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Live Era detailed analysis


Waemoth

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17 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Great work here!

Is it really the consensus that Finck did the backing vocals for ISE overdubs? Would be wild if so.

It's been rumored for probably nearly 20 years that Finck was on backing vox as they are near identical to his backing vox on the song at Rio etc. I'm pretty sure Duff claimed it was him (I recall reading this somewhere so take it with a pinch of salt) but certainly doesn't sound like him.

Great info, Waemoth. My two cents on the alleged overdub on Knockin' On Heavens Door is that if it was indeed re-recorded in the studio, it would've been during the Illusion tour as it doesn't have the same tone as how Axl's voice is on the rest of the re-recorded vocals. Kind of like Freddie Mercury doing the overdubs for Live At Wembley in '87 for it's release etc.

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2 minutes ago, Dean said:

My two cents on the alleged overdub on Knockin' On Heavens Door is that if it was indeed re-recorded in the studio, it would've been during the Illusion tour as it doesn't have the same tone as how Axl's voice is on the rest of the re-recorded vocals. Kind of like Freddie Mercury doing the overdubs for Live At Wembley in '87 for it's release etc.

It definitely is overdubbed. Axl made a mistake in that performance and didn't sing those words properly.

It's definitely done well and it doesn't stand out. However, having listened to that specific line repeatedly I lean strongly towards it being a later overdub done at the same time as the other studio overdubs.

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1 hour ago, Waemoth said:

It certainly isn't Izzy or Duff singing on Mr. Brownstone, and the backing vocals from 2002 sound suspiciously similar. 

I think it still may be Izzy. His vocals at Wembley 91 (e.g. 14 Years) were different, "raspier" and rougher than usual.

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6 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think it still may be Izzy. His vocals at Wembley 91 (e.g. 14 Years) were different, "raspier" and rougher than usual.

I can confidently say that those backing vocals aren't from Wembley 1991. I don't understand why this overdub was made, regardless of who sang the replacement vocals and when they were recorded.

I'm honestly not 100% sure as to who sang it, but I find it highly unlikely to be Izzy.

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2 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

What was this about? 

The speech talked about here:

Axl is telling the crowd to calm down and take a step back because people are getting hurt. 

There seems to be no recording of this speech. I speculate that it could be from Rio since the SBD recording of Rio cuts into ISE.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Waemoth said:

I saw that there's already a thread for this, but I don't think this analysis makes sense as page 3 in a discussion. Feel free to move if moderators disagree.

The entirety of Li(v)e Era apart from It's Alright and Coma has been synched up to their original performance(s) and compared using Audacity, with Live Era as the left channel and the original performance(s) as the right channel. 
I have shared these combined tracks, as well as the Audacity files used to create them. There are also screenshots from Audacity which highlight what parts come from which UYI tour performance when this is applicable.
When studio overdubs are mentioned, it refers to overdubs done by Axl in the process of putting together Live Era in the late 1990's.
The timestamps given indicate which portion of the track is referred to. Next to the timestamp is the first phrase or the first few words in said portion. To the lyrics' right is a parenthesis which indicates the origin of the vocals.
The overdub percentage numbers are approximate and only refer to studio overdubs, not vocal overdubs from other shows.

Some of the crowd noise before and after tracks certainly isn't live since there's many occasions of them playing another song in the beginnings and ends of tracks on Live Era. 
Whether it comes from other parts of the same shows, or from other Guns N' Roses concerts, or somewhere else entirely is hard to say.
I do not think there are any instrumental overdubs made in the studio in the late 1990's. Slash claiming that "It's as honest as it gets" is still misleading, but it's possible that this was only said in regard to the instrumental parts.

It's unclear how and when the claims about which concert is the source for what song on sites like Spotify and Wikipedia originated. 
The latter cites: "https://www.slashparadise.com/discography/albums-guns-n-roses-1999-live-era.php." as its source.
These claims are not entirely correct. For Welcome To The Jungle it's very likely wrong as all instruments and vocals seem to line up with a combination of 1992-01-25 Las Vegas and 1992-02-20 Tokyo. 
The first half of Patience seems to come from 1993-04-24 rather than 1993-04-23 which Wikipedia incorrectly suggests.
With this in mind I think the claims made on the sources for It's Alright and Coma should be taken with a grain of salt, though I'd still consider the dates claimed to be the most likely.
If anyone is aware of which show the speech between Mr. Brownstone and It's So Easy comes, please let me know. It's possible that it comes from 1991-01-20 Rio like the first half of It's So Easy.

This is not complete, and should not be taken as absolute truth.

---------------------------------------------------------

Nightrain - Las Vegas 1992-01-25
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 97,7%
   McBob shouting "Vegas" before "You wanted the best..." has been cut.
   0:38-1:15 "Loaded like a freight train" (studio)
   1:16-1:17 "I can tell you honey you can m"(Las Vegas)
   1:18-5:16 "ake my money tonight" (studio)

Mr. Brownstone - London 1991-08-31
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 98,8%
   The backing vocals in the "I used to do a little" parts starting at 1:26 and 2:50 do not match the original backing vocals by Izzy. The replacement backing vocals are believed to be sang by Robin Finck.
   0:41-2:00 "I get up around seven" (studio)
   2:02         "Oh!" (London)
   2:40-3:23 "Now I get up around whenever" (studio)
   3:24         "Oh!" (London)
   3:28-3:58 "Leave me alo-one" (studio)
   4:04         "Oh!" (London)
   4:11-5:42 "Give me a little light" (unidentified 1990's show) (Rio?)

It's So Easy - Paris 1992-06-06 (Rio 1991-01-20)
   This track is a hybrid of two performances.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   All instruments are from Paris.
   0:17-0:29 "I see your sister in a Sunday dress" (Rio) this part of the recording of Rio is missing, but it sounds like the rest of the vocals from Rio.
   0:30-1:32 "Easy, everybody's trying" (Rio)
   1:34-1:35 "Fuck off!" (Paris)
   1:47-1:56 "You get nothing for nothing" (Rio)
   1:57-1:58 "And I'm bored" (Paris)
   2:00-2:34 "It's so easy, easy" (Rio)
   2:35-3:13 "But it goes to show" (Paris)

Welcome To The Jungle - Tokyo 1992-02-20 (Las Vegas 1992-01-25)
   This track is a hybrid of two performances as well as having extensive studio overdubs.
   Overdubbed vocals: 66,6%
   I believe the instruments are from both Las Vegas and Tokyo.
   Added guitar faintly in the first seconds.
   Vocals:
   0:03-0:47 (intro screams) (Las Vegas)
   0:55-1:17 "Welcome to the jungle" (studio)
   1:18-1:21 "Oh! I wanna watch you bleed!" (Tokyo)
   1:22-1:40 "Welcome to the jungle" (studio)
   1:41-2:17 "My, my, my serpentine (Tokyo)
   2:03-2:04 "Welcome to the jungle" (studio)
   2:05-2:11 "It gets worse here every day" (Tokyo)
   2:12-2:14 "You'll take it eventually" (studio)
   2:14-2:19 "You can have anything you want" (Tokyo)
   2:19-2:22 "Welcome to the jungle" (studio)
   2:23-2:49 "Shanaananaana knees, knees, oh!" (Tokyo)
   2:51-2:57 "Yeahayeahayeah no!" (studio)
   3:46-3:51 "You know where you are? You're in the jungle baby!" (Las Vegas)
   3:52-4:26 "You're gonna die!" (studio)
   Instruments:
   0:00-1:41 Las Vegas
   1:41-2:58 Tokyo - There's a shift in sound at 1:41, I think this marks the switch to Tokyo. The dissonant tone at 2:36 is not present in the recording of Las Vegas.
   2:58-5:08 Las Vegas - Weird mixing at 2:58, and the guitars match very well around 3:40. 

Dust N' Bones - Ritz 1991-05-16 (London 1991-08-31)
   This track is a hybrid of two performances.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   All the instruments are from Ritz which is why the timing between the instruments and the vocals from London is incorrect.
   Izzy suddenly becomes louder at 4:18. This is because his vocals around this time, unlike Axl's vocals, are from Ritz rather than London. Presumably there was a small error made when putting together Live Era.
   0:05-1:56 "He lost his mind today" (Ritz)
   2:00-4:13 "Sometimes you women are so easy" (London)
   4:13-4:14 "That's alright" (Ritz)
   4:15-4:17 "Dust N' Bones, that's al" (London)
   4:17-4:18 "lright" (Ritz)
   4:18-4:20 "Dust N' Bones" (London)
   4:20-4:22 "That's alright" (Ritz)
   4:22-4:24 "Dust N' Bones" (London)
   4:24-4:25 "That's alright" (Ritz)
   4:25-4:27 "Dust N' Bones" (London)
   4:40-4:47 "Just Dust N' Bones" (Ritz)
   
My Michelle - London 1991-08-31
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 99,6%
   Wrong note by Izzy (?) at 1:30 is only audible on Live Era, the volume on his guitar is too low in the audience recordings to compare to. Since I doubt they'd do such a poor job on a potential overdub, I think 
   it's fair to assume that this mistake strongly suggests that they were unwiling to do instrumental overdubs.
   0:48-3:36 "Your daddy works in porno" (studio)
   3:39         "Michelle" (London)

You're Crazy - Tokyo 1988-12-10
   This vocals on this track are untouched. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%

Used To Love Her - Tokyo 1988-12-10
   Most of the vocals on this track are original.
   Overdubbed vocals: 23,4%
   0:55-3:07 "I used to love her" (Tokyo)
   3:22-3:55 "I used to love her" (studio)
   3:58         "That's all she wrote" (Tokyo)

Patience - Mexico City 1993-04-24 (acoustic part)*, Las Vegas 1992-01-25 (electric part)
   The vocals on this hybrid track are untouched. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   Being an audience recording of relatively poor quality, it's hard to say for certain that this is the correct show. I find it likely to be the correct show, and it definitely rules out any studio overdubs on this track.
   This song was made by combining the first part of an acoustic 1993 performance with the last part of an electric 1992 performance.
   0:50-03:22 "Shed a tear 'cause I'm missing you" (Mexico City)
   4:59-6:16 "Just a little patience, yeah, yeah" (Las Vegas) 
  
It's Alright - Houston 1992-09-04*
   Very likely to be original vocals.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   No bootlegs or other known recordings of this show circulate publicly.
   *Tagged as Houston 1992 in official releases.

November Rain - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   The vocals on this track have been completely overdubbed in the studio.
   Overdubbed vocals: 100%
   Axl saying Dizzy at 2:59 has been almost completely muted on Live Era. On the bootleg soundboard recording this is much more audible.
   
Coma - Omaha 1993-04-10*
   Very likely to be original vocals.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   No bootlegs or other known recordings of this show circulate publicly.
   *This is believed to be from Omaha 1993 because of three factors. 
   First, an audience recording claiming to be of this show sold on Ebay around 2010 had Coma as part of the track listing. 
   Second, Axl claims they haven't played Coma in "probably a year or so" in the beginning of this track which lines up well with the previous known performance being the one in Chicago (1992-04-09).
   Third, there's a local Omaha newspaper article from 1993 which mentions Coma being played there.

Out Ta Get Me - London 1987-06-28
   This vocals on this track are untouched. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   You can faintly hear Axl say "I'm gonna dedicate this, to the press, that don't like us" on Live Era. On the bootleg soundboard recording this is much more audible.

Pretty Tied Up - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   The vocals on this track have extensive studio overdubs.
   Overdubbed vocals: 86,5%
   Axl singing "She's the right one" repeatedly towards the end of the song has been cut entirely and not replaced.
   0:29-0:33 "The Perils Of Rock N' Roll Decadence" (Tokyo)
   0:56-2:05 "I know this chick" (studio)
   2:06         "But check it out" (Tokyo)
   2:08-3:20 "Pretty Tied Up" (studio)
   3:21         "Cool ranch dressing" (Tokyo)
   3:22-3:53 "Pretty Tied Up" (studio)
   4:47-5:11 "I can tell you a thing or two about something else" (Tokyo)
   
Yesterdays - Las Vegas 1992-01-25
   This vocals on this track are untouched.   
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   Talk before the song starts has been muted. The cheering after the song has been extended, whereas they actually started playing My Michelle very soon.

Move To The City - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 97,7%
   Amusingly, even the band introduction was overdubbed.
   0:02-0:06 "This is from live like a suicide" (Tokyo)
   0:46-3:51 "You pack your bags" (studio)
   7:46-7:48 "Something something get a beer" (unidentified 1990's show)
    
You Could Be Mine - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   The vocals on this track have extensive studio overdubs.
   Overdubbed vocals: 41,6%
   Axl saying "Perhaps a little Arnold for you" in the beginning has been muted. Axl saying "You could be mine" at 5:16 has been muted.
   1:11-1:33 "I'm a cold heartbreaker fit to burn" (studio)
   1:34         "Oh!" (Tokyo)
   1:36-1:59 "Cause you could be mine" (studio)
   2:00         "Oh!" (Tokyo)
   2:13-2:35 "Holidays come and then they go" (studio)
   2:36         "Oh!" (Tokyo)
   2:37-3:12 "Cause you could be mine" (studio)
   3:14-3:26 "You could be mine" (Tokyo)
   3:26-3:46 "You've gone sketchin' too many times" (studio)
   3:47-5:35 "Another reason to cry" (Tokyo)

Rocket Queen - Las Vegas 1992-01-25
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 98,5%
   Parts of Slash's speech in the beginning is cut out. Adding this back in shifts everything by 34 seconds. Hence an additional timestamp is provided for these vocals to indicate timing that correlates to Live Era.
   2:05-2:39 "If I say I don't need anyone" (studio)                       (1:31-2:05)
   2:43-2:46 "Oh! Smile!" (Las Vegas)                                            (2:09-2:12)
   2:51-3:25 "I've seen everything imaginable" (studio)                (2:17-2:51)
   3:28-3:29 "Oh! Oh!" (Las Vegas)                                                (2:54-2:55)
   5:57-6:17 "Here I am, and you're a Rocket Queen" (studio)     (5:23-5:43)
   6:18         "Oh!" (Las Vegas)                                                       (5:44)
   6:55-8:50 "I see you standing" (studio)                                     (6:21-8:16)
   8:52         "Yeah" (Las Vegas)                                                     (8:18)

Sweet Child O' Mine - Paris 1992-06-06
   The vocals on this track have been completely overdubbed in the studio.
   Overdubbed vocals: 100%
   Bad Time intro has been muted but parts of it remain faintly audible in the beginning of the intro. 
   Axl's original vocals are faintly audible starting at 6:11 "Chi-ild, chi-ild…".

Knockin' On Heaven's Door - London 1992-04-20
   Only two words have been overdubbed.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0,9%
   At 1:33 Axl singing "Ooohh yeeahah, ooh yeah" has been muted, it remains faintly audible.
   0:37-5:04 "Mama take this badge from me" (London)
   5:05-5:06 "Heaven's door" (studio)
   5:06-7:13 "Wooaoaoawaoo ooooh yeah" (London)
   
Don't Cry - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   This vocals on this track are untouched.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%

Estranged - Tokyo 1992-02-22
   The vocals on this track are almost entirely studio overdubbed. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 95,4%
   0:38-3:34 "When you're talking to yourself" (studio)
   3:36-3:39 "Alone! Oh!" (Tokyo)
   3:49-4:08 "So nobody ever told his baby" (studio)
   4:09-4:13 "Ladies and gentlemen, on the keyboards" (Tokyo)
   5:44-6:20 "When I find all of the reasons" (studio)
   6:49-6:52 "Well I jumped into the river" (Tokyo)
   6:52-7:38 "Too many times to make it home" (studio)
   7:38-7:44 "Ow! Ahhh (whistle)" (Tokyo)
   8:32-9:19 "I never found anyone to replace you" (studio)

Paradise City - Las Vegas 1992-01-25 (London 1992-04-20)
   This track is a hybrid of two performances. 
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   Mother intro cut.
   There are clear instances of instruments from Las Vegas under vocals from London, see odd note at 4:06 for an example. I think it's fair to assume the entire instrumental performance is from Las Vegas.
   The chorus vocals edited in from London are an absolute mess. 
   Axl singing "Take me down..." the second time in the first chorus (2nd time in the song) and "Won't ya take me home" the second time in the second chorus (4th time in the song) are used for every chorus.
   The only exception from this is the first chorus in which the original "Why won't ya" lines are used instead of the the first part of "Won't ya take me home" (4).
   Numbers after voice-lines denote which time he sang it in the original performance. A 2 indicates the second time Axl sang a particular line. 
   These numbers are only present when the line is used in a different part of the track on Live Era than on the original performance.
   0:49-0:53 "Take me down…" 2 (London, incorrect line)
   0:54-0:55 "Why won't ya" (London)
   0:56-0:58 "Take me home" 4 (London, incorrect line)
   0:59-1:05 "Take me down… why won't ya" (London)
   1:06-1:08 " Take me home" 4 (London, incorrect line)
   1:08-2:10 "Look out! (Las Vegas)
   2:19-2:31 "Rags to riches or so they say" (London)
   2:31-2:47 "Take me down" 2, Won't ya take me home 4, Take me down 2 (London, incorrect line)
   2:47-2:51 "Won't ya take me home" 4 (London)
   3:01-3:13 "Strapped in the chair" (Las Vegas)
   3:14-3:28 "Take me down" 2, Won't ya take me home 4, Take me down 2 (London, incorrect line)
   3:29-4:02 "Won't ya take me home" (Las Vegas)
   4:03-4:12 "So far away, so far away" (London)
   4:13-4:25 "Captain America has been torn apart" (Las Vegas)
   4:26-4:44 "Take me down" 2, Won't ya take me home 4, Take me down 2, Won't ya take me home 4 (London, incorrect line)
   4:44         "Take it!" (Las Vegas)
   4:54-5:00 "Take me down" 2, Won't ya 4 (London, incorrect line)
   5:01-6:45 "Take me hooooomeeee" (Las Vegas)  

---------------------------------------------------------

November 2022 - Waemoth

Amazing work!
 

Three questions for you. 
 

1. How long did this take you?
 

2. Do you have a job? 
 

3. If yes, what do you do for work that allows you the time it took in order to do this?

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1 hour ago, darkside259 said:

 this is kinda rude 

Not trying to be. I have clients that are day traders and “work” maybe 3 hours a day which frees up their time to do things they actually love. 
 

Generally intrigued by what OP does for work. 

Edited by HollyWoodRose84
Typoooos
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2 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Not trying to be. I have clients that are day traders and “work” maybe 3 hours a day which frees up their time to do things they actually love. 
 

Generally intrigued by what OP does for work. 

Why? You can work on anything of any length if you do it by degrees, gradually. You’re saying people who have a day job can’t e.g. write short stories, because... how could they, right? 
We should be glad someone’s taken the time to do this work. There are other kinds of lists and articles. Look at the Chinese Whispers or Gnrontour or the Zombux’s list of demos or the a-4-d forum. All those people must be jobless! :D 

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6 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Amazing work!
 

Three questions for you. 
 

1. How long did this take you?
 

2. Do you have a job? 
 

3. If yes, what do you do for work that allows you the time it took in order to do this?

Thank you!

I'd say between 12-24 hours, somewhere in that ballpark. In other words anyone who put away a little more than 3 hours per day could get it done in a week.

I'm a full time student which allows me to be somewhat more flexible than most.

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Love this sort of insight, great read thanks.
A couple of things that might be worth adding to your document, since you mention edits.

The microphone feedback in the guitar intro of KOHD has been muted that can be heard in the b-side and video version before the drums come in.

The female vocals have been muted in Yesterdays, notably when they do the callback of ‘destiny’ in the verse on the 1993 b-side version.

We can tell Slash’s guitar is out of tune on Nightrain in Vegas on the new box set release (at least from the first solo onwards I think?), so does that open up the idea that Slash did do re-records, or at least the guitar was dropped in from another performance?

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51 minutes ago, BC83 said:

Love this sort of insight, great read thanks.
A couple of things that might be worth adding to your document, since you mention edits.

The microphone feedback in the guitar intro of KOHD has been muted that can be heard in the b-side and video version before the drums come in.

The female vocals have been muted in Yesterdays, notably when they do the callback of ‘destiny’ in the verse on the 1993 b-side version.

We can tell Slash’s guitar is out of tune on Nightrain in Vegas on the new box set release (at least from the first solo onwards I think?), so does that open up the idea that Slash did do re-records, or at least the guitar was dropped in from another performance?

Good find on KOHD! 

I didn't bring that up at all, but I probably should have. The female backing vocals are generally louder by quite a bit on Live Era than the other recordings. I can definitely see them having muted these vocals altogether.

I listened to Nightrain again, and the guitar solos around 3:53 are definitely the same. They could have done some pitch correction or something to it, but I think the main reason it isn't as obvious on Live Era is that it's somewhat hidden in the mix. 

I'm very intrigued by the wrong note by Izzy at 1:30 in My Michelle. It's not easy to hear if it's there on the audience recordings, especially given that his guitar was so low for most of the UYI tour. This is a good candidate for some studio shenanigans, but if it is original it would suggest all instruments throughout Live Era are original.

Just now, ©GnrPersia said:

4. Obviously there were other people involved. Give us names and locations

5. Who was funding this massive work? IRA? CIA? MI6?

[img]https://i.ibb.co/PM5yMts/Capture.jpg[/img]

Actually it was former KGB employees working high up in Russia who asked me to do this, and they provided a lot of the information. I've been paid millions of rubles for this analysis. But this is all supposed to be secret, so I'd prefer if you all didn't talk too much about it.

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18 minutes ago, Waemoth said:

To give a couple of examples on Nightrain, using the Spotify timestamps; compare from 2:58 UYI box set vs 2:52 LE on the right speaker/Slash side. The open high string stabs on the chords are out of tune only on the UYI version. Around 3:34-3:35 on UYI Slash fumbles a bit sliding up to find the right note, it’s a lot cleaner on LE landing on that note at 3:28-3:29. The general rhythm playing prior to that note on the UYI version is not as defined as the out of tune guitar makes the playing sound messier overall. Just some food for thought anyway.  I found that fake crowd noise quite off putting when trying to pick up on the details!

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21 minutes ago, BC83 said:

To give a couple of examples on Nightrain, using the Spotify timestamps; compare from 2:58 UYI box set vs 2:52 LE on the right speaker/Slash side. The open high string stabs on the chords are out of tune only on the UYI version. Around 3:34-3:35 on UYI Slash fumbles a bit sliding up to find the right note, it’s a lot cleaner on LE landing on that note at 3:28-3:29. The general rhythm playing prior to that note on the UYI version is not as defined as the out of tune guitar makes the playing sound messier overall. Just some food for thought anyway.  I found that fake crowd noise quite off putting when trying to pick up on the details!

I find it quite difficult to pick out these differences for the guitars and other instruments, so I really love to hear any feedback like this.

First of all, would it be possible to "fix" a guitar that's out of tune recorded on multitrack by pitch correcting it? I think that example you give of 2:52 could possibly be explained by this.

However the note on 3:28 is an amazing find. Those are very likely to be different guitar tracks. The question then becomes what the source is for the Live Era guitar track. It could just as easily be another UYI show as an overdub.

Agreed on the fake crowd noise being annoying. It almost feels like they tried to use crowd noise and weird mixing to hide Axl's vocals, and perhaps also these discrepancies in the guitar track on Live Era.

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