The Ramones, Green Day, and so called "Pop-Punk"

[Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789]

I've been getting more interested in The Ramones, and in listening to and reading about them it's clear that they were heavily influenced by pop, girl groups, 50's rock n' roll etc. So why is it that when bands like Green Day started appearing we began to call their style "pop-punk"? Wasn't pop always a big part of punk? I mean The Ramones are the disputed creators of it. So on "Dookie" Green Day lyrics refer to drug exploration and dating and numerous teenagisms, but this subject matter was the trademark of The Ramones decades earlier as well. Calling Green Day or anyone else "Pop-Punk" is like calling Metallica "Rock-Metal", Punk was derived from Pop anyway. And it makes it seem as if there was no punk before the hardcore bands of the 80's (Black Flag, Dead Kennedy's). Sometimes if you really think about things you realize how stupid genres and labels are.

[nunchuck]

I've been getting more interested in The Ramones, and in listening to and reading about them it's clear that they were heavily influenced by pop, girl groups, 50's rock n' roll etc. So why is it that when bands like Green Day started appearing we began to call their style "pop-punk"? Wasn't pop always a big part of punk? I mean The Ramones are the disputed creators of it. So on "Dookie" Green Day lyrics refer to drug exploration and dating and numerous teenagisms, but this subject matter was the trademark of The Ramones decades earlier as well. Calling Green Day or anyone else "Pop-Punk" is like calling Metallica "Rock-Metal", Punk was derived from Pop anyway. And it makes it seem as if there was no punk before the hardcore bands of the 80's (Black Flag, Dead Kennedy's). Sometimes if you really think about things you realize how stupid genres and labels are.

Fuckin well said! about time someone made this point, i totally agree. Just listen to a band like The Buzzcocks, or The Dickies. There you have just a couple of examples of bands that don't get slated for being melodic, and the reason they don't is because they came out of the 70's. The label 'pop punk' is just a term that the assholes can use to slag Green Day off, lets face it its hardly a compliment is it? but the same people wont dare slag a band like The Ramones because they were rockin out before they were a fucking twinkle in their papa's trousers.

[mr-fukaji]

It's just a generic term for any type of punk that has simple melodies and harmonies etc, like the ramones, green day, MTX and all that, because of there being a larger 'pop' element to it rather than the verse/chorus structure.

[metallic ko]

Joey Ramone was influenced by girl groups, pop & 50 rock n roll. He wanted the Ramones to sound pop. But he also liked Motorhead, Alice Cooper & Iggy & the Stooges. Dee Dee Ramone loved Iggy & the Stooges, and he was the first member to use the name 'Ramone' as a last name. He got the name from Paul MaCartney who used the name Paul Ramone/Ramon to check into hotels while touring with the Beatles. (And yes, I am aware that half of you propably knew that, I was just pointing it out because of what is being discussed). Johnny Ramone loved the Beatles & Elvis and I think Tommy just basically all of what I just mentioned.

It really all depends of your opinion of who created punk. It most certainly was NOT the Sex Pistols. The Ramones literally invented the Sex Pistols. Iggy & the Stooges & the New York Dolls can be credited as creating punk.

Greenday are called 'pop punk' because they are not punk. They might have been influenced by punk music, but they are not a punk band. Punk started to evolve in the 60's then in 1980, it just died. I don't consider any band that has come out from 1980 - present to be punk. Post punk, sure, but not actually punk. I don't like Greenday, but I don't hate them. I just couldn't give a rats arse about them. I don't think they're pop punk, either.

[Wildrose]

Green Day are definately pop punk, not punk rock.

[Dachan]

the ramones were cool

green day can just go and die or sth similar

[sabre]

labels labels labels

death metal

black metal

thrash metal

heavy metal

nu metal

dad metal

hair metal

cant we just call it rock and roll?

[Desperado]

Ramones was Punk Rock and Green Day is Gay Punk

[kevdo242]

I still hate Green Day though.

I don't give a shit who argues with me, my mind won't be changed.

[Mama Kin]

Joey Ramone was influenced by girl groups, pop & 50 rock n roll. He wanted the Ramones to sound pop. But he also liked Motorhead, Alice Cooper & Iggy & the Stooges. Dee Dee Ramone loved Iggy & the Stooges, and he was the first member to use the name 'Ramone' as a last name. He got the name from Paul MaCartney who used the name Paul Ramone/Ramon to check into hotels while touring with the Beatles. (And yes, I am aware that half of you propably knew that, I was just pointing it out because of what is being discussed). Johnny Ramone loved the Beatles & Elvis and I think Tommy just basically all of what I just mentioned.

It really all depends of your opinion of who created punk. It most certainly was NOT the Sex Pistols. The Ramones literally invented the Sex Pistols. Iggy & the Stooges & the New York Dolls can be credited as creating punk.

Greenday are called 'pop punk' because they are not punk. They might have been influenced by punk music, but they are not a punk band. Punk started to evolve in the 60's then in 1980, it just died. I don't consider any band that has come out from 1980 - present to be punk. Post punk, sure, but not actually punk. I don't like Greenday, but I don't hate them. I just couldn't give a rats arse about them. I don't think they're pop punk, either.

^^^ Here is the correct answer. Well said renthispace

[Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789]

You are all missing the point, which is that most of the things you hate about Green Day (in their early days) were present in The Ramones music. And since we all seem to agree that The Ramones invented punk, to call Green Day "Pop-Punk" is incorrect. Atleast when Dookie came out, they were just plain Punk, they were really more traditionalists than anything else. So all of you who think The Ramones were "Punk", and Green Day are "Pop-Punk", explain that to me, excluding "American Idiot" which is pretty far from Punk entirely. What's the difference? I don't believe there is one.

[Devilgotchi]

It's all bullshit really, anything can be punk. It's all about doing what you want to baby!

As for who invented punk, I think the Kinks did or maybe the Beatles (five guys with quiffs with matching leather jackets, hyped on speed? Punk as F&%!).

[Maddergascar]

To be honest there are far worse pop-punk bands than greenday. Blink 182? Busted?

Really, Greenday are a great band. They've put out a great album full of catchy songs. They're really experimenting with their formula, and they're really fighting for something, which is what great punk needs. they deserve all the success they've had.

[Dannebac]

pop punk is just what you call a punk band that gets played on tv and sells a lot of records

Now if a "pop punk" band are super talented they will still get shit cause they are "sellouts"

and a punk band thats sucks but dont got any tv time will be considered a true punk band

it is fucking ridiculus and there is nothing anyone can do about it

[Rumin]

I don't care what something is called. I label things as "good" and "bad". Michael Jackson is pop and he is good. Dylan is folk and he is good. Johnny Cash is country and he is good. Kanye West is rap and he is good. Abondoning a good artist because of his/her label is stupid. That's why the people that say "rap sucks!" on here are the lowest morons around.

[johnezz]

I don't care what something is called. I label things as "good" and "bad". Michael Jackson is pop and he is good. Dylan is folk and he is good. Johnny Cash is country and he is good. Kanye West is rap and he is good. Abondoning a good artist because of his/her label is stupid. That's why the people that say "rap sucks!" on here are the lowest morons around.

Agreed 100% there mate, i heard on the radio a rapper who lyrics were absolutely amazing, quite Dylan-esque. Some of the best lyrics i've heard in a very long time. I forget his name, but i was blown away.

[nunchuck]

Ramones was Punk Rock and Green Day is Gay Punk

Oh fucking wow! post of the year or what?! quote gay punk unquote! i kid yer fucking not, if i ever have a band again, this is the label i want us to be stuck with. Its funny isnt it? homosexuality is still referred to as a stigma, we can use it as a diss. Well i'll take it up my fucking punk rock ass baby!. There is a band you should listen to, they're called Pansy Division and they sing punk rock songs about butt fucking. 'Ring Of Joy' is a song you should particularly enjoy.

[Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789]

Ramones was Punk Rock and Green Day is Gay Punk

Oh fucking wow! post of the year or what?! quote gay punk unquote! i kid yer fucking not, if i ever have a band again, this is the label i want us to be stuck with. Its funny isnt it? homosexuality is still referred to as a stigma, we can use it as a diss. Well i'll take it up my fucking punk rock ass baby!. There is a band you should listen to, they're called Pansy Division and they sing punk rock songs about butt fucking. 'Ring Of Joy' is a song you should particularly enjoy.

You know what, calling music gay, what the fuck does that mean anyway? Most of you who would say that are the first to say "OMFG FREDDIE MERCURY IS SO GREAT!!!!".

[mr-fukaji]

pop punk is just what you call a punk band that gets played on tv and sells a lot of records

no, you don't, the local scene around here and has a BILLION 'pop punk' bands going, none of whom have ever been on TV or radio, so i think you're egtting a bit ahead of yourself here.

since we all seem to agree that The Ramones invented punk

no point bothering arguing with who 'invented' punk but i'd disagree with this, punk can be traced back to a band like the stooges and the sonics, although i wouldnt say they were both strictly straight forward punk bands, guitar solos and that, bit more complicated than what came after it, watch some old stooges footage though and consider it was all in the late 60's/early 70's, and its pretty amazing.

Green Day are more or less a pop punk band, albeit one who got popular, vocal harmonies, pop melodies, verse/chorus pop structure, blah blah, its all easy enough to see.

[metallic ko]

You are all missing the point, which is that most of the things you hate about Green Day (in their early days) were present in The Ramones music. And since we all seem to agree that The Ramones invented punk, to call Green Day "Pop-Punk" is incorrect. Atleast when Dookie came out, they were just plain Punk, they were really more traditionalists than anything else. So all of you who think The Ramones were "Punk", and Green Day are "Pop-Punk", explain that to me, excluding "American Idiot" which is pretty far from Punk entirely. What's the difference? I don't believe there is one.

When the Ramones first came out, NO ONE sounded like them. The Ramones were the first band to play all their songs under 2 1/2 mintues with half the songs sounding the same. With the simple chords they played, the Ramones played VERY unique music.

When the Ramones came out, practically everyone wanted to be in a band because there were no limits. Some people actually thought they were a real gang. When the Ramones went to London in 1977 to play at the Roundhouse, Johnny Rotten actually thought that they were going to beat him up and kill him.

"There were no standards after the Ramones. All you had to do was be yourself and that gave me a lot of self esteem when I needed it, and cofidence" - Kirk Hammett.

"They [Ramones] deserve to be seen by many young people, because they're the Kings of Rock, as far as I'm concerned. The young people who think that, like, Green Day is punk rock need to hear the Ramones."(Ben Cameron (Soundgarden) Lollapalooza-96).

I have more quotes from other artists talking about the Ramones, including quotes from GNR. If you want them, I'll post them.

[Wildrose]

Dont see how you could compare the Ramones and Green Day.

[nunchuck]

You are all missing the point, which is that most of the things you hate about Green Day (in their early days) were present in The Ramones music. And since we all seem to agree that The Ramones invented punk, to call Green Day "Pop-Punk" is incorrect. Atleast when Dookie came out, they were just plain Punk, they were really more traditionalists than anything else. So all of you who think The Ramones were "Punk", and Green Day are "Pop-Punk", explain that to me, excluding "American Idiot" which is pretty far from Punk entirely. What's the difference? I don't believe there is one.

When the Ramones first came out, NO ONE sounded like them. The Ramones were the first band to play all their songs under 2 1/2 mintues with half the songs sounding the same. With the simple chords they played, the Ramones played VERY unique music.

When the Ramones came out, practically everyone wanted to be in a band because there were no limits. Some people actually thought they were a real gang. When the Ramones went to London in 1977 to play at the Roundhouse, Johnny Rotten actually thought that they were going to beat him up and kill him.

"There were no standards after the Ramones. All you had to do was be yourself and that gave me a lot of self esteem when I needed it, and cofidence" - Kirk Hammett.

"They [Ramones] deserve to be seen by many young people, because they're the Kings of Rock, as far as I'm concerned. The young people who think that, like, Green Day is punk rock need to hear the Ramones."(Ben Cameron (Soundgarden) Lollapalooza-96).

I have more quotes from other artists talking about the Ramones, including quotes from GNR. If you want them, I'll post them.

Nah, its fine thanks!

[metallic ko]

You are all missing the point, which is that most of the things you hate about Green Day (in their early days) were present in The Ramones music. And since we all seem to agree that The Ramones invented punk, to call Green Day "Pop-Punk" is incorrect. Atleast when Dookie came out, they were just plain Punk, they were really more traditionalists than anything else. So all of you who think The Ramones were "Punk", and Green Day are "Pop-Punk", explain that to me, excluding "American Idiot" which is pretty far from Punk entirely. What's the difference? I don't believe there is one.

When the Ramones first came out, NO ONE sounded like them. The Ramones were the first band to play all their songs under 2 1/2 mintues with half the songs sounding the same. With the simple chords they played, the Ramones played VERY unique music.

When the Ramones came out, practically everyone wanted to be in a band because there were no limits. Some people actually thought they were a real gang. When the Ramones went to London in 1977 to play at the Roundhouse, Johnny Rotten actually thought that they were going to beat him up and kill him.

"There were no standards after the Ramones. All you had to do was be yourself and that gave me a lot of self esteem when I needed it, and cofidence" - Kirk Hammett.

"They [Ramones] deserve to be seen by many young people, because they're the Kings of Rock, as far as I'm concerned. The young people who think that, like, Green Day is punk rock need to hear the Ramones."(Ben Cameron (Soundgarden) Lollapalooza-96).

I have more quotes from other artists talking about the Ramones, including quotes from GNR. If you want them, I'll post them.

Nah, its fine thanks!

I wasn't talking to you, but alright then.

Edited January 18, 2006 by renthispace

[3rd Wheel]

for some reason I can't sit at home and listen to The Ramones

i've always considered them to be IMO my least favvorite band...but i don't like punk rock....

I will give them credit for being THE Punk ROck Band IMO...there's some respect there

Maybe I will try again and listen to them, but the first time it wasn't very easy...

[Maddergascar]

The Ramones seem to be quite a fashionable name to drop at the moment. You even see people in the topman catalogue wearing ramones shirts (albeit pink ones), because they're popular enough that people have heard the name, but have a reputation for "never selling out, man" which seems to be more important than the music nowadays.