refusing vaccines at this point. Sweden gets thrown around. It's a failure, a deathzone when compared to it's neighbours and a country that has disgraceful numbers for it's hdi and social and economic standing. Vaccines are proven to immensely help in death prevention ate every single country they have been deployed so far.

I understand that nobody should be objectively forced to inject a substance in their bodies against the will, but restrictions are the way forward. I hate to say this but I hope they get severe to the point where the only place antivaxxers can linger are antivaxxers homes. Wanting to remain unvaccinated and go to events like huge rock concerts is absolutely selfish and insane.

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

The COVID outcome is Just not worth the risk of injecting something not yet approved by the FDA

It shouldn't matter whether a vaccine has been approved through the normal process of development or been given an emergency use authorization as long as it has gone through the same clinical trials and been found to be safe and efficient. And this is the case with the mRNA vaccines and I can link you to the peer-reviewed publications from clinical phase 3 trials of both Pfizer and Moderna if you want to. In addition to this, since been given EUA, the vaccines have been administered to 4.6 billion of people around the world with minimal side effects and a proven efficacy. 

So yeah, it is worth the risk.

Edited August 13, 2021 by SoulMonster

[WhazUp]

8 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Exactly why months ago when I was on the fence and they started talking about a 3rd vax and yearly boosters like the flu shot I blew it off completely. The COVID outcome is Just not worth the risk of injecting something not yet approved by the FDA

I just find it ironic that people are refusing the vaccines because "we don't know the long term effects of it yet" yet are so willing to get infected by a virus that already has exponentially proven to have way more long term effects AND deaths

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I just find it ironic that people are refusing the vaccines because "we don't know the long term effects of it yet" yet are so willing to get infected by a virus that already has exponentially proven to have way more long term effects AND deaths

Exactly.

By the way, the argument that "we don't know the long term effects of the vaccines" isn't entirely right. We know a LOT about their long term effects (from animal studies, molecular modelling, human trials) and there is no scientific reason to believe there are any. These vaccines aren't like introducing a novel compound into our cells, it is just freaking RNA that is injected. There is nothing alien about it. It causes the expression of a viral spike protein which results in immunization. 

 

[SoulMonster]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:01 PM, Coma16 said:

I heard that Delta is hitting vaccinated people harder in the UK compared to unvaxxed. 

Just so there's no confusion: The vaccines offer protection against the Delta strain. 

The reason why some countries may present data with more vaccinated being admitted to hospitals than unvaccinated, is not because being unvaccinated offers more protection, but because the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated has shifted. When no one is vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will naturally be unvaccinated; and equally obvious, when everybody is vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated too.  At some point after vaccines have started to be administered there must be a shift when it goes from mainly being unvaccinated that are admitted to mainly being vaccinated.  Anti-vaxxers have used this argument by pointing to Israel and saying, "Look, most of people in the hospitals in Israel are vaccinated! The vaccines don't work!", while forgetting to take into account that the majority of people in Israel are vaccinated and hence it is only natural that it has shifted there and that vaccinated people now make up the majority. Here's another thing to consider, if the vaccines offered no protection you would expect the hospitalizations to be identical (more or less) to the vaccinations percentage in society. So if 50% where vaccinated, you would expect 50% of those admitted to be vaccinated - if the vaccines didn't work at all. But that this is not what we are seeing, we are consistently seeing that vaccinated people make up a smaller fraction of hospitalizations compared to vaccination update in society. That the fraction of those admitted who are vaccinated are lower than the fraction that are vaccinated in society, is direct evidence for vaccination offering protection and the difference is a metric for the vaccines' efficacy.

Edited August 13, 2021 by SoulMonster

[invisible_rose]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Just so there's no confusion: The vaccines offer protection against the Delta strain. 

The reason why some countries may present data with more vaccinated being admitted to hospitals than unvaccinated, is not because being unvaccinated offers more protection, but because the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated has shifted. When no one is vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will naturally be unvaccinated; and equally obvious, when everybody is vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated too.  At some point after vaccines have started to be administered there must be a shift when it goes from mainly being unvaccinated that are admitted to mainly being vaccinated.  Anti-vaxxers have used this argument by pointing to Israel and saying, "Look, most of people in the hospitals in Israel are vaccinated! The vaccines don't work!", while forgetting to take into account that the majority of people in Israel are vaccinated and hence it is only natural that it has shifted there and that vaccinated people now make up the majority. Here's another thing to consider, if the vaccines offered no protection you would expect the hospitalizations to be identical (more or less) to the vaccinations percentage in society. So if 50% where vaccinated, you would expect 50% of those admitted to be vaccinated - if the vaccines didn't work at all. But that this is not what we are seeing, we are consistently seeing that vaccinated people make up a smaller fraction of hospitalizations compared to vaccination update in society. That the fraction of those admitted who are vaccinated are lower than the fraction that are vaccinated in society, is direct evidence for vaccination offering protection and the difference is a metric for the vaccines' efficacy.

I already explained that to him dude. He can't grasp the concept. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by downzy
Removed personal insult

[Dazey]

14 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I have found that if I do, I become "the enemy". 

I think in this instance it's worth the risk so people know they are talking to somebody who actually does this for a living rather than just some gobshite on the internet.

[cyllan]

4 hours ago, Pedrolg said:

 

As I said before, I don't think anybody here wants to go out of their way to attack and insult other members. At the same time it is really hard to supress how I feel on this matter. There isn't a single rational argument that justifies refusing vaccines at this point. Sweden gets thrown around. It's a failure, a deathzone when compared to it's neighbours and a country that has disgraceful numbers for it's hdi and social and economic standing. Vaccines are proven to immensely help in death prevention ate every single country they have been deployed so far.

I understand that nobody should be objectively forced to inject a substance in their bodies against the will, but restrictions are the way forward. I hate to say this but I hope they get severe to the point where the only place antivaxxers can linger are antivaxxers homes. Wanting to remain unvaccinated and go to events like huge rock concerts is absolutely selfish and insane.

You don’t think calling people irrational and wishing them locked up isn’t insulting then? Mmm ok.  Seems you’d have loved Germany in the 1930s - or maybe even today’s Australia.  Papers please. 

On the plus side, when we’re all thrown in the gulags, you won’t be able to blame us when you keel over from the poisonous shit you’ve allowed yourself to be injected with.  😂
 

 

[cyllan]

14 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I have found that if I do, I become "the enemy". 

Ah, we have 77 Bde amongst us. 🤐

[Dazey]

44 minutes ago, cyllan said:

On the plus side, when we’re all thrown in the gulags, you won’t be able to blame us when you keel over from the poisonous shit you’ve allowed yourself to be injected with.  😂

Yeah, except it's not poisonous.