Where exactly does Ron fit in GNR?

[Axls_Disillusion]

bullshit. like i said, the way it is now is perfect. Finck gets a little bit more of the leads than the other two, because he is the natural lead guitarist of this band. It just makes sense.

[highvoltage]

Look, i'll say this. I'm really not that big a fan of Finck's playing. There were moments in his solo that I really thought were quite bad.

...Having said that, I think he's a charismatic performer and a great entertainer. If he wanted to, he could play exactly as Fortus does (he does this from time to time), but it's his style not to. I guess you either love it or hate it. I'm not personally a huge fan, but I do enjoy watching him on stage.

Ron is immensely talented - he's one of the best guitarists i've ever seen (not being biased here, truly). His stage moves have come a long way, and the red suit was priceless... to compare poor Robin to a guy like that isn't fair.

You can't kick Robin out of the lead spot - he's been in the band for like 9 years and he's done the least solo touring out of the other guys (yes, i'm aware he left to join NIN for a while). He's stuck by Axl for so long and i'm guessing he's probably contributed more than anyone else (aside from Axl) to the album.. and you guys want him dropped from the lead spot?

Be a little less harsh on the guy. Ok, his playing style isn't to your liking, but he's done a lot to help get the band where it is today. You don't just dump a guy like that on his ass and say "Ok, great, we've found someone better."

I wonder if your boss thinks the same way.

mr.Q

My boss?

Look, GNR is not a charity organization, it's a rock band and a rock band at this level is business (up till now CD has costs about 12 million). This means that everybody in the band should be top class. Fnck isn't, at least not with repect to lead guitar play.

mr.Q

Ok. Well, if you think that this band is about "business", that's a really sad thing for you. A band should be about music, not money. This isn't something Tommy Lee's come up with.

Any band wants to achieve is the best possible quality. With Finck you never will reach that goal.

mr.Q

So what? Any band should continually kick members out of it's ranks, regardless of what they've contributed in the past purely because better musicians exist? If Axl had that mentality, then this band truly would just be Axl and some "hired guns", which isn't the way it should be.

Wait and see what Robin's contributed to the record. I have a feeling that his chemistry with Axl will prove to be dominant on the album. I'm not a huge fan of his live work, but I don't see firing/demoting him to be an option.

[Axls_Disillusion]

the question of this thread is 'where does ron fit in GNR?'

its clear as day. He has his own parts in the band to play. He has a unique style and he plays the stuff that suits that style. This lineup is so spectacular in the way it is assembled.

[FinckFortus]

All 3 of them share lead and rythm, which I think is the best thing to do... as they all add something different to each part they take lead in.

Ron is the best out of the 3, but that doesn't mean someone elses style doesn't suit a certain song better. I think Axl now has the perfect mix and won't change it.

Spot on there. Ron's virtuoso style doesn't fit all the solos, and that's where the other guys step up. Perfect balance.

[Chris Axl]

the question of this thread is 'where does ron fit in GNR?'

its clear as day. He has his own parts in the band to play. He has a unique style and he plays the stuff that suits that style. This lineup is so spectacular in the way it is assembled.

amen

[Gnfnrhead]

Look, i'll say this. I'm really not that big a fan of Finck's playing. There were moments in his solo that I really thought were quite bad.

...Having said that, I think he's a charismatic performer and a great entertainer. If he wanted to, he could play exactly as Fortus does (he does this from time to time), but it's his style not to. I guess you either love it or hate it. I'm not personally a huge fan, but I do enjoy watching him on stage.

Ron is immensely talented - he's one of the best guitarists i've ever seen (not being biased here, truly). His stage moves have come a long way, and the red suit was priceless... to compare poor Robin to a guy like that isn't fair.

You can't kick Robin out of the lead spot - he's been in the band for like 9 years and he's done the least solo touring out of the other guys (yes, i'm aware he left to join NIN for a while). He's stuck by Axl for so long and i'm guessing he's probably contributed more than anyone else (aside from Axl) to the album.. and you guys want him dropped from the lead spot?

Be a little less harsh on the guy. Ok, his playing style isn't to your liking, but he's done a lot to help get the band where it is today. You don't just dump a guy like that on his ass and say "Ok, great, we've found someone better."

you will be lucky to get a response with some intelligence from anyone who bashes finck.

imagine robin if he hit every solo perfect and better than slash. then slash takes the stage and falls off it after hitting dozens of dead notes. these morons would still say robin sucks and slash was having a bad night.

for me robin is a very capable guitarist and everyone should just lay off him.

[darkstar_legend]

At this moment, I don't believe there is one "lead" guitarist in the band. All of them are being given equal opportunities to shine and I think that's awesome.

Yeah, I could see that. The thing is, I'd cringe every time Robin took lead role in a particular song. I just feel like, damn, he's not bad, but he's not that great either. With Ron, you don't even think about it like that. You just can't help but appreciate his input. Then there's Richard who's the default rythym guy who I feel could be equal to Robin in terms of performance but isn't given an opportunity to do so.

similar set up to iron maiden all 3 play lead and rhythm. ron also adds some nice ffects into songs like the blues with his acoustic.

I think this is how things will be like. The thing is, if you have one on lead, another on rythym, what's the third guy doing if he's doing anything productive at all? Sure, on certain songs, each may have different parts but for every song? Does having two rythym guitarists playing at the same time add anything to the song or will it result in both of them playing less agressively than usual so as not to drown each other out? Two on lead works pretty well as we saw Ron and Robin trading solos with each other. Ron totally owned there. I'm not being negative here actually I'm quite positive about this whole set up. The thing is, I belive Ron could carry Robin's part without breaking a sweat which begs the question as to Robin's usefulness in the band. It could very well be Robins role in the band being questioned.

With all that being said, I would not want to see Robin leave the band, at least not at this stage. I am probably being over critical and yes, each bring with them their own styles which without, the band woudn't sound as great as they did. Still you have to wonder, someone out there could easily replace Robin and do a better job. Do I see that happening? No. I'm disgusted I'm even talking about Robin in this manner.

[King Dick]

Robin is the best! a true star

[FinckFortus]

Then there's Richard who's the default rythym guy who I feel could be equal to Robin in terms of performance but isn't given an opportunity to do so.

Richard is given plenty of opportunities to show just how amazing he is. Just watch his NR solo - a stunning moment.

[abw1987]

I haven't been too impressed by Finck in the past, but man did he rock like a motherfucker tonight. His solo was amazing. The guy can obviously play.

...very, very, very sloppily

[f**k_your_enemy]

I haven't been too impressed by Finck in the past, but man did he rock like a motherfucker tonight. His solo was amazing. The guy can obviously play.

...very, very, very sloppily

[Anti]

Badass motherfucker.

Seriously though, if it makes any sense, Ron is there to play the kind of shit buckethead did, and play shit that Finck can only dream of. So, you got a rhythm guitarist (Fortus) playing better lead lines than your "lead" guitarist (Finck), and another guitarist (Thal) on stage to do the leads that are too hard for the "lead" guitarist.

Wow, no wonder Slash left the band and is afraid to return.

[madison]

What's with all the Finck bashing?

Robin is awesome. He's a chameleon who can change his style depending on the song and band: He can shred when the moment needs it and extend a few chords beyond the norm to make a tune his own rather than just playing chord by chord and beat by beat the way it was written. This is called talent and creativity. And if anyone doubts his talent - well, keep in mind he wrote "Better" - which is far and away the best of the new songs.

Back on topic: I thought Ron was amazing at last night's show. He's come a long way from the Hammerstein shows, and looks totally comfortable onstage and has great chemistry with the rest of the band.

At this moment, I don't believe there is one "lead" guitarist in the band. All of them are being given equal opportunities to shine and I think that's awesome.

Agreed.

[thomase]

finck is awsome and cool so why do people bash him and dose the rules say do not bash the band members

[f**k_your_enemy]

What's with all the Finck bashing?

Robin is awesome. He's a chameleon who can change his style depending on the song and band: He can shred when the moment needs it and extend a few chords beyond the norm to make a tune his own rather than just playing chord by chord and beat by beat the way it was written. This is called talent and creativity. And if anyone doubts his talent - well, keep in mind he wrote "Better" - which is far and away the best of the new songs.

Back on topic: I thought Ron was amazing at last night's show. He's come a long way from the Hammerstein shows, and looks totally comfortable onstage and has great chemistry with the rest of the band.

At this moment, I don't believe there is one "lead" guitarist in the band. All of them are being given equal opportunities to shine and I think that's awesome.

Agreed.

I don't understand all the Finck bashing... right from 2002 he only had a few fans on forums... then after the Hammerstein shows he got popular... and now it's gone back down to how it was in 2002... just now a few more girls like him cause he is "hot".

I don't understand how peoples opinions can change on him so quick

[thomase]

What's with all the Finck bashing?

Robin is awesome. He's a chameleon who can change his style depending on the song and band: He can shred when the moment needs it and extend a few chords beyond the norm to make a tune his own rather than just playing chord by chord and beat by beat the way it was written. This is called talent and creativity. And if anyone doubts his talent - well, keep in mind he wrote "Better" - which is far and away the best of the new songs.

Back on topic: I thought Ron was amazing at last night's show. He's come a long way from the Hammerstein shows, and looks totally comfortable onstage and has great chemistry with the rest of the band.

At this moment, I don't believe there is one "lead" guitarist in the band. All of them are being given equal opportunities to shine and I think that's awesome.

Agreed.

I don't understand all the Finck bashing... right from 2002 he only had a few fans on forums... then after the Hammerstein shows he got popular... and now it's gone back down to how it was in 2002... just now a few more girls like him cause he is "hot".

I don't understand how peoples opinions can change on him so quick

i agree and the finck bashing need to stop it's in the rules

[PurpleHaze]

This is the best guitar lineup any band has ever had.

Hmmmm....

Yeah you're right! Finck and Fortus are light years ahead of the G3 guitarists...

Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen/John Petrucci/Eric Johnson, Dave Wiener, Tony Mcalpine etc etc

I mean that line up just plain stinks guitar wise.

*lights self on fire*

[Patience 4 Axl]

Ok. Well, if you think that this band is about "business", that's a really sad thing for you. A band should be about music, not money. This isn't something Tommy Lee's come up with.

I think you're off the mark here. Yeah it's a band, and create and perform music is what a band does, but don't think for a minute it's not about business. Especially when it's a band the caliber of GnR. You think Axl hijacked the name from the original members for sentimental reasons? Or that he sold his portion of the back catalog for 20 mil for any reason other than money? Or rumors that supposedly anyone involved with the making of the album had to sign confidentiality agreements? The fact that he mentioned Universal hoping they didn't throw they're money down the toilet during his little rant the other night indicates first and foremost how much of a business this is and it's obviously on Axl's mind, even while he's on stage.

As for Finck, I have no doubt that for whatever reason, some people actually do like him. However, using the reasoning that Axl picked him and he knows what he's doing should not be the criteria of why people praise him. Music is a matter of taste, and people have given specific reasons, and even posted video clips of why they don't like Finck's playing.

The more shows he plays, the less Slash comparisons that come up. And that's actually a good thing. It's no longer about his abilities as a lead guitarist compared to Slash, it's now become a debate about his abilities compared to other members in the band. I don't see this as just senseless Finck bashing. I see this as a commentary on how many die hard feel about this new band they are growing to love once again. We just want it to be the best it can be, and I think everyone is in Axl's corner. But it's pretty obvious to some people that there is room for improvement.

[sweetness]

^^^Great post

Rons good and all, but Fortus has great feel and technical abuilty, the other two seem to come from opposite ends of the spectrum. If there would be one true lead guitarist it should be Richard B)

But there is no room for 2 main icons in the band, remember what happened with Axl and Slash? Thus the 3 lead/rythm guitarists, the part is shared by three intstead of one because its all about Axl these days.

Edited September 24, 2006 by sweetness

[Ridin' the Nightrain]

Ok. Well, if you think that this band is about "business", that's a really sad thing for you. A band should be about music, not money. This isn't something Tommy Lee's come up with.

I think you're off the mark here. Yeah it's a band, and create and perform music is what a band does, but don't think for a minute it's not about business. Especially when it's a band the caliber of GnR. You think Axl hijacked the name from the original members for sentimental reasons? Or that he sold his portion of the back catalog for 20 mil for any reason other than money? Or rumors that supposedly anyone involved with the making of the album had to sign confidentiality agreements? The fact that he mentioned Universal hoping they didn't throw they're money down the toilet during his little rant the other night indicates first and foremost how much of a business this is and it's obviously on Axl's mind, even while he's on stage.

As for Finck, I have no doubt that for whatever reason, some people actually do like him. However, using the reasoning that Axl picked him and he knows what he's doing should not be the criteria of why people praise him. Music is a matter of taste, and people have given specific reasons, and even posted video clips of why they don't like Finck's playing.

The more shows he plays, the less Slash comparisons that come up. And that's actually a good thing. It's no longer about his abilities as a lead guitarist compared to Slash, it's now become a debate about his abilities compared to other members in the band. I don't see this as just senseless Finck bashing. I see this as a commentary on how many die hard feel about this new band they are growing to love once again. We just want it to be the best it can be, and I think everyone is in Axl's corner. But it's pretty obvious to some people that there is room for improvement.

Again, you're spot on as always.

Ron's work is by far the thing I enjoy most about the new band, he takes every solo and adds his own twist to it. He really compliments the new sound Axl is after, I think. His stuff on KOHD this morning proved that when he's given a chance, he can take a song and absolutely tear it up, taking it to a whole new level of quality.

If I had my way, and Finck HAD to stay in the band (I'd rather he was kicked out), I'd have him pushed back to just rhythm aside from maybe the new songs he actually wrote, and just have Fortus and Ron share the lead. They're miles ahead of him, so it's only fair in my eyes. I'm positive that a Fortus/Ron combo would be the ultimate, and really cement GN'R in most peoples minds. They're both amazing players who I love for sure.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Slash's Appetite

[KBear]

Look, i'll say this. I'm really not that big a fan of Finck's playing. There were moments in his solo that I really thought were quite bad.

...Having said that, I think he's a charismatic performer and a great entertainer. If he wanted to, he could play exactly as Fortus does (he does this from time to time), but it's his style not to. I guess you either love it or hate it. I'm not personally a huge fan, but I do enjoy watching him on stage.

Ron is immensely talented - he's one of the best guitarists i've ever seen (not being biased here, truly). His stage moves have come a long way, and the red suit was priceless... to compare poor Robin to a guy like that isn't fair.

You can't kick Robin out of the lead spot - he's been in the band for like 9 years and he's done the least solo touring out of the other guys (yes, i'm aware he left to join NIN for a while). He's stuck by Axl for so long and i'm guessing he's probably contributed more than anyone else (aside from Axl) to the album.. and you guys want him dropped from the lead spot?

Be a little less harsh on the guy. Ok, his playing style isn't to your liking, but he's done a lot to help get the band where it is today. You don't just dump a guy like that on his ass and say "Ok, great, we've found someone better."

you will be lucky to get a response with some intelligence from anyone who bashes finck.

imagine robin if he hit every solo perfect and better than slash. then slash takes the stage and falls off it after hitting dozens of dead notes. these morons would still say robin sucks and slash was having a bad night.

Slash hitting all the wrong notes and falling off the stage, and Robin hitting every single note perfectly. This is something that would never happen and yet you're trying to use it to prove fans who don't like Robin's play are just biased towards Slash. If you need to concoct some crazy, impossible scenario to prove your point then maybe the point is flawed to begin with.

Why is it that fans can't just not like Robin's playing? If someone doesn't like his play they are written off as biased towards Slash. It's a bogus argument.

I've given Robin credit for his new material (it's great) and some of the old solos he plays. Others are horrible (Rocket Queen end solo last night is Exhibit 1 if evidence is what you're looking for). Most fans can see this. Others just don't want to.

And that's all I'm going to say about Finck because it's beating a dead horse already.

Edited September 24, 2006 by KBear

[argondamn]

It's this simple, Finck is below the material he's playing. Wrong notes, bad bends, overall bad playing. Atleast when I catch a bad note out of Fortus he's actually playing something hard. Fortus showed himself to be a better player last night, and anyone arguing Finck plays with more feeling and emotion should be shot. Sloppiness is not feeling. Feeling comes after you're able to play the material properly.

Hm... I guess I jacked the thread..

[quadlaser]

ron fits gnr perfectly, everytime he does an older solo it's superb, everytime he does a newer one it is too. talk about versatile. i dare say that thanks to ron, we heard the best versions EVER of IRS and KOHD last night.

i was very impressed with the RFs last night for the most part, but what's up with robin looking like he has to piss all the time? i hear all this shit about his wonderful stage presence and this is what i get!

maybe it's like that 'friends' episode where joey can only act well if he has to go

Edited September 24, 2006 by quadlaser