Look Away documentary - #MeToo Axl Rose / Steven Tyler

[Pele]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 And I think there's as much truth to this as to your lists with KOHD ("99 vocals").

The music sites (Rolling Stone, etc.) had reported about that at the time.

 

Things have changed a lot over the last decade though.

I think if the lead singer on one of the biggest bands in the world ranted with a misogynistic, homophobic rant aimed at the moderator of the largest online fan forum - it would be huge news.

[Blackstar]

17 minutes ago, Pele said:

Things have changed a lot over the last decade though.

I think if the lead singer on one of the biggest bands in the world ranted with a misogynistic, homophobic rant aimed at the moderator of the largest online fan forum - it would be huge news.

I don't think things have changed that much since 2010. For example, in that same year Slash had made a comment in jest about the riff on MJ's Black Or White being "gay," and then he retracted after some negative comments. But in Axl's case I guess he was just being "Axl" as far as the press was concerned.

Plus, Axl is the singer of a band that still performs a song that contains the lyrics "turn around bitch/I got a use for you" every night.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Blackstar

[Martin Riggs]

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't think things have changed that much since 2010. For example, in that same year Slash had made a comment in jest about the riff on MJ's Black Or White being "gay," and then he retracted after some negative comments. But in Axl's case I guess he was just being "Axl" as far as the press was concerned.

Plus, Axl is the singer of a band that still performs a song that contains the lyrics "turn around bitch/I got a use for you" every night.

Things have considerably changed since 2010 though with stuff like this. It brought down a lot of powerful people for a few years especially. It’s not as common recently but if people who are willing to go on the record couple up with an enterprising journalist…it can still essentially be lights out for even the big fish. Especially if they already have reputations as being huge assholes. See super producer Scott Rudin earlier this year as an example. 
 

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, Martin Riggs said:

Things have considerably changed since 2010 though with stuff like this. It brought down a lot of powerful people for a few years especially. It’s not as common recently but if people who are willing to go on the record couple up with an enterprising journalist…it can still essentially be lights out for even the big fish. Especially if they already have reputations as being huge assholes. See super producer Scott Rudin earlier this year as an example. 
 

The bolded happened even in the '90s. The People magazine cover and article were arranged by a big PR company hired by Erin's legal team.

But, supposing that happened today and someone decided to unearth old allegations against Axl, what would be the actual consequences for his career other than bad press and social media backlash? He can't be taken to court, since the statute of limitations has long expired - unless there'll be a similar Act like the one that prompted the lawsuit against Bob Dylan about something that allegedly happened in 1965 (!), but that was exclusively about underage victims. Manson was dropped by his record label and management. Would GnR be dropped by UMG? Even if they would, they have enough money to finance a record themselves (supposing the would want to). Would Axl be fired from the band or dropped by TB? (lol).

[Ratam]

Is weird that it recently accusation about Bob Dylan isn't has still many fuss.

[DTJ80]

So - we have a documentary wheeling out an already known story covered in the press/in an autobiography?

If there is unknown stories then absolutely fair doos - let people tell them but to regurgitate stuff which was already in the press (and if memory serves….this story actually was wheeled out already during the #metoo movement) doesn’t exactly bode well for any kind of quality documentary.

Axls relationships (and the apparent volatility within them) have been WELL documented in media over the decades….so this is not new stuff. Of course unless there is stuff we haven’t heard.

[Martin Riggs]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

The bolded happened even in the '90s. The People magazine cover and article were arranged by a big PR company hired by Erin's legal team.

But, supposing that happened today and someone decided to unearth old allegations against Axl, what would be the actual consequences for his career other than bad press and social media backlash? He can't be taken to court, since the statute of limitations has long expired - unless there'll be a similar Act like the one that prompted the lawsuit against Bob Dylan about something that allegedly happened in 1965 (!), but that was exclusively about underage victims. Manson was dropped by his record label and management. Would GnR be dropped by UMG? Even if they would, they have enough money to finance a record themselves (supposing the would want to). Would Axl be fired from the band or dropped by TB? (lol).

I agree that there doesn’t seem to be many obvious consequences in his case. I mean it’s not like people will have the choice to hypothetically boycott new music!! If it was really bad I guess promoters could shun them but seems unlikely with the facts currently known. 

[Blackstar]

30 minutes ago, Martin Riggs said:

I agree that there doesn’t seem to be many obvious consequences in his case. I mean it’s not like people will have the choice to hypothetically boycott new music!! If it was really bad I guess promoters could shun them but seems unlikely with the facts currently known. 

I think the only thing a big media backlash might cause is his disappearing from the public eye again.

[DTJ80]

28 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think the only thing a big media backlash might cause is his disappearing from the public eye again.

I’d be amazed if any of this led to a major fallout….unless there is a shocking revelation. There were allegations against Axl on this forum about 1.5 years ago and that didn’t go anywhere where it was supposed to be getting taken forward by legal representatives for the person.

The 70s/80s rock scenes are legendary and you could film a 300 episode 2 hr series on the debauchery. But that’s the thing - debauchery can be different to the type of abuse which Manson has been accused of.

[Blackstar]

11 minutes ago, quikspade said:

Kinda like Bill Cosby?

Yes, Cosby was someone with a very different profile than Axl (a family-friendly comedian, not a notorious rockstar) and (if I'm not mistaken) nothing was heard about him until when the accusations came to light a few years ago; also some of the allegations were about things he had done recently (if that's what you mean).

[Twinaleblood]

32 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

There were allegations against Axl on this forum about 1.5 years ago 

I don't remember this. Can I get a quick summary please?

[Blackstar]

9 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

I don't remember this. Can I get a quick summary please?

That was about an already known story, too: the rape charge that was filed during the Gardner rehearsal space days, before the band got signed with Geffen, which was later dropped. A woman named Michelle said she was the person involved in that. She made allegations on social media and posted on the forum, too (there was a long thread in the Jungle section).

[guitarpatch]

I don’t think many hold Axl Rose to be a model of morality 

[Twinaleblood]

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

That was about an already known story, too: the rape charge that was filed during the Gardner rehearsal space days, before the band got signed with Geffen, which was later dropped. A woman named Michelle said she was the person involved in that. She made allegations on social media and posted on the forum, too (there was a long thread in the Jungle section).

Thank you, I rarely look at the jungle section so that's why I missed that. And yes, those rape charges are definitely a well known story anyway, not a "scoop" like Bill Cosby.

[DTJ80]

37 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

I don't remember this. Can I get a quick summary please?

@Blackstar below has summarised it. I’d add that the person was also calling out Duff for his part In it too (for apparently asking for the charges to be dropped way back when etc). Nothing has been heard of since. 🤷🏼‍♂️

18 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

That was about an already known story, too: the rape charge that was filed during the Gardner rehearsal space days, before the band got signed with Geffen, which was later dropped. A woman named Michelle said she was the person involved in that. She made allegations on social media and posted on the forum, too (there was a long thread in the Jungle section).

Cheers - much more succinctly put than I would have. 🤣

[allwaystired]

It's so weird what people get 'cancelled' for. Seems no rhyme or reason to it. 

For example - Queens Of The Stone Age's Josh Homme's kids file for a restraining order claiming all sorts of abuse, he's previously been accused of headbutting his ex-wife, etc etc. Seems to just go unnoticed. Roman Polanski seems to have a pass out despite being a convicted paedophile on the run from the law! 

Others make one ill judged joke or have a view that isn't liked, and they're done. All very odd. 

 

 

[Blackstar]

7 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

@Blackstar below has summarised it. I’d add that the person was also calling out Duff for his part In it too (for apparently asking for the charges to be dropped way back when etc). Nothing has been heard of since. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers - much more succinctly put than I would have. 🤣

She later did an interview with some person on twitter, a self-proclaimed "former GnR fan" and Trump fanatic. Coincidentally or not, that twitter account and everything associated with it was deleted after the Capitol events.

[DTJ80]

10 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

It's so weird what people get 'cancelled' for. Seems no rhyme or reason to it. 

For example - Queens Of The Stone Age's Josh Homme's kids file for a restraining order claiming all sorts of abuse, he's previously been accused of headbutting his ex-wife, etc etc. Seems to just go unnoticed. Roman Polanski seems to have a pass out despite being a convicted paedophile on the run from the law! 

Others make one ill judged joke or have a view that isn't liked, and they're done. All very odd. 

 

 

Just read about the Homme stuff - what a mess. Not that it means anything really but I have never saw the fuss about QOTSA. 🤷🏼‍♂️ And actually…didn’t Nick Oliveri get the boot over assault?

8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

She later did an interview with some person on twitter, a self-proclaimed "former GnR fan" and Trump fanatic. Coincidentally or not, that twitter account and everything associated with it was deleted after the Capitol events.

🤦‍♂️ Not exactly getting folk onside really by choosing that avenue to tell your story…..

Edited September 11, 2021 by DTJ80

[allwaystired]

4 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Just read about the Homme stuff - what a mess. Not that it means anything really but I have never saw the fuss about QOTSA. 🤷🏼‍♂️ And actually…didn’t Nick Oliveri get the boot over assault?

🤦‍♂️ Not exactly getting folk onside really by choosing that avenue to tell your story…..

I think he did yeah. Who knows if the stuff against Josh Homme is true or not.....but that doesn't usually matter in the world of 'cancel culture'. Either way, as you say, it's a mess, and I'm surprised more people haven't latched onto it. 

 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

Looking forward to this. It might be that the stories have been told before in a tabloidish manner, but it sounds like the documentary will offer some new insight and cultural context, as opposed to just reciting the stories as isolated incidents, so it could be interesting.

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

If they're going to attempt to retroactively cancel people like Steven Tyler and Axl Rose, I sure hope they're ready to also retroactively cancel nearly every entertainer in the history of music and movies. 

It doesn't sound like they are out to cancel anybody: "All of the women in the film are incredible women in the sense they're forgiving and they aren't 'out to get' these rock stars. It's about setting the record straight. For many of them, it's a personal reckoning. I don't think it's a case of wanting to get their own back or tearing anyone down... It's actually not about the rock stars at all, it's about these women and it's about them being heard - so that people don't just make the assumptions that I think a lot of people make about some of these women."

[Ratam]

The press, media pick target, how many people knew that Lennon beat his first wife? 

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, Ratam said:

Is weird that it recently accusation about Bob Dylan isn't has still many fuss.

It made the media rounds. But, even in this era, with the awareness created by #metoo and many more people willing to support the victims' side, it's very hard for allegations like this, made more than half a century later, to be taken seriously. The lawsuit document has become public and there is nothing in it other than a vague allegation of abuse - no descriptions, no details, let alone evidence - that happened in 1965. Moreover, a strong case has been made regarding Dylan's whereabouts at the time that supposedly happened.

[Ratam]

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It made the media rounds. But, even in this era, with the awareness created by #metoo and many more people willing to support the victims' side, it's very hard for allegations like this, made more than half a century later, to be taken seriously. The lawsuit document has become public and there is nothing in it other than a vague allegation of abuse - no descriptions, no details, let alone evidence - that happened in 1965. Moreover, a strong case has been made regarding Dylan's whereabouts at the time that supposedly happened.

Yes agree, isn't i believe it . After 56 years! My concern is more about the media attitude, they target people,.these yes, not others.

[alfierose]

Golden era rockstars are like teflon when it comes to cancellation. I think it's partly because they've always been upfront about the sex, drugs and R&R and it's what people expected of them in their prime and sometimes beyond. Look at what Bill Wyman got away with!

I think the only way it becomes a serious issue for any of them right now is if recent allegations get made rather than the shit they got up to at 25. Even then I'm not sure how much appetite there is for taking down rockers. In a weird way it might be because they don't hold institutional power like politicians, studio execs etc...they're rich and famous but other than that loads of them are just ex addicts and fuck ups.

[Nice Boy]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That was about an already known story, too: the rape charge that was filed during the Gardner rehearsal space days, before the band got signed with Geffen, which was later dropped. A woman named Michelle said she was the person involved in that. She made allegations on social media and posted on the forum, too (there was a long thread in the Jungle section).

 

Since all that she has also said she's partaken in a documentary, giving an interview about her experience. It hasn't been aired yet though as far as I know. If/when it does and gets a lot of publicity then I think Axl's public image could take a dive.