What is the story behind the Live Era '87 - '93 Music Video of Welcome To The Jungle?

[mystery]

On 2/2/2023 at 4:32 PM, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Yeah, before Nirvana I think GNR changed the face of rock music back in 88. They were heavy rock and not like the previous hair bands. And they lived that life too.

I remember seeing it during a Headbanger's Ball and since Axl teased his hair up very high I thought it was another hair band, but not they weren't.

I think they were talking more about this new WTTJ video that came out in the late 90's when rock music had shifted to nu metal and post grunge along with boy bands and bling bling rap. 

[LoadedNightraiN]

This video premiered on an episode of Total Request Live. A show that was nothing but Top 40 pop hits. I'll never forget when it ended and they went back to Carson Daly... He had a blank stare on his face and said something to the affect of "Well... That was interesting". I think Axl might have even done a phone interview for this or OMG, which was released around the same time

 

I know I have it on VHS somewhere, but no VCR to play it

[Carburetta]

Don’t remember/wasn’t aware of this video at the time of release, and have only seen it fleetingly since. It’s cool though, if a little disturbing.

[Bitchisback]

12 hours ago, LoadedNightraiN said:

This video premiered on an episode of Total Request Live. A show that was nothing but Top 40 pop hits. 

TRL played plenty of rock and metal music too.  I remember seeing Rage Against the Machine and STP videos premiered, Powerman 5000, Korn, Mudvayne, Deftones, etc.

[mystery]

8 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

TRL played plenty of rock and metal music too.  I remember seeing Rage Against the Machine and STP videos premiered, Powerman 5000, Korn, Mudvayne, Deftones, etc.

Those were all with the exception of STP decidedly nu-metal sounding or in RATM's case rap rock. Guns N' Roses and a lot of rock bands that started in the 80's-early 90's were not getting that kind of play by the late 90's. Guns N' Roses were already seen as kind of a throwback. Even Axl knew this around 1994-95 which is why he didn't want to continue in the same vein as their previous albums and Chinese Democracy wound up sounding much more like the music that was coming out around 1997-2001. 

[Bitchisback]

1 hour ago, mystery said:

Those were all with the exception of STP decidedly nu-metal sounding or in RATM's case rap rock. Guns N' Roses and a lot of rock bands that started in the 80's-early 90's were not getting that kind of play by the late 90's. Guns N' Roses were already seen as kind of a throwback. Even Axl knew this around 1994-95 which is why he didn't want to continue in the same vein as their previous albums and Chinese Democracy wound up sounding much more like the music that was coming out around 1997-2001. 

I'm not saying GNR wasn't considered a classic band at that point or TRL was playing a ton of rock n roll music, I'm just saying it was playing a lot more than pop

It's funny thinking back about it because like I said I was 15 in 1999 and even though GnR was only 5 years removed from the public spotlight they already felt grouped in with classic rock bands such as AC/DC, Aerosmith and Zeppelin.

[©GnrPersia]

1 hour ago, Bitchisback said:

It's funny thinking back about it because like I said I was 15 in 1999 and even though GnR was only 5 years removed from the public spotlight they already felt grouped in with classic rock bands such as AC/DC, Aerosmith and Zeppelin.

That's a very interesting point.

During the grunge movement of the early 1990s, alternative rock and punk rock gained popularity and killed Hard Rock's popularity. In addition, Kurt Cobain's suicide also snuffed out grunge itself, despite Sonic Youth, Portishead, and Oasis' best efforts.

It all happened so quickly. It was no longer cool to be rockstars on heroin and drugs. (Duff talks about that in his book "It's So Easy...")

In 1999, rap groups were all over MTV, and in 2000, Eminem's Marshal Mathers bulldozed what was left of rock. There was so much impact that metalheads had to adapt to the new norms to keep the business, and Korn and Limp Bizkit were born. By 1999, riding Harley-Davidsons, wearing bandanas, and hanging out at Rainbow bar and such were no longer mainstream. Long epic songs by GNR and Meatloaf weren't the thing.

Makes me sad each time I think about it.

Edited February 7, 2023 by ©GnrPersia

[Rovim]

21 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

That's a very interesting point.

During the grunge movement of the early 1990s, alternative rock and punk rock gained popularity and killed Hard Rock's popularity. In addition, Kurt Cobain's suicide also snuffed out grunge itself, despite Sonic Youth, Portishead, and Oasis' best efforts.

It all happened so quickly. It was no longer cool to be rockstars on heroin and drugs. (Duff talks about that in his book "It's So Easy...")

In 1999, rap groups were all over MTV, and in 2000, Eminem's Marshal Mathers bulldozed what was left of rock. There was so much impact that metalheads had to adapt to the new norms to keep the business, and Korn and Limp Bizkit were born. By 1999, riding Harley-Davidsons, wearing bandanas, and hanging out at Rainbow bar and such were no longer mainstream. Long epic songs by GNR and Meatloaf weren't the thing.

Makes me sad each time I think about it.

hard rock was still popular in many parts of the world throughout the '90's. Oasis was I guess you can call it mainstream british rock, catchy and heavily influenced by The Beatles. Eminiem didn't bulldozed what was left of rock, there was a shift to alternative rock, , MTV2 was a thing, a lot of bands other than just Korn and Limp Bizkit found success, but it was more modern with less guitar solos for the most part, there were The White Stripes, The Hives, The Vines, The Strokes, Black Label Motorcycle Club, At The Drive In,  Razorlight, Kaiser Chiefs, Arcade Fire, QOTSA got pretty big with Songs For The Deaf, etc. Rap became bigger, but rock and metal were still a thing, it's just that classic rock wasn't where the exciting shit was happening to a lot of people.

in the mean time Iron Maiden released A Brave New World in 1999 and were kinda back, so post punk/alternative rock alongside rap and pop all had audiences and in 2004 even classic rock had a short comeback which Velvet Revolver were a part of. It also depends on which part of the world we're talking about cause in the UK a lot of stuff were happening with shit like The Libertines for example. Wasn't that sad imo. Also bands like The Darkness which didn't take themselves too seriously were part of it and it all happened between 1999 and 2005 give or take.

[©GnrPersia]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

hard rock was still popular in many parts of the world throughout the '90's. Oasis was I guess you can call it mainstream british rock, catchy and heavily influenced by The Beatles. Eminiem didn't bulldozed what was left of rock, there was a shift to alternative rock, , MTV2 was a thing, a lot of bands other than just Korn and Limp Bizkit found success, but it was more modern with less guitar solos for the most part, there were The White Stripes, The Hives, The Vines, The Strokes, Black Label Motorcycle Club, At The Drive In,  Razorlight, Kaiser Chiefs, Arcade Fire, QOTSA got pretty big with Songs For The Deaf, etc. Rap became bigger, but rock and metal were still a thing, it's just that classic rock wasn't where the exciting shit was happening to a lot of people.

in the mean time Iron Maiden released A Brave New World in 1999 and were kinda back, so post punk/alternative rock alongside rap and pop all had audiences and in 2004 even classic rock had a short comeback which Velvet Revolver were a part of. It also depends on which part of the world we're talking about cause in the UK a lot of stuff were happening with shit like The Libertines for example. Wasn't that sad imo. Also bands like The Darkness which didn't take themselves too seriously were part of it and it all happened between 1999 and 2005 give or take.

I had to use the term 'classic rock' in my text, then it'll be more or less accurate.

Also I was more talking about my perspective on what was going on in 1999-2000. Of course from 2002 onwards, the bands you've mentioned such as The White Stripes, The Hives, The Strokes etc, were constantly getting aired on MTV and VH1 alongside lollipops like Nickleback, Avril Lavinge, Christina, Dido and so on. So yea, softer, less serious (imo) versions of rock.

[Rovim]

6 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

I had to use the term 'classic rock' in my text, then it'll be more or less accurate.

Also I was more talking about my perspective on what was going on in 1999-2000. Of course from 2002 onwards, the bands you've mentioned such as The White Stripes, The Hives, The Strokes etc, were constantly getting aired on MTV and VH1 alongside lollipops like Nickleback, Avril Lavinge, Christina, Dido and so on. So yea, softer, less serious (imo) versions of rock.

also a lot of bands which were a little older found success like System Of A Down . Buckcherry released their debut album in '99 which found success and that's very classic hard rock imo. As I see it, rock and metal were just going through a change to the next phase of it, but it wasn't really mainstream anymore as a whole, guitar music in general, pop and rap were becoming bigger.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Rovim

[Tom2112]

28 minutes ago, Rovim said:

also a lot of bands which were a little older found success like System Of A Down . Buckcherry released their debut album in '99 which found success and that's very classic hard rock imo. As I see it, rock and metal were just going through a change to the next phase of it, but it wasn't really mainstream anymore as a whole, guitar music in general, pop and rap were becoming bigger.

Yeah, all the way through the early 00s right up until the 2010s guitar music was pretty big on radio. Killers, Kings of leon, RHCP and many others were also constantly played in any college setting I was at, the rap stuff was not as dominant. I think it's hitting a bit of balance again now, although rock music in general is considered underground... but with that will be it's resurgence. 

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, ©GnrPersia said:

 

During the grunge movement of the early 1990s, alternative rock and punk rock gained popularity and killed Hard Rock's popularity. In addition, Kurt Cobain's suicide also snuffed out grunge 

Grunge isn’t a music genre. Bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam are also considered hard rock. But it was called ‘grunge’ because that word became popular at the time.

[mystery]

Pop culture shifted much faster in those days so bands like the Strokes, The Hives, the White Stripes, and Queens of the Stone Age came more into prominence in the early 2000s even if some of them started in the 90's.

1997-2002 was decidedly the heyday for nu-metal with post-grunge right there with it but around 2001 garage style rock, 70's style rock, pop-punk, and emo became popular. Guns N' Roses oddly fits better around 2003-2007 than they did when that video came out in late 1999.

Edited February 7, 2023 by mystery

[Legendador]

32 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Grunge isn’t a music genre. Bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam are also considered hard rock. But it was called ‘grunge’ because that word became popular at the time.

Wait, what? Nirvana and Pearl Jam where never considered Hard Rock, if you don't want to call it "Grunge" ok, at least "Aternative Rock" or "Punk-ish Rock" but to those bands, to be put in the Hard Rock category was a major offense and they were far far away from it.

[Legendador]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Yeah, all the way through the early 00s right up until the 2010s guitar music was pretty big on radio. Killers, Kings of leon, RHCP and many others were also constantly played in any college setting I was at, the rap stuff was not as dominant. I think it's hitting a bit of balance again now, although rock music in general is considered underground... but with that will be it's resurgence. 

I don't think Rock or Hard Rock will never be mainstream again, the torch is carried by those legacy bands such Kiss, Guns, Motley Crue, good or band, after these 80's nostalgia acts quit touring or releasing music, Hard Rock will be just history and nothing way too relevant will come out of it. There's a role new (Actually two) generation(s) that don't connect with this type of music anymore. And music connects with the behaviour and ideals of generations.

Also, bands that are trying to create that classic hard rock style are failing miserably. Name one new hard rock band that's relevant. There's no classical albums anymore. To me, the last classical HARD ROCK album was UYI. RHCP is funk Rock and made classical albuns after the 90s, Ozzy is classic after classic, but is way more Heavy Metal and now just classic Rock than Hard Rock.

There's nothing new / relevant in hard rock anymore.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Legendador

[Legendador]

5 hours ago, mystery said:

Those were all with the exception of STP decidedly nu-metal sounding or in RATM's case rap rock. Guns N' Roses and a lot of rock bands that started in the 80's-early 90's were not getting that kind of play by the late 90's. Guns N' Roses were already seen as kind of a throwback. Even Axl knew this around 1994-95 which is why he didn't want to continue in the same vein as their previous albums and Chinese Democracy wound up sounding much more like the music that was coming out around 1997-2001. 

This is interesting, Never tought about that! Maybe if Chinese Democracy was released back in 1997 - 2001 it could become a classic. Now that you've pointed that out, the album actually sounds dated and sounded dated on 2008.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Legendador

[mystery]

To show how dire current mainstream rock is, they gave Ozzy Osbourne the Grammy for best rock album and with the exception of Greta Van Fleet none of the winners of that award since 2010 started in that decade. They even had Led Zeppelin win that award in 2014.

Edited February 7, 2023 by mystery

[Legendador]

6 minutes ago, mystery said:

To show how dire current mainstream rock is, they gave Ozzy Osbourne the Grammy for best rock album and with the exception of Greta Van Fleet none of the winners of that award since 2010 started in that decade. They even had Led Zeppelin win that award in 2014.

If Guns had released anything, would they be fit to run for a Grammy? Why do you think they were never considered for the award! I think it's so odd they don't have a Grammy!

[©GnrPersia]

30 minutes ago, mystery said:

To show how dire current mainstream rock is, they gave Ozzy Osbourne the Grammy for best rock album and with the exception of Greta Van Fleet none of the winners of that award since 2010 started in that decade. They even had Led Zeppelin win that award in 2014.

That's so true. Well, at the end of the day, we're living in K-POP era.

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

Grunge isn’t a music genre. Bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam are also considered hard rock. But it was called ‘grunge’ because that word became popular at the time.

Generally I prefer not to really categorize music bands (and most type of modern art) with subgenres. In a broader sense you might be right and these bands could be rock (but hard rock? I don't know, I'm not good at labeling!).
I'm sure you also do not want to fall into genre trap as well :-) 

I really enjoy such discussions although this is becoming off-topic but keep it coming people!

Edited February 7, 2023 by ©GnrPersia

[©GnrPersia]

9 minutes ago, Legendador said:

If Guns had released anything, would they be fit to run for a Grammy? Why do you think they were never considered for the award! I think it's so odd they don't have a Grammy!

Which one should win the award? Hard School or Absurd?

And then these two flimsy singles gonna compete with new albums by Dream Theater's, Metallica's 72 Season, Rammstein's Zeit? lol

[Bitchisback]

1 hour ago, Legendador said:

I don't think Rock or Hard Rock will never be mainstream again, the torch is carried by those legacy bands such Kiss, Guns, Motley Crue, good or band, after these 80's nostalgia acts quit touring or releasing music, Hard Rock will be just history and nothing way too relevant will come out of it. There's a role new (Actually two) generation(s) that don't connect with this type of music anymore. And music connects with the behaviour and ideals of generations.

Also, bands that are trying to create that classic hard rock style are failing miserably. Name one new hard rock band that's relevant. There's no classical albums anymore. To me, the last classical HARD ROCK album was UYI. RHCP is funk Rock and made classical albuns after the 90s, Ozzy is classic after classic, but is way more Heavy Metal and now just classic Rock than Hard Rock.

There's nothing new / relevant in hard rock anymore.

Not sure I agree it won't ever come back. Look at the success Måneskin is having as a new glam rock band. Which certainly came out of nowhere. You never know what is around the corner and what's going to shape what is mainstream.  Machine Gun Kelly left rap and found success as a pop punk artist.  Post Malone could certainly wake up one day and decide to do a rock album.  Hardy has recently found success as a country/rock crossover artist.  

 

Not saying hard rock is going to be the number one gerne or music any time soon but I also wouldn't rule it out of the right artist comes along 

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, Legendador said:

I don't think Rock or Hard Rock will never be mainstream again, the torch is carried by those legacy bands such Kiss, Guns, Motley Crue, good or band, after these 80's nostalgia acts quit touring or releasing music, Hard Rock will be just history and nothing way too relevant will come out of it. There's a role new (Actually two) generation(s) that don't connect with this type of music anymore. And music connects with the behaviour and ideals of generations.

Also, bands that are trying to create that classic hard rock style are failing miserably. Name one new hard rock band that's relevant. There's no classical albums anymore. To me, the last classical HARD ROCK album was UYI. RHCP is funk Rock and made classical albuns after the 90s, Ozzy is classic after classic, but is way more Heavy Metal and now just classic Rock than Hard Rock.

There's nothing new / relevant in hard rock anymore.

Mammoth WVH. New hardrock that is quite successful and not just playing retro rock... While also not quite reinventing the wheel.

Also, there's a lot of young people going to see kiss, motley, gnr, Metallica etc. They are clearly connecting with the music.

You mistake chart success and things like that for meaning there isn't good new music out there. The actual reality is that rock bands are not signed to major labels and that means they aren't pushed into Spotify playlists and they aren't able to reach you or other jaded rock fans. But whether we like it or not there are bands out there playing hard rock music and selling a lot of tickets, and naturally growing similar to how it was in the days before the internet. Dirty honey, Greta van fleet neither are the most original but they have big fan bases for relatively young bands 

 

[mystery]

I could only imagine the reason they'd release this video is:

1. For promotion of the album. The band wasn't touring and promotion still very much revolved around music videos at the time.

2. To keep the band in the public eye which was one of the main reasons for Live Era as a stopgap release. There was still hope that Chinese Democracy would release in 2000 and releasing their first live album seemed like a good idea in the meantime.

Edited February 8, 2023 by mystery

[Spaghetti4twenty]

6 hours ago, Legendador said:

Now that you've pointed that out, the album actually sounds dated and sounded dated on 2008.

I never thought it sounded dated, then again I never really compared it to any Nu Metal. What an era in music…“Chocolate starfish and the hot dog flavored water” 🤣
 

as far as the mixing goes, I think it might be as high as GNR will ever reach. CD still sounds ahead of its time, especially when comparing it to Hard Skool 

[Rovim]

I think the mainstream gets bored of it, no matter what genre it is and moves on to something else or a variation/combination of it and when that also becomes boring, sometimes there is demand for retro bands which could get away with not really sounding original or have something to say, but it ticks enough boxes to give you a convincing enough copy of old great bands.

Wolfmother and Greta Van Fleet I think are good examples for two Zeppelin copy bands from different times that made it cause there is always an audience for bands that know how to use an established formula but with their personality or even without one. Royal Blood, etc.

or Dirty Honey and Airborn, you just make sure you'v got enough of the sound that makes the huge bands like Aerosmith and AC/DC great. The more interesting bands that do that for me, are ones that combine at least 2 main influences like even The Darkness had like a nice Queen/AC/DC retro combo.

the most interesting new bands for me combine enough influences that it sounds fresh and have a strong personality to make it feel like something new or just a combination of influences which are quite different from one another, even if it's all old elements like Nirvana mixing The Beatles, Black Sabbath, and The Pixies, etc with actually having the talent to write good songs and if you have the charisma to sell it, it could become the real deal, like Nirvana was.

I think QOTSA did it in an interesting way: you've got ginger Elvis taking elements from stoner rock with enough personality, the band can really play their instruments, and love for rock n' roll, but also an interest in carving a new niche, not just being retro. I remember Duff saying how they were the only band that were doing proper hard rock in the mid 2000 even if I'm not sure I agree with it. 

Audioslave were pretty big as well, but the band members were already established and there was a heavy Zeppelin influence, naturally.