Vaccination proof?

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

What does it matter? Everyone can have a serious infection and if their luck runs out, even die from covid. This discussion is pointless. Either you take it seriously or you try to find excuses not to get vaccinated. 

Yeah. It is pointless, as you can argue for and against the disease, for which you have a great chance to survive it unharmed, until the cows come home. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice of what to do.

Edited August 11, 2021 by PatrickS77

[Sisyphus]

The lack of rational thinking is astonishing. The inability of some to see the fallacy in all of this ludicrous. You get called all bunch of names just for raising a legitimate doubt. 

The lack of critical thinking and the sheepish mentality of the so called enlightened world is to me one of the most worrying reveleations of this pandemic. 

 

[PatrickS77]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, getting vaccinated isn't so much to protect yourself as it is to protect others. That's one of the problems I have with anti-vaxxers, they either are ignorant to the fact that vaccination is about protecting the vulnerable in society or they don't give a shit.

As if most people getting the vaccination do it to protect others. GTFO with that bullshit. Most do it to protect themselves or to get rid of the lockdown/personal restrictions. At least that's the consensus I get from the people I've talked to that have gotten the vaccine.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Sisyphus said:

 The inability of some to see the fallacy in all of this ludicrous.

What fallacy would that be?

[Sisyphus]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, getting vaccinated isn't so much to protect yourself as it is to protect others. That's one of the problems I have with anti-vaxxers, they either are ignorant to the fact that vaccination is about protecting the vulnerable in society or they don't give a shit.

You should gather your posts into a pamphlet to help promote the official narrative. Could you be more textbook?

[Dazey]

8 hours ago, gt72 said:

I don’t understand why people get so upset at others who either get the vaccine or don’t.It’s now been proven that the vaccinated can and do transmit the virus.

I keep hearing this said so I have to ask. Was your understanding at any point that it wasn't possible for vaccinated people to contract and transmit the virus? 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, PatrickS77 said:

As if most people getting the vaccination do it to protect others. GTFO with that bullshit. Most do it to protect themselves or to get rid of the lockdown/personal restrictions. At least that's the consensus I get from the people I've talked to that have gotten the vaccine.

Oh, I didn't at all want to paint people getting vaccinated as all doing it for others  Still, some do, whereas the choice to not get vaccinated is always a selfish or ignorant decision (exception for all those who can't get vaccinated due to health issues like allergies).

[Stay.Of.Execution]

2 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

As if most people getting the vaccination do it to protect others. GTFO with that bullshit. Most do it to protect themselves or to get rid of the lockdown/personal restrictions. At least that's the consensus I get from the people I've talked to that have gotten the vaccine.

People like you are the reason we have still restrictions though. 

[PatrickS77]

3 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

People like you are the reason we have still restrictions though. 

If I would have tested positive or infected other people, I would feel guilty, as these numbers is what cause restrictions. But since I haven't, not now and also not in the past year and a half, I reject that accusation.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

If I would have tested positive or infected other people, I would feel guilty, as these numbers is what cause restrictions. But since I haven't, not now and also not in the past year and a half, I reject that accusation.

You can't though. There will be restrictions as long as not enough people are vaccinated. So you have to accept the accusation.

[PatrickS77]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, I didn't at all want to paint people getting vaccinated as all doing it for others  Still, some do, whereas the choice to not get vaccinated is always a selfish or ignorant decision (exception for all those who can't get vaccinated due to health issues like allergies).

Oh well, if you want to classify being mistrusting, being wary of the long term effect of the vaccine, questioning the necessity of it, being against government mandating you to put some stuff in your body as selfish or ignorant, then I guess I just have to live with it. I don't agree, but I can respect your opinion.

[Sisyphus]

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What fallacy would that be?

Where to begin? The manipulation of stats, intimidation, opression, coercion, censorship by internet giants, stigmatization and character assasination of doctors and scientist that don't play along, fueling panic and fear, divisiveness, lack of transparency, absurd restrictions that don't resonate with the actual state of affairs, arbitrary decision-making by goverments and so much more.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Sisyphus

[PatrickS77]

4 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

You can't though. There will be restrictions as long as not enough people are vaccinated. So you have to accept the accusation.

Nope. I don't have to. I reject it. But I can live with you accusing me. I can respect your opinion, but I know it's not so. And where I live, they correlate the restrictions with the numbers of people being infected and not with the number of people being not vaccinated (at least officially).

Edited August 11, 2021 by PatrickS77

[Sisyphus]

14 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

People like you are the reason we have still restrictions though. 

With all due respect, I personally think people like you are the real reason we still have restrictions. Something to think about it.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Oh well, if you want to classify being mistrusting, being wary of the long term effect of the vaccine, questioning the necessity of it, being against government mandating you to put some stuff in your body as selfish or ignorant, then I guess I just have to live with it. I don't agree, but I can respect your opinion.

Why are you not more worried about the long-term effects of the disease? How can you question the necessity of fighting a disease that has already killed 4 million people? "Put some stuff in your body"? It is a safe vaccine  Why shouldn't the government encourage people to get vaccinated against a disease which unchecked will continue to kill and kill and kill? That's part of what governments are for. 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 minute ago, Sisyphus said:

With all due respect, I personally think people like you are the real reason we still have restrictions. Something to think about it.

Care to explain?

[PatrickS77]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Why are you not more worried about the long-term effects of the disease? How can you question the necessity of fighting a disease that has already killed 4 million people? "Put some stuff in your body"? It is a safe vaccine  Why shouldn't the government encourage people to get vaccinated against a disease which unchecked will continue to kill and kill and kill? That's part of what governments are for. 

Now we're going in circles and come back to the fact that it is not that deadly, only extreme cases die and suffer long term effects. And the numbers of those is not that high. They can encourage all day long, that is fine. They just shouldn't force me and accept if people say "No." or "Not yet.".

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

The manipulation of stats

Let's start with this and we will handle them consecutively:

What fallacy did I fail to see that involves manipulation of statistics?

 

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Now we're going in circles and come back to the fact that it is not that deadly, only extreme cases die and suffer long term effects. And the numbers of those is not that high. They can encourage all day long, that is fine. They just shouldn't force me and accept if people say "No." or "Not yet.".

Is anyone forcing you? 

It is clear we value lives differently.

[PatrickS77]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Is anyone forcing you?

Not yet. But clearly they are trying to and it will get worse.

[EvanG]

9 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Now we're going in circles and come back to the fact that it is not that deadly, only extreme cases die and suffer long term effects. And the numbers of those is not that high. They can encourage all day long, that is fine. They just shouldn't force me and accept if people say "No." or "Not yet.".

I don't know the exact numbers, but people suffering from Long Covid isn't as rare as you seem to think. Anyway, I'm not telling you to get vaccinated, that's up to you, but I find it slightly naive that in these types of discussions people only concentrate on the death rates, but there's more to it than just that.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by EvanG

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Not yet. But clearly they are trying to and it will get worse.

Then that shouldn't be an argument for you not taking the vaccine now.

[Sisyphus]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Let's start with this and we will handle them consecutively:

What fallacy did I fail to see that involves manipulation of statistics?

 

Is anyone forcing you? 

It is clear we value lives differently.

Well since you support the current course of actions you obviously fail to realize that the numbers are being manipulated and presented selectively to fit the agenda. Under no circumstance do statistical numbers related to covid-19 justify the conditions we've been forced to live with.

As for the question "Is anyone forcing you?" that wasn't directed at me. Are you kidding me? Of course we're being forced. I can't enter a restaurant if I don't have a PCT (that's what they call the ones that are recovered, tested with a negative result or vaccinated). I can't go to the movies. I can't go to see a show. Don't tell me this is "my choice". Conditioned freedom is not freedom. 

[PatrickS77]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Then that shouldn't be an argument for you not taking the vaccine now.

Well, maybe I didn't make myself quite clear. Right now they are not forcing in the way that there is no way around it (like be vaccinated or get tested). But they clearly are pushing. And there are talks to restrict the way around it further, unless one is willing to accept massive restrictions (be vaccinated or stay out in the worst case or test, but pay for the test in the best case). But why am I telling you this? You live in the real world. You know yourself what is going on and what the talks are. And really this back and forth and going in circles is getting tiring. I made my point and there is not all that much more I need to add to it.

[SoulMonster]

14 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Well, maybe I didn't make myself quite clear. Right now they are not forcing in the way that there is no way around it (like be vaccinated or get tested). But they clearly are pushing. And there are talks to restrict the way around it further, unless one is willing to accept massive restrictions (be vaccinated or stay out in the worst case or test, but pay for the test in the best case). But why am I telling you this? You live in the real world. You know yourself what is going on and what the talks are. And really this back and forth and going in circles is getting tiring. I made my point and there is not all that much more I need to add to it.

You can't really criticize your government for trying to make people get vaccinated from a disease that has resulted in ruined industries, huge economic struggles, increased mortality significant, and prevented children and students from getting educated. Again, vaccination is the solution to all this and a government who didn't encourage people to get vaccinated would be a terrible government.

22 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

Well since you support the current course of actions you obviously fail to realize that the numbers are being manipulated and presented selectively to fit the agenda. 

This discussion would be a lot more effective if you wouldn't make me go: What numbers are being manipulated and presented selectively? 

[WhazUp]

Has anyone else noticed that the people so against vaccinations or think COVID is a hoax sound like every teenager in high school after reading Catcher In The Rye and 1984?

Edited August 11, 2021 by WhazUp