Covid-19 Thread

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Sometime in May President Biden will declare the end of the covid pandemic.  Well, I'm convinced.  

[Sisyphus]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:53 PM, SoulMonster said:

Again, if I remember correctly, your argument was that the governments used the pandemic to impose restrictions they had no intention to lift when the pandemic was over. You were wrong. Except for China, it seems like most if not all countries have lessened restrictions as a result of people becoming vaccinated. Like I said they would. 

And it is because people have been vaccinated, or been offered to get vaccinated, that "the thing has run its course". Granted, media would likely have written less about it regardless because they do tire of subjects after a while, and it hasn't really "run its course" from an epidemiological perspective since people keep dying from it (although here in Norway only the very weak/old). 

The "experimental potion" is not experimental since it went through rigorous testing before (emergency) approval was granted. You cannot simply keep lying about this and hope reality changes to reflect your opinion. That's not how the world works. You don't have that power. 

As for whether the vaccines had anything to do with whether the disease run its course or not: If you by "run its course" mean that countries came to a point where it was little reason to impose restrictions because people had the offer to get protected through inoculation, then yes, of course the vaccines were the result of that. We could have got to that point without vaccines, too, but then more people would have died and it might have taken longer. 

As for what country "won" (as if this was a competition): That's impossible to say unless we agree on the criteria to use. If we just look at number of Covid-19 related deaths per capita, then I am sure Sweden didn't "win". Besides, you cannot compare countries like this because every country had a different situation, had their own peculiar circumstances. Countries with large cities would logically do less well because social distancing is harder; countries where people fear/distrust governments would logically do less well because it would be harder to get people to get inoculated; etc etc. This is way too complicated for simplistic explanations and comparisons.

The restrictions have been lifted for the most part but the blueprint has been worked out in full detail. 

We're obviously not going to see it eye to eye. But it continues to amaze how you disregard the consequences these past events have had on people in every possible aspect. 

For you it's all about the number of deaths and vaccination rates. And you take every percentage in regards to deaths, "preventable" deaths, and vaccine efficiency at vace value as long as you deem the source credible. But the only credible sources in your eyes are the institutions and private corporations that have been running the show and profited the most from the whole endeavor. 

The percentages in regards to vaccine protection (meaning transmission, chance of developing severe symptoms, duration of protection, efficiency of boosters, etc.) have VARIED greatly. We have been served a monumental amount of different calculations by differenent research facilites as to how effective this potion really is. There are even jokes floating around the internet how the official narrative in regards to level of protection of vaccines changed from one week to another. I'm just calling it like it is.

But if the vaccine is indeed the "saviour", shouldn't countries with lower vaccine rates experience more urges? As early as mid 2021 Forbes reported that four of the five most vaccinated countries are experiencing surges. In my country less than 60% of people are fully vaccinated and covid hasn't been a thing for a while now. No complants in regards to hospitals, no apocalypse whatsoever. And yet China with their 90%+ vaccination rate is facing surges. And China is not an isolated case.

I believe the total lockdowns were a huge mistake (China has gone to extremes and it is backfiring) and the vaccine is just partly (and I'm being generous here) effective.

For the record, I don't think the vaccines didn't do any good. I don't think that vaccines are poison, a tracking device or a plot to murder me in the long run. I don't!

What I do believe though, it that vaccine protection has been overstated and that the vaccine strategy should target vulnerable groups exclusively instead of trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood.

Peace out.

Edited March 6 by Sisyphus

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

The restrictions have been lifted for the most part but the blueprint has been worked out in full detail. 

We're obviously not going to see it eye to eye. But it continues to amaze how you disregard the consequences these past events have had on people in every possible aspect. 

For you it's all about the number of deaths and vaccination rates. And you take every percentage in regards to deaths, "preventable" deaths, and vaccine efficiency at vace value as long as you deem the source credible. But the only credible sources in your eyes are the institutions and private corporations that have been running the show and profited the most from the whole endeavor. 

The percentages in regards to vaccine protection (meaning transmission, chance of developing severe symptoms, duration of protection, efficiency of boosters, etc.) have VARIED greatly. We have been served a monumental amount of different calculations by differenent research facilites as to how effective this potion really is. There are even jokes floating around the internet how the official narrative in regards to level of protection of vaccines changed from one week to another. I'm just calling it like it is.

But if the vaccine is indeed the "saviour", shouldn't countries with lower vaccine rates experience more urges? As early as mid 2021 Forbes reported that four of the five most vaccinated countries are experiencing surges. In my country less than 60% of people are fully vaccinated and covid hasn't been a thing for a while now. No complants in regards to hospitals, no apocalypse whatsoever. And yet China with their 90%+ vaccination rate is facing surges. And China is not an isolated case.

I believe the total lockdowns were a huge mistake (China has gone to extremes and it is backfiring) and the vaccine is just partly (and I'm being generous here) effective.

For the record, I don't think the vaccines didn't do any good. I don't think that vaccines are poison, a tracking device or a plot to murder me in the long run. I don't!

What I do believe though, it that vaccine protection has been overstated and that the vaccine strategy should target vulnerable groups exclusively instead of trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood.

Peace out.

I haven't disregarded any consequences. I acknowledge the restrictions has led to a lot of problems. But there is no doubt in my mind that for the most part they made sense and were right.

I mostly agreed with everything you said except "trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood", which tells me that we live in very different worlds because there hasn't been anything like that here in Norway.

[Whiskey Rose]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I haven't disregarded any consequences. I acknowledge the restrictions has led to a lot of problems. But there is no doubt in my mind that for the most part they made sense and were right.

I mostly agreed with everything you said except "trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood", which tells me that we live in very different worlds because there hasn't been anything like that here in Norway.

I’m curious, did Norway not require those working in hospitals, banks, travel sector, and even some private businesses, to get vaccinated or lose their jobs? 
Could you travel on trains and buses throughout your own country without being vaccinated? 
If you didn’t have these restrictions, you did indeed have a different experience! 

[janrichmond]

1 hour ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I’m curious, did Norway not require those working in hospitals, banks, travel sector, and even some private businesses, to get vaccinated or lose their jobs? 
Could you travel on trains and buses throughout your own country without being vaccinated? 
If you didn’t have these restrictions, you did indeed have a different experience! 

I don't think being vaccinated (in England)was mandatory in any job I'm aware of. I've not read or heard of anyone losing their job. 

[downzy]

Well, covid finally breached my home.  My wife tested positive last week after throwing up and feelings of fatigue. 

We’re pretty sure she got it from my daughter, who likely brought it home from school. 

I’ve felt fine and shown no symptoms.  Every test so far has been negative.  Got a new puppy to wrangle with ten days ago so really hoping I’ve dodged the covid bullet this time. 

[Whiskey Rose]

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

I don't think being vaccinated (in England)was mandatory in any job I'm aware of. I've not read or heard of anyone losing their job. 

Really! Geez, was it just Canada then?! 
Even  where I am now in the US, in a supposedly ‘red’ state, our employer sent out a letter that said we were required to get vaxxed in order to stay employed and made us photocopy our vax cards that went into our file. Now, eventually the threat of unemployment went away and they never did fire anyone who didn’t get it, but they sure were leaning that way in the beginning. 
 

[Whiskey Rose]

Also in Canada, if you were fired because you didn’t follow your employer’s vaccine mandate, not only did you lose your income, but you were also ineligible to receive EI ( our unemployment insurance) because of your refusal.  So I can certainly see how some people felt scared and intimidated into getting the vaccine.  (Moral feelings or issues aside.). 

[Oldest Goat]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

Well, covid finally breached my home.  My wife tested positive last week after throwing up and feelings of fatigue. 

We’re pretty sure she got it from my daughter, who likely brought it home from school. 

I’ve felt fine and shown no symptoms.  Every test so far has been negative.  Got a new puppy to wrangle with ten days ago so really hoping I’ve dodged the covid bullet this time. 

I hope you're all okay.

Side note, I thought it was ridiculous how Woody Harrelson was treated regarding his SNL monologue.

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I’m curious, did Norway not require those working in hospitals, banks, travel sector, and even some private businesses, to get vaccinated or lose their jobs? 
Could you travel on trains and buses throughout your own country without being vaccinated? 
If you didn’t have these restrictions, you did indeed have a different experience! 

I wasn't disagreeing with the fact that restrictions were put in place here in Norway, too, but I disagreed with the usage of "intimidation" and "forcing" towards the "entire population". It's a very negative and bleak way of saying things and aligns with the whole "vaccination is fascism" message that anti-vaxxers want to convey, and I am confident very few Norwegians felt it like that. It's like saying people are intimidated and forced to wear seat belts in cars otherwise we risk fines or even imprisonment. 

That being said, I am sure there were instances of actual intimidation, also here in Norway, towards some people. And more people probably felt intimidated when they suddenly had to adapt to new restrictions in their lives. People don't like being told what to do. 

But as to your question, as far as I am aware, only some healthcare workers had to get vaccinated or could face losing their jobs here in Norway. We don't really have many anti-vaxxers here, especially not in the healthcare system where people know better, and most who did refuse to get vaccinated where simply put doing other tasks no involving patients. This seems to have been a bigger problems in many other parts of the world where there were more anti-vaxxers, even among healthcare workers, causing significant problems.

As for restrictions on travelling: definitely when going abroad, which caused big problems to me personally and to my work. I didn't feel "intimidated" about it, though. We were also advised against travelling on public transport and had to wear masks if we did, but there were no vaccine checks as far as I can remember. Again, definitely a bother and a curb of our "freedom". 

@Sisyphuswhole point in this thread has been to argue that the "pandemic" was just a ruse for politicians to impose grave restrictions as part of some nefarious purpose, and these restrictions would not be lifted afterwards, and that they were imposed with threats and intimidation by a fascist-like state against the people. What I objected to in his last post was a continuation of that bleak message. Not the fact that yes, restrictions were imposed. I am also not saying that what he tells isn't descriptive of the situation where he lives (as far as I remember he lives in Serbia or something like that), but it is far from how it was done here in Norway.

[Whiskey Rose]

I disagree with the term ‘anti-vaxxer’ being thrown around so indiscriminately. Just because someone was hesitant about ‘this’ vacccine, doesn’t mean they are against vaccines in general. there were plenty of doctors and scientists who also were hesitant, and I’m quite sure they are not ‘anti-vax’ and I’m quite sure they know more than any of us on here. 
it seems to be used to try and shut down meaningful discourse or undermine anything of value the other party might say or think. 
As a matter of fact by generalizing all those who were hesitant as ‘those terrible anti vaxxers’ you are doing the same thing you are accusing @Oldest Goatof doing..that all woke-ism is an extreme movement gone awry with no inherent value. ( I’m not saying goat is actually doing that).  But you accuse the ‘far right’ of an ‘hey it’s a woke guy, don’t listen to him, get ‘im!’ Mentality..and you and many others are doing the same thing here with ‘hey it’s a guy who didn’t want the jab, it’s an anti-vaxxer, don’t listen to him, get ‘em ’ mentality. 

Two problematic sides of the same coin. 
Maybe the world would be a better place if we weren’t always so accusatory and actually listened to others. 

[SoulMonster]

40 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I disagree with the term ‘anti-vaxxer’ being thrown around so indiscriminately. @Oldest Goat

Oh, I consider everybody who refuses one single vaccine to be an anti-vaxxer. And I think they need to hear that if they have lulled them into believing their reasons for rejecting science is somehow more noble or rational than people who reject other vaccines. 

[SoulMonster]

52 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

 @Oldest Goat

Two problematic sides of the same coin. 
Maybe the world would be a better place if we weren’t always so accusatory and actually listened to others. 

Are you accusing me of not listening to anti-vaxxers?  I have spent quite many hours in this very thread discussing the safety of these vaccines with people here, listening to their arguments and explaining why the vaccines are safe,how it is not a conspiracy, explaining side-effect risks, explaining the regulatory pathways and processes, etc. 

PS: Sorry for tagging you, OG, I just can't delete that party when answering on my phone. 

[Oldest Goat]

1 hour ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I disagree with the term ‘anti-vaxxer’ being thrown around so indiscriminately. Just because someone was hesitant about ‘this’ vacccine, doesn’t mean they are against vaccines in general. there were plenty of doctors and scientists who also were hesitant, and I’m quite sure they are not ‘anti-vax’ and I’m quite sure they know more than any of us on here. 
it seems to be used to try and shut down meaningful discourse or undermine anything of value the other party might say or think. 
As a matter of fact by generalizing all those who were hesitant as ‘those terrible anti vaxxers’ you are doing the same thing you are accusing @Oldest Goatof doing..that all woke-ism is an extreme movement gone awry with no inherent value. ( I’m not saying goat is actually doing that).  But you accuse the ‘far right’ of an ‘hey it’s a woke guy, don’t listen to him, get ‘im!’ Mentality..and you and many others are doing the same thing here with ‘hey it’s a guy who didn’t want the jab, it’s an anti-vaxxer, don’t listen to him, get ‘em ’ mentality. 

Two problematic sides of the same coin. 
Maybe the world would be a better place if we weren’t always so accusatory and actually listened to others. 

(You're right, I'm good enough to not do that.)

Did you see how I was treated here and stabbed in the back at the beginning of the pandemic for just daring to hesitate and think out loud?

I actually decided to get the vaccine - the bullshit I experienced here had 0% to do with that decision of course. Still to this day, I'm treated like a fucking conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxer lmfao.

SoulMonster is proud to hate philosophy and doesn't understand Plato's Allegory of the Cave. That says it all really.

[action]

I see, but it's rather clownesque to label covid-vaccine sceptics as "anti vaxxers", when at the same time claiming it's not ok to call wokists, wokists.

in what universe, do these people expect me to take them serious?

so much for the argument, that the term "woke" is thrown around too often.

The ease, with which the left labels everyone an "anti vaxxer" if they have questions, firmly gives me the right to call woke extremists, wokists.

Furthermore, I reckognise that not everyone who supports minority rights, is a wokist.

Whereas, the left labels everyone an anti vaxxers, without exception.

there is not much left off the cake with these people, cos they have taken and eaten it completely

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

(You're right, I'm good enough to not do that.)

Did you see how I was treated here and stabbed in the back at the beginning of the pandemic for just daring to hesitate and think out loud?

I actually decided to get the vaccine - the bullshit I experienced here had 0% to do with that decision of course. Still to this day, I'm treated like a fucking conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxer lmfao.

SoulMonster is proud to hate philosophy and doesn't understand Plato's Allegory of the Cave. That says it all really.

If some of my friends told me they were buying into the propaganda from the anti-vaxxers and considered not getting vaccinated, I would tell them to not be stupid, too. "Stabbed in the back"?  Get over yourself and your wounded ego. You are always so dramatic.

And the reason why I have referred to you as having a conspiracy minded-mind is not exclusively with you considering to not get vaccinated but because of all the other things you have believed in, like those emails with hidden pedophilia messages and UFOs and much more I can't remember right now. 

[Sweersa]

14 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Really! Geez, was it just Canada then?! 
Even  where I am now in the US, in a supposedly ‘red’ state, our employer sent out a letter that said we were required to get vaxxed in order to stay employed and made us photocopy our vax cards that went into our file. Now, eventually the threat of unemployment went away and they never did fire anyone who didn’t get it, but they sure were leaning that way in the beginning. 
 

My buddy's son was in the US Army National Guard, and was honorably discharged after refusing to get the jab. A number of employers in the US have or had COVID vaccine requirements. (As did many colleges and universities) Some allow for exemptions, such as a religious exemption. 

Thankfully, the place I work at didn't enact any such requirement. I told my boss I'd resign when he brought it up over lunch. 

[Oldest Goat]

35 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If some of my friends told me they were buying into the propaganda from the anti-vaxxers and considered not getting vaccinated, I would tell them to not be stupid, too. "Stabbed in the back"?  Get over yourself and your wounded ego. You are always so dramatic.

And the reason why I have referred to you as having a conspiracy minded-mind is not exclusively with you considering to not get vaccinated but because of all the other things you have believed in, like those emails with hidden pedophilia messages and UFOs and much more I can't remember right now. 

You're very clearly not my friend lol. I find it fucking astounding that you think you're a friend to me.

1. I've never emailed you. I don't even know your email. I messaged you on here about that very serious documentary 'Conspiracy of Silence'. You asked me to find the link to it, so I did. You haven't watched it and yet you're very opinionated "friend".

2. I've stated multiple times that I don't believe in UFOs, that I think it's probable aliens exist somewhere in the universe but that UFOs here are probably bullshit and/or secret human technology. I've pointed this out the other times you've tried to throw this in my face. Anybody can go into the UFO thread to confirm what I'm saying.

Edit: Are you referring to John Podesta's emails(which are confirmed to be his)? Yeah, I stand by saying he's likely a pedophile. Bare minimum he's a total creep. I read some of his emails so I know this. You haven't read them and you know fuck-all.

Edited March 7 by Oldest Goat

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

You're very clearly not my friend lol. I find it fucking astounding that you think you're a friend to me.

1. I've never emailed you. I don't even know your email. I messaged you on here about that very serious documentary 'Conspiracy of Silence'. You asked me to find the link to it, so I did. You haven't watched it and yet you're very opinionated "friend".

2. I've stated multiple times that I don't believe in UFOs, that I think it's probable aliens exist sonewhere in the universe but that UFOs here are probably bullshit and/or secret human technology. I've pointed this out the other times you've tried to throw this in my face. Anybody can go into the UFO thread to confirm what I'm saying.

I didn't say you are my friend  And I also never said you have emailed me. That being said, I think you are great. A little on the angry side, a little bit gullible, but really great.

Okay, "secret human technology" then 

 

[Oldest Goat]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't say you are my friend  And I also never said you have emailed me. That being said, I think you are great. A little on the angry side, a little bit gullible, but really great.

Okay, "secret human technology" then 

 

I am great.

Now, please cease all communication to and about me.

[Whiskey Rose]

2 hours ago, Sweersa said:

My buddy's son was in the US Army National Guard, and was honorably discharged after refusing to get the jab. A number of employers in the US have or had COVID vaccine requirements. (As did many colleges and universities) Some allow for exemptions, such as a religious exemption. 

Thankfully, the place I work at didn't enact any such requirement. I told my boss I'd resign when he brought it up over lunch. 

I wonder if your friends son can be reinstated now that they are starting to loosen the mandates? I know they are in some places and some professions like nursing. 
Or maybe he wouldn’t want to go back now anyway. 

[Sweersa]

2 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I wonder if your friends son can be reinstated now that they are starting to loosen the mandates? I know they are in some places and some professions like nursing. 
Or maybe he wouldn’t want to go back now anyway. 

That is a good question. He may not want to return on principal. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

The news reported that today was 3 years since Dallas had the first covid case.  Only 51% of Dallas citizens are fully vaccinated against covid.  The head doctor recommended to still wear a mas when in a crowd and keep your vaccines up to date. 

I still wear a mask because allergies are bad in Texas and it's helped keep me healthy. Besides who knows what most germs people are carrying. lol

Bottom line is covid is here to stay like the flu and other diseases that people continue to get even though we know how to avoid getting them.  do what ever you want to do and hope you all stay healthy.

[grouse]

1 hour ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

The news reported that today was 3 years since Dallas had the first covid case.  Only 51% of Dallas citizens are fully vaccinated against covid.  The head doctor recommended to still wear a mas when in a crowd and keep your vaccines up to date. 

I still wear a mask because allergies are bad in Texas and it's helped keep me healthy. Besides who knows what most germs people are carrying. lol

Bottom line is covid is here to stay like the flu and other diseases that people continue to get even though we know how to avoid getting them.  do what ever you want to do and hope you all stay healthy.

You keep doing you, it is good to see that you have managed to arrive at some form of closure. I have taken jabs at you in the past for being so panicky a lot of the time so for me it's fair to say well done you!

[action]

11 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

  do what ever you want to do and hope you all stay healthy.

thanks. I have done what I wanted to do, from the beginning, and I have stayed healthy. Nobody could tell me what to do, not then, not now.

While most of us are slowly getting back to their senses, and we conclude that everybody should decide for themselves what to do, it is good to remember that attitude for possible future crisises.

It is my profound opinion, that intuition will always lead to better conclusions than what people refer to as "science". We all seem to realise, deep down, that the science was wrong, and our intuitions (which most of us suppressed in favour of the narrative) were always right.

We should take this knowledge with us, going forward. He who never changes his mind, never learns something new.