Motivation or vocal issue?

[Neider]

8 hours ago, WVsax27 said:

it is kind of interesting we have had "what's wrong with Axl's voice?!" posts since 2001 with the period that he sounded "good" becoming later and later each time. 

What I will say has nothing to do with what you say, but, if Axl currently sang like in 2001, he would definitely still be said to be the best singer in the world. Yes, 2001 is not very strong like 2006-10, but what notes and screams Axl threw in 2001, HoB was an incredible show. And well, a lot of people are looking back so I’m glad Axl years like 2006-10 are vindicated, even 2001-02 and, 2016 or his voice on Live Era.

[hudsonsaul]

13 hours ago, jafeijo said:

Lack of vocal coach, in 2016 he was on both tours teamed up with Ron Anderson. 

Wow had no idea Ron Anderson toured with them. That's huge news to me. I remember talk of him having had a vocal coach leading up to the tour though, again didn't know it was Anderson. 

Myles Kennedy used him for a dozen or so lessons too and can't say anything but great things. 

[megaguns1982]

I believe that he could still sing pretty good in a studio setting. I just wish they’d be a studio band, give up the touring and just headline some festivals around the world a few times a year

Edited September 30, 2021 by megaguns1982

[jamillos]

16 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

I believe that he could still sing pretty good in a studio setting. I just wish they’d be a studio band, give up the touring and just headline some festivals around the world a few times a year

Exactly. Bands like this normally tour for about two years and then resort to studio work or just chilling and writing. Guns tour the same stuff (with minor alternations) for years on, even decades. 
Axl gave most of what he'd had left in the tank to the AC/DC stint, which is understandable – as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of his dreams – but let’s say the years 2018 and 2019 were completely wasted with the unnecessary continuation of NITL. 
It would be way better if there were no scheduled dates for 2022 and they made an announcement that they’d devote the time to finishing work on the record. Plus release another single or two with a video, give an interview (Axl and Slash together – when was the last time this happened?), play an occasional gig, etc. Show an acoustic footage of one (any) song from a studio or a rehearsal. Say hi to the camera. Ffs. 

[Bansidhe]

52 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

I believe that he could still sing pretty good in a studio setting. I just wish they’d be a studio band, give up the touring and just headline some festivals around the world a few times a year

Pretty sure Rock The Rock was recorded in 2017. Obviously he sounds a bit older than the "classic" material but it's still instantly recognisable as Axl singing. Also, one of the lads involved in the creation of the tune said that he was only in the studio for a few hours for the session so it's not like he took a ludicrous amount of time just for one song.

If he did any other recording around that time then you'd figure it'd be half decent. What he can do at this point though is anyone's guess.

[LAGuns87]

I don't think AC/DC was the most important factor. Those songs are easier to sing and it was only for a year. I think 6 years of touring is the main culprit. You heard the same thing in the old days, and I guess at the end of 11-14 too. Obviously age is always involved and it takes longer to recover. We'll see next summer if there's an improvement.

[jamillos]

10 minutes ago, LAGuns87 said:

I don't think AC/DC was the most important factor. Those songs are easier to sing and it was only for a year. I think 6 years of touring is the main culprit. You heard the same thing in the old days, and I guess at the end of 11-14 too. Obviously age is always involved and it takes longer to recover. We'll see next summer if there's an improvement.

Easier to sing? Are you kidding me? You mean stuff like Back in Black? He was straining it like hell, not to mention he was using rasp usually even in the medium-position songs where he normally doesn't do it with Guns anymore. Of course the long touring is a part of it, but AC/DC absolutely couldn't have not taken a tremendous toll. 

[LAGuns87]

7 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Easier to sing? Are you kidding me? You mean stuff like Back in Black? He was straining it like hell, not to mention he was using rasp usually even in the medium-position songs where he normally doesn't do it with Guns anymore. Of course the long touring is a part of it, but AC/DC absolutely couldn't have not taken a tremendous toll. 

All use of proper rasp probably takes its toll on his voice. But he has never toured this long before. The last time he was years on the road he also sounded like shit after a while. I wouldn't count him out just yet, he just needs a solid break.

[weaponsnflowers]

Show me a singer who is just as old and doing just as hard songs and as much and still having the same voice. Axl's voice is shot, it is what it is.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, LAGuns87 said:

I don't think AC/DC was the most important factor. Those songs are easier to sing and it was only for a year. I think 6 years of touring is the main culprit. You heard the same thing in the old days, and I guess at the end of 11-14 too. Obviously age is always involved and it takes longer to recover. We'll see next summer if there's an improvement.

I've heard this a thousand times, and it's BS. AC/DC is not easier to sing than GNR. Of course there are tough songs in the GNR set, but at least in the GNR set there's a mix of voices going from low, mid and high. In AC/DC 90% of the set is top register and aggressive, it's tough material to sing especially anything from 1980-1991. It's also tuned to standard, so it's that bit higher again than GNR.

Of Course touring for years in a row is also not conducive to excellent vocal health either, but GNR aren't killing themselves! they are flying private, eating well and sleeping well. This isn't a van tour! having said that flying on a regular basis takes it out of you, and a guitar player or other instrumentalist can cope but a singer is subject to how their body feels. 

I think we could all hear it in late 2017 when the wheels started to wobble with the band, they were tired and instead of coming off the road they decided to keep adding dates and subsequently the quality levels started to vary quite a bit. By 2018/19 I think it was boredom and fatigue combined that took a dump on Axls singing and the band sounding a bit shit sometimes.

[Nice Boy]

The only years he has really had an amazing voice are:

85-89, 92-93, 06,10, and AC/DC '16

I think the reason people think it sounds better at concerts than in videos is because when you're in front of the PA the overall barrage of sound doesn't highlight the voice weaknesses, plus the crowd is singing along so you don't hear it clearly. I noticed that when I went for a piss out of the main stadium bowl I could hear the mickeying clearly from that distance, noticeably worse..

Overall the main reasons it's not good anymore are: AC/DC effort took its toll; less motivation to go all out on GnR because it would hurt / totally break his voice; it's not as exciting singing the same old GnR stuff week in week out so tends to go through the motions. That said, I don't think he's deliberately slacking, it's just that he really can't sing it all at full throttle anymore without totally breaking his voice, so he trying to compromise. Plus people still buy tickets. Really though it's become indefensible to charge people for that. Imagine playing a newbie current video and saying yeah this is my favourite singer, he's awesome. They would bee like wtf.

[CAFC Nick]

1 hour ago, LAGuns87 said:

I don't think AC/DC was the most important factor. Those songs are easier to sing and it was only for a year. I think 6 years of touring is the main culprit. You heard the same thing in the old days, and I guess at the end of 11-14 too. Obviously age is always involved and it takes longer to recover. We'll see next summer if there's an improvement.

Sorry I've seen this argument several times here. Is this the general consensus that AC/DC songs are easier to sing?! Axl/DC was the greatest show I've ever seen but Axl had to give 110% to make it that incredible.

[LAGuns87]

12 minutes ago, CAFC Nick said:

Sorry I've seen this argument several times here. Is this the general consensus that AC/DC songs are easier to sing?! Axl/DC was the greatest show I've ever seen but Axl had to give 110% to make it that incredible.

A strong point in favor is the fact that Axl knocked it out the park with AC/DC in a way he has never done with GN'R, certainly not in these last 20 years. Lazy or just easier material for him? I think it goes without saying peak Axl is a notch above Brain Johnson, and that's when those songs were made.

The counter argument is that Axl gave his all for Angus while he has not bothered to do similar for his own band. Does that make sense? He has strong moments with GN'R but nothing that compares to the scream fest he was doing all night every night in AC/DC.

[CAFC Nick]

1 minute ago, LAGuns87 said:

A strong point in favor is the fact that Axl knocked it out the park with AC/DC in a way he has never done with GN'R, certainly not in these last 20 years. Lazy or just easier material for him? I think it goes without saying peak Axl is a notch above Brain Johnson, and that's when those songs were made.

The counter argument is that Axl gave his all for Angus while he has not bothered to do similar for his own band. Does that make sense? He has strong moments with GN'R but nothing that compares to the scream fest he was doing all night every night in AC/DC.

Oh absolutely - not in doubt. I was actually pretty terrified when they announced Axl with AC/DC because I wasn't convinced he could pull it off. Remember hearing the first bit of soundcheck from Portugal and being amazed and then seeing it in the flesh I as utterly blown away for 2 hours. It definitely is a frustration that he gave his absolute all for AC/DC and the perception is that he coasts for GN'R, but I'm so glad I got to see Axl give it 110% and give everything he has.

My point was more that I would say AC/DC songs are generally more vocally challenging than GN'R as its using rasp in an even higher register (e.g. Back in Black, Hells Bells).

[weaponsnflowers]

6 hours ago, Neider said:

What I will say has nothing to do with what you say, but, if Axl currently sang like in 2001, he would definitely still be said to be the best singer in the world. Yes, 2001 is not very strong like 2006-10, but what notes and screams Axl threw in 2001, HoB was an incredible show. And well, a lot of people are looking back so I’m glad Axl years like 2006-10 are vindicated, even 2001-02 and, 2016 or his voice on Live Era.

Yes, the only problem in 2001 was that he didn't have the stamina to sustain the tempo. He was out of breath, but the voice was there.

[LAGuns87]

3 minutes ago, CAFC Nick said:

Oh absolutely - not in doubt. I was actually pretty terrified when they announced Axl with AC/DC because I wasn't convinced he could pull it off. Remember hearing the first bit of soundcheck from Portugal and being amazed and then seeing it in the flesh I as utterly blown away for 2 hours. It definitely is a frustration that he gave his absolute all for AC/DC and the perception is that he coasts for GN'R, but I'm so glad I got to see Axl give it 110% and give everything he has.

My point was more that I would say AC/DC songs are generally more vocally challenging than GN'R as its using rasp in an even higher register (e.g. Back in Black, Hells Bells).

That is true but the high register doesn't seem to be Axl's problem. It's the mid tones and using the rasp "on low setting". When he screams like say Nightrain, he was doing fantastic up until recent times. On the other hand he has struggled with November Rain because that "soft rasp" is something he can't do as easily anymore.

I think AC/DC certainly contributed to his current state, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he ruined his voice for Angus. As he gets older he will get worse and will take longer to recover from damage. Will he return to "good form"? I don't know. I think so., it will just be a little worse than the previous go around.

[CAFC Nick]

4 minutes ago, LAGuns87 said:

That is true but the high register doesn't seem to be Axl's problem. It's the mid tones and using the rasp "on low setting". When he screams like say Nightrain, he was doing fantastic up until recent times. On the other hand he has struggled with November Rain because that "soft rasp" is something he can't do as easily anymore.

I think AC/DC certainly contributed to his current state, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he ruined his voice for Angus. As he gets older he will get worse and will take longer to recover from damage. Will he return to "good form"? I don't know. I think so., it will just be a little worse than the previous go around.

Agree re: current state. Not sure he can come back from where he is - but - if you had told me in back 2014 that in 2016 he would sing for AC/DC and sound genuinely like he did in the early 90s I never would've believed you 

[Gold top 78]

IMO the AC/DC shows blew Axl’s vocals and he’s never recovered. It was frustrating that he never brought that level of vocals to the GNR shows especially at the early stages of a reunion. But with that said even after how it’s all turned out in regards to Axl’s vocals,  it was the right thing at the time for him as it put him back in the spotlight again in a good way. 

As for it being motivation this leg is the happiest Axl has been for many years so I don’t see that being the problem as such. His voice is what it is unfortunately 

[jafeijo]

5 hours ago, hudsonsaul said:

Wow had no idea Ron Anderson toured with them. That's huge news to me. I remember talk of him having had a vocal coach leading up to the tour though, again didn't know it was Anderson. 

Myles Kennedy used him for a dozen or so lessons too and can't say anything but great things. 

  The guy is a legend indeed. I’m a singer too and dream of taking one of his courses. I’m not too sure he was 100% on tour with Guns N Roses but  I remember seeing photos of him watching the concerts and with Axl in 2016 and the captions would refer Axl as his “lifetime student”.

edit: found the pictures

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by jafeijo

[Tom2112]

25 minutes ago, Gold top 78 said:

IMO the AC/DC shows blew Axl’s vocals and he’s never recovered. It was frustrating that he never brought that level of vocals to the GNR shows especially at the early stages of a reunion. But with that said even after how it’s all turned out in regards to Axl’s vocals,  it was the right thing at the time for him as it put him back in the spotlight again in a good way. 

As for it being motivation this leg is the happiest Axl has been for many years so I don’t see that being the problem as such. His voice is what it is unfortunately 

It was tough to do, but I don't believe it blew his voice. To blow your voice would mean that when he went back on tour with GNR he went to sing and nothing came out or when he sang his voice was cracking in unpredictable places. 2016-2017 he was fine, he wasn't the most powerful we've heard him but he was singing at a high level.

Axl spoke specifically about how challenging AC/DC was to sing and how it could damage his voice if he did it wrong... that's why he paid to have Ron Anderson help him beforehand.

It is time for Ron to come back and work with Axl again to figure out how to sing some of the GNR songs in a stronger voice. He sounds bad on a few songs, he sounds better on some others that he hasn't sand well in a long time so all in all it's not time to drop the curtain.

[Blackstar]

7 hours ago, hudsonsaul said:

Wow had no idea Ron Anderson toured with them. That's huge news to me. I remember talk of him having had a vocal coach leading up to the tour though, again didn't know it was Anderson. 

Myles Kennedy used him for a dozen or so lessons too and can't say anything but great things. 

 

1 hour ago, jafeijo said:

  The guy is a legend indeed. I’m a singer too and dream of taking one of his courses. I’m not too sure he was 100% on tour with Guns N Roses but  I remember seeing photos of him watching the concerts and with Axl in 2016 and the captions would refer Axl as his “lifetime student”.

edit: found the pictures

 

Axl had worked with Ron Anderson for the AFD and UYI tours, too.

I don't think Ron Anderson was on tour with AC/DC and GnR, but he attended some shows in 2016 and 2017.

Here is an interview with him talking about Axl:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/vocal-coach-to-the-stars-ron-anderson-and-dr-juan-perez-tell-the-story-behind-voixtex-their-groundbreaking-mobile-and-vr-singing-training-system

[Gold top 78]

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

It was tough to do, but I don't believe it blew his voice. To blow your voice would mean that when he went back on tour with GNR he went to sing and nothing came out or when he sang his voice was cracking in unpredictable places. 2016-2017 he was fine, he wasn't the most powerful we've heard him but he was singing at a high level.

Axl spoke specifically about how challenging AC/DC was to sing and how it could damage his voice if he did it wrong... that's why he paid to have Ron Anderson help him beforehand.

It is time for Ron to come back and work with Axl again to figure out how to sing some of the GNR songs in a stronger voice. He sounds bad on a few songs, he sounds better on some others that he hasn't sand well in a long time so all in all it's not time to drop the curtain.

I suppose your right on Axl not blowing his voice. Between GNR and AC/DC It did take its toll on him I think. There was at least some damage. I agree on bringing Ron back. 

[Zeppelin]

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Rock The Rock. Doing studio takes and singing 3-hour live shows on the spot are two vastly different things. He may have sounded good in 2017 on a studio take, but singing live is a whole different beast. I don't think he's saving his voice anymore. It's just not what it once was. Quite honestly, I'm surprised his voice has lasted this long, even with the questionable live performances. Someone who uses their voice in such a way could've shot it to hell decades ago.

[Tom-Ass]

I don't think it is a motivation problem.... I think he generally goes out there and does the best he can every night.. His voice was an anomaly and time has taken its toll on him.. 

I do think he could prepare a little better though to make up for some of the natural ability he has lost.. I wish he would stop using live shows as rehearsals.. He should practice with the band for a couple weeks before every tour.. Warming up his voice and trying different approaches on songs.. That would also eliminate terrible performances at the start of every tour..  I guess you could say that he could be more motivated in that aspect but I don't think he is giving any less than 100% on stage.. 

[koldbeer2]

39 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

I do think he could prepare a little better though to make up for some of the natural ability he has lost.. I wish he would stop using live shows as rehearsals.. He should practice with the band for a couple weeks before every tour.. Warming up his voice and trying different approaches on songs.. That would also eliminate terrible performances at the start of every tour..  I

I think this is a fair point, its clear that Axl doesn't warm up before tours, he literally rocks up and thinks it will flow. He could get away with that in 1987. He could get away with it in 2006. But in 2021? I think thats not the case anymore and it really shows. 

Even more so given his voice is just a shadow of what it once was. Even fully warmed up and firing his voice is still perhaps only good as an average 2017 show, and that was far weaker than the trademark voice people know Axl for.

As for the different approach, agreed he could do so but people don't want to hear Baritone Sweet Child. Any number of singer could do that with ease. Ultimately people will still take a weaker sounding voice that reaches the notes and still sounds like the song they remember, than a voice that sounds totally different on the song and may as well be a totally different singer.

Perhaps the answer lies in not playing new songs from 22 years ago, focusing on a lower register set with literally a few of the old higher hits (say WTTJ, Paradise City and Sweet Child. Nov Rain is low enough that Axl singing in a lower voice is ok anyway) and...don't say it too loudly...writing NEW music that suits his 2021 voice far more. 

Maybe a setlist with the following songs for Axl to sing (most of these are in the current rotation as well) still plenty of highlight moments in there:

• Welcome to the Jungle
• Sweet Child
• Paradise City
• November Rain
• Patience 
• Knocking (I know!)
• Double Talkin Jive
• Absurd
• Chinese
• Sorry
• Mr Brownstone
• Slither
• Its so Easy
• Down on the Farm
• Seeker (I know!)

Plus new material that suits his current voice.

I think you'd get a pretty good sounding setlist, that sounds decent to the audience and also still has some hits and moments where Axl can break out the higher stuff.

Just thinking out loud!