Bootlegs?

[Gunzen]

Should a "fan" site condone and even provide links to stolen music from GNR? Is is hypocritical to steal music then say we love the band?

I just dont know why we complain about no new music, but we constantly steal shit from the shows before it is released robbing ourselves of the "new music".

How would you feel if someone stole your wallet, everyday? That is how bands feel when you steal their music. I love how people freely condone robbing the bands we say we "Love". Wonder what AXL would think if you told em you love his new music you stole from the show?

Anyone think it is okay? Why?

Edited October 27, 2006 by Gunzen

[highvoltage]

It's hardly stealing if the fans pay for the studio music as well.

Bootlegs are a way for fans to extend their appreciation of a band. If it wasn't for bootlegs of the new band, this forum wouldn't even exist in the capacity it does today.

Maybe you're more fortunate, because you live in the United States - but I live in Australia, and Guns N' Roses haven't toured here in 13 years. I don't have an opportunity to see the shows that you do - so listening to bootlegs is the only way I can follow the band that I love.

...But you'll have to excuse me for "stealing".

[FinckFortus]

My contention is that if the band doesn't release it as a DVD or live album, then it should be spread, particularly by the fans as a means of promoting the band. It is not as if someone wouldn't go to a live show because they saw a bootleg.

[Gunzen]

It's hardly stealing if the fans pay for the studio music as well.

Bootlegs are a way for fans to extend their appreciation of a band. If it wasn't for bootlegs of the new band, this forum wouldn't even exist in the capacity it does today.

Maybe you're more fortunate, because you live in the United States - but I live in Australia, and Guns N' Roses haven't toured here in 13 years. I don't have an opportunity to see the shows that you do - so listening to bootlegs is the only way I can follow the band that I love.

...But you'll have to excuse me for "stealing".

It isnt just bootlegs, it is also leaking new music. Which in my opinion is why Axl cannot play more songs on tour for fear of letting the perverbial cat out of the bag. I have to respectfuly and comnpletely disagree with you saying that is how you extend appreciation for the band. You would do that by buying the album and wating for the band themselves to release their own videos on their website, like they do now, or buy the DVD's. I realize you live in Austrailia, and it is beautiful country btw, have been there, but they sell CD's there and have internet as well.

It just never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make to just illegal smuggle a camera into a concert take the material and have others say "Thats okay" But damn Axl all to hell if he is 2 hours late, he is sooo damn inconsiderate!

My contention is that if the band doesn't release it as a DVD or live album, then it should be spread, particularly by the fans as a means of promoting the band. It is not as if someone wouldn't go to a live show because they saw a bootleg.

You are probobly right about that, I have to admit, but it is still against the bands wishes or they would let you do it. It is thier right to distribute the video, not ours. Good point though.

[highvoltage]

It's hardly stealing if the fans pay for the studio music as well.

Bootlegs are a way for fans to extend their appreciation of a band. If it wasn't for bootlegs of the new band, this forum wouldn't even exist in the capacity it does today.

Maybe you're more fortunate, because you live in the United States - but I live in Australia, and Guns N' Roses haven't toured here in 13 years. I don't have an opportunity to see the shows that you do - so listening to bootlegs is the only way I can follow the band that I love.

...But you'll have to excuse me for "stealing".

It isnt just bootlegs, it is also leaking new music. Which in my opinion is why Axl cannot play more songs on tour for fear of letting the perverbial cat out of the bag. I have to respectfuly and comnpletely disagree with you saying that is how you extend appreciation for the band. You would do that by buying the album and wating for the band themselves to release their own videos on their website, like they do now, or buy the DVD's. I realize you live in Austrailia, and it is beautiful country btw, have been there, but they sell CD's there and have internet as well.

It just never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make to just illegal smuggle a camera into a concert take the material and have others say "Thats okay" But damn Axl all to hell if he is 2 hours late, he is sooo damn inconsiderate!

Leaking new music?

Rock AM Ring was aired on TV. Inland Invasion, Rock In Rio III and VI were shown as webcasts, and guess what? The new songs were broadcast and hundreds of thousands heard them. The songs have already been heard, so I don't see how listening to other bootlegs of the same songs is having them "leaked" - management have already approved that they be heard by the public if they approved the broadcasting of the concerts.

Also - we don't know for sure that management wasn't behind the leaks that occured earlier in the year. It's a remarkable coincidence that the 3 songs that leaked are the exact ones being played on the tour, is it not?

I'll be frank with you dude. If I hadn't been able to hear this new band through bootlegs, then I don't see how I could have been posting here for the past few years with nothing. They haven't released a CD or a DVD. Without bootlegs, there would have been nothing to hold my interest in them. Bootlegs are a vital part to the GNR community staying strong. If there weren't any, guess how many members would be posting at this site?

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

gnr is the number 1 bootlegged band, you can check the bootleg cover sites and see for yourself. since this is the ultimate live band and axl is the greatest frontman ever and mostly the fans are really very fanatic about the band ,each live show means a lot to the goers and people who couldn't go. goers want to have the show bootlegged cuz it's one of the most important nights for them, and other people just want to see every note, every act done by their beloved band. each gnr show is very special for every fan and it's their right to have them. if you don'T release any live shit, you can'T call people thieves.

take the super suck (imo) depeche mode, i dunno if they do it all the time, but after their istnabul gig was over you could sign in for 10 or 30 bucks i don't remember, and have that concert's dvd in a week, officially recorded and mastered with cover. i don'T give a fuck if they do this for only money or not but dm fans are very lucky to have this kinda approach. if this was done for each gnr show, they would sell millions of videos till now.

for those who bootlegged the shows or about to bootleg the shows, i salute you

off topic but for those who bitch all the time about axl being late to shows might FUCK OFF and go to a new age concert. you don't deserve the ultimate show.

[Gunzen]

It's hardly stealing if the fans pay for the studio music as well.

Bootlegs are a way for fans to extend their appreciation of a band. If it wasn't for bootlegs of the new band, this forum wouldn't even exist in the capacity it does today.

Maybe you're more fortunate, because you live in the United States - but I live in Australia, and Guns N' Roses haven't toured here in 13 years. I don't have an opportunity to see the shows that you do - so listening to bootlegs is the only way I can follow the band that I love.

...But you'll have to excuse me for "stealing".

It isnt just bootlegs, it is also leaking new music. Which in my opinion is why Axl cannot play more songs on tour for fear of letting the perverbial cat out of the bag. I have to respectfuly and comnpletely disagree with you saying that is how you extend appreciation for the band. You would do that by buying the album and wating for the band themselves to release their own videos on their website, like they do now, or buy the DVD's. I realize you live in Austrailia, and it is beautiful country btw, have been there, but they sell CD's there and have internet as well.

It just never ceases to amaze me the excuses people make to just illegal smuggle a camera into a concert take the material and have others say "Thats okay" But damn Axl all to hell if he is 2 hours late, he is sooo damn inconsiderate!

Leaking new music?

Rock AM Ring was aired on TV. Inland Invasion, Rock In Rio III and VI were shown as webcasts, and guess what? The new songs were broadcast and hundreds of thousands heard them. The songs have already been heard, so I don't see how listening to other bootlegs of the same songs is having them "leaked" - management have already approved that they be heard by the public if they approved the broadcasting of the concerts.

Also - we don't know for sure that management wasn't behind the leaks that occured earlier in the year. It's a remarkable coincidence that the 3 songs that leaked are the exact ones being played on the tour, is it not?

I'll be frank with you dude. If I hadn't been able to hear this new band through bootlegs, then I don't see how I could have been posting here for the past few years with nothing. They haven't released a CD or a DVD. Without bootlegs, there would have been nothing to hold my interest in them. Bootlegs are a vital part to the GNR community staying strong. If there weren't any, guess how many members would be posting at this site?

All that is well and good, but I dont think Axl wants his tour on video before they sell out the shows. Much like the NFL doesnt allow tv untill they sell out the games. If you talk specifically about certain shows, yeah some were leaked intentionally, maybe , but some were not. People posted links wiyh video to the first show of the tour with DURING the show.

I dont think because they dont release a CD you have the right to steal their music. So if Ford doesnt come out with a new truck when you want it you can steal one from the factory? Same logic. I cannot believe noone will just say it....We shouldnt complain about the band not playing by our rules (set lists, album releases, singles)cause we dont play by theirs (no cameras, video).

If you had to guess what the number one issue Axl has on stage it is with what? Cameras and Tape recorders, we know he hates it, we have seen it. Yet we just discard his issue with it and claim "Vital part of the GNR community" I think you can still be a fan without it. And fully support em. Noone wants to wait, they want it now, and free. Damn shame.

I guess I am the only one who feels that way so be it. At lead my thread didnt get locked this time

[highvoltage]

All that is well and good, but I dont think Axl wants his tour on video before they sell out the shows.

But it's already been broadcast for public viewing on video.

I dont think because they dont release a CD you have the right to steal their music. So if Ford doesnt come out with a new truck when you want it you can steal one from the factory? Same logic.

It's not the same logic at all. A bootleg is of inferior quality to the final product. For me, hearing shitty quality bootlegs only increases my desire to experience the show/album in their full glory.

I cannot believe noone will just say it....We shouldnt complain about the band not playing by our rules (set lists, album releases, singles)cause we dont play by theirs (no cameras, video).

I don't have a problem with the current setlist, and frankly - I don't see why anybody else should or does. I don't think bootlegging has much impact on whether they play new songs at shows. I think it's got a lot more to do with a crowd that would rather hear more old material than new material. People on message boards get hungry for new material because they've heard the old stuff before. Well, guess what? 95% of the people at those shows would prefer to hear stuff from AFD - songs that they know, can enjoy and sing along to.

Sure, maybe they could swap a few AFD songs for some UYI material - but that's not relevant to this discussion.

If you had to guess what the number one issue Axl has on stage it is with what? Cameras and Tape recorders, we know he hates it, we have seen it.

That, I struggle to refute - other than that it's probably the people making profit from the sale of bootlegs that he has a problem with, more than fans who just want to hear live music from their favourite band. If you'll notice - we don't allow the advertising of bootleg sales here, only trades and sharing for free. I think that bootlegging only really becomes an issue when people are making a profit from the works of others.

Yet we just discard his issue with it and claim "Vital part of the GNR community"

I think you can still be a fan without it. And fully support em. Noone wants to wait, they want it now, and free. Damn shame.

How could I be a fan of a band that i've never heard?

If my only way of hearing this band is through bootlegs, and you were to take that away from me - then how could I possibly be a fan of their music? Accusing people of not wanting to wait is pretty unfair, seeing as many of them have been waiting for several years now.

I guess I am the only one who feels that way so be it. At lead my thread didnt get locked this time

Because you brought the subject up in a courteous and civilised manner. Edited October 27, 2006 by highvoltage

[FunkyMonk]

i dont see how you can compare stealing a truck, and downloading a demo of a song (which management may have released anyway). trucks cost thousands of dollars.....compared to an mp3...

and bootlegs of concerts are the only things some fans can get. i live in Australia too...and bootleg concerts are about all ive got. the bootlegs are the proof that this new band has potential.

[Charles Manson]

It's a remarkable coincidence that the 3 songs that leaked are the exact ones being played on the tour, is it not?

Not really....

Since they were leaked, GnR probably thought that since the songs are "out there" due to unforseen cricumstances, they may aswell capitalize on this and play them live.

As opposed to a set of completely brand new songs which would then be bootlegged almost immediatley.

[STEERT]

They don't make a problem of it. Merck said it's okay for fans to trade bootlegs. He knows that it important for the fans, you can see it with the leaks, which are nog legal to host on your site. Bootlegs are fine. :-)

[ssiscool]

as long as they arnt sold then its ok.

[mr.drummin]

Bootlegs are a fans best friend.

[Lukinx]

Another thread based on money issues hidden in a moral package? Bootlegs, especially now a days, are often made by fans for fans. There is nothing wrong with spreading them and big bands should really give up on trying to stop it. Stop trying to be control freaks, you are already rich and have cashed in and are still cashing in lots of money. Smaller bands are flattered and see bootlegs as great promotion. The artist Adam Green even e-mailed me for a copy of a show a friend of mine shot of him and was totally cool about it. But people like Axl and for example Danzig have too huge of egos and have forgotten how it was to be a fan and really enjoy music and that´s why they want to control everything. I will never put them in front of myself or any other fans trying to enjoy good music and have a good time talking about it. Fuck, if we didn´t like the band we wouldn´t be bootleging and then spreading the stuff for free. Bootlegging is free promotion and gives more people a chance to actually hear the band. And with the likes of places like youtube the fans are really doing more promotion right now than the actual GN´R management.

Sure there are still assholes trying to make a profit of bootlegs but I haven´t seen any of them on this forum. People here are often very helpful with trying to help others out when it comes to getting video or sound from a GN´R-show.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Lukinx

[The Sandman]

gnr is the number 1 bootlegged band, you can check the bootleg cover sites and see for yourself.

Wrong, KISS are bigger.

[Gunzen]

Yeah but we all complain about it not being the way we want and we disregard the source of it all, AXL. Okay, so going against Axl and taking the direct opposite action that he suggests is cool? Maybe thats why he keeps stalling out on us cause we are playing "Opposite day against him"??

I remember for years we (my tournament fishing buddies, yes, I do have actual friends) would all go fishing and people would call it cruel, but we would say shit like, "The fish have no nerve endings in thier mouth" or "the hooks dissolve in their stomach" It was just bullshit to make us feel better about jerking a fish out of the water for our amusement (which I still do any chance I get). Kinda reminds me of all the arguments you guys are putting up justifying the bottom line. -----> Axl doesnt want it, (dont give a shit what Merk says, if people are getting kicked out for it, then Axl doesnt want it) he shows it, wothout a doubt, and we still do it. Yet we complain. I have seen them on occasion, but I have NEVER complained. I will take whatever he gives me cause in my opinion he is one of the last great musical compsers/performers left. When he goes, MCartney, Joel, Daltry etc, there will be such a huge void in music.

Good discussion though. I have actually stayed away from videos lately and I think the SF show was better because of it. See ya in Oak. on th 15th.

One more thing I brought up an analogy of a truck being stolen, I was wrong about that, I am sure Axls music is MORE valuable to him than a truck is to ford. Btw, I am a Chevy guy.

[Lukinx]

The bottom line for me is not what Axl wants, I couldn´t care less about that. I can´t prioritize his bitching about cameras or recording machines to what fans have been doing since day one, which is taking pictures and recording the bands they love (and support). Both to have a nice memory from the show and to be able to spread it to other people so they too can enjoy it. Axl is Axl thanks to these people, he woudln´t be where he is without the fans, but we would still be where we are without him. As I said before, bootlegs are great promotion, and fans don´t do it to throw stones in the GN´R machinery, they do it out of love for the artist and nothing else.

Btw: stop fishing!

[rockerman]

Completely different era. Back in the day and even up until just a few years ago Bootlegs were big money. They were rare and underground and something that you coveted when you got one.

Somebody would record a show and throw it out in the streets and make money off of it. I remember being in Europe when I bought my GNR bootlegs and I thought Ihad the world... now the stuffs all over the net and most people would be fools to buy bootlegs..especially GNR bootlegs because they are so common. THe covers are great and more often than not the quality is tons better.

No problem with bootlegs...love my bootlegs... even if bootlegs are the reason were not hearing any new songs from the band until CD is released.

[bax]

I definitely don't consider bootlegs of live material stealing. There are many bands that allow their shows to be recorded and traded as long as it is not for profit. Although I don't know that there is an official position on this issue, but I'm certain that if management had a problem with it they would stop sites that post live material from doing so.

As far as demos are concerned, it probably is stealing, but Axl himself said during Inland Invasion that he wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the leaks. I think he is 100% correct. If there hadn't been leaks and bootlegs of shows with the new band, there is very little chance that even the most hardcore fans would still be have a interest in the band like they do now.

[Gunzen]

I definitely don't consider bootlegs of live material stealing. There are many bands that allow their shows to be recorded and traded as long as it is not for profit. Although I don't know that there is an official position on this issue, but I'm certain that if management had a problem with it they would stop sites that post live material from doing so.

As far as demos are concerned, it probably is stealing, but Axl himself said during Inland Invasion that he wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the leaks. I think he is 100% correct. If there hadn't been leaks and bootlegs of shows with the new band, there is very little chance that even the most hardcore fans would still be have a interest in the band like they do now.

Fine, just dont complain about anything he does then. That was my original point. It was the hypocricy of bitching and then taking his new music.

BTW I am not sure at all if there were no bootlegs that great reviews would not fuel interest. Imagine how much better it would be to see the show if you didint know anything but just heard it was great and read great reviews. Seeing Fortus punch his guitar was a surprise to me as I didnt see the bootlegs vids lately. Though I do admit I hear a demo or two on Howard Stern. Richards energy was amazing and I had no idea, cause, well, I just bought my ticket and waited. To each his own.

Howcome no fishing? I catch and release, besides they have no nerve endings in their mouth, they dont feel a thing

[rockerman]

I definitely don't consider bootlegs of live material stealing. There are many bands that allow their shows to be recorded and traded as long as it is not for profit. Although I don't know that there is an official position on this issue, but I'm certain that if management had a problem with it they would stop sites that post live material from doing so.

As far as demos are concerned, it probably is stealing, but Axl himself said during Inland Invasion that he wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the leaks. I think he is 100% correct. If there hadn't been leaks and bootlegs of shows with the new band, there is very little chance that even the most hardcore fans would still be have a interest in the band like they do now.

Thats why I believe Axl and/or his managment ordered the demos to be thrown onto the internet. You have to be insanely nieve to believe that they were misfortunate accidents.That album has had an insane amount of security surrounding it and it is just too convienient that they hit the web shortly before he decided to resurface. Theres 2 reasons for this in my opinion maybe 3.

1) a test to see how long it took before they were everywhere...which is a good indication of how long it will be before Chinese Democracy is ripped and spread. 2) to give the fans a taste of what the new sound was going to be and dispel the growing myths that GNR was a neoindustrial/techno band and then 3rd) Those demo songs are what I believe to be a distraction from the songs on the album.

Axl knows that before he's even shuffled off to a club after a show that that concert- anyone give concert will already be on its way to the bootleg factory. If he was playing the big guns from the album the opus would loose its big debut because everybody would be all over those songs by dawns early light.

Edited October 28, 2006 by rockerman

[Gunzen]

I definitely don't consider bootlegs of live material stealing. There are many bands that allow their shows to be recorded and traded as long as it is not for profit. Although I don't know that there is an official position on this issue, but I'm certain that if management had a problem with it they would stop sites that post live material from doing so.

As far as demos are concerned, it probably is stealing, but Axl himself said during Inland Invasion that he wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the leaks. I think he is 100% correct. If there hadn't been leaks and bootlegs of shows with the new band, there is very little chance that even the most hardcore fans would still be have a interest in the band like they do now.

Exactly and thats why I believe Axl and/or his managment ordered the demos to be thrown onto the internet. You have to be insanely nieve to believe that they were misfortunate accidents. Those songs are what I believe a distraction from the songs on the album. Axl knows that before he's even shuffled off to a club after a show that that concert is already on its way to the bootleg factory. If he was playing the big guns from the album the big debut would loose its validity because everybody would be all over them by dawns early light.

I hope you are right man, would be sweet.

[rockerman]

Thats why I believe Axl and/or his managment ordered the demos to be thrown onto the internet. You have to be insanely nieve to believe that they were misfortunate accidents.That album has had an insane amount of security surrounding it and it is just too convienient that they hit the web shortly before he decided to resurface. Theres 2 reasons for this in my opinion maybe 3.

1) a test to see how long it took before they were everywhere...which is a good indication of how long it will be before Chinese Democracy is ripped and spread. 2) to give the fans a taste of what the new sound was going to be and dispel the growing myths that GNR was a neoindustrial/techno band and then 3rd) Those demo songs are what I believe to be a distraction from the songs on the album.

Axl knows that before he's even shuffled off to a club after a show that that concert- anyone give concert will already be on its way to the bootleg factory. If he was playing the big guns from the album the opus would loose its big debut because everybody would be all over those songs by dawns early light.

sorry for the repeat. Didn't catch my edit.

Edited October 28, 2006 by rockerman

[bax]

I definitely don't consider bootlegs of live material stealing. There are many bands that allow their shows to be recorded and traded as long as it is not for profit. Although I don't know that there is an official position on this issue, but I'm certain that if management had a problem with it they would stop sites that post live material from doing so.

As far as demos are concerned, it probably is stealing, but Axl himself said during Inland Invasion that he wouldn't have been there if it weren't for the leaks. I think he is 100% correct. If there hadn't been leaks and bootlegs of shows with the new band, there is very little chance that even the most hardcore fans would still be have a interest in the band like they do now.

Exactly and thats why I believe Axl and/or his managment ordered the demos to be thrown onto the internet. You have to be insanely nieve to believe that they were misfortunate accidents. Those songs are what I believe a distraction from the songs on the album. Axl knows that before he's even shuffled off to a club after a show that that concert is already on its way to the bootleg factory. If he was playing the big guns from the album the big debut would loose its validity because everybody would be all over them by dawns early light.

I hope you are right man, would be sweet.

I am almost certain that you are right about management being behind the leaks and I hope that you are right that we have yet to hear the so-called "big guns" from CD. Your theory definitely seems plausible to me.

[ssiscool]

i seriously dont consider it stealing