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Live Era detailed analysis


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5 hours ago, Waemoth said:

Thank you!

I'd say between 12-24 hours, somewhere in that ballpark. In other words anyone who put away a little more than 3 hours per day could get it done in a week.

I'm a full time student which allows me to be somewhat more flexible than most.

You’re welcome. Absolutely phenomenal analysis.
 

 What are you studying? 

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Great stuff man, well done. 

I do think there are instrumental overdubs. I didn't listen to the new releases more than once, and it's been some time since I got the Live Era some listening, but the overall unpolished performances of the UYI rerelease are def different. 

And I still don't know if it's Robin doing backing vocals in Mr. Brownstone. 

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Very nice of you to take the time to figure this out.

I believe this has been discussed for a long time, but are any of the overdubs expected to be from the re-recorded AFD album? One easy reference would be the second half of the Big Daddy release and SCOM from Live Era.

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If @Waemoth or anyone else for that matter manages to figure out where the speech before ISE is from please share it with the rest of us. That thread I made which is pasted on page 1 tried to get to the bottom of if a couple of years back but since we didn't have any recordings of Vegas back then we (or at least I) assumed that to be where it was from, but now we know that ain't the case.

Rio is a very interesting suggestion and one that is very plausible. I have for some reason always felt that it's taken from an arena show though since he mentions the "houselights" as well as their light guy called "Phil" and I would assume that RiR would have their own guy controlling the festival towers main lights and would Axl refeer to the lights from the festival stage and towers as houselights? It also sounds like the speech was recorded indoors (mainly gut feeling though :lol:). But then it may well have been the case that "Phil" controlled the main lights around the stage when GNR played and that Axl refereed to the lights from festival towers as houselights since that's what he would usually call the lights shining on the crowd. 

Sorry for rambling on a bit but I agree that, for now, Rio seems most probable. However, I'm far from entirely sold on it :) 

P.S. This is the only thing that has bothered me about the Vegas show being released... I had finally come to peace with "knowing" that Axl's Live Era speech was from that show, but no, it turns out it didn't :lol:

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18 minutes ago, Swedish said:

If @Waemoth or anyone else for that matter manages to figure out where the speech before ISE is from please share it with the rest of us. That thread I made which is pasted on page 1 tried to get to the bottom of if a couple of years back but since we didn't have any recordings of Vegas back then we (or at least I) assumed that to be where it was from, but now we know that ain't the case.

Rio is a very interesting suggestion and one that is very plausible. I have for some reason always felt that it's taken from an arena show though since he mentions the "houselights" as well as their light guy called "Phil" and I would assume that RiR would have their own guy controlling the festival towers main lights and would Axl refeer to the lights from the festival stage and towers as houselights? It also sounds like the speech was recorded indoors (mainly gut feeling though :lol:). But then it may well have been the case that "Phil" controlled the main lights around the stage when GNR played and that Axl refereed to the lights from festival towers as houselights since that's what he would usually call the lights shining on the crowd. 

Sorry for rambling on a bit but I agree that, for now, Rio seems most probable. However, I'm far from entirely sold on it :) 

P.S. This is the only thing that has bothered me about the Vegas show being released... I had finally come to peace with "knowing" that Axl's Live Era speech was from that show, but no, it turns out it didn't :lol:

I found another instance of Axl speaking to Phil about lights at another 1991 show a few days ago, but I didn't write it down and forgot it. Now the speech wasn't from there but it sent me googling. Apparently this Phil Ealy seems to have been involved for the entire UYI tour as per: https://www.germanlightproducts.com/tag/phil-ealy/

There are some issues with Rio being the source, Axl saying that they've only just started being one. It doesn't make perfect sense to say that after 11 songs, but you never know. It would make sense for the speech to have come from there in the sense that the end of YCBM and the beginning of ISE are both cut - maybe because they didn't want to feature this rant by Axl in the broadcast. I think Rio is a hot contender, but it's far from guaranteed to be the source.

5 minutes ago, gabmmor said:

What about the speech before Used to Love Her? Anyone knows where is it from?

It's from the same performance as Used To Love Her. So it's original, nothing weird going on with that.

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44 minutes ago, Waemoth said:

I found another instance of Axl speaking to Phil about lights at another 1991 show a few days ago, but I didn't write it down and forgot it. Now the speech wasn't from there but it sent me googling. Apparently this Phil Ealy seems to have been involved for the entire UYI tour as per: https://www.germanlightproducts.com/tag/phil-ealy/

There are some issues with Rio being the source, Axl saying that they've only just started being one. It doesn't make perfect sense to say that after 11 songs, but you never know. It would make sense for the speech to have come from there in the sense that the end of YCBM and the beginning of ISE are both cut - maybe because they didn't want to feature this rant by Axl in the broadcast. I think Rio is a hot contender, but it's far from guaranteed to be the source.

It's from the same performance as Used To Love Her. So it's original, nothing weird going on with that.

Cool to read that it’s the same guy doing the lights now, I didn’t know that! :)

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22 hours ago, Waemoth said:

The entirety of Li(v)e Era apart from It's Alright and Coma has been synched up to their original performance(s) and compared using Audacity, with Live Era as the left channel and the original performance(s) as the right channel. 

November 2022 - Waemoth

Wow, thanks for "wasting" your time doing that analysis. :thumbsup:

 

My conclusion is: Whoever thinks that CD is a Frankenstein-Album, has just been proven wrong. ;) Overdubbing in the middle of a word... ridiculous. Because that is in fact wasted time. 

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4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I can imagine Axl in a ProTools frenzy, sitting at night with Billy Howerdel and saying "let's put this line from this show here and that line from the other show here".

Hopefully @Gambit83 interviews Howerdel again someday and asks him if he remembers working on this.

Somebody HAS to remember this. This period was by far, IMO the best, healthy sounding vocals Axl has produced on record. Estranged’s vocals alone are noteworthy. 

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  • 1 year later...

I dont think the 'take a step back' speech is from Rio.

I think its from a 1993 arena show. Or overdubbed.

Because, the sound quality sounds similar to Coma (Omaha 93)

You can hear someone in the crowd saying ''i am already'' with a american accent after Axl asks to take a step back. Its unlikely the crowd in Rio was silent enough to capture one dude with a American accent.

Axl said that the show just started and in the missing audio from Rio where it could be from is towards the end of the gig.

 

We have quite alot of uncirculated shows from the Spring 1993 tour. Unlike the rest of the UYI tour is quite well documented.

 

 

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On 11/24/2022 at 1:21 PM, Blackstar said:

I can imagine Axl in a ProTools frenzy, sitting at night with Billy Howerdel and saying "let's put this line from this show here and that line from the other show here".

Hopefully @Gambit83 interviews Howerdel again someday and asks him if he remembers working on this.

I saw James Barber speak at a music business seminar just about 9 years ago. He worked A&R with Geffen in the 1990s and the live album and the beginning stages of Chinese Democracy were some of his last projects working at the label. He spoke about both of them briefly. To be fair, I take what he said with a grain of salt as he stated Axl, to his knowledge, did not record any new vocals. I think, objectively, that his been proven incorrect. 

What he did say was that, when this project got proposed around late 1997/early 1998, it was starting to become clear that a new album was (at least) two or three years away. The label was desperate for anything Guns N' Roses related they could rush to the stores. In order to give the record label something and convince them to keep funding recording sessions for what would become Chinese Democracy, it was apparently Doug Goldstein who suggested the idea of a live album and the record label ate it up (it was an added bonus that the project could be marketed around the "classic" lineups of the band). The label was on-board and Slash/Duff were really stoked on the idea, so it seemed like a win-win. He said even Axl was excited about a live album and thought it would be a good "sendoff" for the older lineups before moving into the "new" era. 

Barber said the problem was, right after this project got approved, the current band actually started making some substantial progress on writing new songs and dong some preliminary recording on what would become Chinese Democracy. With all that going on, Axl apparently lost all interest in the live album. Axl outsourced all of the work on finding old recordings and working with Duff and Slash's teams to make the final track list to Del James. Barber said he still enjoys the album, but felt it could have been a much more unified product had Axl stayed more focused on it. Instead, he felt (and knew fans felt) that the whole thing had a "slapped together" quality to it. 

All this is to say, I'd be curious to know how much actual involvement Axl had in how his vocals were presented on the album. On one hand, we know he must have done some re-recording of vocals. Furthermore, it does seem stereotypically "Axl" to go down to the granular level of using different vocal performances for individual phrases in the same song. At the same time, I am inclined to believe Axl really did not give much attention to this project. Even in that Kurt Loder interview from 1999 (the one time I can remember Axl talking about the album), he seems fairly disinterested in it. 

FYI, Barber said he personally loved Chinese Democracy. He said, to him, it really hit all the goals Axl talked about in the 1990s in terms of how it would sound. While he said he could understand why some people didn't dig it, he also looks at one metric of an album's success being whether or not it reflects the goals of the artist. He says, whether or not you like the album, it seems like the complete statement Axl wanted to make with the record. He also said he had seen GN'R for the first time since the 1990s in Atlanta at the Tabernacle in 2012 and thought it was an excellent show. 

Edited by themadcaplaughs
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On 3/22/2024 at 1:50 AM, rebeldhipi said:

Because, the sound quality sounds similar to Coma (Omaha 93)

i always had this mind and this idea

time will tell. Maybe there are uncircled or official recordings out there. I listen alot of UYI audio bootlegs... never heard this speech

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On 11/23/2022 at 1:05 PM, Waemoth said:


   
Coma - Omaha 1993-04-10*
   Very likely to be original vocals.
   Overdubbed vocals: 0%
   No bootlegs or other known recordings of this show circulate publicly.
   *This is believed to be from Omaha 1993 because of three factors. 
   First, an audience recording claiming to be of this show sold on Ebay around 2010 had Coma as part of the track listing. 
   Second, Axl claims they haven't played Coma in "probably a year or so" in the beginning of this track which lines up well with the previous known performance being the one in Chicago (1992-04-09).
   Third, there's a local Omaha newspaper article from 1993 which mentions Coma being played there.

 

Fourth, I was there and can confirm that this was Omaha. I remember Axl's banter before playing. 

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14 hours ago, Carne_asaDA said:

Fourth, I was there and can confirm that this was Omaha. I remember Axl's banter before playing. 

can you remember if Axl Rose told the crowd to take a step back. The speech of Axl after "Mr. Brownstone Live Era Version" ?

It's unknown where the speech came from. But the "probably a year or so", (Omaha 1993) and "step back" (Live Era with a layer fake crowd over the speech and real crowd) sounds similare... atleast in my subjective opinion and ears

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On 3/25/2024 at 5:55 AM, t-p-d-a said:

can you remember if Axl Rose told the crowd to take a step back. The speech of Axl after "Mr. Brownstone Live Era Version" ?

It's unknown where the speech came from. But the "probably a year or so", (Omaha 1993) and "step back" (Live Era with a layer fake crowd over the speech and real crowd) sounds similare... atleast in my subjective opinion and ears

 

That did NOT happen in Omaha. 

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6 hours ago, allwaystired said:

What amazes me with this is that they even altered individual lines in songs, so half of one line is from one show, half from another. 

The amount of effort this must have taken is remarkable.....for what gain really? Madness. 

Cocaine and ProTools are a helluva drug

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