ghsqb Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Hi everyone, this is my first post here, I've been reading all this stuff for awhile, and there is a lot of emotion and stuff flying around.I don't know any more than most of you about what went down and why, but just take a look at the facts...Look at the section of mygnr.com that deals with the concert reviews.GNR has typically gone on stage about 10:45 - 11:00 in alot of these venues.I was at the Toronto concert and they were late getting on stage, and some people were restless, particulary given their history in Canada (Vancouver, the Montreal fiasco w/ Metallica...)But in the end they came on and they were worth the wait.Some of these fans in Philly deserve SOME of the blame for what happened.Now thats not to say it was all there fault, but just follow this through with me...and in the end you will most likely agree.I will focus on what we DO know and try to fill in the blanks...1. I think the whole band was there, and at some level intended to play.Why? In Vancouver, when Axl no showed, they did not even let fans into the building..which makes sense, if the headliner is not there, or not en route, you don't go ahead, or else you risk getting what you got in Mtl and St. Louis and Philly, people INSIDE your venue, trashing it (and in the case of Mtl, trying to burn it down)The rest of the band would have known where Axl was and this never would have gone as far as it did, if he was still in NYC....Furthermore, after the Vancouver incident, it was widely reported that in order to avoid any further hiccups in travel arrangements, Axl would travel with the rest of the band.Also, CKY reported a blurb on their website about Philly and I'm sure if it was a simple case of no show, they'd have mentioned it.On top of that, the one major thing that you have to remember is that this has been a PR nightmare for most everyone involved, from the venue, to the promoter to the band with fans poiting fingers and laying the blame, if it was simply a no show alot of people could wash their hands of it and simply say so.The other peculiar thing is the behaviour of the band itself...The tour got off to a rocky start, and some poor attendance figures at some early dates, but was definately picking up steam...a packed house in Toronto, a strong outing in Boston and a rousing success in NYC...then you believe Axl will pull a no show NOW??C'mon, he had packed houses waiting for him at the next stops, all he had to do was show up, get paid, built up the hype for the new album, the man is not going to spend all this time getting this band together, writing these songs, going on tour only to stop it when the momentum is at its greatest point..So if you add this all up, it adds to only one thing....The venue management and the promoter clearly had reason to believe the band was going to make good...otherwise you guys would have never been allowed inside the arena.The fact that Clear Channel took as long as it did to cancel the rest of the tour, (if it was a no show again, the decision would have been very easy to make AND to justify with a statemenent , which they have not done)The fact that the band itself has said absolutely nothing, guarranteed, if Axl no shows, you'd of had it confirmed by now, SOMEONE in the band would have had the word spread around directly or indirectly, to distance themselves from all this controversy.Very simple. There is a problem within the band. The band is there, venue management thinks theyre gonna play, promoter thinks theyre gonna play, hell band intends to play...then something happens......maybe there is some truth to the story about the confrontaion with security at the venue, maybe when it happens someone in the band says something to Axl he doesnt like and it falls apart there, maybe some in the band are being tired of being called simply a cover band for the old GNR.....the point is, thats the answer that makes the most sense given the events.This also explains the delay in CC cancelling the rest of the dates ofiicially, they wanted to take a few days to see if things would sort themselves out and if anything could be salvaged....This also explains why the band has not released a statement...if they were there, and didn't wanna go on stage due to rowdy fans, guarranteed they make a statement for a couple of reasons...1. To back up Mr. Rose and kill the rumors that he no showed, 2. To keep whatever fan interest and excitement they revived going, in order to keep any hopes of a tour and an album alive and soothe some pretty irate fans.The fact this didnt happen is proof enough that these guys aren't backing each other up, they aren't trying to salvage the tour, their album, their fans.....There is something that happened with the band, someone relapsed, someone snapped, either way I am so sorry for the fans in Philly and everywhere else that did not get a chance to experience the most amazing concert I have ever seen in my life...No matter if you are a fan of the old or the new, no denying these guys were a great group of musicians and they put on a graet show.This is really long and rambling, but I'd be interested in reading your comments, (if you could make it through this thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I think the fact that its about a week on and we still havent heard anything at all, means that theres no answer, or at least quick "that explains it" response...I mean look at vancouver.. Axl almost immediately explained (or told the press) how it was a delay in the flight...We now have no reason what so ever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tat2d1 Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 dude's probably right about there being a problem within the band. brain and buckethead were confirmed for that les claypool show before the GnR tour was ever cancelled. maybe once the new lineup all got on the road together they discovered that they don't get along. who knows? i wish axl&co would release some sort of statement, but i'm not holding my breath for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 .. 1. I think the whole band was there, and at some level intended to play...Actually that's not true. Axl was still in NYC. He never travelled to Philly with the rest of the band. The show started because the management co. and others thought they'd be able to get Axl there. When they realized they couldn't, the show was called off... .Furthermore, after the Vancouver incident, it was widely reported that in order to avoid any further hiccups in travel arrangements, Axl would travel with the rest of the band...The article in yesterday's LA Times tells a different story. I posted the link yesterday. It said .. "... Fan safety and mounting financial risk haunted the tour's key players, as did the erratic ways of Rose, who would pop in a different city than scheduled in the hours before some shows. "It was getting ridiculous," one official with the tour said... If Axl was travelling with the band, why would he be showing up in the wrong cities hours before the gigs? .. The fact that Clear Channel took as long as it did to cancel the rest of the tour, (if it was a no show again, the decision would have been very easy to make AND to justify with a statemenent , which they have not done)..I'm guessing there are a LOT of legal issues involved that preclude the band from speaking out. In that LA Times article, it mentioned a $1 million advance that Axl was given last year to secure the tour. Perhaps that's among the issues on the table right now. .. Very simple. There is a problem within the band...You could be right. No one knows exactly why Axl decided to stay in NYC that day or why Buckethead and Brain were booked to play someplace else on Jan. 3 even before this whole Philly fiasco went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 well its all one big conspiracyI just cant wait to hear the truth!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manstis1604 Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I think Axl no-showed (yes, don't kid yourselves, he did no-show) because he had some kind of breakdown, whether it was physical or mental is not known. I mean, everything was in their favor, 2 sold out shows in a row, a great new band, increasingly good performances, a huge album to promote...and Axl just had some kind of problem. He's been pretty harshly criticised, and rightfully so, but I don't think he's truly a jerk and wants to disappoint everyone who was going to see them. He defintely has mental issues, and I guess it's hard to judge him since we don't know what's going on in that screwed up mind of his. I heard he's on the verge of or has already checked into a psychiatric ward, so hopefully he can get over these demons once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 well obviously he doesn't mean to do these things...but i think what we mainly want to know is why he does these thigns.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RECKLESS Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 ghsqb,You do bring up some interesting points , but I can tell you why there has been nothing said with one word....LIABILITY. I can assure you that Clear Chode will try to bring a lawsuit against Guns and if Guns were to say anything it would dammage their defense. Clear Channel and the venues lost millions in this cancellation and there will be many lawsuits. It's always best to say nothing in this situation and I'm sure Mr. Rose would like to address it , but he can't right now. If he has learned anything over the years he would definitely have learned about how to handle lawsuits. I know he's not someone to hold back what he wants to say , but when it comes to a large corp. trying to file suit for millions in damages against you that may change the way you handle things.Hopefully we can get this settled quickly , but its doubtful. I just want the f#cking tour dammit!!!!SIN CITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 yeah.. Thats a good point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COKE8 Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 ghsqb,You do bring up some interesting points , but I can tell you why there has been nothing said with one word....LIABILITY. I can assure you that Clear Chode will try to bring a lawsuit against Guns and if Guns were to say anything it would dammage their defense. Clear Channel and the venues lost millions in this cancellation and there will be many lawsuits. It's always best to say nothing in this situation and I'm sure Mr. Rose would like to address it , but he can't right now. If he has learned anything over the years he would definitely have learned about how to handle lawsuits. I know he's not someone to hold back what he wants to say , but when it comes to a large corp. trying to file suit for millions in damages against you that may change the way you handle things.Hopefully we can get this settled quickly , but its doubtful. I just want the f#cking tour dammit!!!!SIN CITYRIGHT ON BRO.. F U C K ALL DA BULLSHIT WE JUST WANT DA TOUR...FU C K IN' LAWYERS..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 yeah,...but unfortunately they run the woprld! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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