Hard Skool Officially Released at Midnight - Sept 24

[Gordon Comstock]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

Quite likely to be the one from the AFD reissue I would have thought......

 

I assume the live recordings are from the 2021 tour, since that's the only tour Absurd and You're Crazy were played on? (I know they played You're Crazy once in 2020 but I doubt they'd want to draw attention to that show... )

SOYL was only played at the last 4 or 5 shows so I guess it's one of those. There was a few decent performances of You're Crazy last year so that's the only live track I'm really interested in, but they only put that one on the CD...

[Live Like a Suicide]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:26 AM, MaskingApathy said:

Any guesses as to which SOYL live version is on the Nightrain vinyl?

This probably, lol. Or Firenze Rocks.

 

[RedHook]

21 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Regarding the writing credits for Hard Skool, although it hasn't appeared on ASCAP or any other similar databases yet, I saw on another forum that it appears on the database of Universal Music Publishing (which has Axl's publishing) and the credited writers are Axl, Slash, Duff, Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson and Josh Freese:

https://www.umusicpub.com/us/Digital-Music-Library/search/Hard Skool

So, I suppose that the credits to NuGnR members mean that the song doesn't originate from the 1996 sessions?

On the other hand, the press release said it was written by Axl, so maybe it pre-existed in its basic form and then the NuGnR members helped arrange it, so that's why they get credit.

 

That was me that posted it.

 

I don't think the credits are completly accurate as to who actually wrote what.

These are according to Universal Music Publishing Group. I found it last night by looking at the publishing data on the Hard Skool video. (ABSURD is on ASCAP &  Universal and they are both the same)

 

The Hard Skool song writing credits are Rose (Fink, Freese, Hudson, McKagan, Stinson, & Paul Tobias) exactly like that, only Tobias gets his full name. lol

Everybody from the original Chin Dem lineup but Pitman & Dizzy ?

 

 

The Absurd credits are even stranger Rose( Hudson, McKagan, & Reed)

This seems more like some weird inner band politics to try and keep everyone happy, than who actually wrote them

Either that or Slash n Duff time traveled to the late 90s and wrote "Silkworms" before the Chin Dem band.

And what of Bumblefoot?

No credit for his remix of Silkworms that sounds an awful lot like Slash's ABSURD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by RedHook

[AxlRoseCDII]

6 hours ago, RedHook said:

 

That was me that posted it.

 

I don't think the credits are completly accurate as to who actually wrote what.

These are according to Universal Music Publishing Group. I found it last night by looking at the publishing data on the Hard Skool video. (ABSURD is on ASCAP &  Universal and they are both the same)

 

The Hard Skool song writing credits are Rose (Fink, Freese, Hudson, McKagan, Stinson, & Paul Tobias) exactly like that, only Tobias gets his full name. lol

Everybody from the original Chin Dem lineup but Pitman & Dizzy ?

 

 

The Absurd credits are even stranger Rose( Hudson, McKagan, & Reed)

This seems more like some weird inner band politics to try and keep everyone happy, than who actually wrote them

Either that or Slash n Duff time traveled to the late 90s and wrote "Silkworms" before the Chin Dem band.

And what of Bumblefoot?

No credit for his remix of Silkworms that sounds an awful lot like Slash's ABSURD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe part of Pitman’s exit settlement would be he forfeit writing credits on any songs he worked on?

Only this band would have people from 20 years worth of lineups collaborating on songs. If you explained this to anyone else they’d look at you like you’re a fucking nut.

[Blackstar]

6 hours ago, RedHook said:

 

That was me that posted it.

 

I don't think the credits are completly accurate as to who actually wrote what.

These are according to Universal Music Publishing Group. I found it last night by looking at the publishing data on the Hard Skool video. (ABSURD is on ASCAP &  Universal and they are both the same)

 

The Hard Skool song writing credits are Rose (Fink, Freese, Hudson, McKagan, Stinson, & Paul Tobias) exactly like that, only Tobias gets his full name. lol

Everybody from the original Chin Dem lineup but Pitman & Dizzy ?

 

 

The Absurd credits are even stranger Rose( Hudson, McKagan, & Reed)

This seems more like some weird inner band politics to try and keep everyone happy, than who actually wrote them

Either that or Slash n Duff time traveled to the late 90s and wrote "Silkworms" before the Chin Dem band.

And what of Bumblefoot?

No credit for his remix of Silkworms that sounds an awful lot like Slash's ABSURD.

Yes, it's apparent that Slash and Duff getting credits/royalties is part of an agreement. And it makes sense: why would Slash and Duff be willing to re-record songs Axl wrote with others under the name Guns N' Roses without getting credit?

The credits to NuGnR members may actually represent who contributed in writing the songs. But, since Hard Skool is not on ASCAP and the other databases, we don't know the percentage of their contributions. Judging from the shares on Chinese Democracy, it could be just a small share (e.g. Finck has 5% on Shackler's Revenge and Josh Freese 2% on Oh My God):

It makes sense that Dizzy and Pitman don't have credit for Hard Skool, since it's a guitar driven song.

Regarding Absurd:

- Dizzy's share is 30%, according to ASCAP.

- Pitman is not credited either because his contribution was the synth intro (which was gone already in the version with Bumblefoot) or because his rights have been bought out as part of the settlement.

- Bumblefoot seemingly played over an earlier version and, in any case, what he did ("translating" original synth "riffs" into guitar and adding solos) probably doesn't count as songwriting.

[allwaystired]

Just now, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I assume the live recordings are from the 2021 tour, since that's the only tour Absurd and You're Crazy were played on? (I know they played You're Crazy once in 2020 but I doubt they'd want to draw attention to that show... )

SOYL was only played at the last 4 or 5 shows so I guess it's one of those. There was a few decent performances of You're Crazy last year so that's the only live track I'm really interested in, but they only put that one on the CD...

Ah, very good point. I'd forgotten there was a live Absurd on the vinyl. 

My guess then would be that at some point they'll bung out these live tracks, along with Absurd and Hard Skool as 'bonus tracks' on a full length release. 

It's pretty annoying, but I'm certainly not joining Nightrain again just to get one live track.

Hell, they don't seem to have even worked out how to release the single in my country yet, so I'm yet to spend any money on any of the physicals. Which, again, is ludicrous as I only ever listen to and buy physical and this is my favourite band of all time! I'm just not sure I trust A) the official store to deliver and B) international post to deliver. Stuff has got lost in the past. 

[Swedish]

11 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I assume the live recordings are from the 2021 tour, since that's the only tour Absurd and You're Crazy were played on? (I know they played You're Crazy once in 2020 but I doubt they'd want to draw attention to that show... )

SOYL was only played at the last 4 or 5 shows so I guess it's one of those. There was a few decent performances of You're Crazy last year so that's the only live track I'm really interested in, but they only put that one on the CD...

They announced the Hard Skool physical release on the 25th of September, the only show before that date where all four songs (DC, YC, Absurd and SOYL) where played was the show in Columbus, OH on the 23rd so it could very well be that show.

Or it could be compiled from different shows I guess

[Voodoochild]

8 hours ago, RedHook said:

And what of Bumblefoot?

No credit for his remix of Silkworms that sounds an awful lot like Slash's ABSURD.

 

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

- Bumblefoot seemingly played over an earlier version and, in any case, what he did ("translating" original synth "riffs" into guitar and adding solos) probably doesn't count as songwriting.

The song was already reworked with the guitar-centric arrangement before Bumblefoot joined the band, as far as I know. There's Robin's wah guitar after the ABSURD! shouting (it's present on the 2001 live version too) and even Buckethead soloing at the ending, which suggests this was the approach from 2001-2003 already. 

About the guitar translating the synth riff, the 2001 live versions already had that guitar riff too. I think Bumblefoot only played the same stuff and added some leads on that demo.

[oneway23]

Even still, anything like that would most likely be considered accompaniment anyway, and not worthy of a full writing credit, though I suppose that would be at the writers' discretion.

 

Speaking of, I've talked a ton of smack on here and other similar internet watering holes about Axy Waxy over the years, but, it absolutely must be said:

Brothaman was more than generous and fair with those writing credits on CD.

[RedHook]

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 

 

- Bumblefoot seemingly played over an earlier version and, in any case, what he did ("translating" original synth "riffs" into guitar and adding solos) probably doesn't count as songwriting.

 

 

That was kind of my whole point in mentioning.

 

He may not deserve a writing credit for his Remix, but Slash n Duff got one for basically copying it.

[Draguns]

On 1/13/2022 at 4:00 AM, Blackstar said:

Regarding the writing credits for Hard Skool, although it hasn't appeared on ASCAP or any other similar databases yet, I saw on another forum that it appears on the database of Universal Music Publishing (which has Axl's publishing) and the credited writers are Axl, Slash, Duff, Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson and Josh Freese:

https://www.umusicpub.com/us/Digital-Music-Library/search/Hard Skool

So, I suppose that the credits to NuGnR members mean that the song doesn't originate from the 1996 sessions?

On the other hand, the press release said it was written by Axl, so maybe it pre-existed in its basic form and then the NuGnR members helped arrange it, so that's why they get credit.

This is very interesting. I REALLY thought this song came from the 94-96 session. Maybe as you stated there was something basic. Why would this be considered the Jackie Chang song if it wasn't?  Regardless, I still love Hard School. 

[Dean]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:17 PM, RedHook said:

He may not deserve a writing credit for his Remix, but Slash n Duff got one for basically copying it.

I'd guess the reason for that is because Slash and Duff may have negotiated to ensure they'd be compensated/credited on any officially released material regardless of their (lack of) creative input, as people knowing they're back involved will obviously make the purchase knowing they're involved. That will most likely be a running theme with all future releases of Guns N' Roses.

I said elsewhere that having the credits as 'Guns N' Roses' could also mean that some of the alumni may be under that umbrella. If Going Down was officially released and the songwriters were listed as Guns N' Roses, it's possible that Tommy may be thrown in there under GNR too. 

Just my two cents.

[jackparker123]

This is the reply I got from the GNR help email address after asking them to clear up whether the Nightrain membership vinyl is a 12" or a 7" single:

 

Dear Jack,

Thank you for contacting us. Regarding your question, we reviewed the fan club website. The 2022 fan club gift consist of the "Limited-Edition 7" Clear Vinyl". The picture might only be an image to demonstrate the 2022 gift. 

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Jerry

Nightrain Fan Club

 

Going off that maybe it is a 7", but tbh I guess they have no real idea. It appears all they've done is look at the useless website. I wont bother signing up to Nightrain!

[jackparker123]

My reply:

 

Hi Jerry,

Well the picture clearly shows a 12” single.

If a 7” single is definitely what you are offering then the photo on the website should be updated as a matter of urgency as its very misleading.

[Coma16]

7 hours ago, jackparker123 said:

This is the reply I got from the GNR help email address after asking them to clear up whether the Nightrain membership vinyl is a 12" or a 7" single:

 

Dear Jack,

Thank you for contacting us. Regarding your question, we reviewed the fan club website. The 2022 fan club gift consist of the "Limited-Edition 7" Clear Vinyl". The picture might only be an image to demonstrate the 2022 gift. 

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Jerry

Nightrain Fan Club

 

Going off that maybe it is a 7", but tbh I guess they have no real idea. It appears all they've done is look at the useless website. I wont bother signing up to Nightrain!

That can't be right. Russ said it wouldn't fit. And he's an expert.

[DTV88]

6 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

That can't be right. Russ said it wouldn't fit. And he's an expert.

Wow, you’re so funny 

[RussTCB]

13 hours ago, Coma16 said:

That can't be right. Russ said it wouldn't fit. And he's an expert.

You can fit as much music as you want on any size record. It'll sound like shit, but you can do it. 

Also, I never said anything about being any sort of expert on vinyl but I'm glad you think I am

[Coma16]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

You can fit as much music as you want on any size record. It'll sound like shit, but you can do it. 

Also, I never said anything about being any sort of expert on vinyl but I'm glad you think I am

I think you're an expert, or at least the best expert we have on this forum. But let's not pretend that you didn't say it wasn't a 7" or that there wasn't enough space.

"There isn't enough room on a 7" single for the music they're saying will be on there. 

The term "7" single" is an obvious typo. 

 

Thej again, what would the vinyl collectors know on this site, right?"

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

I think you're an expert, or at least the best expert we have on this forum. But let's not pretend that you didn't say it wasn't a 7" or that there wasn't enough space.

"There isn't enough room on a 7" single for the music they're saying will be on there. 

The term "7" single" is an obvious typo. 

 

Thej again, what would the vinyl collectors know on this site, right?"

A typical 7" single is at 45rpm. There wouldn't be room for the music they're saying is on there at 45rpm. Could they do it at 33rpm? Sure, but it'll be most likely cause a degradation in sound quality, which is why people rarely do it. On top of that, they obviously put a picture of a 12" single in the photo as a mock up. 

I know you know these things, but for whatever reason you chose to argue with me over semantics. GN'R put out a wildly confusing offer, which doesn't help anyone who might be interested in it. That was my point the whole time which again, I'm certain you're aware of. 

[Coma16]

21 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

A typical 7" single is at 45rpm. There wouldn't be room for the music they're saying is on there at 45rpm. Could they do it at 33rpm? Sure, but it'll be most likely cause a degradation in sound quality, which is why people rarely do it. On top of that, they obviously put a picture of a 12" single in the photo as a mock up. 

I know you know these things, but for whatever reason you chose to argue with me over semantics. GN'R put out a wildly confusing offer, which doesn't help anyone who might be interested in it. That was my point the whole time which again, I'm certain you're aware of. 

I dont believe it is semantics. My WS Icky Thump 7 inch and Elvis If I can Dream 7 inch look no different from the fanclub image (granted, they are both 45rpm). You continued to state they made a typo and it was, in fact, a 12 inch record, which likely caused more confusion. Time will tell what it actually is. I'm just glad they're finally offering physical music as part of the fanclub.

[RussTCB]

16 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

I dont believe it is semantics. My WS Icky Thump 7 inch and Elvis If I can Dream 7 inch look no different from the fanclub image (granted, they are both 45rpm). You continued to state they made a typo and it was, in fact, a 12 inch record, which likely caused more confusion. Time will tell what it actually is. I'm just glad they're finally offering physical music as part of the fanclub.

Lord be with me.....the picture they used for the original 7" HS single is a 7" record. The picture they used for the Nightrain exclusive record is a 12" record. Those are facts, which is why I started them. 

[DTV88]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

Lord be with me.....the picture they used for the original 7" HS single is a 7" record. The picture they used for the Nightrain exclusive record is a 12" record. Those are facts, which is why I started them. 

It’s like talking to a brick wall ain’t it?

[RussTCB]

Just now, DTV88 said:

It’s like talking to a brick wall ain’t it?

Unfortunately, yes. I'm sure that's the goal, so it's my fault for feeding into it. 

[Atlas19]

Hey, it looks like the Hard Skool EP is coming faster than the original release date. The new shipping dates in the official merch is January 28th now, for all 3 formats, cd, cassete and vinyl

https://gnrmerch.com/products/hard-skool-cd

[Dean]

2 hours ago, Atlas19 said:

Hey, it looks like the Hard Skool EP is coming faster than the original release date. The new shipping dates in the official merch is January 28th now, for all 3 formats, cd, cassete and vinyl

https://gnrmerch.com/products/hard-skool-cd

Tremendous. Really looking forward to dropping Hard Skool on the turntable. Thanks for letting us know, Team Brazil should hire you as an SLO!