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Axl-The Catcher in the Rye


rockerman

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Who here has read the Catcher in the Rye? I can see where Axl relates to that. I see alot of it in his lyrics.

I reread it and see some very distinct themes and symbols in that book.

First of all the deep resistance by the protagonist to move into a larger reality and a self inflicted sense of aloneness. A complete inability to function at a sustained adult level. Wanting to act and feel and be an adult but not sure how to function completely at that level. embracing dysfunction and shutdown rather than living up to potential. A deep need to love and be loved but being completly confused by the notion. Antagonized by those who have his interest at heart and dismissed through thier human flaws.......Thats Holdens gig. The whole bizarre way that Holden both desires sex but is frightened by it at the same time. His reality is the only reality even though hes aware that his reality is fucked up he still refuses tomove beyond it. ........

In the book Holden Caulfield has a distinct dream job and that is to catch all of the innocent children falling off a cliff-- He mistakes the song coming through the Rye for "Catcher in the Rye" He desires to live in a place where nothing ever changes, nothing ever moves and everything stays the same.

Look at many of Axls lyrics. What are they about? Look at the drowning scenes in Estranged and Since I don't have you . The grave scene in Dont Cry.

Just a thought. I have been listening to Catcher in the Rye. Makes more sense to me now.

The red hunting hat?= Thats Holdens "people shooting hat"

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Who here has read the Catcher in the Rye? I can see where Axl relates to that. I see alot of it in his lyrics.

I reread it and see some very distinct themes and symbols in that book.

First of all the deep resistance by the protagonist to move into a larger reality and a self inflicted sense of aloneness. A complete inability to function at a sustained adult level. Wanting to act and feel and be an adult but not sure how to function completely at that level. embracing dysfunction and shutdown rather than living up to potential. A deep need to love and be loved but being completly confused by the notion. Antagonized by those who have his interest at heart and dismissed through thier human flaws.......Thats Holdens gig. The whole bizarre way that Holden both desires sex but is frightened by it at the same time. His reality is the only reality even though hes aware that his reality is fucked up he still refuses tomove beyond it. ........

In the book Holden Caulfield has a distinct dream job and that is to catch all of the innocent children falling off a cliff-- He mistakes the song coming through the Rye for "Catcher in the Rye" He desires to live in a place where nothing ever changes, nothing ever moves and everything stays the same.

Look at many of Axls lyrics. What are they about? Look at the drowning scenes in Estranged and Since I don't have you . The grave scene in Dont Cry.

Just a thought. I have been listening to Catcher in the Rye. Makes more sense to me now.

The red hunting hat?= Thats Holdens "people shooting hat"

Makes sense, thanks for that.

I have to think about that...

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Look at many of Axls lyrics. What are they about? Look at the drowning scenes in Estranged and Since I don't have you . The grave scene in Dont Cry.

Just a thought. I have been listening to Catcher in the Rye. Makes more sense to me now.

Possibly.

But I think its more that Axl's life seems to be a pity party to which no one is invited. He seems more content with isolating himself and complaining how rough life has been. Which, is pretty much a joke IMO because the guy is a jillionaire rock star.

I know, I know, money isn't everything. But Axl should be happier than he is given all that he's accomplished. He seems to prefer being pissed off and depressed.

I don't get it.

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Look at many of Axls lyrics. What are they about? Look at the drowning scenes in Estranged and Since I don't have you . The grave scene in Dont Cry.

Just a thought. I have been listening to Catcher in the Rye. Makes more sense to me now.

Possibly.

But I think its more that Axl's life seems to be a pity party to which no one is invited. He seems more content with isolating himself and complaining how rough life has been. Which, is pretty much a joke IMO because the guy is a jillionaire rock star.

I know, I know, money isn't everything. But Axl should be happier than he is given all that he's accomplished. He seems to prefer being pissed off and depressed.

I don't get it.

I agree with you on this one. Just as when you read Catcher in the Rye- Holden Caulfield is this rich indulged punk that has gone through a series of prep schools and has had access to influence and wealth. Most of us would do anything to have just a fraction of that kind of oppourtunity in life.... but in this book you see a self destructive punk who punks his chances away. If your like me reading this book you just want to beat the living shit out of this kid for allowing himself to be so fucked up. There are moments I relate to this kid just as I do Axls lyrics but there comes a time you either sink or swim.

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Guest JohnUlmer

The song is about John Lennon's death and Mark David Chapman. :blink:

Axl is more like J.D. Salinger IMO - the character of Holden is a bit similar but not quite the same.

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and no salinger i think wont let ppl make movies out of his books

Wow. That guy must be like an idiot. Do you know how much money he could make if it was a popular movie? Plus he'd be hanging with movie stars. Axl could contribute a song for the soundtrack.

if hes still alive i dont think money would matter seeing as the book was written in the 50's and the guy is probably going to die soon anyway lol

Edited by kaddisonmoore
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Guest JohnUlmer

and no salinger i think wont let ppl make movies out of his books

Wow. That guy must be like an idiot. Do you know how much money he could make if it was a popular movie? Plus he'd be hanging with movie stars. Axl could contribute a song for the soundtrack.

I don't think J.D. Salinger is interested in money.

He makes more money than you'll make in your lifetime annually just through sales of Catcher in the Rye. He hasn't published a single book since. He's been in solitude for about sixty years. He still writes but won't allow anyone to read or publish his work.

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Guest Ohdistortedsmile1789

After reading the book and hearing it again, my first thought was that it was a fucking disgrace. Holden is always complaining about things that are "fake" and such, this is overblown, sugar-coated Pop.

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The song is about John Lennon's death and Mark David Chapman. :blink:

Axl is more like J.D. Salinger IMO - the character of Holden is a bit similar but not quite the same.

I dont know what you all are talking about.

JohnUlmer is right.

the song is about Mark Chapman, who was obsessed by the book catcher in the Rye. he had a copy when he killed Lennon and after shooting him he just sat down and began reading.

the song is about Chapman and his deamons.

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Great critically based breakdown. We could do similar break downs on several of the new and old songs. I would love to see what other people take from songs like Coma, Better, Estranged, etc. Axl has issues like everybody else, but the way he is able to openly write about them (both melodically and vividly) is what makes his work timeless. It's easy to overlook how good his lyrics really are. Several of them are flat out master works. Put the stigmas aside a just read them from a poetic stand point. They speak for themselves.

Edited by hookset12
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The song is about John Lennon's death and Mark David Chapman. :blink:

Axl is more like J.D. Salinger IMO - the character of Holden is a bit similar but not quite the same.

I dont know what you all are talking about.

JohnUlmer is right.

the song is about Mark Chapman, who was obsessed by the book catcher in the Rye. he had a copy when he killed Lennon and after shooting him he just sat down and began reading.

the song is about Chapman and his deamons.

Wow I didn't know the song was about that but now that I think about it, it makes sense. By the way, anyone who hasn't read the book should definitely go read it. its great. one of my favorite books.

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This is where it gets very complicated. Many theorists see Catcher in the Rye by Salinger as a satire of adolescence. It's not just a straight description of a character as many people read the book. In many ways Salinger is lampooning the cliches of young angsty males (not only but also). The catcher in the rye is sort of Salinger's protector figure. He sees these hopeless lost souls and hopes they hear the song of the Catcher and they don't kill themselves or run away from home. It's a complex book with many ways to read it.

Many adolescent souls identify with the book but to understand it from the authors point of view is darker trip. Is Salinger Holden? Salinger is sort of saving himself in the book?

This reclusive attitude given in the book was sort of lived out by Salinger in real life. Seen Field of Dreams with Kevin Costner. He goes to meet an author who is very Salinger-like.

The recluse is the eternal adolescent. Or wants to be.

We now live in times which extend the adolscence to 35-40 even. People dream of ever lasting youth. Look at the Stones.

I don't think Axl is dealing with literal interpretations of the book but he is alluding to some of the themes from the book meaning something to him. I think he has handled it well because it's not specific enough. He has focused on the spirit in the field.

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This is where it gets very complicated. Many theorists see Catcher in the Rye by Salinger as a satire of adolescence. It's not just a straight description of a character as many people read the book. In many ways Salinger is lampooning the cliches of young angsty males (not only but also). The catcher in the rye is sort of Salinger's protector figure. He sees these hopeless lost souls and hopes they hear the song of the Catcher and they don't kill themselves or run away from home. It's a complex book with many ways to read it.

Many adolescent souls identify with the book but to understand it from the authors point of view is darker trip. Is Salinger Holden? Salinger is sort of saving himself in the book?

This reclusive attitude given in the book was sort of lived out by Salinger in real life. Seen Field of Dreams with Kevin Costner. He goes to meet an author who is very Salinger-like.

The recluse is the eternal adolescent. Or wants to be.

We now live in times which extend the adolscence to 35-40 even. People dream of ever lasting youth. Look at the Stones.

I don't think Axl is dealing with literal interpretations of the book but he is alluding to some of the themes from the book meaning something to him. I think he has handled it well because it's not specific enough. He has focused on the spirit in the field.

Great assessment especialy the extention of adolecence into 35-40. The recluse is the eternal adolescent.. interesting. I see that all the time in my generation. I also see a huge inability to cope with the external stresses that modern life entails.

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I think the song has very little to do with the book and more to do with the book's place in society. This thread is valid in a larger sense in regards to the comparison's between Axl and Salinger himself. One more person to bring into this discussion would be Bobby Fischer.

Axl, Salinger, Fischer were on the top of the world, and widely considered amound the best at their respective crafts. They all disappeared from the public eye, only releasing periodic statements, or were reported on with news of bizarre behavior. They all continued to work, without ever releasing material to the public. Salinger reportedly writes many short stories, Fischer created a new type of chess, Axl supposedly has dozen's of tracks. They all suffer from some sort of paranoia. The general public has a continued facaination with all three. They have been ingrained with popular culture due to the rejection of fame in an age when most people sell their souls for their fifteen minutes. All three have turned down millions of dollars in endorsements for their own reasons.

I am not glamorizing Axl, or the others, but they are compelling figures in American history over the last 40 years. Other people that could be added to this list are Brian Wilson and Bill Watterson.

This reclusive attitude given in the book was sort of lived out by Salinger in real life. Seen Field of Dreams with Kevin Costner. He goes to meet an author who is very Salinger-like.

You make interesting points, but I figured I would clarify one thing for anyone really interested in this discussion. In the novel "Shoeless Joe" written by W.P. Kinsella (the basis for Field of Dreams), the author specifically includes Salinger by name. There is a charactor in "Catcher in the Rye" with the last name Kinsella, and hence the connection mentioned in the movie. "Shoeless Joe" gives Salinger a fictional voice (and opinions) that Salinger did not authorize, and thus the character was changed in the movie to a generic '60's writer.

Edited by iodon
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