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Don't damn me!


troccoli

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Well, here we are yet again on the eve of the launch of a new tour and, quite possibly, a new album. And the level of bullsh*t has never been thicker. Yes, although I don't have one, presale passwords have been given out to GNR fans which is good. (Note: I AM a loyal fan, just never had time to deal with forums, etc. although I have wanted to - hence I did not subscribe to HTGTH, though I check it every day; decided to finally take time to post this in the forum). First, let's talk about the presale. How did asshol@s (aka ticket scalpers) get a hold of the password(s)? It's possible that one of them is a GNR fan and had always subscribed to HTGTH - but they would truly not be a big fan since they are now selling the password and also since they scalp tickets in general. Likely that a true fan was selling the password and a scalper bought it. But none of this really matters - what matters is why the need for a presale at all. Not really sure of the business need for one, but from a fan standpoint it's so that true fans can get tickets and not be burned by scalpers. But really, since most tickets are bought through the internet nowadays anyway, how do scalpers always and without fail get a hold of tickets (sometimes even top-notch tickets too)? This may sound nutty but there must be a conspiracy (read business deal here) between the scalpers and Ticketwhore. I know that before there was mention of a presale, right after I saw the post on HTGTH I checked eBay just for kicks. Sure enough 2 postings were already up (there are way more now), and each advertised that 16 seats were available. How can someone boast this claim unless they knew they were getting tickets? Part of the blame for all of this of course could fall on GNR themselves. Why play Hammerstein - why not a bigger venue, maybe even MSG? I know that they are warm-up shows, but you could still play somewhere bigger than Hammerstein (based on availability of course). Sure it would be great to see this band in such an intimate venue, but then you should have been a fan way back in the day and you would have been able to see that. I wasn't a huge fan in 86/87 (like most of us - admit it) because I hadn't yet heard the music (not until 1988). And I can live with the fact that I have to see the band in a stadium now. But my friends there is light at the end of the tunnel - there has been speculation about whether or not shows will be added (Tuesday and Thursday) and I have just received word from Lisa Schamis at Hammerstein that pending sellout (which is inevitable in NYC) these two nights will be added. Bottom line is that there needs to be some way to ensure (can't go based on honesty - need some kind of system) that fans get the best seats, not scalpers or corporations, etc.

Lastly, there's the album - will it be out or not? A lot of people seem to think that there's a great possibility it will not come out. Sure there's that possibility - there's a possibility the sun will not rise tomorrow but I wouldn't bet on it. A lot of people think this based on the fact that the 2002 tour came and went (the shows that were played anyway) without an album being released. I could be wrong here, but I don't remember GNR or their mgmt indicating that one would be. Lots of people think that just because a band is touring that an album must be out. Maybe the band just wanted to take a break from the studio, maybe they wanted to try out new songs (which they did), maybe mgmt wanted to make some $. Of course, this could be the same thing that's happening now but I don't think so. I think the reason that Axl is spending all this time in NY (the concerts at Hammerstein, the club appearances, the Sopranos thing) is that the album is being mastered in NYC (the last thing to do). But, only time will tell. Of course, why hasn't GNR or their mgmt posted anything on their official website? Two reasons I think - one, they're asshol@s, in true GNR fashion. The other reason I think is that they have unofficially adopted HTGTH as their website (kudos to Jarmo) now, hence no need to run the other site. Anyways, I say enough bitching about the presale at least. This has happened before (and with other bands) and will happen again (with other bands too) until someone single-handedly destroys Ticketwhore. Even that won't matter since another conglomerate will take over (Clear Channel likely). Any yes, the shit with EBay will still happen, because they don't care anymore either. Case in point: remember those 2 listings I told you about? They advertised a price of $250 each (at least - can't remember exactly) which is way above eBay’s own standards for scalping tickets for a NY show. EBay used to enforce this kind of thing, but ever since they became huge (and hence the $ involved became huge) they don't care. After all, they make more $ on a $250 ticket being auctioned than a $100 ticket.

Also (while I'm at it) the really fuck#d up thing about the presale is this (read closely and carefully): it does not guarantee you better seats than anyone else who gets a ticket. It would be nice at least if there was a section up close that you got into with the presale. You might argue true, but at least with the presale you can get a ticket. I say not true, as has already been discussed in the preceeding paragraphs. Something needs to change. I think that their needs to be a professionally run fan club similar to (and some of you are gonna hate me for this) the Metallica fan club. Regardless of what you want to say about Metallica the band, the fan club members get best seats (GA excluded - fan club members can still get GA but have to compete with others for position near stage). And you old-school GNR fans will like this - long time club members get better seats and are more likely to reap the fringe benefits (backstage passes, etc.). True, a scalper could become a member, but at least they'll have to pay the price for joining, and like I said, long-time members will still get better seats than the scalpers. Anyways, just my 2 cents. Would love to hear comments/concerns.

Edited by troccoli
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Troccoli, you make excellent points.

But the fact is - it's impossible to change Ticketmaster or ebay to get rid of ticket scalping. Pearl Jam tried -- desperately - and lost. It can't be done.

The only alternative is pre-sales.

I think there are ways to organize fan pre-sales to prevent the scalping though - such as selling directly to the fans on the forums -- fans who have been registered members of a fan forum for a certain period of time and have written posts showing their support over that period of time. Fan forums could compile a list, submit it to management and then offer the tickets directly to the fans on the list. Fans would then pick up the tickets at will-call with their ID on hand. This would prevent a scalper from re-selling a ticket -- since the ticket would require personal ID to pick up. Anyway - that's how I would do if I was organizing it. Just my 2 cents.

I hope they do add two more shows.

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Troccoli, you make excellent points.

But the fact is - it's impossible to change Ticketmaster or ebay to get rid of ticket scalping. Pearl Jam tried -- desperately - and lost. It can't be done.

The only alternative is pre-sales.

I think there are ways to organize fan pre-sales to prevent the scalping though - such as selling directly to the fans on the forums -- fans who have been registered members of a fan forum for a certain period of time and have written posts showing their support over that period of time. Fan forums could compile a list, submit it to management and then offer the tickets directly to the fans on the list. Fans would then pick up the tickets at will-call with their ID on hand. This would prevent a scalper from re-selling a ticket -- since the ticket would require personal ID to pick up. Anyway - that's how I would do if I was organizing it. Just my 2 cents.

I hope they do add two more shows.

great posts to the both of you!........Troccoli i really like your last paragraph , and madison i think thats a good idea, gnr camp should organize it! .................but whats the chance of it?.

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The part that confuses me about all this is that when talking to some people its as though the minute these shows were announced the rest of the tour ceased to exist. Fair enough if you live in or near New York, its the perfect oppertunity.

But I've spoken to, or read posts by, people from all over the world who are planning to go to absurd lengths to get there. Flying in from other countries, including ones they will be playing in later.

Why are these particular shows so important?

I don't have the password. I never even tried to get it because I never had any intention of trying to get to either of the NYC shows, I'm perfectly happy with my Download ticket. Does that mean I'm not a 'true fan'?

Anyway, the point of all this rambling is that if getting tickets to these shows is so difficult why not just get tickets to another one instead? (Again this doesn't apply to people for whom the NYC shows are the most convinient.)

Sure it would be great to see this band in such an intimate venue, but then you should have been a fan way back in the day and you would have been able to see that.

Just wanted to pick up on this one quickly: Remember that for a lot of us this simply wasn't an option.

I was born in 1985, in England. If there was any way I could have been at one of GNRs early club gigs I would have been, but its physically impossible.

IMO my age and location has absolutely no effect on how much I love the music, I don't consider myself any less of a fan than someone who is old enough to have seen the original band (and I know a few people who did see them who I'd say are less of a fan than me because they just went along because their friends were going, not because they were really into the band).

So saying that if you were a true fan you would have been at one of those gigs isn't really a logical argument.

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The part that confuses me about all this is that when talking to some people its as though the minute these shows were announced the rest of the tour ceased to exist. Fair enough if you live in or near New York, its the perfect oppertunity.

But I've spoken to, or read posts by, people from all over the world who are planning to go to absurd lengths to get there. Flying in from other countries, including ones they will be playing in later.

Why are these particular shows so important?..

Why? Because they're the first shows - and, more importantly, they're small venues. There's just nothing better than seeing a great band in a small intimate venue. Can't explain it. And it's unlikely we'll have the opportunity to see GNR in this type of a venue again.

There are also rumors they may shoot a vid at these shows, but these are just rumors at this point.

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The part that confuses me about all this is that when talking to some people its as though the minute these shows were announced the rest of the tour ceased to exist. Fair enough if you live in or near New York, its the perfect oppertunity.

But I've spoken to, or read posts by, people from all over the world who are planning to go to absurd lengths to get there. Flying in from other countries, including ones they will be playing in later.

Why are these particular shows so important?..

Why? Because they're the first shows - and, more importantly, they're small venues. There's just nothing better than seeing a great band in a small intimate venue. Can't explain it. And it's unlikely we'll have the opportunity to see GNR in this type of a venue again.

There are also rumors they may shoot a vid at these shows, but these are just rumors at this point.

Nicely worded Madison.........

looking forward to it also...........

KUDOS!

WC

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there's no way to stop scalpers or brokers- whatever you wanna call them.

i do like the idea of an official fan club, but if i'm gonna pay for a fan club there better be more benefits than just first crack at prime seats ( which means MORE money). There should be exclusive downloads and things of that nature.

i also think if they add 2 more warm up shows, they should be in Philly. Axl kinda owes them one.

Edited by tat2d1
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Troccoli, you make excellent points.

But the fact is - it's impossible to change Ticketmaster or ebay to get rid of ticket scalping. Pearl Jam tried -- desperately - and lost. It can't be done.

The only alternative is pre-sales.

I think there are ways to organize fan pre-sales to prevent the scalping though - such as selling directly to the fans on the forums -- fans who have been registered members of a fan forum for a certain period of time and have written posts showing their support over that period of time. Fan forums could compile a list, submit it to management and then offer the tickets directly to the fans on the list. Fans would then pick up the tickets at will-call with their ID on hand. This would prevent a scalper from re-selling a ticket -- since the ticket would require personal ID to pick up. Anyway - that's how I would do if I was organizing it. Just my 2 cents.

I hope they do add two more shows.

yea it would be a good idea, but a fan like me who has only recently joined and would want to go to a concert wouldnt be able to get tickets then, because people would not be sure if i was a scalper or not yet.. get what i am saying?

brisbane 4 life

V.

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