What is the story behind the Live Era '87 - '93 Music Video of Welcome To The Jungle?

[EvanG]

8 hours ago, Legendador said:

Wait, what? Nirvana and Pearl Jam where never considered Hard Rock, if you don't want to call it "Grunge" ok, at least "Aternative Rock" or "Punk-ish Rock" but to those bands, to be put in the Hard Rock category was a major offense and they were far far away from it.

They're not considered hard rock? They make music with guitars with a lot of distortion and loud drums. What should we call it instead? Reggae? They even considered themselves hard rock. I've seen enough interviews with Kurt where he described the music of Nirvana as hard rock. Most of those bands didn't like the word grunge because it was just a made up word by some British journalist. Of course a lot of those bands from that time had also metal and punk and pop influences, but a lot of their music also fell into the hard rock genre. Teen Spirit, Alive, Black Hole Sun, just to name a few of their biggest hits, are all hard rock songs. 

8 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

Generally I prefer not to really categorize music bands (and most type of modern art) with subgenres. In a broader sense you might be right and these bands could be rock (but hard rock? I don't know, I'm not good at labeling!).
I'm sure you also do not want to fall into genre trap as well :-) 

I really enjoy such discussions although this is becoming off-topic but keep it coming people!

I just disagreed with your previous comment that punk and alt-rock killed off hard rock because that's simply not true. 

[Legendador]

13 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

Which one should win the award? Hard School or Absurd?

And then these two flimsy singles gonna compete with new albums by Dream Theater's, Metallica's 72 Season, Rammstein's Zeit? lol

I'm not talking about those, but at least Use Your Illusion back in the 90s? Chinese Democracy maybe?

12 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

Not sure I agree it won't ever come back. Look at the success Måneskin is having as a new glam rock band. Which certainly came out of nowhere. You never know what is around the corner and what's going to shape what is mainstream.  Machine Gun Kelly left rap and found success as a pop punk artist.  Post Malone could certainly wake up one day and decide to do a rock album.  Hardy has recently found success as a country/rock crossover artist.  

 

Not saying hard rock is going to be the number one gerne or music any time soon but I also wouldn't rule it out of the right artist comes along 

But Maneskin is generic pop and it's a Label forcing it to the mainstream. They don't have solid, classic songs and I can't see thgem lasting Ten Years with all this success. This band is so fabricated.

MGK and PM are great, but they never be hard rock.

[Legendador]

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Mammoth WVH. New hardrock that is quite successful and not just playing retro rock... While also not quite reinventing the wheel.

Also, there's a lot of young people going to see kiss, motley, gnr, Metallica etc. They are clearly connecting with the music.

You mistake chart success and things like that for meaning there isn't good new music out there. The actual reality is that rock bands are not signed to major labels and that means they aren't pushed into Spotify playlists and they aren't able to reach you or other jaded rock fans. But whether we like it or not there are bands out there playing hard rock music and selling a lot of tickets, and naturally growing similar to how it was in the days before the internet. Dirty honey, Greta van fleet neither are the most original but they have big fan bases for relatively young bands 

 

You've named a one band, one single band that's not mainstream, and it will never be, there's no room for this type of music to go mainstream outside the music industry.

For the young people going to see kiss, motley, gnr is clearly what makes them go see Metallica (Stranger Things - Master of Puppets), it's just the 80s hype that Miley Cirus and ST brought back. It is not solid.

7 hours ago, Spaghetti4twenty said:

I never thought it sounded dated, then again I never really compared it to any Nu Metal. What an era in music…“Chocolate starfish and the hot dog flavored water” 🤣
 

as far as the mixing goes, I think it might be as high as GNR will ever reach. CD still sounds ahead of its time, especially when comparing it to Hard Skool 

I really don't know, listening to better, or madagascar, it should be left in the end of the 90s.

[Legendador]

5 hours ago, EvanG said:

They're not considered hard rock? They make music with guitars with a lot of distortion and loud drums. What should we call it instead? Reggae? They even considered themselves hard rock. I've seen enough interviews with Kurt where he described the music of Nirvana as hard rock. Most of those bands didn't like the word grunge because it was just a made up word by some British journalist. Of course a lot of those bands from that time had also metal and punk and pop influences, but a lot of their music also fell into the hard rock genre. Teen Spirit, Alive, Black Hole Sun, just to name a few of their biggest hits, are all hard rock songs. 

I just disagreed with your previous comment that punk and alt-rock killed off hard rock because that's simply not true. 

I never said punk or alt-rock killed hard rock, and you're wrong about Nirvana considering themselves Hard Rock, they despised everything that HR standed for at the time.

Now, telling me just because a band makes music with guitar with a lot of distortion and loun drums it's considered hard rock, sounds kind of naive, childish and almost that you don't understand shit about rock genres.

Are Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson, Ministry, The Prodigy, hard rock? Well they make music with guitars with a lot of distortion and loud drums. What a joke!

[EvanG]

14 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I never said punk or alt-rock killed hard rock, and you're wrong about Nirvana considering themselves Hard Rock, they despised everything that HR standed for at the time.

Now, telling me just because a band makes music with guitar with a lot of distortion and loun drums it's considered hard rock, sounds kind of naive, childish and almost that you don't understand shit about rock genres.

Are Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson, Ministry, The Prodigy, hard rock? Well they make music with guitars with a lot of distortion and loud drums. What a joke!

Huh? I never said you said that punk or alt-rock killed hard rock. The other poster said it who I also quoted.

You're wrong. You seem to confuse image with genre here. A lot of rock bands from the 90's didn't want to be compared to the hard rock bands from the 80's because they couldn't relate to the big hair, make-up, spandex pants and cheesy videos on MTV. But they loved to be named in the same sentence as the hard rock acts from the late 60's and 70's, which they were influenced by. Again, I've heard Kurt refer to Nirvana's music as hard rock, as well as punk and several other sub-rock genres, many times. Unfortunately I can't post youtube videos here, but I'm sure you can find it yourself. So what you say is simply not true. They didn't like the antics of some of the 80's hard rock bands, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider their own music hard rock, among other sub-rock genres.

To specify the three songs I mentioned in previous post. They're not punk songs. They're not metal songs. They're not pop songs, although one could argue that the vocal melodies are poppy, especially Teen Spirit. They're not soft rock songs either, so yeah... what else to call them but hard rock songs? 

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Huh? I never said you said that punk or alt-rock killed hard rock. The other poster said it who I also quoted.

You're wrong. You seem to confuse image with genre here. A lot of rock bands from the 90's didn't want to be compared to the hard rock bands from the 80's because they couldn't relate to the big hair, make-up, spandex pants and cheesy videos on MTV. But they loved to be named in the same sentence as the hard rock acts from the late 60's and 70's, which they were influenced by. Again, I've heard Kurt refer to Nirvana's music as hard rock, as well as punk and several other sub-rock genres, many times. Unfortunately I can't post youtube videos here, but I'm sure you can find it yourself. So what you say is simply not true. They didn't like the antics of some of the 80's hard rock bands, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider their own music hard rock, among other sub-rock genres.

To specify the three songs I mentioned in previous post. They're not punk songs. They're not metal songs. They're not pop songs, although one could argue that the vocal melodies are poppy, especially Teen Spirit. They're not soft rock songs either, so yeah... what else to call them but hard rock songs? 

I think that some fans of old school 60'a 70's and 80's hard rock have this very rigid definition of what it's supposed to sound like. I say this cause I've stumbled upon comments like this specifically about Nirvana. Maybe the amount of punk in their music and the fact that there are more than 1 elements in their music taken from similar but different sub genres make Nirvana and other bands seem like it's not pure hard rock enough to be hard rock. 

like he can't even solo like Jimmy Page. One clue that maybe helps is that Dave Grohl was the drummer of that band. 

besides, punk shares some shit with metal which is similar to hard rock in some ways. Are Load and Reload by Metallica are trash metal records for example? I feel like Hard Rock and Metal are the umbrella definitions of many different genres.

[Legendador]

13 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Huh? I never said you said that punk or alt-rock killed hard rock. The other poster said it who I also quoted.

You're wrong. You seem to confuse image with genre here. A lot of rock bands from the 90's didn't want to be compared to the hard rock bands from the 80's because they couldn't relate to the big hair, make-up, spandex pants and cheesy videos on MTV. But they loved to be named in the same sentence as the hard rock acts from the late 60's and 70's, which they were influenced by. Again, I've heard Kurt refer to Nirvana's music as hard rock, as well as punk and several other sub-rock genres, many times. Unfortunately I can't post youtube videos here, but I'm sure you can find it yourself. So what you say is simply not true. They didn't like the antics of some of the 80's hard rock bands, but that doesn't mean they didn't consider their own music hard rock, among other sub-rock genres.

To specify the three songs I mentioned in previous post. They're not punk songs. They're not metal songs. They're not pop songs, although one could argue that the vocal melodies are poppy, especially Teen Spirit. They're not soft rock songs either, so yeah... what else to call them but hard rock songs? 

"I just disagreed with your previous comment that punk and alt-rock killed off hard rock because that's simply not true. "

2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think that some fans of old school 60'a 70's and 80's hard rock have this very rigid definition of what it's supposed to sound like. I say this cause I've stumbled upon comments like this specifically about Nirvana. Maybe the amount of punk in their music and the fact that there are more than 1 elements in their music taken from similar but different sub genres make Nirvana and other bands seem like it's not pure hard rock enough to be hard rock. 

like he can't even solo like Jimmy Page. One clue that maybe helps is that Dave Grohl was the drummer of that band. 

besides, punk shares some shit with metal which is similar to hard rock in some ways. Are Load and Reload by Metallica are trash metal records for example? I feel like Hard Rock and Metal are the umbrella definitions of many different genres.

You nailed it!

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Legendador said:

"I just disagreed with your previous comment that punk and alt-rock killed off hard rock because that's simply not true. "

You nailed it!

Yes, GnRpersia said that on the previous page and I quoted him/her, it wasn't a reference to you. Do you understand how forums work?

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think that some fans of old school 60'a 70's and 80's hard rock have this very rigid definition of what it's supposed to sound like. I say this cause I've stumbled upon comments like this specifically about Nirvana. Maybe the amount of punk in their music and the fact that there are more than 1 elements in their music taken from similar but different sub genres make Nirvana and other bands seem like it's not pure hard rock enough to be hard rock. 

like he can't even solo like Jimmy Page. One clue that maybe helps is that Dave Grohl was the drummer of that band. 

besides, punk shares some shit with metal which is similar to hard rock in some ways. Are Load and Reload by Metallica are trash metal records for example? I feel like Hard Rock and Metal are the umbrella definitions of many different genres.

Oh agree with the last part. A lot of the 90's bands, but also 80's bands, had many different influences, and one song could be more metal and another one more punk. GnR is considered a hard rock band, right? I don't think anyone would disagree on here. But they have metal, pop and punk influences in their music as well. Just like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. So why is it not okay to label their music as hard rock? I don't get it. Just because hard rock got a bad rep by the 90's because of those make-up dudes in the 80's with the naked girls in their videos?

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Oh agree with the last part. A lot of the 90's bands, but also 80's bands, had many different influences, and one song could be more metal and another one more punk. GnR is considered a hard rock band, right? I don't think anyone would disagree on here. But they have metal, pop and punk influences in their music as well. Just like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. So why is it not okay to label their music as hard rock? I don't get it. Just because hard rock got a bad rep by the 90's because of those make-up dudes in the 80's with the naked girls in their videos?

I think that some fans of music identify with what they like and getting the sub genre "wrong" is a big no no.

Like if somehow cheapens "real hard rock" in some way if you lump it together with something that doesn't contain traditional elements in the music or enough of it so it's like... not hard enough to be accepted or you know... they just don't like a particular band cause it's not as technically complex as what they're used to from their chosen hard rock bands but Nirvana wasn't really just punk or pure punk for me, so I think it's also correct to call it hard rock. That, or I'm over thinking it, and it's 80's make-up dudes and the naked girls.

[EvanG]

Just now, Rovim said:

I think that some fans of music identify with what they like and getting the sub genre "wrong" is a big no no.

Like if somehow cheapens "real hard rock" in some way if you lump it together with something that doesn't contain traditional elements in the music or enough of it so it's like... not hard enough to be accepted or you know... they just don't like a particular band cause it's not as technically complex as what they're used to from their chosen hard rock bands but Nirvana wasn't really just punk or pure punk for me, so I think it's also correct to call it hard rock. That, or I'm over thinking it, and it's 80's make-up dudes and the naked girls.

I think the Nirvana community is that way especially. They still hate GnR because of Axl and everything their god Kurt was against. I'm a big Nirvana fan, but their community is pretty weird and condescending at times. For me it's simple. Nirvana have a lot of songs that fit within the hard rock genre, as they also had punk songs, and especially on Bleach, songs with a lot of metal influences. It can go together, so calling them hard rock, as they did themselves, shouldn't get people's panties in a twist so much.

[D4NNY]

This thread has gone crazy and completely off topic 😅

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, Legendador said:

You've named a one band, one single band that's not mainstream, and it will never be, there's no room for this type of music to go mainstream outside the music industry.

For the young people going to see kiss, motley, gnr is clearly what makes them go see Metallica (Stranger Things - Master of Puppets), it's just the 80s hype that Miley Cirus and ST brought back. It is not solid.

I really don't know, listening to better, or madagascar, it should be left in the end of the 90s.

🤷‍♂️ You asked me to name one band 😄

Also they are mainstream, millions of streams and a Grammy nomination. Not  household name, but that isn't necessarily the be all with being mainstream

[troccoli]

http://www.troccolitm.com/VHSLiveEraSpain.html

http://www.troccolitm.com/vhsliverapro.html?1185673881734

http://www.troccolitm.com/VidISEPro.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x10gHWH8K8&t=17s
 

 

[Amir]

1 hour ago, troccoli said:

http://www.troccolitm.com/VHSLiveEraSpain.html

 

Are the first four just the regular music videos, followed by the Live Era WTTJ video?:

[TheSlashrose]

With the release of the Jungle video from Live Era, I remember that at the time there were rumors that the band was back active, this video is on YouTube 

Edited February 9, 2023 by TheSlashrose

[D4NNY]

3 hours ago, troccoli said:

http://www.troccolitm.com/VHSLiveEraSpain.html

http://www.troccolitm.com/vhsliverapro.html?1185673881734

http://www.troccolitm.com/VidISEPro.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x10gHWH8K8&t=17s
 

 

That’s a nice rare item! I’m assuming the other videos (DC, Yesterdays, Estranged, and NR) are just live from Tokyo ‘92?  
 

Edit: Yesterdays wasn’t performed at Tokyo, whoops! Video from Las Vegas ‘92 then? 🤔

Edited February 9, 2023 by DustNBones1990

[Bitchisback]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:43 AM, Legendador said:

 

But Maneskin is generic pop and it's a Label forcing it to the mainstream. They don't have solid, classic songs and I can't see thgem lasting Ten Years with all this success. This band is so fabricated.

MGK and PM are great, but they never be hard rock.

I wouldn't call Måneskin generic pop at all.  I mean I don't love them, but I think what they are doing is really cool.   The problem with rock today is there is so much gatekeeping.  It's like every time a new band comes out all rock fans do is shit on them lol. I mean how long can we go on with Tool, Korn, Avenged Sevenfold, RHCP, Kiss, GnR headlining every music festival. When was the last time you saw a music festival with a modern rock band as a headliner or even at the top of the bill?  Rock fans simply do not want to give newer bands a shot.  And when new bands come out it's always "they aren't a real rock band" " they are manufactured by their label" "they are pop" etc. etc. etc.

 

I mean look at Greta Van Fleet, everyone just dismisses them as a Zep rip off and won't even give them a chance. But they actually are a talented group of musicians and have some decent songs.  But the gatekeepers of rock won't let anyone into the inner circle and that is what is killing the gerne.  Why would a label push a band when the target audience is generally unwilling to accept anything new?

 

And yes all popular bands are pushed by their label and are pop.  Sweet Child O Mine is a pop rock song, and GnR"s image was forced by the label with all this "most dangerous band in the world" stuff too.  

 

There is some really good rock out there, much better than Måneskin or Greta Van Fleet, but until people embrace something new the gerne isn't going to evolve or grow unfortunately.

[Rovim]

11 minutes ago, Bitchisback said:

I wouldn't call Måneskin generic pop at all.  I mean I don't love them, but I think what they are doing is really cool.   The problem with rock today is there is so much gatekeeping.  It's like every time a new band comes out all rock fans do is shit on them lol. I mean how long can we go on with Tool, Korn, Avenged Sevenfold, RHCP, Kiss, GnR headlining every music festival. When was the last time you saw a music festival with a modern rock band as a headliner or even at the top of the bill?  Rock fans simply do not want to give newer bands a shot.  And when new bands come out it's always "they aren't a real rock band" " they are manufactured by their label" "they are pop" etc. etc. etc.

 

I mean look at Greta Van Fleet, everyone just dismisses them as a Zep rip off and won't even give them a chance. But they actually are a talented group of musicians and have some decent songs.  But the gatekeepers of rock won't let anyone into the inner circle and that is what is killing the gerne.  Why would a label push a band when the target audience is generally unwilling to accept anything new?

 

And yes all popular bands are pushed by their label and are pop.  Sweet Child O Mine is a pop rock song, and GnR"s image was forced by the label with all this "most dangerous band in the world" stuff too.  

 

There is some really good rock out there, much better than Måneskin or Greta Van Fleet, but until people embrace something new the gerne isn't going to evolve or grow unfortunately.

with respect, I don't agree with this. rock fans, hard rock fans are not stupid and they don't need to remember how great the huge bands in the genre were. It's all there to listen to, a click away.

and I think that people do give it a chance when a band gets noticed and sometimes it's not the real deal. Ghost has been very successful for example, I have no interest in that band, but it proves that shit can still blow up if you have something that people can relate to, music listeners in this case.

not many truly great bands in the specific genre of hard rock imho in recent years. A lot of good music, but not really a band that kinda bridged the gap between the old and the new, at least not a band which I'm aware of. 

in Metal, it's better I think, there is quality shit, but new classic hard rock seems stale with a few exceptions.

Maneskin is alright, but the standard, at least my personal standard based on what we got when hard rock was peaking imo, is very high. Greta Van Fleet and other retro bands seems to not have the ambition to truly move forward and are content with staying in the realm of the tried and true formulas. That's not what it could be again imo. Maybe in the future. I'm optimistic.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

That's the big problem rock is facing. Once the real big bands are gone, the landscape will be pretty thin. Especially when you then look at who will be headlining the big festivals. There'll always be good bands on the smaller stages, but stadium rock as we know it will probably die some day. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Stay.Of.Execution

[Legendador]

9 hours ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

That's the big problem rock is facing. Once the real big bands are gone, the landscape will be pretty thin. Especially when you then look at who will be headlining the big festivals. There'll always be good bands on the smaller stages, but stadium rock as we know it will probably die some day. 

There will always be holographic and IA concerts! LOL

[mystery]

17 hours ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

That's the big problem rock is facing. Once the real big bands are gone, the landscape will be pretty thin. Especially when you then look at who will be headlining the big festivals. There'll always be good bands on the smaller stages, but stadium rock as we know it will probably die some day. 

Imo one of the problems facing rock music is that it doesn't seem to be connected nearly as much to its own subculture as it was during its heyday. Hip-hop, pop, and EDM music have distinct cultures behind them that include slang, fashion, and fusions of other genres that keep changing and evolving but I don't see that with rock music.

The allure of rock was also the lifestyle of these bands that were rebellious and outside the norms of society. Bands absolutely can't do the things a Guns N' Roses or a Rolling Stones were doing in the 70's and 80's. Even if there is good rock music these days the bands that make them are relative saints compared to past bands and don't have that intrigue behind them.

[Rovim]

5 hours ago, mystery said:

Imo one of the problems facing rock music is that it doesn't seem to be connected nearly as much to its own subculture as it was during its heyday. Hip-hop, pop, and EDM music have distinct cultures behind them that include slang, fashion, and fusions of other genres that keep changing and evolving but I don't see that with rock music.

The allure of rock was also the lifestyle of these bands that were rebellious and outside the norms of society. Bands absolutely can't do the things a Guns N' Roses or a Rolling Stones were doing in the 70's and 80's. Even if there is good rock music these days the bands that make them are relative saints compared to past bands and don't have that intrigue behind them.

I think Duff joked about that in the joint Axl-Duff Brazilian interview (cool interview) where he talked about how kids nowdays, younger fans still go to small club shows and there is an underground scene but they, like, take an Uber there lol.

it's interesting, I think every era, every generation and its own culture. It can't be and I believe it shouldn't be like it was "back in the day"

part of the charm of the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's for example, is the more chaotic nature of the different scenes of music fans, but it's also a by product of less awareness and a less evolved society which makes sense imo cause the more time passes, the more experienced society gets, and the music and culture reflects that.

having said that, it may be a romantic notion but I believe what Neil Young said about how rock n' roll can never die, not really, at least the spirit of it.

the cost of social media and having the ability to know a lot more about the bands you're into and communicate with others about music and even the artists themselves without the need of waiting for even a little piece of info about what the band is going to do next is less mystery.

it's just a much more connected world, it can't be what it was cause life moves forward.

the lifestyle of old bands was dictated by the life they lived which was different to how it is now so for the most part it's more tamed. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Rovim

[mystery]

Watching the video is interesting because its mainly riot footage mixed with clips of the UYI tour. Whats hilarious is they put in clips of the St. Louis riot including Axl jumping into the crowd, slamming his mic, and taking a swing at the guy in the crowd. 

[Dacroix]

I was 12 years old. Remember watching MTV and suddenly the planet Earth rolling appears and then I listen Axl's scream. Didn't understand what the hell was going on.