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Michael Jackson


lilacmess

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I've been listening to Michael Jackson a lot lately and have come to respect him as an artist. I always have kind of, but let the Wacko Jacko stuff get in the way a bit. Not anymore.

It's so hard to discuss MJ and his music with anyone because there is something strange going on. There seems to be no middle ground. It's mostly either absolute adoration or judgment clouded by prejudice. 

And beneath this circus, albeit his megastar status, his talents as songwriter, singer and dancer get buried.

I don't love everything he did, but when something works for me, he can hit me like very few musicians can. It's like someone is playing my heartstrings. So much Emotion. Euphoria even. It's like flying almost.

Is there anyone on this forum who would like to discuss some things  MJ?

Favorite songs, shows, etc. Less known songs like Morphine (the chorus, the bridge!) Or 2000 Watts (so much fun). We could rank and discuss all "Slash songs".  Or even discuss which songs aren't working and why.  Stuff like that.

Anyone?

Edited by lilacmess
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@Towelieand I are big fans of Michael. I actually lent my voice to a YouTube documentary regarding his innocence. I've also interviewed his nephew on my podcast, which was great. 

li understand what you mean about just wanting to discuss his merits as an artist. If that's what you're looking for, Towelie and I can go on for days and days. 

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5 hours ago, lilacmess said:

I've been listening to Michael Jackson a lot lately and have come to respect him as an artist. I always have kind of, but let the Wacko Jacko stuff get in the way a bit. Not anymore.

It's so hard to discuss MJ and his music with anyone because there is something strange going on. There seems to be no middle ground. It's mostly either absolute adoration or judgment clouded by prejudice. 

And beneath this circus, albeit his megastar status, his talents as songwriter, singer and dancer get buried.

I don't love everything he did, but when something works for me, he can hit me like very few musicians can. It's like someone is playing my heartstrings. So much Emotion. Euphoria even. It's like flying almost.

Is there anyone on this forum who would like to discuss some things  MJ?

Favorite songs, shows, etc. Lesser known songs like Morphine (the chorus, the bridge!) Or 2000 Watts (so much fun). We could rank and discuss all "Slash songs".  Or even discuss which songs aren't working and why.  Stuff like that.

Anyone?

Your right, alot of people can't separate the music from the personal life. The irony is he originally feed the media the early strange stories, knowingly it give him publicity and boost the mystery........ Lol, Which we all know backfired spectacularly, and then the media didn't stop.

I love MJ music. The musical talent is undeniable, and against today's ocean of copycats, and anybody that generally loves music, you would be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't agree he was a musical genius. 

Just as it would be easy to list his accomplishments, it would also be too easy for someone to 'feel the need' to 'balance the scales' with his allegations..... So I won't, however it needs to be said, music videos as we know it today would not be the same with MJs contributions, ie Thriller.  And he has some cool unreleased stuff too. 

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Never liked his music, and it was EVERYWHERE when I was growing up. Thriller was huge, Bad was massive... It was unavoidable. His concerts in 88 were big hype affairs. 5 nights at Wembley stadium!! 

I like a lot of the Jackson 5 stuff, but the stuff he did solo I don’t get. Back then (the 80s) it was music chicks liked. 

Michael Jackson is one of those artists where I keep wondering, what is it I’m not getting, I tried a few times, and really don’t know many who don’t like him. So I figure it’s me. 

Just taste I guess

 

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1 hour ago, Powderfinger said:

Michael Jackson is one of those artists where I keep wondering, what is it I’m not getting, I tried a few times, and really don’t know many who don’t like him. So I figure it’s me. 

Just taste I guess

 

I get what you're talking about. Some things just don't resonate.

I hardly know anyone who does like his music in my personal life. Actually I couldn't name one person.

I flooded my best friend with my fav MJ songs and she ended up liking "Who Is It" a little. :lol:

Same with GnR btw, but they are a bit more accepted and liked. :lol:

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8 hours ago, RussTCB said:

@Towelieand I are big fans of Michael. I actually lent my voice to a YouTube documentary regarding his innocence. I've also interviewed his nephew on my podcast, which was great. 

li understand what you mean about just wanting to discuss his merits as an artist. If that's what you're looking for, Towelie and I can go on for days and days. 

Oh, that's great!

IIrc @Towelieis also a big Tori Amos fan. She has been my favorite artist forever.

In the last few days I had a lot of fun with 2000 Watts. Constantly listening to it, dancing around the house like crazy. More than I should have. Another spin always seemed like a good idea. :lol:

What's your opinion on the Album Invincible?

I certainly wasn't ready in 2001, but find it more appealing now. It's imho such a strange mixture of sweat Pop melodies, sometimes even bordering on kitsch and something dark, even disturbing. Musicially there is always something interesting going on.

It's not one of my great loves, but I like some of it and keep coming back because I find it intrigueing.

The Album cover is fantastic. You can get lost in it.

I would also be interesed in everyones favorite less known/underrated songs. I'd give them more attention. 😊

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@RussTCB loves 2000 Watts more than anyone.

@lilacmess I actually run an MJ fan forum, which both Russ and myself post on. Check it out: Home | MYMJJFORUM (boards.net)

And yes, I am also a Tori fan. My wife is a writer (and huge fan) and is interviewing her on Thursday. She is beyond stoked that she is getting to chat to the woman herself after being such a huge fan for so many years. 

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1 hour ago, Towelie said:

@RussTCB loves 2000 Watts more than anyone.

@lilacmess I actually run an MJ fan forum, which both Russ and myself post on. Check it out: Home | MYMJJFORUM (boards.net)

And yes, I am also a Tori fan. My wife is a writer (and huge fan) and is interviewing her on Thursday. She is beyond stoked that she is getting to chat to the woman herself after being such a huge fan for so many years. 

That's awesome! Wow!

I will check out your forum for sure! 

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5 hours ago, lilacmess said:

Oh, that's great!

IIrc @Towelieis also a big Tori Amos fan. She has been my favorite artist forever.

In the last few days I had a lot of fun with 2000 Watts. Constantly listening to it, dancing around the house like crazy. More than I should have. Another spin always seemed like a good idea. :lol:

What's your opinion on the Album Invincible?

I certainly wasn't ready in 2001, but find it more appealing now. It's imho such a strange mixture of sweat Pop melodies, sometimes even bordering on kitsch and something dark, even disturbing. Musicially there is always something interesting going on.

It's not one of my great loves, but I like some of it and keep coming back because I find it intrigueing.

The Album cover is fantastic. You can get lost in it.

I would also be interesed in everyones favorite less known/underrated songs. I'd give them more attention. 😊

Towelie is very much joking about me liking 2000 Watts lol. We reviewed Invincible on my podcast. You can find it here, just skip to the second half of the episode if you only want to hear the review:

https://www.infectiousgroovepodcast.com/igp-crew-album-review-michael-jackson-invincible/

I've got a few MJ related videos on my vinyl channel with more on the way but here's the video I did on my Top 5 MJ Albums:

 

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44 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Towelie is very much joking about me liking 2000 Watts lol.

 

I know it's somewhat silly, but it's so much fun. I'm literaly lmao.

I will check out your reviews. Thanks! 

Edited to add my top 5 MJ albums ranking:

1. Bad

2. Dangerous

3. Thriller 

4. History

5. Invincible 

Edited by lilacmess
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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

We reviewed Invincible on my podcast. You can find it here, just skip to the second half of the episode if you only want to hear the review:

https://www.infectiousgroovepodcast.com/igp-crew-album-review-michael-jackson-invincible/

 

Interesting point about the sequencing. 

I have to admit none of the songs on the album are true gems for me. 

There are some I like a lot (Unbreakable, Invincible, Threatend, Speachless, Break of Dawn, 2000 Watts (lol), Whatever Happens), some I like (Heartbreaker, You Rock My World, Privacy).

I really don't like (I guess I have to take cover now 😅) Butterflies and Cry.

I give an overall 7/10 rating.

100% agree on him being  underrated as vocalist. He was one of the best for sure! That's what pulled me in in the first place.

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21 minutes ago, lilacmess said:

Interesting point about the sequencing. 

I have to admit none of the songs on the album are true gems for me. 

There are some I like a lot (Unbreakable, Invincible, Threatend, Speachless, Break of Dawn, 2000 Watts (lol), Whatever Happens), some I like (Heartbreaker, You Rock My World, Privacy).

I really don't like (I guess I have to take cover now 😅) Butterflies and Cry.

I give an overall 7/10 rating.

100% agree on him being  underrated as vocalist. He was one of the best for sure! That's what pulled me in in the first place.

The album is REALLY divisive. Like you said, you don't like Butterflies and Cry. Then I don't like 2000 Watts but others do. 

I'm glad to hear the vocals are what pulled you in. I know I said this on the show but seemingly no one talks about Michael as a singer. If you listen to Human Nature alone, I can't see how you wouldn't come away with his vocals being a big focus. (not YOU but people in general, lol) 

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I love Michael Jackson. He will always be my No. 1 artist of all time, nobody can ever come close. I'd say I know all the known details about his life, all his songs, every deep-cut or demo. Got all the albums on my shelf. So I guess you can call me a "super-fan" (but not one of those weird and creepy super-fans, I'm not obsessed with him or anything).

18 hours ago, lilacmess said:

Favorite songs

Earth Song is my favorite song of all time by any artist. I love his later stuff, songs like "Blood on the Dance Floor", "Stranger in Moscow", "Threatened" or "Unbreakable" are easily in my Top 15 list of MJ songs.

 

18 hours ago, lilacmess said:

shows

Honestly, that's probably my biggest complaint about MJ. Don't get me wrong, his shows were amazing and I get that they can't go on forever or that he can't do 3 hours like GNR, but I always felt he missed out to play some songs. For example, IMO "Bad" should have been a regular on every tour, but he hasn't performed it since the first leg of the Dangerous tour. Or "Will You Be There", that song was such a big hit it should have been on the HIStory tour setlist.

All in all, my favorite set has to be the first leg of the HIStory tour. "Off The Wall medley", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "DS/Come Together" (which evwn then I would consider a deep cut). All the new HIStory album songs, all the hits from every important era.

But there is no denying that the "This Is It" setlist and show would have been his absolute best. He had all the songs in there, from Off The Wall to Invincible. Songs like "Dirty Diana" and "Will You Be There" would have made a comeback, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough", which is probably his biggest hit that he rarely did live would have been featured. I could go on and on about how great that tour would have been.

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1 hour ago, lilacmess said:

Interesting point about the sequencing. 

I have to admit none of the songs on the album are true gems for me. 

There are some I like a lot (Unbreakable, Invincible, Threatend, Speachless, Break of Dawn, 2000 Watts (lol), Whatever Happens), some I like (Heartbreaker, You Rock My World, Privacy).

I really don't like (I guess I have to take cover now 😅) Butterflies and Cry.

I give an overall 7/10 rating.

100% agree on him being  underrated as vocalist. He was one of the best for sure! That's what pulled me in in the first place.

Invincible is a great album. It's hard to compare to his past albums, as by 2001, he was really in a no-win position. Think of how GNR are defined by AFD, and then consider that MJ had at least three Appetite's (OTW, Thriller and Bad). These albums were beyond legendary status by 2001, plus he had amassed 4 consecutive albums in a row that are in the all time best sellers list. Really nothing he delivered in 2001 could've lived up to that legacy. Add to that, the fallout with Sony and his refusal to promote the album and it was never going to live up to peoples expectations.

Having said that, judging it purely on a musical level, I think it lives up artistically to his impeccable standards of quality control. There's a few lesser tracks, but stuff like Heaven Can Wait, Whatever Happens, Speechless and Butterflies find MJ in his finest voice in years. There's a richness to his vocals on this album, which mixes the purity of his youthful tone with the raw, raspy agression of his later works wonderfully. 

I just wish a few of the outtakes like the stunning We've Had Enough and the unfinished demo Hollywood Tonight had been included on the final tracklist.

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44 minutes ago, TheGeneral said:

I love Michael Jackson. He will always be my No. 1 artist of all time, nobody can ever come close. I'd say I know all the known details about his life, all his songs, every deep-cut or demo. Got all the albums on my shelf. So I guess you can call me a "super-fan" (but not one of those weird and creepy super-fans, I'm not obsessed with him or anything).

Earth Song is my favorite song of all time by any artist. I love his later stuff, songs like "Blood on the Dance Floor", "Stranger in Moscow", "Threatened" or "Unbreakable" are easily in my Top 15 list of MJ songs.

 

Honestly, that's probably my biggest complaint about MJ. Don't get me wrong, his shows were amazing and I get that they can't go on forever or that he can't do 3 hours like GNR, but I always felt he missed out to play some songs. For example, IMO "Bad" should have been a regular on every tour, but he hasn't performed it since the first leg of the Dangerous tour. Or "Will You Be There", that song was such a big hit it should have been on the HIStory tour setlist.

All in all, my favorite set has to be the first leg of the HIStory tour. "Off The Wall medley", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "DS/Come Together" (which evwn then I would consider a deep cut). All the new HIStory album songs, all the hits from every important era.

But there is no denying that the "This Is It" setlist and show would have been his absolute best. He had all the songs in there, from Off The Wall to Invincible. Songs like "Dirty Diana" and "Will You Be There" would have made a comeback, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough", which is probably his biggest hit that he rarely did live would have been featured. I could go on and on about how great that tour would have been.

This reminds me that I did get to see him in concert once, on the Bad Tour here in Detroit. Well, it was actually at The Palace of Auburn Hills, but everyone referred to it as Detroit. 

In any case, I'm really glad I got to see him in concert at least once. I was supposed to be at the Madison Square Garden show on 09/10/01 but a friend backed out and I didn't want to travel alone. In hindsight, I'm glad that trip didn't work out for obvious reasons. 

I was really hoping to get to see him one more time with This Is It and I agree with what you said. It would have been his greatest setlist ever.

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MJ was 1st artist I really listened. I was 10, MTV played his videos every few hours.. 

I remeber our national TV broadcasted 1 song from opening evening of Dangerous tour... Video for In The Closet was aired in the end of main news on national TV...

Concert from Bucharest I recorded on VHS and learned it from thr start to the end...

Was very disapointed and angry when parents didn't allow me to go to Vienna Concert with best friend and his older sister (now I understand, wewere country at war and I was only 11)...

After that, soon I started listening GNR, Maiden and Metallica so wasn't really cool to be MJ fan anymore ...

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2 minutes ago, lilacmess said:

His performances of Human Nature during the Dangerous Tour have me completely mesmerized. So beautiful and touching. This strange on point choreography! They're phenomenal!

It's a pity we can't share yt videos.

I think that only applies to GNR videos. Could be wrong though.

On this day, it's 25 years since Michael kicked off the HIStory tour in Prague. Despite the lipsyncing an amazing show. And I've been lucky enough to see the final run through the show the night before, since it was an outdoor show and they didn't properly close off the area. Also on this day it's 20 years since The Jacksons reunited at his 30th anniversary show in New York. Awesome to see him and the brothers back again. Later that night, Slash joined him for Beat it and Black or White. Where did the years go.

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13 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

After that, soon I started listening GNR, Maiden and Metallica so wasn't really cool to be MJ fan anymore ...

You can always come back. I think you should. If you haven't listened to his music in a while, you're in for a real treat! 🤩😍

Edited by lilacmess
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13 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

MJ was 1st artist I really listened. I was 10, MTV played his videos every few hours.. 

I remeber our national TV broadcasted 1 song from opening evening of Dangerous tour... Video for In The Closet was aired in the end of main news on national TV...

Concert from Bucharest I recorded on VHS and learned it from thr start to the end...

Was very disapointed and angry when parents didn't allow me to go to Vienna Concert with best friend and his older sister (now I understand, wewere country at war and I was only 11)...

After that, soon I started listening GNR, Maiden and Metallica so wasn't really cool to be MJ fan anymore ...

Always been an MJ fan. Waited for years until I finally could see him in concert, which was in '92. 1 week before Michael I saw GNR. Almost didn't want to go see MJ after that. Of course, that changed the second he shot up on stage. Beforehand I just wasn't quite in the mood for it, switching from a rock show to a pop show. :facepalm::wacko:;)

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3 minutes ago, lilacmess said:

You can always come back. I think you should. If you haven't listened to his music in a while, you're in for a real treat! 🤩😍

Oh,I did, but never got into HIStory or Invincible...

Man In The Mirror - I could listen it on the loop whole day...

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Not much else I can add that others haven't already been said. Big fan. I think my favourite "lesser known" song would be Is It Scary. I love that it seems to be a "Halloween song" or typical Thriller type track that one may associate with MJ at first but develops into having an obviously deeper meaning. Really powerful and chilling towards the end imo. 

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1 hour ago, lilacmess said:

His performances of Human Nature during the Dangerous Tour have me completely mesmerized. So beautiful and touching. This strange on point choreography! They're phenomenal!

It's a pity we can't share yt videos.

"Human Nature" itself is a very strange song. It's incredibly beautiful ... but kind of haunting. It has this weird, "out of this world" touch that makes it kind of sad to me. I always imagine a very lonely person walking through a city at night. It's the same way Roy Orbison's songs make me feel.

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