Axl Rose Rape allegation - Supposedly victim speaks out on youtube

[ShadowOfTheWave]

15 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

False rape accusations do occur, but they are rare, and it would be highly unusual for a woman of her age and life situation to come out with a made-up story such as this, especially in absence of specific circumstances such as psychosis or a history of pathological lying. It's clear that people who know her believe her. She's not known as a person who would lie about something like this. She's not some random fan girl desperate to gain her idol's attention by any means possible. She's an actual person from the band's past, and she's married to another man, who also supports her in this. If she was unduly looking for attention I don't think she would have kept silent for as long as she did.

The fact that some fans still cling on to the idea that Gina, Sheila, Erin, Stephanie, and their witnesses, were also all lying frankly reeks of desperation. I guess all I can say to that is that just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean it's likely. It would be nice if none of it was true, but I for one can't allow myself to believe that.

The funny thing is that Axl himself came very close to admitting that he had abused women in some of his old interviews. For a while it seemed like he was willing to accept some responsibility for what he had done. That's why I wouldn't rule it out entirely that he might come clean and apologize. It's probably not going to happen, though. I think in later years, after the break-up with Stephanie, the lawsuits, etc, he fell back to misogyny and any frail attempt at self-improvement in that department was aborted.

LMFAO

Edited January 16, 2022 by ShadowOfTheWave

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

Calling women bitches - GNFR!! If you're offended this band isn't for you!

Raping underage girls - Definitely fake, made up. GNR are RnR but they wouldn't do that!

[izzyjim]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:22 AM, megaguns1982 said:

No doubt. Axls an easy target because he has a sketchy past with women trying to take him down.

Whoa wait, so he's the victim here?? 

Edited January 17, 2022 by izzyjim
Typo

[RussTCB]

So......what is the end game here? I've seen people say the person isn't looking for money, so I'm genuinely curious what the end goal is. 

[Pele]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:48 AM, thunderram said:

Obvious only if you believe one party over the other. But the fact is you'll never know who is and who isn't telling the truth about anything. Multiple people making claims also doesn't prove anything. Becoming a secondary, tertiary, etc. accuser makes it easier to create a lie that will be believed. Celebrities with money and fame are prime targets for this sort of thing.

None of the above means he or any other celeb didn't do what they were accused of. I fully acknowledge that point.

However to say it's "obvious" his behavior towards women was highly questionable is just not correct or factual at all. It remains nothing but hearsay. Hearsay to which you're choosing to subscribe .

I think it's very obvious his behavior towards women was questionable.

I know some of his fans won't want to see it that way, but there were very strong, specific cases brought against him by his ex partners that he paid off instead of defending.  

If in doubt, just read the Madison rant out-loud to your girlfriend/wife/sister/daughter/mom and see what they think. 

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

So......what is the end game here? I've seen people say the person isn't looking for money, so I'm genuinely curious what the end goal is. 

If she has been genuinely affected by this, I'd imagine her motive would be to open the doors for other women to come forward and share their experiences in the hope of a conviction.

If not, then money and attention.

[Underhardy]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

So......what is the end game here? I've seen people say the person isn't looking for money, so I'm genuinely curious what the end goal is. 

Very simple man. Just truth. Girl was 15 Axl was 23. Raped her and ridiculed her saying he was gonna shit on her face. He changed her mental life permanently and stripped her of any innocence left in her young life. Months later, Guns get signed and she has to live hearing them on the radio every single day as she is still over coming daily random struggles that come with the trauma. The world should know the truth about someone put on such a pedestal. The chick is actually as genuine as they come and really wants nothing but some mental power back that robbed her of so much. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Underhardy

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, Underhardy said:

Very simple man. Just truth. Girl was 16 Axl was 23. Raped her and ridiculed her saying he was gonna shit on her face. He changed her mental life permanently and stripped her of any innocence left in her young life. Months later, Guns get signed and she has to live hearing them on the radio every single day as she is still over coming daily random struggles that come with the trauma. The world should know the truth about someone put on such a pedestal. The chick is actually as genuine as they come and really wants nothing but some mental power back that robbed her of so much. 

Fair enough. Thanks for the answer and taking it the way it was meant. I was truly just curious. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by RussTCB

[Towelie]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:59 PM, Underhardy said:

Very simple man. Just truth. Girl was 15 Axl was 23. Raped her and ridiculed her saying he was gonna shit on her face. He changed her mental life permanently and stripped her of any innocence left in her young life. Months later, Guns get signed and she has to live hearing them on the radio every single day as she is still over coming daily random struggles that come with the trauma. The world should know the truth about someone put on such a pedestal. The chick is actually as genuine as they come and really wants nothing but some mental power back that robbed her of so much. 

You talk as if you know this woman personally?

A bit unfair to talk about these events as facts until her story has been told through the proper channels (ie, a court of law) and cross examined by a defense. Or do we just do away with hundreds of years of due process now we have social media?

Edited January 20, 2022 by Towelie

[alfierose]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

"I can't allow myself to believe this isn't true." - Someone with zero objectivity to put it politely.

You just said she's a 'lying lunatic' that's not objective either. 

We don't know if it's true. Might be, might not be. Could be a partial truth with exaggeration or the truth could be worse than we all think.

Without a formal investigation the only objective answer is 'don't know'. Outside of that everything else is speculation and bias as to what we each think is more likely.

[alfierose]

Tbh I can't remember what the story was now. I do vaguely remember there being some dubious points to it. There probably is a story there somewhere but perhaps not the one it's become over many decades.  

[Pele]

9 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's my subjective reaction to an objective conclusion.

When 'Little Michelle' came on here I listened and considered it very seriously but it doesn't take long at all to see all the holes in her story and how full of shit she is. And IF she turned out to be telling the truth then frankly her appearing to be so full of shit is on her, not me.

And I'm nobody's sycophant. I wouldn't be surprised if Axl turned out to have done scummy things, in fact that's probably likely. I'm not saying he's an innocent lamb who doesn't even know someone who would use the C word. I'm saying Little Michelle is a little liar.

What a strange post.

Rose probably did do it, but she's a bit weird so fuck her?

[DurhamGirl]

I have no idea if this is true or not so I am not going to make any judgements.   

[Scream of the Butterfly]

12 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

"I can't allow myself to believe this isn't true." - Someone with zero objectivity to put it politely.

Not really a post or a person I should dignify with an answer, but what the hell.

You have a strange concept of objectivity if you think the fact that I don't allow myself to believe that something isn't true just because I'd like it to not be true means I have zero objectivity.

[kanecrescente]

So this is what a period of no band news/activity has brought on the forum?🤦🏻‍♂️😂

[CubanSkies Dummy]

I'm full supporter of Rose.

That's all I can say about this thread.

[VampireSoul]

I have no opinion on this as a whole but I read through her Twitter and she says her and Axl were a couple and she knew all the guys in GN'R etc. She doesn't have one picture with any of them, ever? That's weird to me. I still have pics of all my exes and their friends and I've been married for 18 years 😅 Is she claiming to be Michelle from My Michelle? Cause we all know that's bs. 

She also said Duff ignored her at a show recently and that Axl sang her song recently in her presence. I dunno.. It's weird. And she keeps asking them all to 'make it right'.. How? What would make such a thing right? 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

33 minutes ago, CubanSkies Dummy said:

I'm full supporter of Rose.

That's all I can say about this thread.

So glad you chipped in. 

[Underhardy]

14 hours ago, VampireSoul said:

I have no opinion on this as a whole but I read through her Twitter and she says her and Axl were a couple and she knew all the guys in GN'R etc. She doesn't have one picture with any of them, ever? That's weird to me. I still have pics of all my exes and their friends and I've been married for 18 years 😅 Is she claiming to be Michelle from My Michelle? Cause we all know that's bs. 

She also said Duff ignored her at a show recently and that Axl sang her song recently in her presence. I dunno.. It's weird. And she keeps asking them all to 'make it right'.. How? What would make such a thing right? 

No, she denies that question about My Michelle probably on a daily basis. And her story is that in the 90s when she was seeing a therapist heavy about the situation, the therapist urged her to package together all of her photos and send them to Axl as a form of letting go or some shit. I mean yeah the guys are all gonna ignore her if this story is true. We’ll never know. 
 

I never read her forum posts. But I did do a minor deep dive into her video journal style videos. My personal hunch, giving any and all things we’ve heard over the decades regarding Axl, and just the mostly scummy vibes of the strip in the 80s, and the fact that axl was raped himself as a toddler, not sure what he “knew” about those episodes in the mid 80s.. but yeah I lean like 60/40 in believing she’s telling more truth than lies. 

[Blackstar]

Well, none of us were there. Also, a story is not necessarily entirely true or entirely false.

The accounts from band members and people around the band (either in interviews from back in the day or later in their books, etc.) are confusing, but the common denominator is that at one point in early 1986 both Axl and Slash were accused of rape or statutory rape - it's not clear if it was the same case or two separate cases that occurred at the same time - and the police got involved, which caused the band to leave the rehearsal space on Sunset & Gardner and move into Vicky Hamilton's apartment. According to some accounts, the incident - or one of the incidents - involved a girl being thrown out naked by Axl (which, of course, is bad enough, if true). It also seems that there were teenage girls around the band, something that was not at all uncommon at that time. It's unknown how far the rape/statutory rape case(s) went legally, if it was just a police investigation or if there was prosecution; there are some accounts mentioning it went to court, but it doesn't seem there was a trial - maybe it was just a hearing where the charges were dropped. In either case, they were acquitted. All this can be read in detail here: https://www.a-4-d.com/t4942-06-january-december-1986-getting-signed#18945

Then "Little Michelle" came out with her side of the story - of course claiming it to be the "truth" and more horrible than what we'd known. I wasn't predisposed towards either not believing her or the other way around - there were things in Axl's past that are not in his favour, but, on the other hand, that doesn't mean that every allegation made against him should be true. I followed what she posted on social media from the beginning, read what she said on here, and then listened to an interview she did with a twitter profile who described himself as a "former GN'R fan" and a Trump supporter (that profile, along everything associated with it including the interview, was deleted after the Capitol events). From what she said, combined with some other clues, it seems that she really is the person in the incident (or one of the incidents) that led to a rape charge in 1986, so I don't doubt that part of the story. And, if the part about her getting thrown out naked is true, she is a victim. However, there are many other parts in her story that just don't add up and even sound physically unlikely or impossible to have happened the way she has described it, for example the miscarriage scene. I have also watched/listened to all the videos and podcasts she has put out recently, and my impression hasn't changed, even more so as there is now a prominent "spiritual" component in her tale that involves witchcraft, witch goddesses and time travel. And then there is her ongoing claim that Duff wrote his 2019 song "Last September" about her and that he implied it in interviews, even though Duff never said anything like that.

Her reasons to come out with the story now and her aims for doing so are no less confusing to me.

Get her story out? She has done that already - that's why there was a long thread on here 2+ years ago and there is another one now.  Get it out in a bigger way, in a magazine or a documentary? She has tried and it hasn't happened. Why? Probably because media outlets can't print/air such a serious allegation that hasn't taken the legal route without some kind of evidence to back it up and risk getting sued. And it seems that there isn't any supporting evidence.

An apology? She said they did apologize to her back in the day - according to her account, she was very special to them and they practically burst into tears (Axl, too) every time they saw her in the couple of years after the fact (as she was going and working in the same places they went). A public admission and apology? Could this ever happen, supposing her story is true? We're not talking about something vague here, like "Yeah, I wasn't too kind with women, I apologize"; we're talking about rape. Who would publicly admit committing rape, even without being in danger of being prosecuted, and who would admit aiding a rapist? I don't think there is a precedent of anyone having done that. So, it's either extremely naive of her to expect/hope for something like that (again, supposing for a minute that her story is true), or her saying that that's what she wants is kind of a smokescreen for something else.

Money? When she was asked in the comments on youtube if the band offered her any financial help after they became famous, she replied that they didn't and she would have been very grateful if they had. On the other hand, she says that she doesn't want money now - or at least not "hush money".

What could it be, then? She said that what was written in books (mainly in Slash's autobiography and in Stephen Davis' unauthorized biography) about her story was what made her want to get it out. Both these books, however, were released a long time ago (2007/2008). In one of her recent videos she said that she read the books (and got upset) at the time they came out, but it wasn't until the reunion, 9 years later, that she decided  to talk.  Indeed, that's when it started, with her posting on their social media and sometimes liking their posts, including Axl's. She said she was triggered after seeing pictures of them backstage with people from back in the day who they have kept contact with (I suppose she was referring to pictures of Slash and Duff, because I don't think there are such pictures of Axl). She also just happened - a coincidence, as she says - to be in Vegas for work when GN'R played the first reunion shows there. So maybe that's what it all comes down to: the reunion was a celebration, they were rejoined by people from the past, and she wasn't/isn't a part of that, and she wants to be accepted and acknowledged by them as a part of their history and their circle. Her videos are not just about the rape allegation. She seems to enjoy telling stories about the band and the scene, and she likes it when people ask her to. She also seems to be interested in talking about Axl's current situation, Beta, etc.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Blackstar

[Twinaleblood]

Absolutely spot on post @Blackstar. You might have totally nailed it with the final part about getting acknowledged etc

[Blackstar]

19 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

What do you mean one of us was there?

Oh sorry, it was a typo. I meant "none of us" (I have corrected it now).

I'll try to respond to the rest later.

[Blackstar]

11 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Uh huh. Typo. The plot thickens...where were you on the day in question?

Definitely not there and I can't time travel, like she says she can (and has).

[Blackstar]

46 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

What makes you think she has anything to do with the supposed 1986 rape charge? (Which has been public knowledge for decades.)

"From what she said, combined with some other clues, it seems that she really is the person in the incident (or one of the incidents) that led to a rape charge in 1986, so I don't doubt that part of the story. And, if the part about her getting thrown out naked is true, she is a victim." Explain this?

The name "Michelle" as the name of the person involved in the "rape charge" incident had appeared in the unauthorized GnR book by Stephen Davis (his source was probably Vicky Hamilton) and Davis assumed it was Michelle Young. Then the story with the name reappeared in Mick Wall's book, and when that excerpt was posted as an article in various outlets, Michelle Young responded and said it wasn't her but another Michelle that they called "Little Michelle". So I believe it's indeed her. That doesn't mean that all the rest she has said is true  though.

Yes, it's a story known for years and by some accounts it involved a girl getting thrown out naked, but they all said there was no rape, although there may have been sex.

[Blackstar]

5 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Did she go into detail and say how/where/when she time travelled to? Or was she nonchalant about it like "Oh sure, iwasrealimportanttogunsnrosesimatravelleraxlrapedme."

It was spiritual time travelling. She visited her 15-old self. When she was 15 she had felt one of her witch goddesses comforting her, but years later she spiritually travelled back and realized she had been comforted by her older self from the future.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

A public admission and apology? Could this ever happen, supposing her story is true? We're not talking about something vague here, like "Yeah, I wasn't too kind with women, I apologize"; we're talking about rape. Who would publicly admit committing rape, even without being in danger of being prosecuted, and who would admit aiding a rapist? I don't think there is a precedent of anyone having done that. So, it's either extremely naive of her to expect/hope for something like that (again, supposing for a minute that her story is true), or her saying that that's what she wants is kind of a smokescreen for something else.