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Motivation or vocal issue?


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1 hour ago, koldbeer2 said:

I think this is a fair point, its clear that Axl doesn't warm up before tours, he literally rocks up and thinks it will flow. He could get away with that in 1987. He could get away with it in 2006. But in 2021? I think thats not the case anymore and it really shows. 

Even more so given his voice is just a shadow of what it once was. Even fully warmed up and firing his voice is still perhaps only good as an average 2017 show, and that was far weaker than the trademark voice people know Axl for.

As for the different approach, agreed he could do so but people don't want to hear Baritone Sweet Child. Any number of singer could do that with ease. Ultimately people will still take a weaker sounding voice that reaches the notes and still sounds like the song they remember, than a voice that sounds totally different on the song and may as well be a totally different singer.

Perhaps the answer lies in not playing new songs from 22 years ago, focusing on a lower register set with literally a few of the old higher hits (say WTTJ, Paradise City and Sweet Child. Nov Rain is low enough that Axl singing in a lower voice is ok anyway) and...don't say it too loudly...writing NEW music that suits his 2021 voice far more. 

Maybe a setlist with the following songs for Axl to sing (most of these are in the current rotation as well) still plenty of highlight moments in there:

  • Welcome to the Jungle
  • Sweet Child
  • Paradise City
  • November Rain
  • Patience 
  • Knocking (I know!)
  • Double Talkin Jive
  • Absurd
  • Chinese
  • Sorry
  • Mr Brownstone
  • Slither
  • Its so Easy
  • Down on the Farm
  • Seeker (I know!)

Plus new material that suits his current voice.

I think you'd get a pretty good sounding setlist, that sounds decent to the audience and also still has some hits and moments where Axl can break out the higher stuff.

Just thinking out loud!

If that was the setlist then I'd happily not pay 90+ euro to see them. His voice on a bunch of those is hit and miss! 

I get your point about tailoring the set to suit him... but he already does this. The songs are structured in a way to ease into the set. 

There's a way to gracefully age and continue singing live, he's kinda doing it now though. I think we need to reasonable with our expectations that he could or should sound like Axl from 5/10yrs ago. It's a depreciating commodity the voice, and Axl doesn't hold back live. He may not always sound good, but I believe he is really trying to 90% of the time.

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5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 

Axl had worked with Ron Anderson for the AFD and UYI tours, too.

I don't think Ron Anderson was on tour with AC/DC and GnR, but he attended some shows in 2016 and 2017.

Here is an interview with him talking about Axl:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/vocal-coach-to-the-stars-ron-anderson-and-dr-juan-perez-tell-the-story-behind-voixtex-their-groundbreaking-mobile-and-vr-singing-training-system

. “But I have to say Axl Rose’s voice is amazing, truly one of a kind. I’ve changed hundreds of singers in terms of tone and technique over the years, though he definitely tops the list. I was there for a lot of the classic Guns N’ Roses years and tours, which was pretty wild!” 

Axl was once the Best singer in the world no doubt about it. In his prime was untouchable

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2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I get your point about tailoring the set to suit him... but he already does this. The songs are structured in a way to ease into the set. 

I think with the set I put up there is a tacit acknowledgement that for an effective 'legacy' band there are songs that Axl HAS to play to satisfy the causals, sadly most of those are ones he is shakey on.

As for your point about the current set, I feel in some ways its the opposite, he has front loaded the concert with easy stuff, then has a run of really tough songs. If he was to be more careful you'd do a tricky song, followed by an easier song to help get the wind back so to speak.

Take the first 9 songs that Axl sings and how difficult they are for Axl in terms of what we know (low end + modestly high end is still decent, esp clean, mid range and raspy is now bad. I've rated out of 3 (1 easy, 3 hardest):

  1. ISE - easy for Axl I'd say. 1
  2. Brownstone - Easy again. 1
  3. Chinese - Easy, maybe a little stretching in the chorus 1
  4. Slither - Easy overall, though the chorus is getting towards that mid range weakness. 1
  5. DTJ - Easy 1
  6. Jungle - Axl does well generally, but yeah, a more difficult song for sure outside of the screams due to the vocal register changes. 3
  7. Better - Definately difficult given the mid range stuff! 3
  8. Estranged - Not too difficult overall, though again does go into the mid range at times which sounds weak in the 2nd half of the song. 2
  9. LALD - middle of the range song I'd say. 2

Overall - 15

Now the next 9 songs Axl sings on, lets compare with how they go:

  1. Crazy - Another middle of the range song, though erring more onto the difficult side, but Axl does a good job these days. 2
  2. Rocket Queen - Pretty tricky, lots of mid range stuff which is weaker these days. 3
  3. YCBM - I mean do I need to say anything else? Very difficult. 3
  4. Absurd - Pretty easy. 1
  5. Hard Skool - Tough for sure! 3
  6. Coma - Very difficult again. 3
  7. Civil War - Difficult. 3
  8. Sweet Child - Tricky again due to mid range. 2
  9. November Rain - Middle of the ground type difficulty. 2

Overall - 22

Of course this is all IMO. 

However I think for example Axl would hugely benefit from not having to sing Hard Skool, Coma and Civil War one after another. If he was wise he'd chuck an easy song between one of them.

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On 9/29/2021 at 5:48 PM, SoulMonster said:

I think it is a mix of reasons:

- For GN'R he has settled on easier way to sing certain demanding songs with less distortion. Work-arounds. That's a decision he can make for his own music but as a guest vocalist for another band he has to do whatever he can to be faithful to the originals.

- Axl pushed himself vocally when he came up with the vocal melodies for many GN'R songs. he wrote parts that was challenging to him, because he wanted the songs to be as great as possible. Unfortunately, this means that now that he has gotten older and his voice isn't as malleable and flexible as it was when he was younger, some of these vocal melodies have gotten too difficult. For AC/DC songs, although definitely challenging in their own ways, it worked better with his current voice.

- Axl probably got extra motivated when doing AC/DC and was more willing to take risks of hurting his voice. It was important for him to give it all he got. He knew bad performances would be terrible for his "legacy', if you will.

Good post.  Agree with all of this.

He is very comfortable singing hies own songs and has made them more 'comfortable' over the years.

He was more motivated working with AC/DC and eager to impress a brand new set of fans who weren't necessarily fans of him.  I think he did a good job.

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On 9/29/2021 at 6:53 PM, MrMojo said:

It's just strained. Saying that, 2013 was one of the weakest years of his career. If he can come back from that I think he can come back from this. A break, vocal coach and trying would help greatly. It'll never be peak but I think it Coul come close.

Has he just not had an 18 month break because of Covid cancellations? I think his current ability give or take some minor tweaks is basically as good as we’re going to get

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2 hours ago, koldbeer2 said:

I think with the set I put up there is a tacit acknowledgement that for an effective 'legacy' band there are songs that Axl HAS to play to satisfy the causals, sadly most of those are ones he is shakey on.

As for your point about the current set, I feel in some ways its the opposite, he has front loaded the concert with easy stuff, then has a run of really tough songs. If he was to be more careful you'd do a tricky song, followed by an easier song to help get the wind back so to speak.

Take the first 9 songs that Axl sings and how difficult they are for Axl in terms of what we know (low end + modestly high end is still decent, esp clean, mid range and raspy is now bad. I've rated out of 3 (1 easy, 3 hardest):

  1. ISE - easy for Axl I'd say. 1
  2. Brownstone - Easy again. 1
  3. Chinese - Easy, maybe a little stretching in the chorus 1
  4. Slither - Easy overall, though the chorus is getting towards that mid range weakness. 1
  5. DTJ - Easy 1
  6. Jungle - Axl does well generally, but yeah, a more difficult song for sure outside of the screams due to the vocal register changes. 3
  7. Better - Definately difficult given the mid range stuff! 3
  8. Estranged - Not too difficult overall, though again does go into the mid range at times which sounds weak in the 2nd half of the song. 2
  9. LALD - middle of the range song I'd say. 2

Overall - 15

Now the next 9 songs Axl sings on, lets compare with how they go:

  1. Crazy - Another middle of the range song, though erring more onto the difficult side, but Axl does a good job these days. 2
  2. Rocket Queen - Pretty tricky, lots of mid range stuff which is weaker these days. 3
  3. YCBM - I mean do I need to say anything else? Very difficult. 3
  4. Absurd - Pretty easy. 1
  5. Hard Skool - Tough for sure! 3
  6. Coma - Very difficult again. 3
  7. Civil War - Difficult. 3
  8. Sweet Child - Tricky again due to mid range. 2
  9. November Rain - Middle of the ground type difficulty. 2

Overall - 22

Of course this is all IMO. 

However I think for example Axl would hugely benefit from not having to sing Hard Skool, Coma and Civil War one after another. If he was wise he'd chuck an easy song between one of them.

Well Axl structures the set based on how he's feeling so maybe he thinks they aren't too difficult the way they are, I mean he's been doing it mostly the same way fir the past 5 yrs. I agree though that I general you should scatter the hard sings and save some "easier" songs for breaks start middle  and near the end.

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On 9/30/2021 at 6:51 AM, Nice Boy said:

The only years he has really had an amazing voice are:

85-89, 92-93, 06,10, and AC/DC '16

I think the reason people think it sounds better at concerts than in videos is because when you're in front of the PA the overall barrage of sound doesn't highlight the voice weaknesses, plus the crowd is singing along so you don't hear it clearly. I noticed that when I went for a piss out of the main stadium bowl I could hear the mickeying clearly from that distance, noticeably worse..

Overall the main reasons it's not good anymore are: AC/DC effort took its toll; less motivation to go all out on GnR because it would hurt / totally break his voice; it's not as exciting singing the same old GnR stuff week in week out so tends to go through the motions. That said, I don't think he's deliberately slacking, it's just that he really can't sing it all at full throttle anymore without totally breaking his voice, so he trying to compromise. Plus people still buy tickets. Really though it's become indefensible to charge people for that. Imagine playing a newbie current video and saying yeah this is my favourite singer, he's awesome. They would bee like wtf.

What was wrong with his voice in 1991? He also toured in 2007, was his voice noticeably worse than 2006?

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1 hour ago, mystery said:

What was wrong with his voice in 1991?

Axl’s voice in 1991 is very rare and I understand that someone does not like it—the truth is that I am not a fan of his voice that year. That rasp was exaggerated, his voice was nothing like that of 1985-87 and he sounded out of tune in many songs, but that served him as practice to improve and already in the shows of December 1991, and 1992-93, to sing in a way brutal (although in my opinion, not better than in 1985-87, nor in 1988 that was already different.)

About 2007, it was also a good year but it was not what it was in 2006. I think 2007 was a midpoint between his voice from 2002 and 2006, so without being as good as 06, it is pretty decent and better than any year since 2011. Don’t Cry 2007 with his clean voice sounded on fire (not Mickey, as since 2011.)

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Speaking of the topic of the post, I don’t focus on Axl singing with his raspy voice, but on how little breath and stamina he has to sing. I could forgive him for giving up rasp and only using it in a few songs, if he had good cardio and sang without tiring like that. And no, his weight has nothing to do with it—in 2010 he had good resistance, and weighed much more, but for years (and in 2001 too, which was great but he was short of breath) he can’t hold the verses and I think it’s something of loitering on his part. With a good cardiorespiratory capacity, I think he would sing decently and not those short verses that are sometimes not understood…

He’s almost 60, but it’s sad that he has wasted so many years of his career out of loftiness, laziness, selflessness, or for whatever reasons. Can you imagine an animal Axl for professionalism? Something like Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, who even being very old in their sport, are still there at the top despite their age and deficiencies.

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I believe he loves touring and he improves his voice on board. Just a reminder how was this voice in mexico (the last show until de covid stuff). I was so excited to hear that shit in Lollapalooza 2020 in Chile.... damn.

So with that argument, next year he will show the mthrfkng rasp.... 

 

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I think it would help if they tuned 1/2 step lower and/or if Axl started exploring his mid and lower range more. Take Slither, for example: he sounds just fine singing the lower parts, but when he tries to shoot upwards it just sounds jarring. There's no reason to sing a VR song higher than Scott. Like many other hard rock singers who are not naturally high tenors and that relied too much on their extended range (e.g., Ian Gillan), his head voice and mixed voice sound kinda funny without the rasp and the power to mask it (the Mickey effect). That, coupled with the nasality and the loss of control and resilience that come with age, makes it too much of a gamble to use that register for most of the set.

I really think he should reconsider his whole approach to his material, in short. Ofc, the fact that he built his entire career on his high-pitched rasp doesn't help, and I'm not saying he should shy away from all the high notes (which he can mostly still hit to be honest), just that he should save his high range as much as possible. He's exposing himself too much. To be honest, sound-wise he's the weakest link in the band live atm.

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34 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

GNR's plan for new music being Slash and Duff re-working anything that already has a 20 year old vocal track on it sounds to me like they're trying to work around Axl's present day voice.

 

Then again, it seems like it was always hell to get Axl to lay a vocal down in the studio, unless the Lonney Tunes ask nicely. Even if he could sound like that nowadays (which he might), getting him to re-do vocals would likely stretch the process a few decades more...

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I just watched You Could Be Mine from Raleigh and thought Axl was fine. That’s what his voice is now and at least he’s gone back to singing all the lines. Coma wasn’t embarrassing either.

He also looks great at the moment. A lot fitter than 2019/2020 anyway and the short hair actually suits him now.

I don’t have a problem going to see this show next year when they make their way across the pond. It would be nice if things could be like the old days but they can’t.

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3 hours ago, Modano09 said:

GNR's plan for new music being Slash and Duff re-working anything that already has a 20 year old vocal track on it sounds to me like they're trying to work around Axl's present day voice.

 

I think it's probably because Axl has always wanted to release this stuff anyway and was going to whoever was in the band. Lack of new vocals is down to him not feeling like he needs to as the takes are good enough.

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2 minutes ago, Alexmee239 said:

This comment says all about the quality and standards of 2021 shows. 

I poked fun at that comment but there 2021 shows are just fine..  The overwhelming majority leave the shows very impressed.. There is also more to the shows than Axl's voice which is still good enough on the majority of the songs. 

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Someone on here said that he seems to have bad breath and control which I agree with, I also think he doesn't really rehearse which is a consequence of that. I've said before I think it's entirely possible he's done damage, but the way he sounds sometimes doesn't make me think damage, it just sounds like he hasn't put effort into sounding the best he can. Obviously I understand he's not going to, so this is what we have, still, that doesn't take away the reality imo.

There's been a notable improvement recently, but the things I said above still apply tbh.

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I'm starting to think his voice is simply shot after too many years of touring. He's been almost constantly on the road since 2009. Especially in the last 5 years he's been busy. I think he simply needs a break. More than 18 months. Hopefully we see a positive change next summer, but if he's planning to keep on with this tour schedule there is nothing to save it long term. They should take a 5 year break from touring then do a last big one with hopefully improved vocals.

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18 minutes ago, LAGuns87 said:

I'm starting to think his voice is simply shot after too many years of touring. He's been almost constantly on the road since 2009. Especially in the last 5 years he's been busy. I think he simply needs a break. More than 18 months. Hopefully we see a positive change next summer, but if he's planning to keep on with this tour schedule there is nothing to save it long term. They should take a 5 year break from touring then do a last big one with hopefully improved vocals.

Just like most other aging singers he is just losing his voice..  I don't think taking 5 years off would be any better than the last year and a half he took off..  A 5 year break is insane.. Who knows if they will all still be healthy and able to perform at that point.. I can't see a 65 year old Axl sounding better any than he does now.. His voice will never be the same but he is still good enough that his voice isn't ruining shows for people.. They still put on awesome shows. 

I think preperation and practice is what he could benefit from the most. Work on ways to compensate for the areas where he struggles..

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3 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Just like most other aging singers he is just losing his voice..  I don't think taking 5 years off would be any better than the last year and a half he took off..  A 5 year break is insane.. Who knows if they will all still be healthy and able to perform at that point.. I can't see a 65 year old Axl sounding better any than he does now.. His voice will never be the same but he is still good enough that his voice isn't ruining shows for people.. They still put on awesome shows. 

I think preperation and practice is what he could benefit from the most. Work on ways to compensate for the areas where he struggles..

He has been losing his voice since 1986, but he still sounded a lot better just a few years ago than he does now. That suggests fatigue. It reminds me of what we saw on the Illusion tour. He recovered from that albeit with a worse voice.

Okay five years is overkill but he should take a break or at least do fewer shows. Shouldn't need the money anymore, not the other guys either. "Only" pulling home 10-20 million a year should be doable instead of the 50 or whatever they are getting now, but what do I know.  

I don't understand why a seasoned singer should need practice. The dude knows how to sing if the voice is there. He's already compensating but there's only so much you can do there.

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17 minutes ago, LAGuns87 said:

I don't understand why a seasoned singer should need practice. The dude knows how to sing if the voice is there. He's already compensating but there's only so much you can do there.

Oh man... I don't have enough to reply to this one right now!!!  :)

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