Vaccination proof?

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

- The vaccines aren't approved by the FDA they were pushed through as an emergency measure. They were rushed albeit with much more focus/resources than usual.

They received emergency use authorization (EUA) after having passed through the same clinical process as any other vaccines, albeit with lots more test people in the trials than what is normal. In that sense, they were approved for use based on more solid foundation than most other vaccines and medicines. The reason why they were subjected to more thorough testing is that the Covid-19 vaccines will be administered to a huge number of healthy people, whereas most other newly approved medicines will be administered to a much smaller amount of people who are already sick; so FDA and other regulatory bodies required more detailed studies on adverse side effects before EUA was granted.

[G O A T]

Nice to see an artist doing the right thing. As he says we're all in this together and there's crew members who need to support their families etc. but if there's one thing we've learned, it's that nothing is more important than health. There's still so much we don't know about the virus and it's long term side effects on the heart, lungs and the brain.

Fred Durst: Even if the performers, crews, staff, and promoters do their best to ensure safety on and behind the stage, that doesn't ensure the safety of the audience as a whole. We are all in this together, and we all — individually and as a whole — have to make our best efforts to be as responsible and proactive as possible moving forward to combat and stop spreading COVID."

Edited August 11, 2021 by G O A T

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Some causes for my paranoia:

- For very good reason I have distrust for Big Pharma and with these vaccines they have been granted even more legal protection than usual, which I disapprove of and find highly suspicious. They should put their money where their mouth is and be stripped of this extraordinary protection, if these vaccines really are so wonderful, at least when they're approved by the FDA.

I don't like this, either, but it is actually quite common, especially when the agreements are signed before clinical phase 3 data has been collected, which was the case with the Covid-19 vaccines which were being sold long before they were fully developed. The alternative would have been that the agreements wouldn't have been signed before the EUAs were given, and that would likely have resulted in much later manufacture and ultimately roll out of the vaccines. Governments decided that based on preliminary data and a need to move quickly, that they were willing to give the vaccine companies this protection, and obviously the vaccine companies were happy to receive it. 

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

- The situation has a shroud of hubris, arrogance, ignorance, coercion, animosity, divisiveness and tribalism actively striving to prevent discussion and questioning. That doesn't bode well.

I see no examples of discussion and questioning being actively suppressed or prevented. It seems like professional media and social media is full of discussions regarding the vaccines efficacy and safety, and anti-vaxxers are frequently given a platform to spread their conspiracy theories. May I remind you that we are now posting on the Discussion & News section of a GN'R fan site? That just shows how ubiquitous the discussions are. I was recently in the media myself to respond to an article written by a conspiracy idiot who claimed hydrogen peroxide is a fantastic remedy against Covid-19. 

[SoulMonster]

19 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

However, after much deliberation I recently decided I'll be getting the vaccine. Mainly because I spoke to my great doctor about all this. I trust her professional opinion which is that the vaccine(it's Pfizer here) is safe and that I should get it as I have asthma. She isn't the type to mindlessly push medications, good bedside manner. The ideal doctor really. Also, being coerced by the inevitable restrictions in daily life if I don't get it.

That's great, and I am happy for you and that's a great doctor.

On a tangent, I would argue that the Hippocratic Oath, especially the part about preventing diseases, means that a doctor is obligated to encourage people to get vaccinated. It's their moral duty. 

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I can accept that I'm just saying at first glance that was a cause for concern especially since all this shit is not at the forefront of my mind/not bothering to read up on things, as the virus isn't here so it's not urgent.

I've more or less come to terms with the vaccine. My fears now are societal and economic.

And I get that. There's been a lot of confusion around the safety of the vaccines, especially since they got developed so quickly and "only" received emergency use authorization.

My fears are health, societal and economic, and the quickest way to get back to normality is through immunity cased by vaccinations. And by taking the vaccine you did your part in that. You didn't have to, but you did it anyway after having given it some thoughts and talked to an expert, and that's cool. More people should be like you.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Take another look at how I was treated in the covid thread mate haha. It's my impression. But yes we're not yet living in a 'complete' totalitarian hell, knock on wood.

In the covid thread you attached to me a bunch of shit I never said and then summed me up as a conspiracy theory idiot with a warped mind lol. So unless I see the interview I can't trust your assessment.

Oh, so all this stuff about "actively striving to prevent discussion and questioning" is you still sore over me calling you out for your nonsense in that thread? Get over it. Your opinions weren't prevented in any way except that people called you out on nonsense. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Nintari]

With this new Delta nonsense, you're likely going to get COVID even with a vaccine.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Nintari

[Sisyphus]

3 hours ago, Pedrolg said:

Every single argument against vaccines in this thread is based on lies and misinformation or wrongful manipulation of data presented in a dishonest or superficial manner. 

Comparing pre-vaccine infection rates with current infection rates is ludicrous. We ended last year on severe lockdowns. Of all people, those at a GNR forum should recognize that the US and the world opened up. We are discussing packed concerts in stadiums, after all. 

Still, if one is to compare infection rates, it is dishonest or stupid to do so without also comparing death rates. While vaccines are partially effective in preventing infection, their main goal is to prevent serious ilness and death. The fact that deaths are not rising at the same rate that cases corroborate the hundreds of studies available and fully published that already showed that most of our current vaccines are effective against serious ilness and deaths, even with the delta variant.

Absolutely nothing is being hidden from anybody. Everything is out in the open. Vaccines were very effective at preventing infection, but covid mutated, there are new variants, delta and possibily lambda. It's widely accepted and admitted by the scientific community and governements that this effectiveness is severely reduced against new variants. Still, studies and analysis of countries where vaccination is advanced show that, thankfully, effectiveness against serious disease and death are holding up.  SO FAR.

I say "so far" because unlike what most people seem to think, vaccines are not an individual line of defense, they are a collective line of defense. A large % of vaccinated people makes it really hard for the virus to evolve and mutate. Unvaccinated people, on the other hand, are a fucking playground for mutation. The more of you antivaxxers are out there, the greater that chance of covid evolving into a variant that indeed renders current vaccines and treatments useless. Scientists have been warning us about it. It will happen.

By refusing the vaccine and advocating against it you are helping the virus fight humanity. You are jeopardizing our fight as a species against a virus that is adapting and has killed millions of people. Not thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but millions. The new strains are more agressive and more dangerous. Humanity has no other answer, as of now, except the vaccines. They are our best shot.

So in my book, and I'm sure that a lot of others here agree but are to polite too say it, this makes you - any person who refuses the vaccine or has taken upon themselves to fight the vaccines - a fucking idiot. Your ignorance kills people. Please, try to inform yourself about what's is truly at stake here. If you refuse to do so and insist on replying to well informed posts with multiple scientific sources with lies and memes, than suit yourself, but don't complain afterwards about the kind of replies you will get. Most of us non-idiots can't do anything to hold you accountable for your irresponsible, death causing behaviour - yet, at least. But we reserve the right to treat fucking idiots for what they are.

Indoctrination complete. You're a good boy. 

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, Nintari said:

With this new Delta nonsense, you're likely going to get COVID even with a vaccine.

I don't think we would have been able to eradicate the original SARS-CoV-2 either, and from that follows we were all bound to get Covid-19 even if it didn't mutate into the Delta variant. But there is a big difference on the individual if you get Covid-19 with or without vaccination (it could be the difference between life and death), and it is a big difference to society if we vaccinate ourselves or not (with vaccinations we avoid overburdening our health systems and we can lift restrictions sooner).

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Siiigh. That's a general impression I've got and your behaviour didn't exactly help matters lol. I've already chosen to let it go I even sent you that PM but I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen. I'm trying to be nice about it. But are you wanting to push my buttons and rehash an argument?

Err, look who brought it up again. Wasn't me. 

[PatrickS77]

14 hours ago, tsinindy said:

Yah, again you have no point.   Getting a lot of things isn't a death sentence, but can be.  You're just clueless dude, it's all good though, live your life the way you want. 

Well. The point is there. If you are too dull to/don't want to see it, I can’t help you. I tried. Fact is, this Virus is not in that way deadly as people like you want it to be. And yes, I will. Even without you telling me so.

Edited August 11, 2021 by PatrickS77

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Well. The point is there. If you are too dull to/don't want to see it, I can’t help you. I tried. Fact is, this Virus is not in that way deadly as people like you want it to be. And yes, I will. Even without you telling me so.

I haven't read your argument but there is no denying that the virus represents the deadliest new disease that has struck mankind in a very long time. More than 4 million dead and that's with vaccinations, restrictions and modern health care. Just image how many would have been dead if we hadn't acted.

The question on when to lift restrictions is a political one, and I am happy I am not responsible for that decision. But arguing as if the restrictions shouldn't have been imposed, suggest a lack of awareness of the gravity of the pandemic.

3 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

At first I wasn't speaking directly to you I was speaking generally listing some things that made me find the situation suspicious. Then you had the audacity to pick that part out and bait me and go "awe shucks I havent seen anyone doing that" and you also bring up some "conspiracy idiot"(something you've tried to paint me as and haven't apologised for you've actually doubled down on). And you keep lecturing me; shut the fuck up. It's like you're trying to erode my goodwill.

Seems like you are the one wanting to rehash an old argument. Not me. Well, good luck with that.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

7 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

^ Speaking of dumb posts...

He's right though. 

[invisible_rose]

8 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Thanks!

If it was more dangerous, I'd be more prone to accepting the risks of the vaccine and taking it.

But at 1% (or less) fatality rate, I'll take my chances.

1% fatality is high! Influenza is around 0.1% by comparison...

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I haven't read your argument but there is no denying that the virus represents the deadliest new disease that has struck mankind in a very long time. More than 4 million dead and that's with vaccinations, restrictions and modern health care. Just image how many would have been dead if we hadn't acted.

Yes. It may well be, that it is "the deadliest new diseases", I'm not denying that, but at a death rate of, what was it, 1% or less, it's still not that deadly. I said nothing against acting on it. As responsible politicians they obviously had/have to do something. I'm also not questioning the mandate that, if you don't get vaccinated you need to get tested to do certain things. That's (even though annoying at times) fair enough, people have a choice to do one or the other. I just question the urgency of getting vaccinated against a disease that, at at the end of the day, is not that deadly. Also, just a fyi, I never said that I will never get vaccinated. I'm just not in a hurry and for me, personally, right now, I don't see a reason for it and I wish people would just respect that (many do, some can't and that's the annoying thing). I do my testing though. Just yesterday I tested negative.

[SoulMonster]

17 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Yes. It may well be, that it is "the deadliest new diseases", I'm not denying that, but at a death rate of, what was it, 1% or less, it's still not that deadly.

What do you mean, "not that deadly"? It results in about 80 million dead when everybody has become infected, which would be the outcome if we didn't vaccinate ourselves. Does 80 million sound more deadly than 1%?

20 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

I just question the urgency of getting vaccinated against a disease that, at at the end of the day, is not that deadly. 

Because the sooner we vaccinate ourselves, the quicker we can reduce the mortality rates (because vaccinated people are more protected from serious symptoms and death). And the sooner we can reduce the mortality rates, the sooner we can lift restrictions. 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

What do you mean, "not that deadly"? It results in about 80 million dead when everybody has become infected, which would be the outcome if we didn't vaccinate ourselves. Does 80 million sound more deadly than 1%?

Hey, 90 Million would've been worse than 80. So it's not that deadly by that logic.

Besides the point that it's not taking into consideration the long term health issues lots of people suffer after their covid infection. 

[SoulMonster]

22 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Also, just a fyi, I never said that I will never get vaccinated. I'm just not in a hurry and for me, personally, right now, I don't see a reason for it and I wish people would just respect that (many do, some can't and that's the annoying thing). 

I think many people have a problem with people not getting vaccinated for stupid reasons when it results in the loss of life of others and the continuations of restrictions. So naturally, some people might not act as respectfully as we would want when faced with that. 

[PatrickS77]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

What do you mean, "not that deadly"? It results in about 80 million dead when everybody has become infected, which would be the outcome if we didn't vaccinate ourselves. Does 80 million sound more deadly than 1%?

Because the sooner we vaccinate ourselves, the quicker we can reduce the mortality rates (because vaccinated people are more protected from serious symptoms and death). And the sooner we can reduce the mortality rates, the sooner we can lift restrictions. 

Out of 8 billion. Yeah. Don't seem that much. Also it's not 80 million that died, it's 4,3 million and it's not that many of those weren't going to die anyway.

Oh well, as long as I keep testing and not actively infect people, I think I'm out of that equation. At least theoretically.

[PatrickS77]

10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I think many people have a problem with people not getting vaccinated for stupid reasons when it results in the loss of life of others and the continuations of restrictions. So naturally, some people might not act as respectfully as we would want when faced with that. 

Well. When it has to do with conspiracy theories like Bill Gates wanting to inject microchips into everyone and other shit, then I agree. But not everyone being wary is that crazy. And again, for my situation, I'm good. Once concerts and travelling for me starts up again, I might/probably will get the vaccination. But for the near future, I got nothing like that planned and am good with testing and so I won't get it (the vaccination).

Edited August 11, 2021 by PatrickS77

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Out of 8 billion. Yeah. Don't seem that much. Also it's not 80 million that died, it's 4,3 million and it's not that many of those weren't going to die anyway.

Oh well, as long as I keep testing and not actively infect people, I think I'm out of that equation. At least theoretically.

It's good you are testing yourself regularly but it can't compete with simply getting vaccinated. It keeps you safer, keeps other safer, and is less of a hassle. But that's your call, of course.

[PatrickS77]

12 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Besides the point that it's not taking into consideration the long term health issues lots of people suffer after their covid infection. 

But also, like death. Those are the extreme cases.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Well. When it has to do with conspiracy theories like Bill Gates wanting to inject microchips into everyone and other shit, then I agree. But not everyone being wary is that crazy. And again, for my situation, I'm good. Once concerts and travelling for me starts up again, I might/probably will get the vaccination. But for the near future, I got nothing like that planned and am good with testing and so I won't get it (the vaccination).

Again, getting vaccinated isn't so much to protect yourself as it is to protect others. That's one of the problems I have with anti-vaxxers, they either are ignorant to the fact that vaccination is about protecting the vulnerable in society or they don't give a shit.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

But also, like death. Those are the extreme cases.

What does it matter? Everyone can have a serious infection and if their luck runs out, even die from covid. This discussion is pointless. Either you take it seriously or you try to find excuses not to get vaccinated.