Covid-19 Thread

[SoulMonster]

32 minutes ago, action said:

then why did that popular chinese doctor die? he was young and healthy, to my eyes

I didn't say you had to be old or sick to die to from this virus. I said if you aren't, then there's no need to be afraid. Dying from this this disease if you are young is extremely unlikely. We have the stats that prove that. 

As for this specific doctor, I wouldn't trust your eyes, or mine, on whether he was immunocompromised. Maybe he was just so heavily exposed to the virus that they broke through his defenses? This is just speculation on my part, though, I haven't read on his case.

[action]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't say you had to be old or sick to die to from this virus. I said if you aren't, then there's no need to be afraid. Dying from this this disease if you are young is extremely unlikely. We have the stats that prove that. 

As for this specific doctor, I wouldn't trust your eyes, or mine, on whether he was immunocompromised. Maybe he was just so heavily exposed to the virus that they broke through his defenses? This is just speculation on my part, though, I haven't read on his case.

the weird part is, some young and healthy people don't have any symptoms at all, while others are sick to death. There doesn't seem to be conclusive data about just how deadly this virus is. I think that's why most people are panicking now: we don't know much about this specific virus. we don't even know exactly how long it survives outside the body. which, more than two months after outbreak, is a bit mind boggling

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, action said:

the weird part is, some young and healthy people don't have any symptoms at all, while others are sick to death. There doesn't seem to be conclusive data about just how deadly this virus is. I think that's why most people are panicking now: we don't know much about this specific virus. we don't even know exactly how long it survives outside the body. which, more than two months after outbreak, is a bit mind boggling

There are always lots that is unknown about new virus-borne diseases. Naturally. That's why, when we first started discussing this disease here on mygnrforum, I compared it to other recent zoonotic outbreaks and said it would likely not be anything to worry about. Because that's what past outbreaks have told us. Ebola has killed a few thousands, swine flu has killed 200-500k, AIDS has killed 32 million. I guessed that this virus would kill a few hundred (if I remember correctly). I was obviously wrong and it will likely exceed 100k. But it is still no reason to panic. It simply isn't a significant threat (unless you are immunocompromised, old and sick, and also happen to be exposed to the virus). 

We are starting to learn quite a bit about the disease and its fatality and spread. The data is becoming sufficient. We know what the probability is of dying from it if you are infected, based on all the date we have. 

As for how long it survives outside a host. It is not strange this isn't known yet, such things are very difficult to study. In general, virology isn't an easy subject. It will probably take qutie a long time still before we know these things for certain. If you feel this is mind-boggling them become a virologist yourself and do something about it, or petition politicians to spend more money on virus research, or donate money to research institutes. 

[action]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

There are always lots that is unknown about new virus-borne diseases. Naturally. That's why, when we first started discussing this disease here on mygnrforum, I compared it to other recent zoonotic outbreaks and said it would likely not be anything to worry about. Because that's what past outbreaks have told us. Ebola has killed a few thousands, swine flu has killed 200-500k, AIDS has killed 32 million. I guessed that this virus would kill a few hundred (if I remember correctly). I was obviously wrong and it will likely exceed 100k. But it is still no reason to panic. It simply isn't a significant threat (unless you are immunocompromised, old and sick, and also happen to be exposed to the virus). 

We are starting to learn quite a bit about the disease and its fatality and spread. The data is becoming sufficient. We know what the probability is of dying from it if you are infected, based on all the date we have. 

As for how long it survives outside a host. It is not strange this isn't known yet, such things are very difficult to study. In general, virology isn't an easy subject. It will probably take qutie a long time still before we know these things for certain. If you feel this is mind-boggling them become a virologist yourself and do something about it, or petition politicians to spend more money on virus research, or donate money to research institutes. 

I want to treat my mouth mask with this, after use. Mouth masks are sold out everywhere so I need to find ways to re-use them. I wear mouth masks when in a general store, and I don't care if I get weird looks for this practise. would this spray kill the virus? (it contains chlohexidine digluconate)

Edited February 27, 2020 by action

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, action said:

I want to treat my mouth mask with this, after use. Mouth masks are sold out everywhere so I need to find ways to re-use them. I wear mouth masks when in a general store, and I don't care if I get weird looks for this practise. would this spray kill the virus? (it contains chlohexidine digluconate)

Face masks doesn't really help much, unless when you are sick to stop infecting others: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-face-mask-symptoms-prevent-protect/
 

Quote

 

But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says it "does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19."

"Facemasks should be used by people who show symptoms of COVID-19 to help prevent the spread of the disease to others," the CDC's website says. "The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."  

 

I don't know that product but I assume it would work. The most effective thing you can do, though, to prevent any virus infection, so it works on the common cold and flu also, is to simply wash your hands more frequently and especially before touching your nose, eyes or mouth. It spreads more effective through touch than through air.

Edited February 27, 2020 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Those masks make you look like a complete twonk. I once saw somebody, a Chinaman naturally, walking around Durham with one on. 

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, action said:

then why did that popular chinese doctor die?
he was young and healthy, to my eyes

I thought you were telling a joke for about 10 seconds there.  

[action]

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Those masks make you look like a complete twonk. I once saw somebody, a Chinaman naturally, walking around Durham with one on. 

I used such a mask today when I went to the grocery store. I felt like a criminal. Then, there was this old lady that avoided me as if I carried the plague. The shopkeeper could barely contain his laugh.

You tend to wonder: am I going crazy or what?

Still, you never know. One of them may already be carrying the disease, without knowing.

My father in law usually is the most temperate person you can think of, laughing with this kind of stuff. But still, when he saw the packets of masks on my table, he couldn't be quick enough to grab one for himself.

I'd say, the jury is still out on how ridiculous these masks really are.

4 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I thought you were telling a joke for about 10 seconds there.  

a chinese, a german and an italian walk into the pub,...

oh, never mind

[SoulMonster]

14 minutes ago, action said:

I used such a mask today when I went to the grocery store. I felt like a criminal. Then, there was this old lady that avoided me as if I carried the plague. The shopkeeper could barely contain his laugh.

You tend to wonder: am I going crazy or what?

Still, you never know. One of them may already be carrying the disease, without knowing.

My father in law usually is the most temperate person you can think of, laughing with this kind of stuff. But still, when he saw the packets of masks on my table, he couldn't be quick enough to grab one for himself.

I'd say, the jury is still out on how ridiculous these masks really are.

No, the jury is in and they are ridiculous. You could perhaps say that the jury is stil out regarding their efficacy in preventing getting infected, but alas, they don't really make much change. As I said, the normal way of getting infected is getting the virus on your hands and then touching your face. Direct spread through the air is much more rare because apparently the virus hasn't got wings. So using such face masks when you are not sick has limited value, whereas it is really a good thing to do if you are already sick, because then you won't go coughing and sneezing and slobbering the virus onto surfaces where other people can get in contact with it.

That's why it is recommended that Welsh people wash their hand after fisting their favorite ewe. We don't want sheep flu to be a thing. Okay, that was totally random and irrelevant.

[action]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

No, the jury is in and they are ridiculous. You could perhaps say that the jury is stil out regarding their efficacy in preventing getting infected, but alas, they don't really make much change. As I said, the normal way of getting infected is getting the virus on your hands and then touching your face. Direct spread through the air is much more rare because apparently the virus hasn't got wings. So using such face masks when you are not sick has limited value, whereas it is really a good thing to do if you are already sick, because then you won't go coughing and sneezing and slobbering the virus onto surfaces where other people can get in contact with it.

That's why it is recommended that Welsh people wash their hand after fisting their favorite ewe. We don't want sheep flu to be a thing. Okay, that was totally random and irrelevant.

I know, it's politically incorrect to claim that mouth masks type FFP2 can protect you from contamination through air.

Yesterday on the news, a doctor claimed he had a shortage of masks, and thus did not want to view patients on house visits or in his practise, as he would risk getting infected that way.

Also, the media are claiming that "its no use for the public to wear masks, it doesnt help. It only helps for health care workers". I find that a bit hypocrite. It's not as if these masks protect health workers more than they protect regular public. Either they work, or they don't work. They should make up their mind. 

[Dazey]

25 minutes ago, action said:

I know, it's politically incorrect to claim that mouth masks type FFP2 can protect you from contamination through air.

Yesterday on the news, a doctor claimed he had a shortage of masks, and thus did not want to view patients on house visits or in his practise, as he would risk getting infected that way.

Also, the media are claiming that "its no use for the public to wear masks, it doesnt help. It only helps for health care workers". I find that a bit hypocrite. It's not as if these masks protect health workers more than they protect regular public. Either they work, or they don't work. They should make up their mind. 

The point is not so much that the masks don't protect you from contamination through air but more so that the virus isn't really transmitted through the air. Realistically you wouldn't get it through the air unless somebody coughed directly onto you in which case you'd probably instinctively bring your hands up to wipe your face and thus infect yourself anyway.

Healthcare workers don't generally wear these masks to prevent themselves from getting sick. They are used to prevent the healthcare worker from transmitting to sick people who are vulnerable to infection. If you look at a doctor in surgery they aren't wearing a mask to keep themselves safe, they're doing it to stop them from coughing all over somebody's innards on the operating table.

So basically wear a mask if you're already sick to stop you from spreading it to other people but it's probably useless to anybody else. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Dazey

[SoulMonster]

47 minutes ago, action said:

I know, it's politically incorrect to claim that mouth masks type FFP2 can protect you from contamination through air. 

No, I believe it is factually incorrect to think it helps prevent infections from this virus. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by SoulMonster

[action]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No, I believe it is factually incorrect to think it helps prevent infections from this virus. 

from the link you provided:

"The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."  

"crucial".

don't you agree then, that face masks help to prevent infections, at least health workers?  You're the expert. If you say, "factually incorrect" that face masks prevent infection, then I can accept that, but then I'd like to know from you, in what way do face masks help health workers, if not to avoid infection? why are these masks crucial to them, in your expert opinion?

 

 

[Dazey]

5 minutes ago, action said:

from the link you provided:

"The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."  

"crucial".

don't you agree then, that face masks help to prevent infections, at least health workers?  You're the expert. If you say, "factually incorrect" that face masks prevent infection, then I can accept that, but then I'd like to know from you, in what way do face masks help health workers, if not to avoid infection? why are these masks crucial to them, in your expert opinion

Because they help prevent the healthcare worker from infecting the patient, not the other way around.

[action]

17 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Because they help prevent the healthcare worker from infecting the patient, not the other way around.

isn't the patient infected, by definition? otherwise, he wouldn't be a patient?

[action]

in george orwell's 1984, I guess my opinion would be called "thoughtcrime"

[SoulMonster]

33 minutes ago, action said:

from the link you provided:

"The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility)."  

"crucial".

don't you agree then, that face masks help to prevent infections, at least health workers?  You're the expert. If you say, "factually incorrect" that face masks prevent infection, then I can accept that, but then I'd like to know from you, in what way do face masks help health workers, if not to avoid infection? why are these masks crucial to them, in your expert opinion?

Dazey has already explained this a couple of times now. 

And I am not an expert on viral diseases. I just know more than you. 

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, action said:

in george orwell's 1984, I guess my opinion would be called "thoughtcrime"

No, your question makes sense and most people naturally think facemasks will prevent them from getting sick. So the question is good. 

What you need to do now is absorb what people are telling you. Failure to do so isn't a thoughtcrime, either, but more of an insult, to thoughts, or the concept of thinking. 

[action]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Dazey has already explained this a couple of times now. 

And I am not an expert on viral diseases. I just know more than you. 

so the masks are for health workers to wear.... to prevent sick people from getting sick?

I'm getting some strange readings here

Edited February 27, 2020 by action

[SoulMonster]

Just now, action said:

so the masks are for health workers to wear.... to prevent sick people from getting sick?

 

To prevent hospitalised people picking up new diseases from health care workers, yes. Sick people are extra vulnerable to additional diseases, and hospitals are rife with pathogens. 

[action]

fair enough. I'm not obliging you to wear a mask, but I will continue to do so. It's in my nature of being a ridiculous person. But look at the bright side: it's ridiculous people like me, that make smart people look even smarter, in relative ways.

I'm sure in about two weeks, we'll be talking again. We'll see how things develop, and the facts which will no doubt bring us to new insights. "progressive understanding", they call this.

Edited May 4, 2020 by action

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

13 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Well it's either that or Tiananmen Square 2.0, which would be very damaging for them. Because Hong Kong wants independence, which would be even more damaging. Also if they did do it deliberately they could guestimate the economic outcome as well as control the duration so the cost would really only be a few people getting sick and some temporary economic shuffling around.

Just a passing thought I'm not saying this is the case.

China has to create millions of new jobs every month to keep their population from getting restless (remember, 700 million Chinese still haven't entered industrial society). It's a far bigger threat for their economy to have a severe slow down than some protests in Hong Kong.

[TheSeeker]

 

[action]

17 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

 

I want one of those suits, might as well go all the way

they need it , so I need it too

[action]

ok, obviously I'm joking. but if dazey and soulmonster are to be believed, masks are only needed to prevent the patient from contracting viruses from the health worker. You'd think, a mouth mask would be sufficient in this situation. but in this video, health workers are wearing suits that cover their whole body. Could they explain why that is necessary? I didn't know that a health worker could infect patients with their body.