Covid-19 Thread

[TheSeeker]

This is why it's a problem -

 

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, action said:

I can only note that countries, companies, schools etc are taking severe measures, that do not match with a disease where the probability of death is ridiculously small.

the economy, is taking sever hits. Millions of money is lost.

why would all of that happen, if there is nothing to worry about?

Governments take severe precautions because it is their job to prevent this disease from spreading, especially until we have a vaccine.

The economy is taking a hit because people don't won't to fly because they are scared, and because China has imposed such strict restrictions it is slowing their economy.

As far as your health is concerned, there is nothing to worry about (with the assumption that you are not old and weak).

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Governments take severe precautions because it is their job to prevent this disease from spreading, especially until we have a vaccine.

The economy is taking a hit because people don't won't to fly because they are scared, and because China has imposed such strict restrictions it is slowing their economy.

As far as your health is concerned, there is nothing to worry about (with the assumption that you are not old and weak).

I’m looking on the bright side. I could conceivably get a couple of weeks off work for this and if the stock market keeps tanking Trump has a harder time winning re-election in November.  

[DieselDaisy]

9 hours ago, action said:

I'm more abstract about this. while I did feel antisocial myself, when I wore that mask, ultimately this was a ridiculous thought since I wasn't targeting people; I was targetig a virus. So a more accurate description would be "I don't want to be breathing in your diseased infections, you corona virus". Humans, in this case, merely make up the "host". A virus is not an idea, it is an actual biological reality which I'm directly shielding myself of. There just happens to be a human between me and the corona virus.

It's like a lawyer, yelling at the policeman in court, what a serious scumbag he was for murdering his wife. Except, the lawyer isnt really talking to the policeman, but to the killer standing next to him, handcuffed to the policeman.

I don't identifiy people with this virus. So in my mind I'm not antisocial. In reality, I'm not antisocial. I'm not antisocial, how ever you spin this. I merely "appear" to be

My comment was more a remark about general usage of the mask in western countries, as opposed to usage now as a consequence of the corona virus. As I'm sure you are aware, the wearing of surgical masks in public has been a prevalent thing for Asians for a long time; cultural? fashion purposes? Who knows?

3 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I’m looking on the bright side. I could conceivably get a couple of weeks off work for this and if the stock market keeps tanking Trump has a harder time winning re-election in November.  

Which would be bad news for the United Kingdom, Trump not winning.

[action]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

My comment was more a remark about general usage of the mask in western countries, as opposed to usage now as a consequence of the corona virus. As I'm sure you are aware, the wearing of surgical masks in public has been a prevalent thing for Asians for a long time; cultural? fashion purposes? Who knows?

 

"culture" has the characteristic of being able to change overnight.

Today, it's ridiculous and weird to wear such a mask in a general store. Tomorrow, you could be viewed as irresponsible for not wearing a mask.

There was a qualitative step going on in my mind, when I decided "I'm going to put on this mask, buy a packet of butter, pay it at the counter wearing that stupid mask, and then telling the cashier she can keep the receipt".

I felt like I "stepped" into a new reality, a reality where I'm wearing such a mask to protect myself from the real threat of a dangerous virus. I may be one of the first people to do so, and I don't feel proud of this nor do I expect any understanding from anyone. But I have a feeling, in two weeks, I won't be alone.

[Lio]

6 minutes ago, action said:

"culture" has the characteristic of being able to change overnight.

Today, it's ridiculous and weird to wear such a mask in a general store. Tomorrow, you could be viewed as irresponsible for not wearing a mask.

There was a qualitative step going on in my mind, when I decided "I'm going to put on this mask, buy a packet of butter, pay it at the counter wearing that stupid mask, and then telling the cashier she can keep the receipt".

I felt like I "stepped" into a new reality, a reality where I'm wearing such a mask to protect myself from the real threat of a dangerous virus. I may be one of the first people to do so, and I don't feel proud of this nor do I expect any understanding from anyone. But I have a feeling, in two weeks, I won't be alone.

The bolded part made me LOL.

I've a serious question. What happens when your kid goes back to school next week? More than probably other kids will have gone on a ski trip to northern Italy. How will you deal with that.

[action]

7 minutes ago, Lio said:

I've a serious question. What happens when your kid goes back to school next week? More than probably other kids will have gone on a ski trip to northern Italy. How will you deal with that.

posing the question, is answering it. you know my track record in this thread, you know what I'm gonna do.

As a parent, my duty to protect my child in the best possible way, comes into conflict with the social pressure to let your child attend school. Every responsible parent has to ask themselves the question "at what point, does my duty to protect my child, prevail over the social norm of letting your child attend school".

I may also add, before you speak scandal of the thought of not letting your child attend school, that thousands and thousands of children are marching for the climate while skipping school (and are applauded for it), for causes that are far less urgent and imminent than the corona virus. If I am irresponsible for keeping my child at home, then I wonder what that makes of all those parents that make their kids skip school for the climate.

Edited February 28, 2020 by action

[Lio]

4 minutes ago, action said:

posing the question, is answering it. you know my track record in this thread, you know what I'm gonna do.

As a parent, my duty to protect my child in the best possible way, comes into conflict with the social pressure to let your child attend school. Every responsible parent has to ask themselves the question "at what point, does my duty to protect my child, prevail over the social norm of letting your child attend school".

I may also add, before you speak scandal of the thought of not letting your child attend school, that thousands and thousands of children are marching for the climate while skipping school (and are applauded for it), for causes that are far less urgent and imminent than the corona virus. If I am irresponsible for keeping my child at home, then I wonder what that makes of all those parents that make their kids skip school for the climate.

I wasn't going to speak scandal. It was a genuine question.

[SoulMonster]

25 minutes ago, action said:

posing the question, is answering it. you know my track record in this thread, you know what I'm gonna do.

As a parent, my duty to protect my child in the best possible way, comes into conflict with the social pressure to let your child attend school. Every responsible parent has to ask themselves the question "at what point, does my duty to protect my child, prevail over the social norm of letting your child attend school".

I may also add, before you speak scandal of the thought of not letting your child attend school, that thousands and thousands of children are marching for the climate while skipping school (and are applauded for it), for causes that are far less urgent and imminent than the corona virus. If I am irresponsible for keeping my child at home, then I wonder what that makes of all those parents that make their kids skip school for the climate.

So you are keeping your child home during flu season too, then? 

[Dazey]

57 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Which would be bad news for the United Kingdom, Trump not winning.

It really wouldn’t. 

[action]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So you are keeping your child home during flu season too, then? 

I do what I have to do. You see, the fact of the matter is this: it's my child, not yours. you have children too: you too, can do as you please. but we always have to think of the following: In every action we make, lay the consequences. A dead person can not be revived.

it is true, my opinion is in direct violation with pretty much every scientific finding on this. And it is true, you are an expert on virology. Seeing how it is pointless arguing with a virologist, when you are not one yourself, I'm not going to argue. However, I absolutely reserve the right to make my own decisions, without the need to explain them.

So if I'm not basing my decision on scientific findings, what do I base them on, I hear you asking. Well, I'm basing it on my, what they call in belgium: "healthy peasant's whisdom". 

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, action said:

I do what I have to do. You see, the fact of the matter is this: it's my child, not yours. you have children too: you too, can do as you please. but we always have to think of the following: In every action we make, lay the consequences. A dead person can not be revived.

it is true, my opinion is in direct violation with pretty much every scientific finding on this. And it is true, you are an expert on virology. Seeing how it is pointless arguing with a virologist, when you are not one yourself, I'm not going to argue. However, I absolutely reserve the right to make my own decisions, without the need to explain them.

So if I'm not basing my decision on scientific findings, what do I base them on, I hear you asking. Well, I'm basing it on my, what they call in belgium: "healthy peasant's whisdom". 

Personally I wouldn’t trust any peasant who can’t spell wisdom. Belgian or otherwise.  

Edited February 28, 2020 by Dazey

[action]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Personally I wouldn’t trust any peasant who can’t spell wisdom. Belgian or otherwise.  

well, so far belgium isn't infected yet. that's more than what can be said about the UK 

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, action said:

I do what I have to do. You see, the fact of the matter is this: it's my child, not yours. 

So you ARE keeping your child home from school now because of seasonal flu?

[action]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

So you ARE keeping your child home from school now because of seasonal flu?

I said, I don't have to explain myself. the topic goes about the corona virus, not about seasonal flu. I don't want to derail the thread.

I will say this though: it's been years since anyone of my family had the flu, and no, the thought of being infected never crossed my mind. If you dig a little in this forum, you'll even find a thread made by me, where I oracled "I love having the flu, so I dont have to go to work". Obviously, I take the corona virus far more serious than seasonal flu. And so do many countries, companies, schools, etc.

[SoulMonster]

The reason why we take Covid-19 more seriously is manyfold. Some of it is a bit irrational, like us being scared of something new and the media making a huge fuzz about it. Some is more rational, like concern over the fact that we still don't know as much about Covid-19 as influenza virus and we could be wrong, the fact that the fatality rate seems to be a lot higher than for normal flu, the hope that through containment and quarantine we might eradicate this virus before it spreads so much it becomes a fixed new disease for infinity.

[action]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

The reason why we take Covid-19 more seriously is manyfold. Some of it is a bit irrational, like us being scared of something new and the media making a huge fuzz about it. Some is more rational, like concern over the fact that we still don't know as much about Covid-19 as influenza virus and we could be wrong, the fact that the fatality rate seems to be a lot higher than for normal flu, the hope that through containment and quarantine we might eradicate this virus before it spreads so much it becomes a fixed new disease for infinity.

the reason is also, because we sometimes have children to protect.

are you familiar with the "precautionary principle" in international environmental law? (see, for reference: FREESTONE, D. and HEY, E. (Eds), The precautionary principle and International Law, The Hague, Kluwer Law International, 1996, 274p)? It says that measures should be taken, whenever there are clear indications that a certain activity holds danger for the environment, even in the absence of clear evidence between the activity and the environmental damage. This means, that clear indications are sufficient, and we don't have to wait for a scientific consensus, to act.

I apply this principle when it comes to protecting my son, because I think my son is of far more value than anything else in this world.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, action said:

the reason is also, because we sometimes have children to protect.

We ALWAYS have children to protect Doesn't explain why we behave differently towards this new disease than seasonal flu.

[action]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

We ALWAYS have children to protect Doesn't explain why we behave differently towards this new disease than seasonal flu.

you should thank me though. I just gave you, on a plate, an argument to use in the greta thunberg thread. I fully expect you to use my own argument against me in that thread.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, action said:

you should thank me though. I just gave you, on a plate, an argument to use in the greta thunberg thread. I fully expect you to use my own argument against me in that thread.

I don't need arguments to argue for why we should protect the environment. If that in itself isn't self-evident to you, then additional arguments will make no difference.

[action]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't need arguments to argue for why we should protect the environment. If that in itself isn't self-evident to you, then additional arguments will make no difference.

is that your way of thanking people? 

but, likewise good sir. I don't need arguments either, about wether to leave my kid at home or not.

[Dazey]

So this happened.  

 

Quote

Did Trump Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?

As a new coronavirus spread in 2020, so did concerns about the United States' preparedness for a potential pandemic.

BETHANIA PALMA

PUBLISHED 26 FEBRUARY 2020

Amid warnings from public health officials that a 2020 outbreak of a new coronavirus could soon become a pandemic involving the U.S., alarmed readers asked Snopes to verify a rumor that U.S. President Donald Trump had “fired the entire pandemic response team two years ago and then didn’t replace them.”

The claim came from a series of tweets posted by Judd Legum, who runs Popular Information, a newsletter he describes as being about “politics and power.” Legum’s commentary was representative of sharp criticism from Democratic legislators (and some Republicans) that the Trump administration had ill-prepared the country for a pandemic even as one was looming on the horizon.

Legum outlined a series of cost-cutting decisions made by the Trump administration in preceding years that had gutted the nation’s infectious disease defense infrastructure. The “pandemic response team” firing claim referred to news accounts from Spring 2018 reporting that White House officials tasked with directing a national response to a pandemic had been ousted.

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.

Legum stated in a follow-up tweet that “Trump also cut funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel its efforts to help countries prevent infectious-disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries in 2018. Among the countries abandoned? China.” That information was confirmed by 2018 news reports stating that funding for the CDC’s global disease outbreak prevention efforts had been cut by 80%, including funding for the agency’s efforts in China.

On Feb. 24, 2020, the Trump administration requested $2.5 billion to address the coronavirus outbreak, an outlay critics asserted might not have been necessary if the previous program cuts had not taken place. Fortune reported of the issue that:

The cuts could be especially problematic as COVID-19 continues to spread. Health officials are now warning the U.S. is unlikely to be spared, even though cases are minimal here so far.

“It’s not so much of a question of if this will happen in this country any more but a question of when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during a press call [on Feb. 25].

The coronavirus was first detected in Wuhan, China, in the winter of 2019, and cases spread around the globe. The U.S. had 57 confirmed cases as of this writing, while globally, roughly 80,000 patients had been sickened with the virus and 3,000 had died. As of yet, no vaccine or pharmaceutical treatment for the new coronavirus. Data from China suggests the coronavirus has a higher fatality rate than the seasonal flu, although outcomes depend on factors such as the age and underlying health of the patient.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

 

Also this.

 

Quote

A government whistleblower alleges US health workers treated coronavirus evacuees without proper protective gear or training

Sonam Sheth

A government whistleblower alleged that the Department of Health and Human Services sent workers to help evacuees from Wuhan, China — the epicenter of the coronavirus — without giving them proper protective gear or training.

According to The Washington Post and The New York Times, the whistleblower is a senior HHS official based in Washington, DC.

The person said workers were sent to two bases in California to assist in processing American evacuees from China without being trained in safety protocol and without adequate protection.

The first case of a US patient becoming infected with coronavirus through "community spread" took place near one of those bases earlier this week.

The whistleblower alleged that they were unfairly reassigned and threatened with termination after flagging their concerns to senior HHS officials, including those who work for HHS Secretary Alex Azar.

A whistleblower from the Department of Health and Human Services has alleged that the US sent more than a dozen government workers to assist Americans who were evacuated from Wuhan, China, without giving them proper training or protective gear, The Washington Post and The New York Times reported on Thursday.

The whistleblower is a senior HHS official based in Washington, DC, and oversees employees at the Administration for Children and Families unit within the federal agency, according to The Post and The Times.

Wuhan is the epicenter of the global coronavirus outbreak, which has infected 82,000 people — most of them in mainland China — and killed 2,800.

The World Health Organization said on Thursday that the outbreak could become a pandemic, and US public-health officials announced this week they expected it to spread throughout the country.

Lawyers for the whistleblower told The Post that the workers sent to help American evacuees did not show symptoms of the infection and have not been tested for the virus.

The Times, which obtained a portion of the complaint that was submitted to the Office of the Special Counsel, reported that the team sent to assist the evacuees was "improperly deployed" to two military bases in California to aid in processing the Americans, who were evacuated from China and elsewhere.

According to The Times, the workers went to Travis Air Force Base and March Air Reserve Base and were ordered to go into quarantined areas without proper training in how to handle infectious diseases and inadequate protective gear. The whistleblower said the officials were not trained in how to follow safety protocols until five days later, according to The Times.

The Times said the first case of a US patient becoming infected with coronavirus through "community spread" took place near Travis Air Force Base earlier this week. 

Moreover, the whistleblower alleged that they were unfairly reassigned after flagging their concerns to senior HHS officials, including those who work for HHS Secretary Alex Azar. On February 19, the person was told they had 15 days to accept their new job or they would be terminated, The Post reported.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced on Wednesday that the public needed to brace itself as the COVID-19 virus, known as the novel coronavirus, sweeps the globe and is increasingly likely to spread within the US — a possibility that would most likely force changes to daily life for many Americans.

"It's not so much of a question of if this will happen in this country anymore but a question of when this will happen," Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC, said during a press call on Tuesday. "We are asking the American public to prepare for the expectation that this might be bad."

Messonnier also said the agency was "preparing as if we are going to see community spread in the near term," adding that the outbreak could soon lead to a "disruption to everyday life."

But President Donald Trump has so far brushed off concerns of a pandemic and said, despite repeated warnings from medical experts and health professionals, that the disease is under control.

If the coronavirus breaks out in the US and forces the quarantining of American towns and cities, Trump's refusal to acknowledge its seriousness, on top of years of cuts to public health, could prove a massive political liability. Health experts told Insider public trust and cooperation by local, state, and federal officials were essential to treating those infected with the virus and limiting its spread.

In China, the unprecedented spread of the coronavirus is a massive test of President Xi Jinping's authoritarian system and the surveillance state he's built up over the years. It's also straining the global economy and has affected the profits for multinational giants like Apple as schools, factories, and businesses across China remain shuttered and millions of people are quarantined and unable to work.

https://www.businessinsider.com/whistleblower-us-workers-treated-coronavirus-without-gear-training-2020-2?r=US&IR=T

MAGA!  

Edited February 28, 2020 by Dazey

[soon]

Green Day, BTS and Boston Symphony Orchestra have canceled or postponed Asian tours due to both heath and logistical concerns relating to the virus. Hope Guns Euro trek wont get nixed.  

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/green-day-postpone-asia-tour-coronavirus-959490/

 

[soon]

14 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So this happened.  

Fuck. Its easy for you to laugh - I live less than 100km from New York! We might have to go in guns blazing and impose socialized medicine 

[Dazey]

Just now, soon said:

Fuck. Its easy for you to laugh - I live less than 100km from New York! We might have to go in guns blazing and impose socialized medicine 

I'm genuinely hoping for the stock market to crash over this and fuckface to be out on his arse in November as a result.