When did Dizzy come into the equation?

[19AT5]

This has possibly been discussed before. I'm sure it has. I understand that Dizzy's first concert was Rock In Rio '91 along with Matt, and that he also played on Civil War with Steven. Question is - when did Dizzy really enter the scene? Was he always intended to be a 'full' member? This used to really confuse me when I was younger. I was used to bands like Purple and AC/DC where there were no additional musicians and everybody played on every song. But then when I would watch Live In Paris '92, and I'd see Dizzy bashing on the bongos for half the set, and think WTF is that adding to the sound?! Also, is it documented anywhere what Izzy, Slash and Duff thought about his entry into the band? I've always found this odd - he's credited/pictured as being in the band on the Illusions and yet plays on less than half the tracks?

[megaguns1982]

Dizzy lived with some shit band that shared a rehearsal space with axl in the early .   He became friends with axl.

dizzy was broke years later and saw who could help him.

Called Axl with his sob story.

joined guns n roses.

simple

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, 19AT5 said:

This has possibly been discussed before. I'm sure it has. I understand that Dizzy's first concert was Rock In Rio '91 along with Matt, and that he also played on Civil War with Steven. Question is - when did Dizzy really enter the scene? Was he always intended to be a 'full' member? This used to really confuse me when I was younger. I was used to bands like Purple and AC/DC where there were no additional musicians and everybody played on every song. But then when I would watch Live In Paris '92, and I'd see Dizzy bashing on the bongos for half the set, and think WTF is that adding to the sound?! Also, is it documented anywhere what Izzy, Slash and Duff thought about his entry into the band? I've always found this odd - he's credited/pictured as being in the band on the Illusions and yet plays on less than half the tracks?

Axl had ambitions of brining him in sooner, but it happened in March 1990. 

More here: 11. 1990: MOVING FORWARD WITH A NEW LINEUP (a-4-d.com)

[19AT5]

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Axl had ambitions of brining him in sooner, but it happened in March 1990. 

More here: 11. 1990: MOVING FORWARD WITH A NEW LINEUP (a-4-d.com)

Aaaaah.... should've put that in my original post too! I had heard somewhere that Dizzy was possibly known to the band around the time of AFD or was even gonna join back then?

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, 19AT5 said:

Aaaaah.... should've put that in my original post too! I had heard somewhere that Dizzy was possibly known to the band around the time of AFD or was even gonna join back then?

He was known to the band, yes. His previous band rehearsed near Axl & co and they partied together at the Gardner studio. Axl called him a "bro" from the stage in 1986. He was even apprehended by the police when they were looking for Axl after the rape allegations back in 1986. Dizzy would later claim Axl had intended for him to tour with the band, and possibly record, back in thosee days - if so he might have ended up adding the synth to Paradise City - but he injured himself and that never happened. Alan Niven or the rest of the band might have stopped it anyway and it might not be true either. Axl hasn't said much about it.  It's all there in the history pages of a-4-d.com.

Early picture of Dizzy Zin from those days [credit to @Blackstarfor having unearthed the image]:

Edit: And Sid the Kid from the Jaguars is likely Sean Riggs who hung around the studio back in the early CD days and possibly added early drum tracks before Josh was brought in. And credited as song writer on Oh My God.

Edited August 17, 2021 by SoulMonster

[©GnrPersia]

27 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

Dizzy lived with some shit band that shared a rehearsal space with axl in the early .   He became friends with axl.

dizzy was broke years later and saw who could help him.

Called Axl with his sob story.

joined guns n roses.

simple

If you wanna get hired by Axl for positions such as Manager or even band member you gotta play broke.

[axl666]

He's not a bad song writer and his piano solo spots on the CD tours were always very good.

I think he has a credit for SoD and Twat on CD, two of the best songs on the album.

His solo album has some good songs, such as Crestfallen and Fragile Water, that are as good as a lot of the things that Slash and Duff put out as solo artists.

For whatever reason though I think his contributions to GNR will always be a bit on the periphery.

[Chuzeville]

In 1992, a radio station in France had a contest to win tickets to the Paris show. The question was: how many members are there in GnR? My call got through and I replied: 6. And they didn't accept it! The fuckers didn't know about Dizzy and wouldn't hear me out. What a bummer that was!

[Sweersa]

12 minutes ago, ChuzevilleII said:

In 1992, a radio station in France had a contest to win tickets to the Paris show. The question was: how many members are there in GnR? My call got through and I replied: 6. And they didn't accept it! The fuckers didn't know about Dizzy and wouldn't hear me out. What a bummer that was!

Those jerks! Nice work though.

[Original]

Do Dizzy and Melissa bring anything to the table?  Literally not needed.  Axl could cover any keyboard/piano that Dizzy does.  I'm clueless as to Melissa's worth.

[Sweersa]

6 minutes ago, Original said:

Do Dizzy and Melissa bring anything to the table?  Literally not needed.  Axl could cover any keyboard/piano that Dizzy does.  I'm clueless as to Melissa's worth.

Yes.

Melissa is an enhancer. 

[Blackstar]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:09 PM, Original said:

Do Dizzy and Melissa bring anything to the table?  Literally not needed.  Axl could cover any keyboard/piano that Dizzy does.  I'm clueless as to Melissa's worth.

On the UYI albums you could say that Dizzy was not needed. He has some writing credits on CD though. He's needed on tour for playing the piano parts, so that Axl can be the frontman without having to sit an the piano for many songs.

Melissa's role is adding effects, making guitars sound thicker, playing backing tracks, etc. Most bands have someone for these things, they just have them hidden behind the stage.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Blackstar

[cqleonardo]

46 minutes ago, Original said:

Do Dizzy and Melissa bring anything to the table?  Literally not needed.  Axl could cover any keyboard/piano that Dizzy does.  I'm clueless as to Melissa's worth.

I think Melissa brings more than Dizzy to the table

[johnnybebad]

43 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

On the UYI albums you could say that Dizzy was not needed. He has some writing credits on CD though. He's needed on tour for playing the piano parts, so that Axl can be the frontman without having to sit on the piano for many songs.

Melissa's role is adding effects, making guitars sound thicker, playing backing tracks, etc. Most bands have someone for these things, they just have them hidden behind the stage.

I'm a guitar player and I guarantee that Melissa is not "making guitars sound thicker." What does that even mean?

She's dancing, singing some backing vocals and adding a keyboard line here and there. Otherwise, she's triggering samples that could easily be done by a computer without a human flailing about on stage (not that they're even needed...) There is definitely not a single person at a concert that would miss her contributions or lack thereof. 

She is there because Axl wants her there and this is the Axl Rose show. 

Dizzy I could understand. The Illusions had a lot of piano parts, so it made sense that they needed someone else rather than having Axl sitting behind a piano all night. But then we got Teddy as well....?!

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, johnnybebad said:

I'm a guitar player and I guarantee that Melissa is not "making guitars sound thicker." What does that even mean?

She's dancing, singing some backing vocals and adding a keyboard line here and there. Otherwise, she's triggering samples that could easily be done by a computer without a human flailing about on stage (not that they're even needed...) There is definitely not a single person at a concert that would miss her contributions or lack thereof. 

She is there because Axl wants her there and this is the Axl Rose show. 

Dizzy I could understand. The Illusions had a lot of piano parts, so it made sense that they needed someone else rather than having Axl sitting behind a piano all night. But then we got Teddy as well....?!

I'm not familiar with the technical stuff, so I probably didn't word it correctly. It's been mentioned that she doubles guitar riffs, among other things. Here is what she has said about what she does:

The gig meant she had to learn roughly 50 songs in granular detail so she could help replicate them on the stage. That includes keyboard parts along with countless tiny samples she had to create herself, like the flute flurries on “November Rain,” along with guitar parts she plays on the keyboard and various sub-bass frequencies. “I had to do an insane amount of shit, plus be able to sing backgrounds for Axl,” she says. “It’s stuff that would be hard to pick out, because I’m using sounds that are meant to enhance what’s already going on with Richard [Fortus] or another guitar part. It’s supposed to just sound bigger when I’m doing it, but it’s not supposed to stand out.”

[...]

“I think that 99 percent of the people that go see Guns want to see the top hat and Axl do his thing and Duff,” says Mantia. “They don’t get at all what she’s adding. If you take her away, the low end where she’s doubling Slash’s riff on ‘Brownstone’ wouldn’t sound the same. Axl’s voice wouldn’t sound as thick on a lot of parts. But they wouldn’t give a fuck anyway, since they’re drunk and all they want to do is see Slash do his solo and twirl.”

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4991-2020-06-10-rolling-stone-welcome-to-the-jungle-how-melissa-reese-broke-the-guns-n-roses-glass-ceiling

Edited August 17, 2021 by Blackstar

[Beto 22]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

On the UYI albums you could say that Dizzy was not needed. He has some writing credits on CD though. He's needed on tour for playing the piano parts, so that Axl can be the frontman without having to sit on the piano for many songs.

Melissa's role is adding effects, making guitars sound thicker, playing backing tracks, etc. Most bands have someone for these things, they just have them hidden behind the stage.

I disagree... I think some piano parts on UYI like Dust N' Bones,, Civil War, Get In The Ring, Bad Apples, Locomotive and Pretty Tied Up would it be much different if played by Axl. Dizzy has much more honky tonk, bluesy and southern style than Axl will ever have, and probably, Axl's style would no fit in these songs

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, Beto 22 said:

I disagree... I think some piano parts on UYI like Dust N' Bones,, Civil War, Get In The Ring, Bad Apples, Locomotive and Pretty Tied Up would it be much different if played by Axl. Dizzy has much more honky tonk, bluesy and southern style than Axl will ever have, and probably, Axl's style would no fit in these songs

I think Axl's piano parts on 14 Years, which are on that bluesy style are great.

[MaskingApathy]

5 hours ago, megaguns1982 said:

Dizzy lived with some shit band that shared a rehearsal space with axl in the early .   He became friends with axl.

dizzy was broke years later and saw who could help him.

Called Axl with his sob story.

joined guns n roses.

simple

Pretty much

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

He was known to the band, yes. His previous band rehearsed near Axl & co and they partied together at the Gardner studio. Axl called him a "bro" from the stage in 1986. He was even apprehended by the police when they were looking for Axl after the rape allegations back in 1986. Dizzy would later claim Axl had intended for him to tour with the band, and possibly record, back in thosee days - if so he might have ended up adding the synth to Paradise City - but he injured himself and that never happened. Alan Niven or the rest of the band might have stopped it anyway and it might not be true either. Axl hasn't said much about it.  It's all there in the history pages of a-4-d.com.

Early picture of Dizzy Zin from those days [credit to @Blackstarfor having unearthed the image]:

Edit: And Sid the Kid from the Jaguars is likely Sean Riggs who hung around the studio back in the early CD days and possibly added early drum tracks before Josh was brought in. And credited as song writer on Oh My God.

Which one is Dizzy?

As far as Melissa goes, I just think of her as the modern day Tracy and Roberta.

[EvanG]

I like Axl's playing on UYI more than Dizzy's, but that's probably also because Axl played the coolest piano parts (14 Years, Estranged, Breakdown) himself.
Although I like the piano part (especially the chorus) on So Fine too, but neither of them play that one.

Edited August 17, 2021 by EvanG

[Blackstar]

32 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

Which one is Dizzy?

The one with the cigarette, I guess.

[lame ass security]

11 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The one with the cigarette, I guess.

Those "honky tonkin girls" lost control of their major bodily functions at the sight of Johnny X.😄 I might write a song with that line. Anyway, it would be interesting to know what a guy like that is up to these days. So many of them from those long forgotten LA bands.

Edited August 17, 2021 by lame ass security

[Blackstar]

56 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

As far as Melissa goes, I just think of her as the modern day Tracy and Roberta.

Yeah, she's something like Tracy and Roberta, the horn players, Teddy Zig-Zag and Pitman in one

Edited August 17, 2021 by Blackstar

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

Those "honky tonkin girls" lost control of their major bodily functions at the sight of Johnny X.😄 I might write a song with that line. Anyway, it would be interesting to know what a guy like that is up to these days. So many of them from those long forgotten LA bands.

Johnny X had some bad stuff happen to him, but he's probably doing okay now:

http://metalsludge.tv/johnny-x-of-the-wild/

[Sosso]

1 hour ago, MaskingApathy said:

As far as Melissa goes, I just think of her as the modern day Tracy and Roberta.

 

54 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, she's something like Tracy and Roberta, the horn players, Teddy Zig-Zag and Pitman in one

 

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I'm not familiar with the technical stuff, so I probably didn't word it correctly. It's been mentioned that she doubles guitar riffs, among other things. Here is what she has said about what she does:

The gig meant she had to learn roughly 50 songs in granular detail so she could help replicate them on the stage. That includes keyboard parts along with countless tiny samples she had to create herself, like the flute flurries on “November Rain,” along with guitar parts she plays on the keyboard and various sub-bass frequencies. “I had to do an insane amount of shit, plus be able to sing backgrounds for Axl,” she says. “It’s stuff that would be hard to pick out, because I’m using sounds that are meant to enhance what’s already going on with Richard [Fortus] or another guitar part. It’s supposed to just sound bigger when I’m doing it, but it’s not supposed to stand out.”

[...]

“I think that 99 percent of the people that go see Guns want to see the top hat and Axl do his thing and Duff,” says Mantia. “They don’t get at all what she’s adding. If you take her away, the low end where she’s doubling Slash’s riff on ‘Brownstone’ wouldn’t sound the same. Axl’s voice wouldn’t sound as thick on a lot of parts. But they wouldn’t give a fuck anyway, since they’re drunk and all they want to do is see Slash do his solo and twirl.”

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4991-2020-06-10-rolling-stone-welcome-to-the-jungle-how-melissa-reese-broke-the-guns-n-roses-glass-ceiling

Melissa adding all those parts is probably their way of adding a "third guitar" into the mix. They first had Bucket and Bumble for that. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sosso

[lame ass security]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

Johnny X had some bad stuff happen to him, but he's probably doing okay now:

http://metalsludge.tv/johnny-x-of-the-wild/

Holy crap, he really went through the wringer. Taking the rap for the coke bust and having it ruin his career, that's brutal. He has every right to be super bitter but  doesn't seem to be. I'm sure the passage of time has eased a lot of it. Very resilient guy who hasn't given up, you have to totally respect that.