All Elite Wrestling (AEW) has licensed November Rain to promote their upcoming Pay Per View "Full Gear"

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Gunner55 said:

Oh shit, if "Mox seizes the Superstation" was any indication... 

This video if it's a recreation of the original will involve Jericho cosplaying as Axl, i'm calling it now.

[prez]

I like AEW well enough and I thought the ECW "November Rain" video was really cool in '95 but Heyman sure wasn't paying to use it. Dropping six figures so you can do a music video is a really odd choice, but one in line with what Tony's been doing for a while.

[Gunner55]

8 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

This video if it's a recreation of the original will involve Jericho cosplaying as Axl, i'm calling it now.

Oh God no. I'm from Winnipeg. Jericho was a god here. I can't stand him anymore haha. 

I live in the neighborhood Kenny Omega grew up in. It's entirely possible I watched that guy wrestle in gyms when I was 12 and he was just getting his start. If only I knew at the time lol

[tboneman]

10 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

This video if it's a recreation of the original will involve Jericho cosplaying as Axl, i'm calling it now.

And Tony himself going through the wedding cake. 

[Subtle Signs]

 

The video is up now 

Edited November 17 by Subtle Signs

[t-p-d-a]

The song Chinese Democracy was the official theme song for WWE Armageddon 2008 and WWE promoted the album in prevorious shows. The song was cut (overdupped) on the DVD/BR Version and later on WWE Network.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Subtle Signs said:

 

The video is up now 

I made it about half way through. what a intense waste of money lol. If this is the direction they are going in after this 'reset' & this is indicative of Moxleys vision, then my choice to stop watching ages ago was right. It's just a vanity project. 

[tboneman]

1 hour ago, Rindmelon said:

I made it about half way through. what a intense waste of money lol. If this is the direction they are going in after this 'reset' & this is indicative of Moxleys vision, then my choice to stop watching ages ago was right. It's just a vanity project. 

Yeah and what was that editing? Didn't really even fit with the song. Well easy money for Axl lol. 

[gunsnchalupas]

You guys are all being worked by Cornette, that's the hilarious part. 

He is a fantastic wrestling historian who you can learn a lot from, but he is wildly out of touch with wrestling past the year 1995. Go back and watch his run as head booker for ROH. How long ago was that? Almost 20 years ago. It's a common trope in wrestling that elderly people clutch to the rules of what worked in their previous generation, while denigrating the new guys. Ric Flair, Harley Race, even Edward Carpentier had their detractors. 

It's hilarious to read Youtube comments where people parrot his dogma, not realizing that his entire game is to weaponize the tribalism to make that sweet ad revenue. Which doesn't mean he doesn't believe some version of what he says, but he is obviously "turning it up to 11".

I say that as someone who aspects of AEW's in-ring style appeals to, but I have stopped watching regularly because I think the product is far too inconsistent, and they lost the plot in terms of angles and attention to detail. So this isn't an AEW-defense post.

Wrestling is like music, there are different genres and types of wrestling that appeal to different markets. Some markets are larger, some are more niche, some are geographical. 

[gunsnchalupas]

6 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

I made it about half way through. what a intense waste of money lol. If this is the direction they are going in after this 'reset' & this is indicative of Moxleys vision, then my choice to stop watching ages ago was right. It's just a vanity project. 

The Moxley stuff is a rehash of a rehash. They keep going to proto-invasion angles but do half-assed jobs of them. There is very poor attention to detail with their overall story telling. They just finished a takeover/invasion type angle with the Young Bucks.

Hangman was their hottest heel coming off of the win against Swerve. I get that Bryan apparently wanted Moxley to be the one to end it, but it should have been Hangman. He's relatively fresh as a heel since he has been a face for the majority of his run, and he just came off of the biggest possible win they could give him, brutally beating Swerve. If the idea was for a heel to take Bryan out in his hometown, it should have been Hangman. There also would have been a very easy story to craft because so much of the Swerve/Hangman stuff has alluded to Hangman's life as a family man, and you have Bryan questionably allowing his daughter to be front row to watch him get violently assaulted by Swerve at Wembley. So there would be a twisted motivation for Hangman if they presented him as a dangerous heel who has finally lost it. He is justified in ending Bryan, because he himself would never put his daughter in the position that Bryan put his own in. They could play off that but twist it in an over the top heel sort of way, where the heel has an element of truth to work with, but the level they take it to is what gets them the heat. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

You guys are all being worked by Cornette, that's the hilarious part. 

He is a fantastic wrestling historian who you can learn a lot from, but he is wildly out of touch with wrestling past the year 1995. Go back and watch his run as head booker for ROH. How long ago was that? Almost 20 years ago. It's a common trope in wrestling that elderly people clutch to the rules of what worked in their previous generation, while denigrating the new guys. Ric Flair, Harley Race, even Edward Carpentier had their detractors. 

It's hilarious to read Youtube comments where people parrot his dogma, not realizing that his entire game is to weaponize the tribalism to make that sweet ad revenue. Which doesn't mean he doesn't believe some version of what he says, but he is obviously "turning it up to 11".

I say that as someone who aspects of AEW's in-ring style appeals to, but I have stopped watching regularly because I think the product is far too inconsistent, and they lost the plot in terms of angles and attention to detail. So this isn't an AEW-defense post.

Wrestling is like music, there are different genres and types of wrestling that appeal to different markets. Some markets are larger, some are more niche, some are geographical. 

I'm not being worked I just don't happen to like the product outside of certain stand alone matches

[gunsnchalupas]

Just now, Rindmelon said:

I'm not being worked I just don't happen to like the product outside of certain stand alone matches

 

You know the kind of internet fan I am talking about though? Don't you. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

The Moxley stuff is a rehash of a rehash. They keep going to proto-invasion angles but do half-assed jobs of them. There is very poor attention to detail with their overall story telling. They just finished a takeover/invasion type angle with the Young Bucks.

Hangman was their hottest heel coming off of the win against Swerve. I get that Bryan apparently wanted Moxley to be the one to end it, but it should have been Hangman. He's relatively fresh as a heel since he has been a face for the majority of his run, and he just came off of the biggest possible win they could give him, brutally beating Swerve. If the idea was for a heel to take Bryan out in his hometown, it should have been Hangman. There also would have been a very easy story to craft because so much of the Swerve/Hangman stuff has alluded to Hangman's life as a family man, and you have Bryan questionably allowing his daughter to be front row to watch him get violently assaulted by Swerve at Wembley. So there would be a twisted motivation for Hangman if they presented him as a dangerous heel who has finally lost it. He is justified in ending Bryan, because he himself would never put his daughter in the position that Bryan put his own in. They could play off that but twist it in an over the top heel sort of way, where the heel has an element of truth to work with, but the level they take it to is what gets them the heat. 

I think people feel the invasion stuff is way over done in general. WWE dropped the ball with how they did the WCW one back in the day . Ironically WCW did it well when they brought Scott Hall and Nash in 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

You know the kind of internet fan I am talking about though? Don't you. 

Oh yeah the fanbase for wrestling can be toxic as fuck, but so is the fanbase of bands like gn'r. Fans obviously is a derivation of the word fanatical & there is a lot of that for sure.

[gunsnchalupas]

On 11/15/2024 at 3:10 AM, prez said:

I like AEW well enough and I thought the ECW "November Rain" video was really cool in '95 but Heyman sure wasn't paying to use it. Dropping six figures so you can do a music video is a really odd choice, but one in line with what Tony's been doing for a while.

 

Granted, AEW is apparently profitable with the new TV deal, but it's death of WCW tier stuff to be dropping big money in this way when the product is ice cold. Granted, it's a marketing expense, but I think it's a massive miscalculation. This has 50k views in roughly a day, and who knows how many of those are third worlders (Randy Orton fans) or bots. 

I appreciate the nod to the past, but I think Tony K (Khan) sometimes underestimates the connection or affinity that his greater fanbase has for some things that he holds dear. He ends up overvaluing marketing pieces like the ROH IP, when the reality is that while the core fanbase are more likely to crossover or be attached with the two big eras of ROH, those are the same people who left ROH and let it die when NXT and NJPW World both offered better products, and later when AEW came and killed all three of (that version of) NXT, NJPW, and ROH by offering a more accessible or better version of the kind of wrestling that appeals to that market. While there might be a very small number in the three or four figures of fans who really care about ROH, he failed to realize that ROH itself wasn't the reason why his core fanbase followed ROH (or NJPW, or NXT), it's the style of wrestling, which he was already presenting at the time he got the ROH IP, which made it pointless.

The ECW November Rain tribute is the same thing. Is it kind of cool, of course? Is it going to result in any additional interest in line with what the song likely cost? Probably not. 

3 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

Oh yeah the fanbase for wrestling can be toxic as fuck, but so is the fanbase of bands like gn'r. Fans obviously is a derivation of the word fanatical & there is a lot of that for sure.

 

I have always found the online GNR fanbase to be normal and well adjusted in their behaviours. 

[Ratam]

Look absurd a romantic song like NR associate with Wrestling.

[GnR Chris]

On 11/15/2024 at 2:10 AM, prez said:

I like AEW well enough and I thought the ECW "November Rain" video was really cool in '95 but Heyman sure wasn't paying to use it. Dropping six figures so you can do a music video is a really odd choice, but one in line with what Tony's been doing for a while.

Odd, sure. But as a GNR fan, I watched the entire AEW promo video just now. So the advertising worked, in that regard. I’m not a wrestling fan and still sat through it. 😂 They’re also playing off the nostalgia of ECW’s 1990s promos.

[gunsnchalupas]

2 hours ago, Ratam said:

Look absurd a romantic song like NR associate with Wrestling.

It is a homage to a cult wrestling promotion in the 90s using it for a video.

The promotion was called ECW. It was very sleazy with characters that were more appealing to (demented) adults or teens. This doesn't seem novel because that is the direction that wrestling went into with Steve Austin and such, but at the time it was the first mainstream American promotion to do that kind of stuff. The legacy of the promotion is similar to Appetite For Destruction, and how people say Appetite killed the cheesy hair metal groups. Actual mainstream wrestling at the time was marketed to children with things like Hulk Hogan fighting a Mummy, or Plumbers who wrestling. While ECW wasn't popular enough to kill those companies, it popularized the sleazy "Jerry Springer" style of wrestling storylines enough that it became apparent to both WWF and WCW that they should go in that direction.

While ECW did have some very good in ring wrestlers, it was more story and character driven. So a bombastic ballad like November Rain was perfectly fitting, even if it was out of line with the tone of the overall show since they usually used music like White Zombie. ECW never licensed or paid for the music. They were small enough at the time, and their owner Paul Heyman was a hustler who tried to get away with anything he could. Beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission, etc. He's the type of guy who probably could have gotten Chinese Democracy out in 1998 if he was involved. So that's why they were able to use November Rain, they didn't care to pay for it.

AEW is the second most popular promotion in the world. They were created about 5 years ago by the son of a billionaire, who is a wrestling super fan. At one point, it looked like they would overtake WWE (WWF) as the most popular promotion, but they lost a lot of momentum with the pandemic, inconsistent story telling, their top star leaving the promotion, and ironically Vince McMahon being ousted from WWE. Prior to AEW, WWE had an unprecedented level of market dominance in the American wrestling market with a monopoly on mainstream network/cable TV. So it didn't matter if his creative choices were poor, or he wasn't in touch with what his audience wanted, there was no real consequence to bad creative. That is part of what left an opening for a company like AEW to come in and gain marketshare. Vince leaving meant that WWE's creative improved, and along with AEW's quality heavily declining, WWE is far and away the #1 promotion, with AEW having almost no chance of catching up.

There is a lot of tribalism online. It's like some Marvel Civil War shit with WWE VS AEW and one side idolizing a guy named Jim Cornette who hates a guy named Dave Meltzer. It's like some team Slash VS team Axl stuff. Neither guy is involved with either promotion, but Twitter has decided that they are proxy's for each fanbase.

As far as that son of a billionaire who created AEW, he is a wrestling superfan who used to go to ECW shows as a young teenager. So he often does ridiculous things to appeal to other superfans, regardless of whether it makes any sense. Licensing November Rain is meant as a nod to the original ECW, but maybe a dozen people actually care, and those dozen people are probably already watching. So outside of an artistic defense, it doesn't make any sense from a business POV. 

[Subtle Signs]

11 hours ago, t-p-d-a said:

The song Chinese Democracy was the official theme song for WWE Armageddon 2008 and WWE promoted the album in prevorious shows. The song was cut (overdupped) on the DVD/BR Version and later on WWE Network.

 

I was at that ppv. That's me holding up the giant Shawn Michaels in the crowd. I'm sure WWE production loved that. 

[prez]

19 hours ago, t-p-d-a said:

The song Chinese Democracy was the official theme song for WWE Armageddon 2008 and WWE promoted the album in prevorious shows. The song was cut (overdupped) on the DVD/BR Version and later on WWE Network.

 

You can still hear the intro in the opening video package on the Peacock version. Whether that's an oversight by WWE or they have perpetual rights, I don't know.

[GNR 1991]

AEW November Rain promo was great, like the old ECW packages. So many haters on here lol

[Guest]

Not liking something = hate yeah. 

[metalavenger99]

LOVE this, there is 0 actual valid reasons to watch WWE in 2024 over AEW 🤮 but Oh, maybe I will try to give it another chance just to find out they are giving everything to Roman again for another 3/4s of a decade!

[Ratam]

9 hours ago, Shacklermyrye said:

Not liking something = hate yeah. 

Goodbye  Mickey❓

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Goodbye  Mickey❓

Rindmelon micky is gone. Elongated neck shacklermyrye is here