Nov. Rain should be taken out of the setlist

[SylvesterStallone]

point is people accept bumble and fortus. You seldom see bitching about them. Finck has polarized fans. A lot of people have problems with the way he plays. Check the polls, he just got smoked by fortus and bumble on both on this forum. He's a mediocre guitar player by account of most of the actual guitar players on this forum.

Just because people criticise him doesn't mean they are automatically a slashaholic. Maybe...just maybe...and this is just my humble opinion...they actually DONT LIKE HIS GUITAR WORK.

I have no problem with Buckethead, Ron Thal, and Fortus. Paul Huge and Finck on the other hand...

People that think Finck sucks dont have a clue. He is better than most other bands lead guitar player. But people cant seem to understand that. The only reason most people dont accept finck is because of when he was first in the band he had his goth look. Listen to his work on the demos, he sounds great esp his solos in TWAT.

That's interesting...I actually LIKED his goth look from '02. I think he sucks and I base that on being a huge fan of guitar heavy bands. I know what good guitar sounds like and shitty guitar sounds like. People know what they like dude, music after all is a personal thing.

His playing just doesn't cut it for me live. Studio wise, I think his better solo is great. So maybe he's a good songwriter but a mediocre live player is my opinion. I'm seeing gnr in 2 weeks and I guess i'll find out if I was right.

People don't want to hate Finck. We want the band to succeed. The fact that he's not winning fans over, even hardcore fans of the new band is telling enough that something is clearly wrong.

Finck owns. if you dont like him, you dont like guns n roses. he is a huge part of the amazing show the band puts on.

Nonsense. In this band, Axl = Guns N' Roses..

[quadlaser]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

it's simple really, you're thinking too much

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

now go ahead and pull the "it's not about speed or difficulty, it's about quality, i mean, have you heard 'better'?" card and we'll continue.

[Axls_Disillusion]

point is people accept bumble and fortus. You seldom see bitching about them. Finck has polarized fans. A lot of people have problems with the way he plays. Check the polls, he just got smoked by fortus and bumble on both on this forum. He's a mediocre guitar player by account of most of the actual guitar players on this forum.

Just because people criticise him doesn't mean they are automatically a slashaholic. Maybe...just maybe...and this is just my humble opinion...they actually DONT LIKE HIS GUITAR WORK.

I have no problem with Buckethead, Ron Thal, and Fortus. Paul Huge and Finck on the other hand...

People that think Finck sucks dont have a clue. He is better than most other bands lead guitar player. But people cant seem to understand that. The only reason most people dont accept finck is because of when he was first in the band he had his goth look. Listen to his work on the demos, he sounds great esp his solos in TWAT.

That's interesting...I actually LIKED his goth look from '02. I think he sucks and I base that on being a huge fan of guitar heavy bands. I know what good guitar sounds like and shitty guitar sounds like. People know what they like dude, music after all is a personal thing.

His playing just doesn't cut it for me live. Studio wise, I think his better solo is great. So maybe he's a good songwriter but a mediocre live player is my opinion. I'm seeing gnr in 2 weeks and I guess i'll find out if I was right.

People don't want to hate Finck. We want the band to succeed. The fact that he's not winning fans over, even hardcore fans of the new band is telling enough that something is clearly wrong.

Finck owns. if you dont like him, you dont like guns n roses. he is a huge part of the amazing show the band puts on.

Nonsense. In this band, Axl = Guns N' Roses..

not really dude.. its like dude above me said. Finck was the clear favorite as far as the audience went. you will see this for yourself, but take the blinders off before you go to the show. you are about to see that you guys bitch about silly little shit that does not matter nor take away from an amazing show. Finck is an ace guitarist and there is a reason he is still in this band, even brought back on after leaving and playing 60-70% of the leads.

[GnRmaniac]

Axl's voice has improved much from 2002 but I find that the only song he still lacks at singing is November Rain, don't get me wrong though the band does a great job and I think they should keep it in there setlist but Axl should spend more time trying to get some rasp back into the song and not that 2002 Mickey Mouse voice.

[Rick]

I've never been a huge fan of live versions of NR, however the RIR 2006 version was superb.

I'd rather have Estranged to be honest, however I do like seeing Axl playing the piano.

R.

[gnr-dave]

He is better than most other bands lead guitar player.

And yet he isn't even better than the other 2 guitarists in his own band. That is where the credibility problem is with the guy.

You use TWAT as a reference point for Robin's greatness. Most of us compare the version of the song with Bucket (a superior talent) and without, and the version with just Robin is flat. He doesn't have the talent to pull off that outro, or even create one like it.

A majority of GNR fans will never accept the guy as the lead guitarist of the band when he is not even physically capable of playing some of the material. You attribute people hating Robin to his look, the truth is people refuse to accept an inferior talent as the lead guitarist of a band who has such a proud history in terms of their lead guitarists.

Fortus or Bumblefoot would not draw nearly the criticism because they fit the bill of how a GNR lead guitarist should play. I can promise you that Bumblefoot wouldn't need to have someone else play song parts for him because he didn't have the chops to do so.

That is funny because a lot of people like the 99 version of TWAT over the version with BH. A lot of people think the BH version sounds too messy. Also, i disagree the 99 version sounds flat, it sounds fine. To be honest with the acception of BHs work on TWAT the rest of his solos on the demos cant even come close to fincks. Fincks are more soulfull and more melodic and BHs are just him noodling. Robin owns BH on Better and IRS. Also BH doesnt even play on most of the other new songs save he used to play the maddy solo, robin had all the othe solos. That is something you failed to mention.

Also you are full of it saying that Robn doesnt draw the critism, he has gotten much more critism than Robin has thus far on this tour. Again you are telling half truths, something Robin bashers are good at.

[Naupis]

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

Ding,Ding,Ding.......We have a winner.

[gnr-dave]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

it's simple really, you're thinking too much

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

now go ahead and pull the "it's not about speed or difficulty, it's about quality, i mean, have you heard 'better'?" card and we'll continue.

You are making no sense Robins plays his Nov Rain solo pretty much just like slash did live. So what is the problem? Again about a month again I posted a Nov Rain solo on here asking the forum to rate it, and the robin bashers said how much he sucks on this and should not be playing it yet it was really slash playing the solo. So again, the finck bashers need to give it a rest. When ever you have non die hard gnr fans review the show or listen to it, they always say it sounds just like the old band if you were to close your eyes.

Edited September 22, 2006 by gnr-dave

[Axls_Disillusion]

fuck who cares how finck plays the NR solo?

it sounds fine, its not like the crowd loses interest in the song after he plays his part, its not like people start booing and it ruins the song for them. some of you people are way to over critical. robin isn't fucking up any solos, its just the way he plays them. I for one love the way they sound. But even if you dont, its not like its a huge deal or anything. all you slash fucks keep saying robin needs to give you something to judge him on. well then stop juding him on a solo he didnt write in the first place.

Robins' given me plenty to love, and him playing guitar just sounds better then that washed up hasbeen who plays guitar in velvet revolver. it just sounds better.

[gnr-dave]

Another thing, no one can even claim those two nov rains dont sounds pretty much just a like. I love how the bashers dodge that question and cant admit the truth.

[KBear]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

it's simple really, you're thinking too much

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

now go ahead and pull the "it's not about speed or difficulty, it's about quality, i mean, have you heard 'better'?" card and we'll continue.

You are making no sense Robins plays his Nov Rain solo pretty much just like slash did live. So what is the problem? Again about a month again I posted a Nov Rain solo on here asking the forum to rate it, and the robin bashers said how much he sucks on this and should not be playing it yet it was really slash playing the solo. So again, the finck bashers need to give it a rest. When ever you have non die hard gnr fans review the show or listen to it, they always say it sounds just like the old band if you were to close your eyes.

Wow man. Non die hard fans? That says it all right there. If I'm going to ask for a comparison of old vs. new I sure wouldn't ask a casual fan.

Straight up, I much prefer the old band. But I also dig the new one. They are a great band, even if the whole situation surrounding GN'R is kind of depressing - when it comes to this new version of GN'R I guess you can call me bi-polar. Some days I'm loving them and some days I just miss the old days. Shouldn't that be normal for a fan? I mean, what came before was so big, how can one not be torn? Anyways, the two bands, outside of the fact they play the same songs with the same lead singer, do not sound the same. It is most obvious on lead guitar.

You may be able to point to a certain solo where Slash played it the way Finck does. Problem with that is that Finck plays it this way all the time. Slash could play it accurately or he could mess it up. But even though he did mess up at times we knew that other times he would absolutely nail it. I mean, the guy wrote the material, so of course he can play it. That shouldn't even be under debate.

Another thing is that Slash on his worst days, while not playing accurately, the solos would still sound good. It's like he was screwing around but he instinctively knew how to make something that had flow to it. Hey, even Axl himself said, Slash could play great guitar while completely wasted.

Anyways, it's not fair to just label someone who doesn't like Finck's playing a Slash fan. You don't like Finck so you must be biased. That's the easy way out; as if Finck is perfect and there is no debating it because any debate must come from a Slash lover. I've praised Finck enough for his new stuff (it really is superb), and some of his playing of the old stuff (I've said numerous times for instance that he is great on Patience). But a lot of the old stuff he does just sounds, well, pretty bad. The in-between-song solos he does are nothing to write home about either, a large step down IMO from Wild Horses, that Hendrix song I always forget the name to, and The Godfather.

I haven't listened to those clips you posted. I'll listen to them tomorrow and try to give an honest appraisal. I'm less interested in how accurate they are, and more interested in what actually sounds good.

Edited September 23, 2006 by KBear

[msmithmca]

i cant believe you say it sounded terrible live

i have several dvds, and the song sounds unreal- his voice was perfect for the song, live or recoreded

[gnr-dave]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

it's simple really, you're thinking too much

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

now go ahead and pull the "it's not about speed or difficulty, it's about quality, i mean, have you heard 'better'?" card and we'll continue.

You are making no sense Robins plays his Nov Rain solo pretty much just like slash did live. So what is the problem? Again about a month again I posted a Nov Rain solo on here asking the forum to rate it, and the robin bashers said how much he sucks on this and should not be playing it yet it was really slash playing the solo. So again, the finck bashers need to give it a rest. When ever you have non die hard gnr fans review the show or listen to it, they always say it sounds just like the old band if you were to close your eyes.

Wow man. Non die hard fans? That says it all right there. If I'm going to ask for a comparison of old vs. new I sure wouldn't ask a casual fan.

Straight up, I much prefer the old band. But I also dig the new one. They are a great band, even if the whole situation surrounding GN'R is kind of depressing - when it comes to this new version of GN'R I guess you can call me bi-polar. Some days I'm loving them and some days I just miss the old days. Shouldn't that be normal for a fan? I mean, what came before was so big, how can one not be torn? Anyways, the two bands, outside of the fact they play the same songs with the same lead singer, do not sound the same. It is most obvious on lead guitar.

You may be able to point to a certain solo where Slash played it the way Finck does. Problem with that is that Finck plays it this way all the time. Slash could play it accurately or he could mess it up. But even though he did mess up at times we knew that other times he would absolutely nail it. I mean, the guy wrote the material, so of course he can play it. That shouldn't even be under debate.

Another thing is that Slash on his worst days, while not playing accurately, the solos would still sound good. It's like he was screwing around but he instinctively knew how to make something that had flow to it. Hey, even Axl himself said, Slash could play great guitar while completely wasted.

Anyways, it's not fair to just label someone who doesn't like Finck's playing a Slash fan. You don't like Finck so you must be biased. That's the easy way out; as if Finck is perfect and there is no debating it because any debate must come from a Slash lover. I've praised Finck enough for his new stuff (it really is superb), and some of his playing of the old stuff (I've said numerous times for instance that he is great on Patience). But a lot of the old stuff he does just sounds, well, pretty bad. The in-between-song solos he does are nothing to write home about either, a large step down IMO from Wild Horses, that Hendrix song I always forget the name to, and The Godfather.

I haven't listened to those clips you posted. I'll listen to them tomorrow and try to give an honest appraisal. I'm less interested in how accurate they are, and more interested in what actually sounds good.

That is because the causal fans just base how the band sounds by how they play and dont bitch about Slash not being in the band. Some of the die hards dont listen to how they play and just bitch they dont play it like slash did even tho they do most of the time. Some of the die hards too just bitch that slash is not in the band anymore and doesnt even give the new chances a fair shot. And you have not even listened to the clips then how you can even reply to me?

The fact is a few times I have posted solos and asked for an opinion on them and because people thought it was Finck they bashed the hell out of them saying Finck sucks and ruins the solo and that slash would never play it like that, then I point out that it WAS SLASH playing the solo and they back track.

The causal fans give a MUCH BETTER idea of the players in this band because they are not biased because Slash or Duff are not in the band anymore. They base the songs on how they are actually played and not who is doing the playing.

[KBear]

Like I said listen to that nov rain solo i posted. It sounds just like Finck and its slash.

it's crystal clear that was slash. that's not the point though- it's not that a lot of us exactly want slash back, it's just that we want robin to practice.

No its not crystal clear that was slash since a month or so ago i posted that very same clip and everyone bashed it saying how much robin sucks, then i told everyone it was slash.

Compare these two versions of Nov Rain

Gnr 1992 vma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDr183NQw_Y

Gnr 2006 rocck am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eWer-vHDGDA

They sound almost identical.

it's simple really, you're thinking too much

bumbles much more difficult NR solo is right after, and no one questions how well he pulls that one off. which raises the question: why is robin playing ANY solos when you've got BBF?

now go ahead and pull the "it's not about speed or difficulty, it's about quality, i mean, have you heard 'better'?" card and we'll continue.

You are making no sense Robins plays his Nov Rain solo pretty much just like slash did live. So what is the problem? Again about a month again I posted a Nov Rain solo on here asking the forum to rate it, and the robin bashers said how much he sucks on this and should not be playing it yet it was really slash playing the solo. So again, the finck bashers need to give it a rest. When ever you have non die hard gnr fans review the show or listen to it, they always say it sounds just like the old band if you were to close your eyes.

Wow man. Non die hard fans? That says it all right there. If I'm going to ask for a comparison of old vs. new I sure wouldn't ask a casual fan.

Straight up, I much prefer the old band. But I also dig the new one. They are a great band, even if the whole situation surrounding GN'R is kind of depressing - when it comes to this new version of GN'R I guess you can call me bi-polar. Some days I'm loving them and some days I just miss the old days. Shouldn't that be normal for a fan? I mean, what came before was so big, how can one not be torn? Anyways, the two bands, outside of the fact they play the same songs with the same lead singer, do not sound the same. It is most obvious on lead guitar.

You may be able to point to a certain solo where Slash played it the way Finck does. Problem with that is that Finck plays it this way all the time. Slash could play it accurately or he could mess it up. But even though he did mess up at times we knew that other times he would absolutely nail it. I mean, the guy wrote the material, so of course he can play it. That shouldn't even be under debate.

Another thing is that Slash on his worst days, while not playing accurately, the solos would still sound good. It's like he was screwing around but he instinctively knew how to make something that had flow to it. Hey, even Axl himself said, Slash could play great guitar while completely wasted.

Anyways, it's not fair to just label someone who doesn't like Finck's playing a Slash fan. You don't like Finck so you must be biased. That's the easy way out; as if Finck is perfect and there is no debating it because any debate must come from a Slash lover. I've praised Finck enough for his new stuff (it really is superb), and some of his playing of the old stuff (I've said numerous times for instance that he is great on Patience). But a lot of the old stuff he does just sounds, well, pretty bad. The in-between-song solos he does are nothing to write home about either, a large step down IMO from Wild Horses, that Hendrix song I always forget the name to, and The Godfather.

I haven't listened to those clips you posted. I'll listen to them tomorrow and try to give an honest appraisal. I'm less interested in how accurate they are, and more interested in what actually sounds good.

That is because the causal fans just base how the band sounds by how they play and dont bitch about Slash not being in the band. Some of the die hards dont listen to how they play and just bitch they dont play it like slash did even tho they do most of the time. Some of the die hards too just bitch that slash is not in the band anymore and doesnt even give the new chances a fair shot. And you have not even listened to the clips then how you can even reply to me?

I can reply because I didn't even address the clips. You raised a lot of issues that I can discuss without hearing them. Again, I wouldn't trust a casual fan when it comes to comparing the old sound vs. the new. They haven't heard as many shows as a die hard fan has. Who do you think is more qualified to make the comparison? I mean, when a casual fan says that the new band sounds like the old one, what are they comparing it to? Tokyo? At most. Casual fans certainly do not collect bootlegs.

And I don't know how many casual fans you have spoken to. Probably only a fraction of 1% of all the casual fans in the world. Maybe a lot of them think the bands sound the same, there are probably just as many out there that if they went to a show would immediately say, "where's Slash?" In fact, the girl sitting beside me on May 14th asked about Finck, "Is that Slash?" I would bet most casual fans are this way.

The fact is a few times I have posted solos and asked for an opinion on them and because people thought it was Finck they bashed the hell out of them saying Finck sucks and ruins the solo and that slash would never play it like that, then I point out that it WAS SLASH playing the solo and they back track.

Well okay. I've never tried doing this, I'll take your word for it, but Finck and Slash generally speaking do not sound the same to me.

The causal fans give a MUCH BETTER idea of the players in this band because they are not biased because Slash or Duff are not in the band anymore. They base the songs on how they are actually played and not who is doing the playing.

Even if this was true, and I don't think it is, it's not just about that. For some fans GN'R is more than how the music is played, it's about the whole package. A band is a group of people, a group of writers, a group of performers. It is not just a collection of players and what sounds like what on a YSI download. A lot of fans think some of those intangibles have been lost. That shouldn't be hard to understand considering that the old band was as great as it was and a one-of-a-kind.

Edited September 23, 2006 by KBear

[gnr-dave]

KBear I go to the new gnr songs and talk with people after the shows and they all think Axl and the band sounds great. You dont hear many saying the new band played like this (the ones that do always have a slash t shirt on).

The fact is a lot of die hard gnr fans need to get over the fact slash is not in the band. We had BH one of the best guitarist on the planet, and he blows away slash and all those fans could bitch about is how he wore that Bucket on his head instead of listening to his soloing, and now that he is gone and we heard his solos (ending of TWAT) on a demo those same fans are crying why cant he come back. So if those fans would actually have an open mind and just accept slash is not in the band anyone they would see how great the players we have in the current guns n roses.

As for tanagles being lost. You really have no clue about the old band. Watch the bands shows when it was nearing the end they hated playing with each other and just were going through the motions. The only show they got up for was teh last show because they knew it was over. Also the new band has amazing chemistry if you actually watch them and dont be all pissy that slash is not up there Look at how Axl, Tommy, Robin and Fortus interact. Ron is the new guy so he gets a pass on this one but the core of the band has great chemsitry.

As for the old band being one of a kind that old band never had the same line up for that line.

After AFD for 3 years it was Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven.

Then Adler got the boot and it was Axl, slash, Duff, Izzy, Matt and Dizzy.

Then right after UYI came out Izzy left and it was Axl, Slash, Duff, Gilby, Dizzy and Matt.

So even the orignal band always had new players coming in the band.

The fact is the core of the new gnr (Axl, Diz, Tommy, Robin) have been in gnr just as long as the core of the original gnr (Axl,Slash and Duff).

And I still cant belive you cant take a few mins to listen to both bands versions of Nov Rain esp the solos. They sound 95% the same.

Edited September 23, 2006 by gnr-dave

[Axls_Disillusion]

Robin sounds better.

[angel of music]

I love how the new guys play this song, I don't know why everyone has a problem with Robin and his solo.. I think he's amazing B)

[troccoli]

Well, I must admit that I did not bother to read all the other posts preceding the one I'm writing so if any of this has already been mentioned, my humblest apologies. As far As Robin/Ron/Richard doing the solos I think it's fine that they change it a bit to add their taste/style. If you want to hear any different listen to the album or an old boot. But I do think htey should take the song out for 2 reasons - one, it's overplayed (don't get me wrong - great song but I'd rather hear Estranged at this point). Secondly, at least at the 2 Warfield shows, there was some strange buzzing sound during that song (coming from Chris Pittmans kerys I presume) that fucking ruined it. Did anyone lese who went to those shows hear this?

[KBear]

KBear I go to the new gnr songs and talk with people after the shows and they all think Axl and the band sounds great. You dont hear many saying the new band played like this (the ones that do always have a slash t shirt on).

The new band, generally speaking, does sound great. You argued they sound just like the old band. They don't. They will obviously sound similar. They have the same lead singer and play the same songs. But there are significant differences.

The fact is a lot of die hard gnr fans need to get over the fact slash is not in the band. We had BH one of the best guitarist on the planet, and he blows away slash and all those fans could bitch about is how he wore that Bucket on his head instead of listening to his soloing, and now that he is gone and we heard his solos (ending of TWAT) on a demo those same fans are crying why cant he come back. So if those fans would actually have an open mind and just accept slash is not in the band anyone they would see how great the players we have in the current guns n roses.

You seem to fail to understand what Slash brought to the old band. It's on four discs man, AFD, Lies, UYI I and II. And it's on all the videos and concert DVDs too. Check them out some day and then you may realize why Slash was so important. I'm not saying Bucket is bad. On the contrary, he was probably what i enjoyed most about the 2002 shows. I for one never complained about his look. I actually sort of dug it. Was it right for GN'R? Probably not, but that never seemed to bother me as much as it did others. The man was an amazing player and the TWAT solo is fantastic. But comparing him to Slash is apples and oranges; Slash was the right man at the right time for the old band. Bucket may blow Slash away as a player, but when it comes to writing hard rock riffs and solos, sorry, he doesn't. They are both amazing. He also isn't even close to Slash in terms of look and charisma. In that regard Slash was perfect. So to make a blanket statement like Bucket blows Slash away is just wrong.

As for tanagles being lost. You really have no clue about the old band. Watch the bands shows when it was nearing the end they hated playing with each other and just were going through the motions. The only show they got up for was teh last show because they knew it was over. Also the new band has amazing chemistry if you actually watch them and dont be all pissy that slash is not up there Look at how Axl, Tommy, Robin and Fortus interact. Ron is the new guy so he gets a pass on this one but the core of the band has great chemsitry.

You've got no right to pass judgement on me like this. You are the one without a clue. I spent about $800 to go see GN'R in May, and I said it was the best live show I had ever attended. It's in my post history if you feel the need to verify. I've got enough clue about the old band thank you very much. Chemistry is one intangible, not all of them. You think the old band didn't have it, I say they had it in spades. Hated playing together near the end? We all know the story, the band broke up. That's not what we are talking about here.

As for the old band being one of a kind that old band never had the same line up for that line.

After AFD for 3 years it was Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven.

Then Adler got the boot and it was Axl, slash, Duff, Izzy, Matt and Dizzy.

Then right after UYI came out Izzy left and it was Axl, Slash, Duff, Gilby, Dizzy and Matt.

So even the orignal band always had new players coming in the band.

But all music was written by the same five guys; Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Steve. Matt and Gilby came in but they didn't do anything new. They played other people's parts. Plus they fit in. I believe they came from the same scene. Dizzy as well. These changes weren't as big as some people make it sound; and they pale in comparison to the changes made later on.

The fact is the core of the new gnr (Axl, Diz, Tommy, Robin) have been in gnr just as long as the core of the original gnr (Axl,Slash and Duff).

That doesn't mean much.

I hate to have it sound like I am ragging on the new band. I'm not. I'm sticking up for the old one that gave us so much, that some people just don't seem to appreciate anymore.

And I still cant belive you cant take a few mins to listen to both bands versions of Nov Rain esp the solos. They sound 95% the same.

I told you I will, you've got my word. Be patient. I'm just waiting for tonight when I have some time to sit down, relax, drink a bit, waiting for the GN'R show to start.

[gnr-dave]

KBear I am guessing you did not even listen to both Nov Rains yet. Or you did and you see that I am right and dont want to admit it.

Quick things. I never said the old band did not have chemistry all the time. I said they did not have it near the end. And the gnr does have it, if you dont think so then you are not paying attention. You really totally missed my points and I am not going to even bother again.

[KBear]

Alright, I listened to the clips. It's the same song and they play it the same way so of course a lot of it does sound similar. I love Brain's drumming, Matt's a bit more subdued on this song and that works too. Axl sounded good on both, I preferred his 1992 performance with a bit more raspiness in his voice. It's obviously more difficult to spot differences in bass and rhythm guitar. Apart from one or two bum notes Slash nailed the first solo. Overall it sounded great. Richard's was slightly different but he did a good job.

The second solo though, no, they do not sound the same. Not at all. Forget about fooling people by posting an audio clip of both and asking what they think. Just compare the two solos right now. I played them one after the other multiple times and Slash transitions between notes a lot more seamlessly than Robin does. The difference is quite apparent. At about 5:42 you can hear Slash switch pitch and it's seamless and really makes that part of the solo. Robin hits the same part of the solo at about 5:25 or 5:26 and he doesn't play it the same AT ALL!!! Man, if some folks cannot hear a difference then all I can say is come on! From 5:50 to 6:00 Slash transitions beautifully between notes while closing the solo. With Robin I actually like this part of his solo. It's better than the first part he did. It sounds good, but to me it doesn't sound like he hits as many different notes as Slash did. Robin has a way of holding notes for a long time for whatever reason. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.

If some fans prefer Robin's version then hey, more power to you. Some fans will and some fans won't, that's the way it goes.

EDIT:

KBear I am guessing you did not even listen to both Nov Rains yet. Or you did and you see that I am right and dont want to admit it.

Wow man, I told you I was going to do it later on, just have some patience.

As for the chemistry thing, I don't get why you are focusing on when the band broke up. My point was that the old band had more than just guys who could play, they had various intangibles that had to be considered. They all came together to make the band great. Then you decided to bring up chemistry and said towads the end the band didn't have it. I was never talking about towards the end of a three year tour when their relations were strained. I was speaking about the band over it's entire lifespan, which is how it should be judged. Not on just a small part of its existence when things were coming apart.

Edited September 24, 2006 by KBear

[gnr-dave]

Its about time the you listened to it. And both solos some similar they dont sound 100% the same but they sound 95% the same.

[KBear]

Did you even read my breakdown of the solos? I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, and Finck was alright on this solo, but 95% is way too high a number.

[gnr-dave]

Did you even read my breakdown of the solos? I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, and Finck was alright on this solo, but 95% is way too high a number.

No its not, you can even take two slash solos and they are not going to sound exactally teh same

[mfragola]

november rain taken out of the setlist????

you must be kidding

these guys play it just as it should be played

go listen to the RAR version, and compare it to the live era one

the only "highly noticeable" difference is axl's piano intro (which is way better on the era's)