Look Away documentary - #MeToo Axl Rose / Steven Tyler

[JimiRose]

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

So he's matured up to the point where "grab her by the pussy" is no longer edgy n' cool but "pussy full of maggots" still is?

Baby steps, baby steps...

Perhaps he's just reciting a medical complaint he once came across. One could argue it's very responsible of him and more light should be shone on this debilitating condition. Good work Ax'! 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

59 minutes ago, jekylhyde said:

These two phrases don't really compare. Other one is about exploiting one's position of power to degrade women in real life situations and other one is lyrics.

GNR used to take pride in the fact that they wrote their lyrics about real life. They wrote lyrics about exploiting one's position of power to degrade women and Axl still sings those lyrics. It's So Easy.

Either way, I don't quite see where people get the idea that he's matured up. How would anybody even know where his head is at when he's not doing any interviews?

[Scream of the Butterfly]

It's an unfortunate situation for someone like Michelle. I think she's probably telling the story as accurately as she remembers it (which doesn't mean it's 100% accurate), but after all these years I don't see much hope that she's ever going to gain any justice. Even just getting the story out there must be difficult with media outlets afraid of legal consequences or otherwise not interested. Axl himself would need to step out to confirm her story, but I don't think he's anywhere near mature enough for that to ever happen.

I think the reason Sheila Kennedy has had a little bit better luck in getting her story out there is in part because she's a celebrity herself, which immediately opens more doors. Also, in the Daily Mail article/video, she's not explicitly accusing him of rape even if that's what the story amounts to. I don't know whether that was her own call, but I suspect it may have been the magazine or the publisher of her book that made the decision for fear of lawsuits.

[Tom2112]

On 9/11/2021 at 2:22 PM, Pele said:

In today's world, I think he's one campaign away from a cancellation.

I think that's why he publicly embraces left wing politics and anti-Trump etc.  He wants to associate with that side of the fence to reduce the risk of being targeted.

It wasn't long ago he attacked the moderator of this site with a misogynistic, homophobic rant which included slurs such as:

• loud mouthed, arrogant c*nt
• angry lesbian
• ho defenders
• bitch bois

I think he's incredibly lucky Madison didn't go to the press with that, and I think it would be a story of interest today.

 

 

Such bullshit, amazing! 

This idea that everything he does is this well thought out act to secure himself against allegations 🤣 I mean that's so stupid, get some air Pele🤣

[Pele]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:27 AM, Blackstar said:

Since Sheila Kennedy's story will be in the documentary, here it is as presented in her book (mainly the parts and details that are not mentioned in the Daily Mail article and her video interview included in it):

Riki Rachtman was present when the scene she describes took place. Back at the club, Sheila saw Axl and was attracted to him (she says she didn't know who he was and hadn't even heard Sweet Child O' Mine - which is a bit odd, since she seems to have known members of minor hair bands, but okay). Then Axl invited her to party with him and Riki in the hotel suite they shared and she accepted - it was going to be a foursome*. Axl didn't want Sheila's friend to go with them, but in the meantime Riki found  himself another woman.

The four of them went to the hotel and Riki made all the "hangers on" that were there leave. Sheila went to the bathroom and saw that Axl had, besides lithium, which she mentions in the Daily Mail interview, various anti-psychotic meds. She didn't like that (being experienced enough to suspect what the combination of coke and that stuff could do) and also wasn't too keen to have sex with Riki, but she wanted Axl. Axl started making out with the other woman and Sheila with Riki (there are some details about that). Then Riki took her to the other room and soon afterwards they heard Axl breaking stuff. Riki tried to tell Sheila to leave. Axl threw the other woman out, grabbed Sheila and did what she describes in the Daily Mail interview. Riki Rachtman was just sitting there. After that, they had some more (consensual) sex* (there are details about what they did exactly) and Axl said he was sorry and didn't mean to do what he had done before. Then they both passed out.

When she woke up in the morning, Axl had left. She says, like in the Daily Mail interview, that the reason Axl had left so early was that he had to go to the Howard Stern show, and when Stern asked him why he was late, Axl said he'd spent the night "with a Penthouse pet." That's another odd part, because Axl has ever done only two interviews with Stern, both on the phone (the first time Stern called him in his hotel room in New York and the other time Axl and Sebastian Bach called in from L.A.) and in none of them anything like that was mentioned.

* If Axl did what she said, these details don't make him less guilty, but they are part of the story as she has told it.

 

You're a good source of knowledge.

Have you read any excerpts of Sorelle's unreleased book?

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, Pele said:

You're a good source of knowledge.

Have you read any excerpts of Sorelle's unreleased book?

I don't know what one has to do with the other.

What I posted is a recap from a book that has been released and is out there (Sheila Kennedy's book).

I haven't read Sorelle Saidman's book, since it hasn't been released. I've read some stories that were posted some years ago on this and other forums, which I consider very likely to be excerpts from that unreleased book.

[Powderfinger]

10 hours ago, weaponsnflowers said:

I kind of think that when you are involved with people that use drugs, it's kinda given that there's going to be violence and volatile behavior. Specially when there's a whole mix of different chemicals and people with mental health issues already. It's not going to be a walk in the park. 

Most bands I’ve been in have involved fucked up people. It’s like a past time for the insane. Or the one thing the ADHD fucker can focus on. Drugs and Alcohol are an acceptable part of the process. Fighting is usually part of the process. But fucking over women is not on.

Self destructive behaviour is one thing, messing with other people  for your own pleasure is another. I believe you’re a raping piece of crap or your not. You can’t be a bit pregnant for example. 

Most bands I’ve been in, the majority of the members would also be from parents who’d split,  left school early etc etc. Are people in bands less fucked up now than the 80s & 90s?

Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran don’t scream Cigarettes & Alcohol to me... 

 

[NostalgicRock]

this metoo movement seems like a bunch of middle aged women regretting their hoe phase back in the 80s and want a quick dough for it.

[Stress Fracture]

John Lennon was a wife beater. It’s never been a secret that John Lennon was a wife beater. John Lennon openly admitted to beating his wife. “I used to be cruel to my woman / I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved / Man, I was mean” is a lyric on Sgt Pepper that he said was about his marriage.

If you start cancelling rock stars for their treatment of women, you go all the way to the top and nobody is gonna be prepared to cancel The Beatles.

[Rovim]

31 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It depends. Something like Axl consensually hatefucking a 25yrld? That's obviously a non-issue. Something like David Bowie or Jimmy Paige fucking a 13yrld kid? Go ahead lock them up. It should be entirely irrelevant how talented and famous someone is. If they do some awful illegal thing then they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Nobody should have any desire to protect the guilty. We still have the albums anyway. R Kelly is a piece of shit I'm glad he's in prison but I still listen to I Believe I Can Fly, Ignition(Remix) and Bump N' Grind, they're absolute bangers.

It shouldn't be left up to mob mentality there are legal channels for victims to take which need to be improved and made as safe as possible so they aren't scared to come forward. I'm talking about actual victims btw not greedy, disgraceful, shameless, attention seeking liars who make things harder for actual victims and try to ruin innocent people. Honestly, anyone who literally thinks silly things like "Believe all women." is a stupid simp.

P.S. It will never cease to astound me that, in the end, society's reaction to the pedo cult known as the Vatican is to shrug and give them money and reverence.

definitely. We expect objectivity when in reality, as humans, a lot of the time we are too quick to judge based on what we want it to be/initial instinct so maybe it's better to deal with these matters with some level of control that only laws can provide after proper investigation of the available evidence.

R. Kelly is a criminal but that doesn't mean every person who gets accused of something doesn't have the right to at least defend themselves before getting assfucked by a mob cause there are a lot of liars that just want attention and/or to get paid.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Rovim

[CAFC Nick]

9 hours ago, Pele said:

Have you read any excerpts of Sorelle's unreleased book?

Oh wow I haven’t heard about that book in forever! Incredible it still isn’t released!

[Powderfinger]

This documentary is tonight, is that right? 

[Pele]

18 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know what one has to do with the other.

What I posted is a recap from a book that has been released and is out there (Sheila Kennedy's book).

I haven't read Sorelle Saidman's book, since it hasn't been released. I've read some stories that were posted some years ago on this and other forums, which I consider very likely to be excerpts from that unreleased book.

Nothing sorry.

I just mean you obviously know a lot and I was wondering if you'd managed to get a copy.

[BrayWyatt]

2 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

This documentary is tonight, is that right? 

I just watched the axl rose segment and Vicky Hamilton talks about how not long after the band was signed,  slash said to her "can you hide axl for a few days". It was an incident concering a young woman but no details were given. 

Then we hear from Sheila Kennedy and she says how she and axl had sex after he pulled her hair and pulled her along the floor aggressively and hurt her legs. He was supposedly kind to her afterwards. 

She said the sex was consensual.

Edited September 13, 2021 by BrayWyatt

[janrichmond]

1 hour ago, BrayWyatt said:

I just watched the axl rose segment and Vicky Hamilton talks about how not long after the band was signed,  slash said to her "can you hide axl for a few days". It was an incident concering a young woman but no details were given. 

That's in Slash's book

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

That's in Slash's book

Yes, also in a few other Vicky Hamilton interviews and in her own book.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

If anybody knows how to watch this outside the UK, let me know.

A couple of more articles:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/13/look-away-review-horrifying-stories-of-abuse-at-the-hands-of-male-rock-stars

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/16125545/look-away-steven-tyler-sex-abuse-rock/

[GnR Chris]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:22 AM, Pele said:

In today's world, I think he's one campaign away from a cancellation.

I think that's why he publicly embraces left wing politics and anti-Trump etc.  He wants to associate with that side of the fence to reduce the risk of being targeted.

It wasn't long ago he attacked the moderator of this site with a misogynistic, homophobic rant ...

That was 13 years ago. And though it might not be that long ago, the world is very different today than it was back then.

 

And I totally disagree with you about your opinion on his disdain for Trump.  That's just silly.

Besides, when the cancel police comes for you, it doesn't matter if, till that point, you've been perceived as an ally or not. You're still gonna get canceled. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by GnR Chris

[Towelie]

 

Guns N’ Roses’ manager Vicky Hamilton let singer Axl Rose hide from the police in her house after a young woman pressed charges against him because: “My job was to look after the band.” (The case was dropped due to lack of evidence.) Going after youngsters was so prevalent that for the men, as Hamilton breezily puts it, “There was no shame in their game.” Sheila Kennedy’s subsequent description of her own time with Rose explains where it went instead. “I carried all the dirtiness of him … Why doesn’t he feel that? I can say this now – I didn’t deserve any of that. And shame on him.”

theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/13/look-away-review-horrifying-stories-of-abuse-at-the-hands-of-male-rock-stars

Edited September 14, 2021 by Towelie

[Towelie]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:16 AM, NostalgicRock said:

this metoo movement seems like a bunch of middle aged women regretting their hoe phase back in the 80s and want a quick dough for it.

It seems that women are untouchable these days. Im not saying that a lot of these women weren't mistreated back in the day, but is ruining a mans career and livelihood really fair game for something that may or may not have happened 30yrs ago?

Now if we're talking about rape here or underrage stuff, then by all means, call out these men. But in Axl's case, and in many others, we're not dealing with that stuff and I think some of these women are just abusing their position just like the men did against them back in the day.

It's like "this man didn't treat me well when I was a grown-ass adult who knew exactly what I was doing. Now he deserves to be publicly humiliated three decades later and have his reputation and livelihood taken away from him."

I'm sorry, but fuck off grifter. These chancers give real victims a bad name. Just because someone says they were a victim, it doesn't mean they actually were. People lie, embellish, especially those with a loose moral compass who probably fucked a tonne of famous rockstars back in the day. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Towelie

[Blackstar]

11 hours ago, BrayWyatt said:

I just watched the axl rose segment and Vicky Hamilton talks about how not long after the band was signed,  slash said to her "can you hide axl for a few days". It was an incident concering a young woman but no details were given. 

Then we hear from Sheila Kennedy and she says how she and axl had sex after he pulled her hair and pulled her along the floor aggressively and hurt her legs. He was supposedly kind to her afterwards. 

She said the sex was consensual.

I haven't been able to find a way to watch it so far.

Did Sheila Kennedy say she was 18 then? Also did she mention that another man (Riki Racthman) was present? Judging from the article in The Sun, she hid that detail.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Blackstar

[BrayWyatt]

50 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I haven't been able to find a way to watch it so far.

Did Sheila Kennedy say she was 18 then? Also did she mention that another man (Riki Racthman) was present? Judging from the article in The Sun, she hid that detail.

She she said had been the cover girl for a mans magazine 4 times before the incident. She was probably early 20s at the time. She didn't mention Riki but she did say that axl was with her friend in the hotel room at the time she was there.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

5 hours ago, Towelie said:

It seems that women are untouchable these days. Im not saying that a lot of these women weren't mistreated back in the day, but is ruining a mans career and livelihood really fair game for something that may or may not have happened 30yrs ago?

How is it ruining his career and livelihood that women are sharing their stories? It seems to me the majority of fans either don't care or choose not to believe the victims. Even if there are some who do believe the stories, I still don't see it having much of an impact on him. I'd say he's got off with very little consequences. He could have ended up in prison.

 

5 hours ago, Towelie said:

Now if we're talking about rape here or underrage stuff, then by all means, call out these men. But in Axl's case, and in many others, we're not dealing with that stuff and I think some of these women are just abusing their position just like the men did against them back in the day.

Rape and underage stuff is exactly what he's been accused of among other things. You choose to believe it didn't happen and that the women are all liars, but you weren't there.

 

5 hours ago, Towelie said:

I'm sorry, but fuck off grifter. These chancers give real victims a bad name. Just because someone says they were a victim, it doesn't mean they actually were. People lie, embellish, especially those with a loose moral compass who probably fucked a tonne of famous rockstars back in the day. 

And just because somebody says it's a lie doesn't mean that it actually is.

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, BrayWyatt said:

She she said had been the cover girl for a mans magazine 4 times before the incident. She was probably early 20s at the time. She didn't mention Riki but she did say that axl was with her friend in the hotel room at the time she was there.

Probably late 20s (since she's Axl's age).

[alfierose]

This has made it into The Guardian 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/sep/13/look-away-review-horrifying-stories-of-abuse-at-the-hands-of-male-rock-stars