Team Brazil being fucking idiots

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I'm not so sure about Matt. Even if Slash and Duff were so keen on him (which I have some doubts of), Axl would probably prefer Brain, and I think that at least Duff would be on board with that. It's likely that Brain was asked to be in the reunion, not replacing Frank completely, but sharing duties with him (and maybe Steven, too - Axl is capable of having three drummers ), but declined because he's friends with Frank and doesn't want to even half-take the gig from him. So I doubt Matt would be on the top of the list.

Matt agreed in 2008 that he wouldn't be on the top of the list 

Matt: I'm sure [a reunion will] happen eventually. [...] They could be having meetings about it right now. They could be in a bomb shelter, with Axl and Slash and Duff. And Izzy! Maybe Steven Adler - I don't know. I'd probably be the very, very, very last guy to get the call [MusicRadar, June 23, 2008]

[ZoSoRose]

44 minutes ago, Ixtlan said:

I enjoyed your post. But, even during the UYI tour it was Axl’s way or no way. And, during that era Slash and Duff had equal say, but not really when it came down to it. I recently read interviews with members of Pearl Jam and they all openly spoke how Eddie Vedder wrestled control of the band during the Vitology album. The band further explained that much later and now it makes sense that it’s Eddies band, so I don’t think it’s exclusive to Axl that a lead singer of a major band exerts powerful influence of the band. Duff has gone on record to state he is a member of the band in every sense of the word. Duff strikes me as an honest human being who wouldn’t lie or pretend. I believe Slash said as much in the Nikki Sixx interview. As for TB, I just don’t get it all, but you’re 100% correct in it would be the same with or without them around. However, TB and Fernando especially seem to need to justify their existence with a lot of power trip behavior. I recall Fernando making some shitty comment when the Live Nation tour manager won an award for NITL. He seems to think he’s doing something meaningful for the band, and maybe he is many ways, such as the Lithos, which were one of the coolest parts of the tour. Who ever knew or thought a GNR concert poster could sale for 9k, so he does have great ideas, but acts really shitty at times.  

That is all about appeasement when it comes to Axl and picking battles. Back in their 30s, it may have been worth it to Slash and Duff to walk out opposed to just dealing with Axl. Now, it makes more sense for them to go along with what Axl wants to do. They got their places back in GNR and get to make a ton of money. It's not just about shows, but it also opens the door to more revenue from licensing and merchandising crap. All 3 of them are probably making tons on the revival of all the classic merchandising junk.

TB needing to justify their existence is all about their lack of qualifications, experience, and unprofessionalism. Fernando does not get credit for the lithos, either. GNR was not the first band to do them, and they won't be the last. Metallica, Black Sabbath, Foo Fighters, Queens of the Stone Age, and many more have down the show specific litho. It's a great piece of merchandise, and it has zero to do with TB. Most bands have the exact same merchandise, just with different art. They all go through Bravado or whatever companies the labels partner with. 

Edit- It's kind of funny that people insist on this band vs. that band when they all function almost exactly the same. Stage shows done by the same few production companies, merchandising by the same few companies, similarly structured set lists with hits in specific slots. It's all fun and good stuff, I love big shows. But go to an arena or stadium shows for a Broadway production, go see some local acts for some real band shows. Last night I went to a packed bar to see one of my favorite local rock bands. Night and day from any professional show. They are completely different experiences, and I want certain things out of them. A giant show like GNR is a choreographed, nostalgia churned production and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is just what it is. No need to pretend these bands are what they were in their 20s and 30s.

Edited July 19, 2021 by ZoSoRose

[Sosso]

4 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

And there's no way Slash/Duff would be ok with 2 drummers. I still think that if they had the chance to get anyone they wanted they would get Matt.

No, you want them to get Matt. They still havent asked him. 

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Matt agreed in 2008 that he wouldn't be on the top of the list 

Matt: I'm sure [a reunion will] happen eventually. [...] They could be having meetings about it right now. They could be in a bomb shelter, with Axl and Slash and Duff. And Izzy! Maybe Steven Adler - I don't know. I'd probably be the very, very, very last guy to get the call [MusicRadar, June 23, 2008]

Yes (I posted the same on the previous page)

 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Yes (I posted the same on the previous page)

 

Duh! Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting. Gotta learn to read the entire thread before posting.

[Ixtlan]

5 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

That is all about appeasement when it comes to Axl and picking battles. Back in their 30s, it may have been worth it to Slash and Duff to walk out opposed to just dealing with Axl. Now, it makes more sense for them to go along with what Axl wants to do. They got their places back in GNR and get to make a ton of money. It's not just about shows, but it also opens the door to more revenue from licensing and merchandising crap. All 3 of them are probably making tons on the revival of all the classic merchandising junk.

TB needing to justify their existence is all about their lack of qualifications, experience, and unprofessionalism. Fernando does not get credit for the lithos, either. GNR was not the first band to do them, and they won't be the last. Metallica, Black Sabbath, Foo Fighters, Queens of the Stone Age, and many more have down the show specific litho. It's a great piece of merchandise, and it has zero to do with TB. Most bands have the exact same merchandise, just with different art. They all go through Bravado or whatever companies the labels partner with. 

I’m fully aware other bands have concert posters. I didn’t mean it was unique or specific to GNR. Fernando said on that Dischord video that he was personally responsible for bringing Litho to the tour. I have no reason to believe he was lying. Everything you said about TB is accurate, though. TB doesn’t bother me at all. I know a few GNR diehards who know nothing about TB or Fernando. I do hope GNR retire soon. 

[allwaystired]

The lithos are cool though. Some I like a LOT more than others (the ones with that frog that looks like it's having a seizure are abysmal in my view) but they're usually pretty interesting and connected with the places they are. They're something the band have definitely done right. 

It's a crazy shame they couldn't have made them into a nice (and sensibly priced) book, but there we go. I know other bands have done them before, but there's no doubt about the fact GNR do them well, surely? 

[Tom2112]

On 7/15/2021 at 7:30 PM, Blackstar said:

I had stuff like this in mind:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071031215711fw_/http://www.gnrsource.com/news/2006-11/08-merck.htm

Yeah, my impression is that Merck genuinely wanted to support Axl without pushing him too much (Axl can't be pushed anyway) and the letters were along the lines of that support.

I suppose Axl was out and about because he wanted to (it was one of his extrovert phases) and not because of some planned PR policy.

But, of course, there is a lot of missing information about what went down behind the scenes. Probably, aside from the pattern of Axl blaming management for booking a tour, the rift was due to some mishandlings on the business side as well as issues stemming from Sanctuary going bankrupt, which, even though towards the end Merck left Sanctuary taking Axl with him, dragged Axl into unwanted additional litigation.

Interesting link! 15yrs later things are about the same. Axl needs to stay off the Internet or get some more therapy. You can't be worried about what some shithead from Iowa has to say about you. Imagine if he's been reading the boards and then trying to please the discontents and everybody else. He'd be working on records for years on end.

[mystery]

5 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Interesting link! 15yrs later things are about the same. Axl needs to stay off the Internet or get some more therapy. You can't be worried about what some shithead from Iowa has to say about you. Imagine if he's been reading the boards and then trying to please the discontents and everybody else. He'd be working on records for years on end.

That last part is pretty much what he did with Chinese Democracy. How you describe him reminds me of Kevin Durant, star basketball player in the NBA for those who don't know. He's a superstar player and very wealthy but he cares way too much what random people on social media think of him. To the point where he responds to random people and makes burners. 

[MaskingApathy]

13 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

I recall Fernando making some shitty comment when the Live Nation tour manager won an award for NITL.

Yeah that was a dick move, very unprofessional. Even worse because the Live Nation manager was a woman (who has lots of experience with other big name artists before doing GnR) so it was just really bad optics and reeked of jealousy.

 

On 7/18/2021 at 7:06 AM, PatrickS77 said:

How awkward. "Hey Duff. Control your woman." 

Duff could beat the crap out of Fernando, and I'm sure he knows that.

14 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

A lot of people have a very romantic look at what "band member" means. Its just an arbitrary title in the case of Guns N' Roses. Its nice the other musicians get to use it, but anyone who thinks they are on equal footing with Slash and Duff, let alone Axl, are just plain wrong. Richard, Frank, Melissa, and Dizzy could all be dismissed tomorrow and replaced with a completely new array of backing musicians and it would not really affect the show. I don't mean that to be disrespectful, I like those guys, it is just how it is. If the brand loses Slash, it loses a ton of value. Having one other original member up there also helps with the branding (I think you could swap in Steven or Izzy and it would be the same tbh). With the rest of the "band", they are hired to play the music at the concerts, that is it. If they have to sign some NDAs and not do interviews pertaining to GNR aside from "the tour is great" and "this is my gear!", they probably don't really care. It is not their place. You hit the nail on the head with guys in those bands. Is Daryl Jones out there giving candid interviews on The Rolling Stones? Is Steuart Smith with the Eagles? Nope. 

Guns N' Roses is not really a "band" anymore, and most arena+ acts probably function the same way. You have the band name that generates a ton of cash flow, those that control that name and its assets and activity, and then others who are hired by that name to play the shows and all of that. "Guns N' Roses" is probably mostly controlled by Axl, and whatever drafted up record label/media group contracts and lawyers on retention to enforce what these channels are. Slash and Duff always had a stake in that, as well, as they seemed to keep licensing rights. Now that they are back in the band, they are involved with the shows, and they sure as shit don't want to stir the pot with something that could set Axl off. The "GNR" brand is insanely valuable again with the reunion. Why would Slash or Duff want to give detailed interviews and potentially fuck up the brand right now? Much easier to learn some Chinese songs, sign some arbitrary NDAs, smile with the last bow on stage after Paradise City every night, and do their thing. Team Brazil are unprofessional and annoying, and they have no business playing manager, but really those are just Axl's guys. They serve as an extension of his arm, and I am sure the label/media group, Slash/Duff, etc. don't even really give them much thought in the grand scheme of things. Slash and Duff keep their own separate teams in place. I am not defending Team Brazil, they have zero business being in the position they are and their unprofessionalism shows that, but GNR would be functioning exactly the same with or without them. 

It is not a group of guys who hang out or sit in a room with guitars to write music, anymore, and pretty much no big musical band is anymore. No, it is not a military operation, and it is immensely stupid a rock band is treated with so much secrecy and does not release new music, but that is all on one dude. There wouldn't be a new GNR record without Axl anyways, so if Slash and Duff can't get one out of him, might was well continue with the reunion shows and tie a neat little bow on their legacy while raking in cash. 

Yeah like Melissa in her Rolling Stone interview was insisting that she's a band member (in comparison to Tracy and Roberta), but at the end of the day she's just a hired gun like them. Unless she has a certain percentage like Matt did back in the day but I doubt it.

14 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

Agree, but you don’t think Dizzy is a member above the rest? Or, that he is at least viewed by Axl as somewhat significant?

I think the last part is true but in the overall band hierarchy I don't think he's above Fortus/Frank/Melissa. Having said that though I don't think he needs to be worried about his job. 

13 hours ago, mr. address said:

NITL is one of the biggest tours ever without one major interview.

I think the "media blackout," such as it is, is pretty cool. The band's only statements are actions: "If we are on tour, we are on tour. If we are not on tour, we are not on tour." I honestly appreciate not being flooded with GN'R content.

That said, fuck TB. It's one thing to have an internal strategy, and another to fuck with fans for no reason. It's just petty, stupid behavior. The worst part is that TB know that there are zero consequences to this bullshit, so it's basically just unaccountable cyber-bullying.

From millionaires.

Against fans.

I agree

13 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Matt agreed in 2008 that he wouldn't be on the top of the list 

Matt: I'm sure [a reunion will] happen eventually. [...] They could be having meetings about it right now. They could be in a bomb shelter, with Axl and Slash and Duff. And Izzy! Maybe Steven Adler - I don't know. I'd probably be the very, very, very last guy to get the call [MusicRadar, June 23, 2008]

I think he said all that based on the dynamics in VR, plus he knows Slash/Duff very closely. Turns out he was right.

13 hours ago, Sosso said:

No, you want them to get Matt. They still havent asked him. 

They haven't asked him because Axl said no. I still believe that if Axl called Slash/Duff and said "hey Frank is out, go find another drummer, doesn't matter to me who it is" the first call would be to Matt. And if not Matt then I don't think it's impossible that Fitzy might be asked (which I would be thrilled about). I don't think they would do a whole open audition process. 

Having said that I think Frank is here to stay so this is all just wishful thinking on my part 

[Top-Hatted One]

Don’t think they’d call Matt. He’s too much of a loose cannon and could jeopardize their entire business entity 

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

Yeah like Melissa in her Rolling Stone interview was insisting that she's a band member (in comparison to Tracy and Roberta), but at the end of the day she's just a hired gun like them. Unless she has a certain percentage like Matt did back in the day but I doubt it.

Matt had a percentage for his contributions on UYI (I suppose Dizzy had a smaller percentage for that, too).

They are members according to Axl's "flexible" definition in 1992:

DEL: Is [Gilby] a "member" of Guns N' Roses?

AXL: This "member" thing is quite interesting, I read in an interview where Matt [Sorum, drummer] said that if he didn't get made a member, he wasn't going to be in Guns N' Roses. The truth of the matter is, Matt's a member of GN'R, but it doesn't really mean anything. It's kind of like a clubhouse/gang thing. We're all members of this gang. What it boils down to is, whose yard is the tree house in? Matt's a member of GN'R, and his opinions are taken into consideration. As far as that's concerned, Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses. But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family.

DEL: Do you think Matt's gonna be pissed when he reads this?

AXL: It would be nice if he wasn't. I love everybody in this band. It's kicking ass and feels really warm and really cool onstage. At this point it's the 12 of us that get onstage and f?!king go all out.

DEL: There's 12 of you?

AXL: There's Teddy, there's Dizzy, there's Roberta, Tracy, Lisa, CeCe, Anne, Gilby, Matt, Duff, Slash and me. Slash put this new band together, did all of the groundwork. He did such an amazing job that I just can't believe it really happened. [...]

https://www.a-4-d.com/t545-1992-09-10-11-dd-rip-i-axl

I think it's the same thing now with two differences: 1) the current lineup hasn't released a record, whereas in 1992 Matt and to a lesser extent Dizzy were in the band that recorded UYI  (although it could be argued that Richard and Frank had some minor contributions to CD, so the only one who hasn't been on a record is Melissa), 2) The way the band is marketed: in 1992 the internal dynamics weren't reflected on how the band was promoted, whereas now it's being marketed as the "big three" and the other guys.

[MaskingApathy]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself

Except now it's "Slash, Duff, Beta/Fernando, and myself."

Even thought that was true back then I think it's a little less of a gang mentality now, it's Slash/Duff/Axl plus the other ppl playing with them. Like I'm pretty sure Melissa isn't telling the others what to do etc, she does what she's told. From her interview it seems that Slash wasn't into her being there in the first place so her opinion probably doesn't carry that much weight.

[Guest]

On 7/19/2021 at 5:55 AM, Ixtlan said:

I enjoyed your post. But, even during the UYI tour it was Axl’s way or no way. And, during that era Slash and Duff had equal say, but not really when it came down to it. I recently read interviews with members of Pearl Jam and they all openly spoke how Eddie Vedder wrestled control of the band during the Vitology album. The band further explained that much later and now it makes sense that it’s Eddies band, so I don’t think it’s exclusive to Axl that a lead singer of a major band exerts powerful influence of the band. Duff has gone on record to state he is a member of the band in every sense of the word. Duff strikes me as an honest human being who wouldn’t lie or pretend. I believe Slash said as much in the Nikki Sixx interview. As for TB, I just don’t get it all, but you’re 100% correct in it would be the same with or without them around. However, TB and Fernando especially seem to need to justify their existence with a lot of power trip behavior. I recall Fernando making some shitty comment when the Live Nation tour manager won an award for NITL. He seems to think he’s doing something meaningful for the band, and maybe he is many ways, such as the Lithos, which were one of the coolest parts of the tour. Who ever knew or thought a GNR concert poster could sale for 9k, so he does have great ideas, but acts really shitty at times.  

Legally, GN'R's a partnership between Axl, Slash and Duff, as they were during the uyi tour. This change happened in 2016 if I'm not mistaken.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

there is a large extended brazilian family to take care of 

[whatashame]

what is this even supposed to mean "Team Brazil tries to harrass guests who appeared on the show" ? what kind of an accusation is that? So Team Brazil harrasses Duff's wife, Dizzy, Fortus, Dizzy's wife, Frank? What is this crap

[Stay.Of.Execution]

5 minutes ago, whatashame said:

what is this even supposed to mean "Team Brazil tries to harrass guests who appeared on the show" ? what kind of an accusation is that? So Team Brazil harrasses Duff's wife, Dizzy, Fortus, Dizzy's wife, Frank? What is this crap

Did you listen to the clip or just posted something without any kind of knowledge?

[whatashame]

I'm kinda hopin you'll tell me what's up in a paragraph or two so I don't have to read 13 pages of comments or listen to another 28 minutes of Brando's rambling.

[jamillos]

46 minutes ago, whatashame said:

I'm kinda hopin you'll tell me what's up in a paragraph or two so I don't have to read 13 pages of comments or listen to another 28 minutes of Brando's rambling.

  

On 7/14/2021 at 7:27 AM, jamillos said:

Pretty please, can someone summarize it in like two sentences or so? I'm at work. Thanks a lot. 

  

On 7/14/2021 at 7:29 AM, MaskingApathy said:

Fernando has told Dizzy, Frank, Fortus, and Melissa that they're not allowed to do the AFD podcast, and now other people who are connected to GnR are staying away also.

 

[themadcaplaughs]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:47 PM, Blackstar said:

I'm not so sure about Matt. Even if Slash and Duff were so keen on him (which I have some doubts of), Axl would probably prefer Brain, and I think that at least Duff would be on board with that. It's likely that Brain was asked to be in the reunion, not replacing Frank completely, but sharing duties with him (and maybe Steven, too - Axl is capable of having three drummers ), but declined because he's friends with Frank and doesn't want to even half-take the gig from him. So I doubt Matt would be on the top of the list.

Take it for what it's worth, but back in 2016, MSL said that at the outset of negotiations, Slash and Duff tried to mention bringing Matt back in the fold, and were essentially told that if they asked again, negotiations would stop; it was going to be Frank and Steven (at the time) or nothing. He also said that while Axl still doesn't really like Steven Adler, he was willing to at least consider bringing him on as he had an intrinsic "value" as being part of the Appetite for Destruction band (same as Izzy). Apparently Axl still hates Matt for whatever reasons Axl has to hate Matt, but unlike Steven, Axl didn't see Matt bringing the same kind of "boost" to the tour. 

I have no beef with Matt. He was obviously the right guy at the right time, and was able to get the band to the "finish line" in terms of recording the Use Your Illusions albums, but I have never been a huge fan of his playing style with Guns N' Roses. I would actually rank him at the bottom (even under Frank). I thought he worked in Velvet Revolver a little better, I am guessing because that band was "built" around his style. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by themadcaplaughs

[Blackstar]

23 minutes ago, themadcaplaughs said:

Take it for what it's worth, but back in 2016, MSL said that at the outset of negotiations, Slash and Duff tried to mention bringing Matt back in the fold, and were essentially told that if they asked again, negotiations would stop; it was going to be Frank or nothing. He also said that while Axl still doesn't really like Steven Adler, he was willing to at least consider bringing him on as he had an intrinsic "value" as being part of the Appetite for Distortion band (same as Izzy). Apparently Axl still hates Matt for whatever reasons Axl has to hate Matt, but unlike Steven, didn't see him bringing the same kind of "boost" to the tour. 

Thanks, although I don't trust the source (and other so called "insiders") at all, especially when it comes down to the reunion and NITL era - hadn't the "information" that Slash and Duff recorded Atlas Shrugged in 2016 come from the same source?

Anyway, I don't know if Axl hates Matt so much - I don't think he does, because otherwise Matt wouldn't have been offered a guest spot under the same conditions as Steven . But, seeing how much he appreciates loyalty and wants to reciprocate, it's a logical assessment that he would prefer "his guy" (Frank and or Brain) over Matt.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Blackstar

[Top-Hatted One]

Perfect world it would be Brian with more significantly lingers appearances from Adler. Brain is a beast. A real driving force force for the live band on stage. Check out Better 2008 at Download 

[Blackstar]

44 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Thanks, although I don't trust the source (and other so called "insiders") at all, especially when it comes down to the reunion and NITL era - hadn't the "information" that Slash and Duff recorded Atlas Shrugged in 2016 come from the same source?

Anyway, I don't know if Axl hates Matt so much - I don't think he does, because otherwise Matt wouldn't have been offered a guest spot under the same conditions as Steven . But, seeing how much he appreciates loyalty and wants to reciprocate, it's a logical assessment that he would prefer "his guy" (Frank and or Brain) over Matt.

To add to the above, Axl probably wouldn't have wanted a déjà vu of having all three Slash, Duff and Matt in the band, considering that the reunion was still fragile then and there were likely mutual reservations and suspicion.

Izzy is a different story. He and Axl go way back and, despite everything that has happened, there'll probably always be a bond between them. Moreover, Izzy is his own man, he's more neutral and wouldn't affect the "balance" in the band.

It also makes sense to me that Axl would consider Steven more "family" than Matt. It's something I would speculate on without having any information. But Steven wouldn't have been there in full capacity anyway.

 

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, themadcaplaughs said:

Take it for what it's worth, but back in 2016, MSL said that at the outset of negotiations, Slash and Duff tried to mention bringing Matt back in the fold, and were essentially told that if they asked again, negotiations would stop; it was going to be Frank and Steven (at the time) or nothing. He also said that while Axl still doesn't really like Steven Adler, he was willing to at least consider bringing him on as he had an intrinsic "value" as being part of the Appetite for Destruction band (same as Izzy). Apparently Axl still hates Matt for whatever reasons Axl has to hate Matt, but unlike Steven, Axl didn't see Matt bringing the same kind of "boost" to the tour. 

I have no beef with Matt. He was obviously the right guy at the right time, and was able to get the band to the "finish line" in terms of recording the Use Your Illusions albums, but I have never been a huge fan of his playing style with Guns N' Roses. I would actually rank him at the bottom (even under Frank). I thought he worked in Velvet Revolver a little better, I am guessing because that band was "built" around his style. 

Yeah that's what I heard too. Matt was really the only guy who was willing to directly stand up to Axl back in the day so I'm sure that has something to do with it, plus he knows that he would be a little more pushy overall if he was in the band.

[RochelleRochelle]

I seem to remember an interview with Matt during the Nu GNR days.  He said he ran into Axl at a party in NYC, they talked, Axl gave him a ride after the party.