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20 years later - why was 2002 tour cancelled?


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4 hours ago, BangoSkank said:

If this weren't cancelled and the tour was successful - where would Guns be right now?

I think it still ends up with a reunion. No matter how successful the album and tour was I don't think Buckethead would have stayed long term.  Brian left because he was having a kid and that would have given Bucket even less reason to stay.  I think there would have been lineup changes and eventually we just would have gotten to where we are now.  Slash and Axl were always meant to be on stage together

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1 hour ago, Bitchisback said:

I think it still ends up with a reunion. No matter how successful the album and tour was I don't think Buckethead would have stayed long term.  Brian left because he was having a kid and that would have given Bucket even less reason to stay.  I think there would have been lineup changes and eventually we just would have gotten to where we are now.  Slash and Axl were always meant to be on stage together

Agreed. During the 2002-2006 era when New GNR was still fresh it wasn’t that rare for them to be playing shows in the US with 5-7000 people max showing up in arenas that could fit at least twice as many people easy. Fast forward to the Slash/Axl reunion shows and they’re selling out stadiums with 10X as many people. Five years later (& unfortunately without hardly anything new) and they’re still eventually filling most of these big places up even if they do have to reduce prices on some tickets in most markets. The demand was always going to be there.  

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On 9/1/2021 at 3:50 PM, BangoSkank said:

15 year old me is still crushed by it not happening. I was supposed to go to both too.

Now 34 year old me kind of thinks it's sweet I was in the riot.

same here.  ahhhhhh, memories.  

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20 hours ago, BangoSkank said:

If this weren't cancelled and the tour was successful - where would Guns be right now?

They would've completed the remaining US dates running up to Jan 03, likely without an album. Just like they did in 2006. More shows abroad, like a summer tour. Hiatus. Label issues. CD out a year or two sooner, but with similar problems.

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I went to a 2002 show in Columbus.  I was very disappointed with his voice.  He was full Micky and we couldn’t believe what he looked and sounded like. Such a drastic change in a short amount of time.  Even so, we were excited as it looked like they were finally going to release this album we’ve been teased with for years.  Would of never guessed it would all derail and it would be another 6 years.  

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17 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

I think it still ends up with a reunion. No matter how successful the album and tour was I don't think Buckethead would have stayed long term.  Brian left because he was having a kid and that would have given Bucket even less reason to stay.  I think there would have been lineup changes and eventually we just would have gotten to where we are now.  Slash and Axl were always meant to be on stage together

I agree. 2003 would've seen touring around the world and possibly, very slim chance but possible album out by the end of 2003. If not the album would have come out in 2004 and Bucket would have left by then anyway for the sane reason as the band being unable to finish the album. So you end up on the same trajectory really with Bumblefoot etc. 

A second album wouldn't have cone any sooner. There was only ever one time the second album was gonna come out and that was 2015 or 16 if the reunion hadn't happened, Axl was working on it in 2015.

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17 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

I think it still ends up with a reunion. No matter how successful the album and tour was I don't think Buckethead would have stayed long term.  Brian left because he was having a kid and that would have given Bucket even less reason to stay.  I think there would have been lineup changes and eventually we just would have gotten to where we are now.  Slash and Axl were always meant to be on stage together

I mostly agree. I think we were heading for reunion no matter what. 

The only thing that I think would be different is Axl would have had an easier time. And that is only if: He named the band something besides "Guns N' Roses," the album came out, and the tours were finished. We'd still end up in big reunion, but his life would have been much easier. And if he did all that we might even still see this lineup doing things in the interim ala Slash with Myles Kennedy.

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On 9/1/2021 at 10:32 AM, RussTCB said:

The 2002 show I went to in Detroit was so odd, but so awesome. There's a decent video bootleg of it out there. I came away with a lot of thoughts that night but first and foremost was "holy shit, that Robin guy kicks ass" 

What was Axl’s vocals like being in the arena? Obviously you could nit pick the videos for being too clean but I imagine love it had to have some power

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My buddy was a main lighting tech on that tour. His story as told to him by security was the after msg Axl had pointed out a chick in the crowd he wanted and had security get her a pass and direct to his dressing room. Apparently security got it wrong and sent her Tommy’s room instead. Tommy sent her away and then Axl got pissed and disappeared abs that’s why Philly was cancelled.

that’s what I heard anyway 

 

either way Axls head was certainly not in the game on that tour. He seemed spaced out, depressed and bitter.

clearly wasn’t ready to be on tour

 

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38 minutes ago, tkarmy said:

My buddy was a main lighting tech on that tour. His story as told to him by security was the after msg Axl had pointed out a chick in the crowd he wanted and had security get her a pass and direct to his dressing room. Apparently security got it wrong and sent her Tommy’s room instead. Tommy sent her away and then Axl got pissed and disappeared abs that’s why Philly was cancelled.

that’s what I heard anyway 

 

either way Axls head was certainly not in the game on that tour. He seemed spaced out, depressed and bitter.

clearly wasn’t ready to be on tour

 

That's some Spinal Tap shit there.

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Does anybody believe the band was ready to tour again (RIR Lisbon I think) and because of Buckethead they cancelled? Seems like BS to me, and there is no single lead of the band rehearsing or being called by that time. Also, even Robin or Richard could have filled Bucket spot, since they were doing more AFD songs than CD by this time.

I also don't buy the Brain baby thing. Of course he had a child, but this was not the reason of his departure, otherwise he would have come back soon or later.

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47 minutes ago, lost un the jungle said:

Does anybody believe the band was ready to tour again (RIR Lisbon I think) and because of Buckethead they cancelled? Seems like BS to me, and there is no single lead of the band rehearsing or being called by that time. Also, even Robin or Richard could have filled Bucket spot, since they were doing more AFD songs than CD by this time.

I also don't buy the Brain baby thing. Of course he had a child, but this was not the reason of his departure, otherwise he would have come back soon or later.

Axl seemed to look for any excuse he could to cancel that show in 2004. Buckethead may have checked out but so many other bands would've gotten a quick replacement and honored that date.

He also arguably forever alienated Buckethead by calling him out so publicly while accusing him of things that Axl himself ironically would be guilty of.

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1 hour ago, lost un the jungle said:

 

I also don't buy the Brain baby thing. Of course he had a child, but this was not the reason of his departure, otherwise he would have come back soon or later.

I disagree. Bryan really hasn't toured much or even done much with any bands since he left guns.  I think he is happy being at home with his family and making things like soundtracks.

 

He has stayed close with Guns and I'm sure he didn't want to take his job back from Frank.  I mean he introduced Melissa to Axl so he's obviously still close to the band

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Brain was offered a spot on the 2009-10 tour, but only to play the CD songs. Frank still would've played the classic songs, which is obviously a stupid arrangement, so Brain declined.

I'm glad I got to see the Brain/Brewer/Buckethead tour a few years ago... and I'm glad Axl is keeping Brains drums tracks on future material.

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12 minutes ago, Bitchisback said:

I disagree. Bryan really hasn't toured much or even done much with any bands since he left guns.  I think he is happy being at home with his family and making things like soundtracks.

 

He has stayed close with Guns and I'm sure he didn't want to take his job back from Frank.  I mean he introduced Melissa to Axl so he's obviously still close to the band

You're right about he didn't tour heavily after that, but rings my bell on why he quit after a few gigs in 2006 (despite of his child), he knew at the beginning his son was going to be born. I don't know, and since all former and current GNR members are "under contract" we can only speculate and guess.

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On 9/5/2021 at 3:07 AM, mystery said:

Axl seemed to look for any excuse he could to cancel that show in 2004. Buckethead may have checked out but so many other bands would've gotten a quick replacement and honored that date.

He also arguably forever alienated Buckethead by calling him out so publicly while accusing him of things that Axl himself ironically would be guilty of.

Bucket head left way before 2004 so it was a crap excuse. They blatantly were not going to do that show, nothing else was booked for that summer either. The band were non active. Apart from 4tus saying they were "due to start up again" every month from 2003 till 2006

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On 9/5/2021 at 3:16 AM, lost un the jungle said:

Does anybody believe the band was ready to tour again (RIR Lisbon I think) and because of Buckethead they cancelled? Seems like BS to me, and there is no single lead of the band rehearsing or being called by that time. Also, even Robin or Richard could have filled Bucket spot, since they were doing more AFD songs than CD by this time.

I also don't buy the Brain baby thing. Of course he had a child, but this was not the reason of his departure, otherwise he would have come back soon or later.

The band made an announced in November 2003 that they would play at RIR Lisboa in May 2004. Buckethead left the band at some point in late 2003, likely after the announcement. Buckethead had been rumoured to be on the way out for a while, too. In March 2004, the band announced they would not plat at RIR Lisboa, after all. 

Could they have replaced Buckethead in time for the festival? Possibly but who knows?

Could they have rearranged the show to  only two guitars (Robin & Richard)? Possibly.

Did they start rehearsing and preparing for the festival? Not as far as I know.

I think Buckethead leaving threw a wrench in the machinery that is Axl's brain. It knocked him out a bit. And then he didn't muster the energy to change things up (either hiring someone or rearranging the songs) and ultimately they cancelled the show. With Bucket out of the band the whole idea of Chinese Democracy, as it was back in 2003/2004 was sort of slipping. Bucket was central to nuGuns, he was central to the songs on CD. With him gone, Axl probably considered what options he had: Replace all of Bucket's tracks, replace songs, keep Bucket's parts but add another guitarist to play it live, etc. And with all these important questions unresolved, it was difficult to tour in support of an album.

As for Brain, I actually believe the story. I can understand you want to be home when you are becoming a dad. I can understand this causes for some reflection on being a touring artist. And when Frank took over and all went so nicely, and with Brain still being part of the "fam" and working on new music as well as being promised to be featured on CD2, it makes for a plausible explanation, in my opinion.

Edited by SoulMonster
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On 9/5/2021 at 5:05 AM, lost un the jungle said:

You're right about he didn't tour heavily after that, but rings my bell on why he quit after a few gigs in 2006 (despite of his child), he knew at the beginning his son was going to be born. I don't know, and since all former and current GNR members are "under contract" we can only speculate and guess.

He knew he was getting a baby but he had to return home sooner (complications, hard trimester, early delivery?). I don't know but it is not uncommon. Frank was already part of the tour, likely because he was intended to take over when Brain had to leave anyway. I see no reason to assume there is something hidden here about Brain's departure.

Then Brain was supposed to return to the tour after two weeks, then a month, then three months, but as I pointed out in my previous post, he preferred to remain at home with his little family and his home studio projects. Frank was fitting in nicely and Brain got to work on remixes and was promised he would be featured on new music. Later it was discussed both Brain and Frank would be featured (in 2009/2010), and it looks like Brain wanted this, but for unknown reasons that didn't happen.

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Somewhat related to Brain, I recall Duff's exit from the band in 1997 being heavily influenced by having children. His first daughter was born right around the time he left in August 1997.

I think he told Axl he just couldn't tailor his life around the band like he'd been doing the past few years but told Axl he was there if he needed him. Duff wouldn't speak to Axl again for over a decade.

Also regarding RIR 2004, that whole period from 2003-2005 seemed like a repeat of the mid-late 90s. After making a push in 2001/2002, everything seemed to come to a screeching halt for a few years there. Damn shame, how awesome would Guns have been live in 2004 or 2005?

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28 minutes ago, mystery said:

Somewhat related to Brain, I recall Duff's exit from the band in 1997 being heavily influenced by having children. His first daughter was born right around the time he left in August 1997.

I think he told Axl he just couldn't tailor his life around the band like he'd been doing the past few years but told Axl he was there if he needed him. Duff wouldn't speak to Axl again for over a decade.

That is true, but it could also be a diplomatic way for Duff to not say that he had little belief in the band anymore because things were taking too long and because it had changed too much. I definitely think it was all of this. Being a dad and having to accommodate Axl's erratic work schedule and life style must have been difficult for Duff. And with Slash gone and "Guns N' Roses" pretty much evolved to a point where Duff felt less attachment, the choice was made.

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1 hour ago, mystery said:

Damn shame, how awesome would Guns have been live in 2004 or 2005?

Would it have really been any different to 2001/02? I mean, same line up, likely same problems, likely no album, so likely not all that awesome?! GNR were a joke by this point. I think the 2006 live performances actually got some credibility back but this was not a successful period in the band's history.

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2 hours ago, mystery said:

 

Also regarding RIR 2004, that whole period from 2003-2005 seemed like a repeat of the mid-late 90s. After making a push in 2001/2002, everything seemed to come to a screeching halt for a few years there. Damn shame, how awesome would Guns have been live in 2004 or 2005?

I know for a fact that their promoter  was getting the ball rolling and calling for venue holds for a possible tour during that time. This was back in my music industry intern days 
 

Not that it lead to anything or that it meant things were ready to go. It obviously fizzled out and got pushed to 2006 

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