Did we back the wrong horse in our support/belief of Axl over Slash?

[vloors]

On 12/6/2021 at 7:36 PM, SoulMonster said:

No one can deny that Slash is prolific. But that doesn't matter much if you don't particularly care for his output. Not saying it is bad, there are definitely a few gems here and there, just that on average it is bland and although his music may resemble Appetite the most, it comes far short in quality and desperately lack the guitar interplay with Izzy and Axl's vocals. 

My opinion only. The Slash solo self titled album and the velvet revolver first album were both way better than CD and has far more playability. CD I pull out every now and then. Get disappointed at what could of been and pack it back away. It has nothing appealing for me. Maybe a few gems here and there but thats it 😀 

[vloors]

On 12/8/2021 at 5:17 PM, Rovim said:

Slash left cause he thought he could come back cause he couldn't envision Gn'R going on without him imo. Maybe as a power play. I don't believe it was all on Axl and Slash was innocent of sabotaging what they had.

Slash like most of the other Ex gnr members through the years had left because of one red head band members actions or lack of them.

[ronartest2004]

It’s pretty obvious if you listen to anyone who was around Axl during the “quiet years” that he had writers block. And even when Axl was able to write he couldn’t write a hook.

 

But on the other side of the coin IMO Slash didn’t put out anything that made me think Axl was missing much without him.

 

In Axls defense I think that every year that passed the expectations of CD grew more and more to a point that it would’ve been impossible to reach what people had expected from it. But again on the other side of the coin when you have TB dangling possible new music in front of the fans in their typical passive aggressive ways (pre-cd release) you kind of inflict some of the wounds on yourselves.

 

IMO I enjoy CD more than anything Slash did outside of his GNR work. I do believe in quality of quantity when it comes to music. 

[Rovim]

22 minutes ago, vloors said:

Slash like most of the other Ex gnr members through the years had left because of one red head band members actions or lack of them.

Slash said he would have done anything Axl wanted him to do creatively, yet he didn't want to share his Fall To Pieces ideas with him. Axl said Slash also didn't want "to work that hard" when it came to finding a way to move forward artistically like Axl wanted Gn'R to do.

[Free Bird]

35 minutes ago, vloors said:

My opinion only. The Slash solo self titled album and the velvet revolver first album were both way better than CD and has far more playability. CD I pull out every now and then. Get disappointed at what could of been and pack it back away. It has nothing appealing for me. Maybe a few gems here and there but thats it 😀 

Add both Snakepits to Slash and Contraband and you have 4 Slash records that are on their own better than CD imo... a best of SMKC would beat CD too.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

39 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Slash said he would have done anything Axl wanted him to do creatively, yet he didn't want to share his Fall To Pieces ideas with him. Axl said Slash also didn't want "to work that hard" when it came to finding a way to move forward artistically like Axl wanted Gn'R to do.

Axl said Slash showed him the key bits of Fall To Pieces but when he showed interest Slash recoiled. The thing, we don't know what exactly Axl meant by showed interest. Did he mean he simply said "hey that's sounds cool, let's work on that"? If so, why would Slash show it to him at all?

It's more likely that Axl wanted to do something to the music that Slash didn't approve of. Slash might have been willing to try industrial but there's a difference between him trying to write industrial riffs and Axl altering the songs he has already written in some fashion. Not to mention Axl was trying to force Slash to work with Paul, a musician he didn't respect.

[Free Bird]

47 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Slash said he would have done anything Axl wanted him to do creatively, yet he didn't want to share his Fall To Pieces ideas with him. Axl said Slash also didn't want "to work that hard" when it came to finding a way to move forward artistically like Axl wanted Gn'R to do.

Well, that's what Axl said. Slash said FTP was written years later. And I think when you go to rehearsals everyday and you never hear your singer sing a note, if he's there at all, you might not be as motivated, as you should.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Free Bird

[Rovim]

16 minutes ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

Axl said Slash showed him the key bits of Fall To Pieces but when he showed interest Slash recoiled. The thing, we don't know what exactly Axl meant by showed interest. Did he mean he simply said "hey that's sounds cool, let's work on that"? If so, why would Slash show it to him at all?

It's more likely that Axl wanted to do something to the music that Slash didn't approve of. Slash might have been willing to try industrial but there's a difference between him trying to write industrial riffs and Axl altering the songs he has already written in some fashion. Not to mention Axl was trying to force Slash to work with Paul, a musician he didn't respect.

why is it more likely? cause that's what you want to have happened? showed interest to me means he wanted to turn it into a Guns song. They've done that sort of thing before I've heard.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Rovim

[Rovim]

24 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Well, that's what Axl said. Slash said FTP was written years later. And I think when you go to rehearsals everyday and you never hear your singer sing a note, if he's there at all, you might not be as motivated, as you should.

Fall To Pieces ideas could have been the spark. It could have turned into a full album so I think it's not exactly like Slash claimed. He didn't do anything Axl wanted him to do. Not industrial, not even a ballad Slash himself came up with. Honestly, that's pathetic.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

11 minutes ago, Rovim said:

why is it more likely? cause that's what you want to have happened? showed interest to me means he wanted to turn it into a Guns song. They've done that sort of thing before I've heard.

What do you mean what I "want to have happened"? My opinion is based on the history of the band and the relationship between the two musicians at the time.

I've defended Axl in regards to his issues with Slash way more times than the other way around over the years, though I've never written hackish and embarrassing essays defending Axl against every criticism as you have done. What a child you are. I won't make the mistake of engaging you again.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

What do you mean what I "want to have happened"? My opinion is based on the history of the band and the relationship between the two musicians at the time.

I've defended Axl in regards to his issues with Slash way more times than the other way around over the years, though I've never written hackish and embarrassing essays defending Axl against every criticism as you have done. What a child you are. I won't make the mistake of engaging you again.

I meant that "as soon as I showed interest" seem to me "yeah, this is great, let's work on it" and Slash put it back into his pocket so to speak, I try to be objective on these matters and I don't believe everything Slash said in his book was true, Axl has said a lot of it never happened. I apologize if I offended you and for my hackish and embarrasing essaying lol

Edited December 12, 2021 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

51 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Fall To Pieces ideas could have been the spark. It could have turned into a full album so I think it's not exactly like Slash claimed. He didn't do anything Axl wanted him to do. Not industrial, not even a ballad Slash himself came up with. Honestly, that's pathetic.

Just because you think something it isn't proof that it happened that way. Though you act like it's a fact. Mature behavior. Keep going.

[Rovim]

7 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Just because you think something it isn't proof that it happened that way. Though you act like it's a fact. Mature behavior. Keep going.

I get that it's maybe a touchy subject, but this is of course how I interpret "showing interest" could be that showing interest meant something else, I just can't think of anything. What, Slash got scared Axl will alter it too much and ruin his ideas or something? unlikely imo.

[Blackstar]

According to Axl, Slash played "the key bits" of Fall to Pieces during the so-called "trial period", which means the last sessions in October 1996. Slash mentioned in his book that Axl liked some of his ideas and recorded them on ProTools for future use. But he also said that, at that time, he didn't know what to do, because if he and Axl worked together, it would mean that Axl's new partnership contract would be effective (which Slash didn't want to happen - whereas, if they didn't,  it would be null and void and Slash wouldn't be bound to it). That was the provision of the "trial contract". So it's likely that Slash was reluctant to work more on ideas. Maybe Axl had recorded those "key bits" on ProTools, so he made the claim knowing he could back it up. Or maybe he hadn't. Who knows.

The theory that Axl might have wanted to turn Slash's ideas into industrial songs is not backed by any facts. Axl has denied that he wanted to change the direction when Slash was still in the band, and Slash never said that Axl wanted to do that with his (Slash's) ideas. IF there were any songs with an "industrial flavour" at that time, that was the"Axl's material" Slash referred to in 1996.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Blackstar

[Dangelus]

4 hours ago, vloors said:

My opinion only. The Slash solo self titled album and the velvet revolver first album were both way better than CD and has far more playability. CD I pull out every now and then. Get disappointed at what could of been and pack it back away. It has nothing appealing for me. Maybe a few gems here and there but thats it 😀 

Yep, Contraband is a perfect rock album. Not a bad song on it. Chinese has its moments but doesn’t hold a candle to VR’s debut.

[NicoRourke]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:41 AM, Towelie said:

How vital would Axl's work be if he'd released an album every 2-3 years since 1993? We'll never know, because Axl simply never had it in him to create music on that level. Slash did though. 

It just might be that Axl created lots of music, that just wasn’t released or even recorded.

Your arguments are a bit too skewed IMO, seems to me that you are biased and therefore not ready for a conversation.

[drlaban]

25 minutes ago, NicoRourke said:

It just might be that Axl created lots of music, that just wasn’t released or even recorded.

Your arguments are a bit too skewed IMO, seems to me that you are biased and therefore not ready for a conversation.

Unreleased music doesn’t count. 

[Nintari]

I don't know. It's probably down to preference. For me, I enjoy epics like Prostitute more than the basic rock tracks that Slash seems to churn out like an Amish girl at a butter churn. Slash's first record had some great songs on it, but after that, it was pretty much just basic stuff, wheres Axl released far less, but far more epic and engrossing pieces of art. So for me, Axl was still the correct pony to bet on.

But I never really took sides. As a matter of fact, I use to defend the original band back when doing so was like shouting shooter in a crowded high school cafeteria. So either way, it's not much an issue.

[North Korean Democracy]

Fuck both of them, Paul Tobias is the man

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Axl is a musical genius… and he’s at his absolute best paired with Slash (IMHO).

Maybe it’s the 2nd part some have come back around to- but it does nothing to change the 1st.

[MaskingApathy]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:11 PM, Draguns said:

When you are are playing in food festivals and not headlining arenas nor stadiums (Slash) after being a guitar icon, that's also an issue.  

Where are you getting this food festival stuff from? On his upcoming tour he's going to be playing 5000 seat theaters in the US and in Europe he's consistently played even larger venues, plus he gets pretty high billing at big festivals (esp the major ones in Europe). In general there's not a lot of solo guitarists that can on their own headline an arena or stadium. 

 

On 12/7/2021 at 9:11 PM, Draguns said:

The biggest business  mistake that Axl made was not letting go of the GNR. If he had put the name on hiatus and have gone solo, I think he would have been successful in creating music that went into different genres. 

I agree with this.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 2:59 PM, SoulMonster said:

Classic 

He doesn't know who he's talking to 

[WhazUp]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:11 PM, Draguns said:

The biggest business  mistake that Axl made was not letting go of the GNR. If he had put the name on hiatus and have gone solo, I think he would have been successful in creating music that went into different genres. 

Yeah for sure.  Honestly I think in retrospect the only thing Axl had to gain from keeping the brand, was the funding and big name attached to it.  But when you think about all the stuff that hindered his project:

-  Constantly being told this isn't the "real GNR"

- Legal issues constantly due to the GNR name

-  Getting flack if you musically deviate too much from what the general public considered to be GNR's music DNA

-  Pressure to deliver music that could stand next to AFD and the Illusions

 

Axl really had no chance to really ever realistically be on par with GNR, with his version of GNR.  At least being solo would have freed his own mind from most of that and he would have been free to do anything

[Bitchisback]

Only one of these men played with the legendary DJ ASHBA tho