The #1 Reason Axl Can't Postpone This Album Any Longer

[Estranged Reality]

In the music industry Chinese Democracy is the punchline to a continual joke. Axl has very little respect these days amongst his contemporaries because of his alienating behavior. The media uses his image and his album as a source of humor - I dare you to find one reviewer who goes to an '06 show and doesn't make some sort of wisecrack about CD, whether deliberately or casually.

Yes, he's doing better now, and I'm glad he is. But that doesn't mean the masses appreciate him or consider him to be respectful. A lot of people still hold bitter contempt for him, and that won't change until he releases an album. If he keeps hiding behind it then he's just going to continue facing criticism.

I think Axl needs to release this album because it's his last chance as far as the public is concerned. He will impress most of his fans regardless of when it comes out, but for everyone who read the Rolling Stone interview, heard the chat show, saw news clips, and so on and so forth, this is going to be a defining point in Axl's career. He has never come this close to releasing Chinese Democracy. He has never said, definitively, "This is the year," prior to 2006.

If he does not release this album, he will be damaging his career. It's already at an all-time low with the general public, but if he delays it again, he's killing himself.

CD will become a bigger joke than ever before.

Axl Rose needs to release Chinese Democracy to blow people away. It's time. If he has over 70 songs recorded and is only choosing 13 for CD, surely it's not a matter of worrying about whether the content is strong enough or if he has enough songs. He can spend another decade contemplating what to put on the next one, but Chinese Democracy is a pivotal point in his life. If it is delayed again, I think a lot of people are going to give up hope altogether, and it's just going to become a bigger punchline than ever before. The very title itself will evoke laughter amongst the Rolling Stone crowds and Axl will have a harder time than ever before when he does decide to release it.

I hope for his own sake he doesn't decide to bail out on us again. He's had 13 years to get everything right. It's time to face the public.

And if the material is half as good as what we've already heard with the leaks, I think it has the potential to really blow people away - the same sorts of people who think Axl is talentless. He's going to turn a lot of heads.

[wasted]

Sometimes I can really see it not happening. But for him to come this far and not release it to me would be like pointless for him. He doesn't even like touring.

[gnfnr2006]

Like I said, I ve probably sold at least 10 copies by telling people about it, and have almost stopped talking about it to keep from looking like an Axl, i mean ass. But seriioulsy, if CD ever drops......wow.....Axl is gonna be on top of the charts and minds of rockers everywhere. The new stuff is FUCKN AWESOME !!!!

[Appetite 4 Axl]

He doesn't even like touring.

Where did you hear that? I'm just honestly asking.

Anyhoo he seems like he's in a really good mood at a lot of the shows so he seems to be enjoying himself right now..

[SJM]

In the music industry Chinese Democracy is the punchline to a continual joke. Axl has very little respect these days amongst his contemporaries because of his alienating behavior. The media uses his image and his album as a source of humor - I dare you to find one reviewer who goes to an '06 show and doesn't make some sort of wisecrack about CD, whether deliberately or casually.

Yes, he's doing better now, and I'm glad he is. But that doesn't mean the masses appreciate him or consider him to be respectful. A lot of people still hold bitter contempt for him, and that won't change until he releases an album. If he keeps hiding behind it then he's just going to continue facing criticism.

I think Axl needs to release this album because it's his last chance as far as the public is concerned. He will impress most of his fans regardless of when it comes out, but for everyone who read the Rolling Stone interview, heard the chat show, saw news clips, and so on and so forth, this is going to be a defining point in Axl's career. He has never come this close to releasing Chinese Democracy. He has never said, definitively, "This is the year," prior to 2006.

If he does not release this album, he will be damaging his career. It's already at an all-time low with the general public, but if he delays it again, he's killing himself.

CD will become a bigger joke than ever before.

Axl Rose needs to release Chinese Democracy to blow people away. It's time. If he has over 70 songs recorded and is only choosing 13 for CD, surely it's not a matter of worrying about whether the content is strong enough or if he has enough songs. He can spend another decade contemplating what to put on the next one, but Chinese Democracy is a pivotal point in his life. If it is delayed again, I think a lot of people are going to give up hope altogether, and it's just going to become a bigger punchline than ever before. The very title itself will evoke laughter amongst the Rolling Stone crowds and Axl will have a harder time than ever before when he does decide to release it.

I hope for his own sake he doesn't decide to bail out on us again. He's had 13 years to get everything right. It's time to face the public.

And if the material is half as good as what we've already heard with the leaks, I think it has the potential to really blow people away - the same sorts of people who think Axl is talentless. He's going to turn a lot of heads.

YUP!

[flickn]

seriously , you already have heard half the album through leaks . All this fuss over just 6-7 songs ?

[GNRfan2008]

seriously , you already have heard half the album through leaks . All this fuss over just 6-7 songs ?

We haven't heard half the album through leaks. We've heard around half the album through leaks and live tracks. I have a feeling that Madagascar and the Blues will both be much better in the studio than they already are as live tracks. "Chinese Democracy" will be improved too, although I really do not feel it's worthy of being the title track. It's the weakest of the 7 good "new" songs (this excludes Rhiad and Silkworms). "Catcher In The Rye" won't be on the album, at least I don't think it will be. I would be happy if it was, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The other 3 leaks certainly will be on the album.

[gnfnr2006]

seriously , you already have heard half the album through leaks . All this fuss over just 6-7 songs ?

I really dont think there will be any less than 15 or 16 songs, if not a bunch more. 13 years and $10M cant be summed up or paid back with 12 or 13 songs.

How much of UYI was played in the year or 2 before it came out? Were they touring a bunch the 18 months prior?

[GNRfan2008]

seriously , you already have heard half the album through leaks . All this fuss over just 6-7 songs ?

I really dont think there will be any less than 15 or 16 songs, if not a bunch more. 13 years and $10M cant be summed up or paid back with 12 or 13 songs.

How much of UYI was played in the year or 2 before it came out? Were they touring a bunch the 18 months prior?

Technically that money was spent recording songs during the "CD" sessions. Axl says that around 2.5 to 3 albums worth of material have been recorded. I'd rather have 3 albums than just one to be honest.

[bluesy]

It don't matter, son.

He can and will, that motherfucker.

[3rd Wheel]

In the music industry Chinese Democracy is the punchline to a continual joke. Axl has very little respect these days amongst his contemporaries because of his alienating behavior. The media uses his image and his album as a source of humor - I dare you to find one reviewer who goes to an '06 show and doesn't make some sort of wisecrack about CD, whether deliberately or casually.

Yes, he's doing better now, and I'm glad he is. But that doesn't mean the masses appreciate him or consider him to be respectful. A lot of people still hold bitter contempt for him, and that won't change until he releases an album. If he keeps hiding behind it then he's just going to continue facing criticism.

I think Axl needs to release this album because it's his last chance as far as the public is concerned. He will impress most of his fans regardless of when it comes out, but for everyone who read the Rolling Stone interview, heard the chat show, saw news clips, and so on and so forth, this is going to be a defining point in Axl's career. He has never come this close to releasing Chinese Democracy. He has never said, definitively, "This is the year," prior to 2006.

If he does not release this album, he will be damaging his career. It's already at an all-time low with the general public, but if he delays it again, he's killing himself.

CD will become a bigger joke than ever before.

Axl Rose needs to release Chinese Democracy to blow people away. It's time. If he has over 70 songs recorded and is only choosing 13 for CD, surely it's not a matter of worrying about whether the content is strong enough or if he has enough songs. He can spend another decade contemplating what to put on the next one, but Chinese Democracy is a pivotal point in his life. If it is delayed again, I think a lot of people are going to give up hope altogether, and it's just going to become a bigger punchline than ever before. The very title itself will evoke laughter amongst the Rolling Stone crowds and Axl will have a harder time than ever before when he does decide to release it.

I hope for his own sake he doesn't decide to bail out on us again. He's had 13 years to get everything right. It's time to face the public.

And if the material is half as good as what we've already heard with the leaks, I think it has the potential to really blow people away - the same sorts of people who think Axl is talentless. He's going to turn a lot of heads.

logical post

[Gunzen]

He doesn't even like touring.

Where did you hear that? I'm just honestly asking.

Anyhoo he seems like he's in a really good mood at a lot of the shows so he seems to be enjoying himself right now..

He got that idea from the same place where he said he is a joke to his comtemporaries, from Fanstasyland. Axel is well respected, I heave heard many bands, Avenged, Lars Ulrich from Metallica and other praise him. He just makes assumptions without proving any of them and speaks for everyone. Well, 1 million fans this tour with NO promotion. He is still popular whether you guys want him to be or not. And that is provable by the ticket sales, whether or not he "likes touring" or is comitting career suicide etc is just from those same 20 negative people who want him to fail so they can bitch.

[Estranged Reality]

He doesn't even like touring.

Where did you hear that? I'm just honestly asking.

Anyhoo he seems like he's in a really good mood at a lot of the shows so he seems to be enjoying himself right now..

He got that idea from the same place where he said he is a joke to his comtemporaries, from

Fanstasyland.

Now I'm SURE you really need to start reading.

Wasted didn't say that - I did.

Axel is well respected,

Yes, but what about Axl? We already know Eddie Murphy is well respected.

There is a difference between artistic respect and respect as an individual, as I said in the other thread.

I heave heard many bands, Avenged, Lars Ulrich from Metallica and other praise him. He just makes assumptions without proving any of them and speaks for everyone.

Again, you're confusing me with wasted. And again, you're using YOUR personal perspective - "I've heard many bands" - as an indication. Yet when I do this supposedly I'm speaking for one million fans.

There are also many musicians who criticize Axl. Off the top of my head Trent Reznor made a dig at Axl when speaking about Robin's departure from the band and more recently in Rolling Stone Hinder gave an interview and said Axl was a flake. James Hetfield made fun of Axl at a gig a few years ago and poked fun at his singing style by imitating him on stage.

These may not be great musicians, but that's irrelevent - the fact is they're popular acts and they're contemporary artists with mainstream success. They're not necessarily bashing Axl's MUSIC - they just don't like Axl because he is someone who tends to alienate other people and he has been a cause of controversy over the years. He's not known as being the most friendly and balanced guy in the world.

You said he has tons of fans. Of course he does. I never even mentioned fans.

And I never said he wasn't popular. Of course he's popular. That has nothing to do with respect.

You need to go back to school and take reading and comprehension, friend.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Estranged Reality

[Gunzen]

He doesn't even like touring.

Where did you hear that? I'm just honestly asking.

Anyhoo he seems like he's in a really good mood at a lot of the shows so he seems to be enjoying himself right now..

He got that idea from the same place where he said he is a joke to his comtemporaries, from

Fanstasyland.

Now I'm SURE you really need to start reading.

Wasted didn't say that - I did.

Axel is well respected,

Yes, but what about Axl? We already know Eddie Murphy is well respected.

There is a difference between artistic respect and respect as an individual, as I said in the other thread.

I heave heard many bands, Avenged, Lars Ulrich from Metallica and other praise him. He just makes assumptions without proving any of them and speaks for everyone.

Again, you're confusing me with wasted. And again, you're using YOUR personal perspective - "I've heard many bands" - as an indication. Yet when I do this supposedly I'm speaking for one million fans.

There are also many musicians who criticize Axl. Off the top of my head Trent Reznor made a dig at Axl when speaking about Robin's departure from the band and more recently in Rolling Stone Hinder gave an interview and said Axl was a flake. James Hetfield made fun of Axl at a gig a few years ago and poked fun at his singing style by imitating him on stage.

These may not be great musicians, but that's irrelevent - the fact is they're popular acts and they're contemporary artists with mainstream success. They're not necessarily bashing Axl's MUSIC - they just don't like Axl because he is someone who tends to alienate other people and he has been a cause of controversy over the years. He's not known as being the most friendly and balanced guy in the world.

You said he has tons of fans. Of course he does. I never even mentioned fans.

And I never said he wasn't popular. Of course he's popular. That has nothing to do with respect.

You need to go back to school and take reading and comprehension, friend.

I just stop reading posts after I get misquoted . If I saw them say it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhTkJEhyMj4 there you go, everyone knows Lars went to Hammerstein and said "axl was one of the greatest frontmen in Rock n Roll History" See VH1 Behind the Music Guns n Roses for that. That is NOT my perception it is what I SAW, just like the ticket sales, it is fact.

Thaqt is the difference between me and the negs, the negs speak for others with their own opinions, I just base my opinions on facts. i.e. They are awesome in concert, I was there, I read reviews, Afforementioned statemnts from other bands, I provided link. Could someone please provide me the link to Axl's bankruptcy filings. Thanks.

[Estranged Reality]

He doesn't even like touring.

Where did you hear that? I'm just honestly asking.

Anyhoo he seems like he's in a really good mood at a lot of the shows so he seems to be enjoying himself right now..

He got that idea from the same place where he said he is a joke to his comtemporaries, from

Fanstasyland.

Now I'm SURE you really need to start reading.

Wasted didn't say that - I did.

Axel is well respected,

Yes, but what about Axl? We already know Eddie Murphy is well respected.

There is a difference between artistic respect and respect as an individual, as I said in the other thread.

I heave heard many bands, Avenged, Lars Ulrich from Metallica and other praise him. He just makes assumptions without proving any of them and speaks for everyone.

Again, you're confusing me with wasted. And again, you're using YOUR personal perspective - "I've heard many bands" - as an indication. Yet when I do this supposedly I'm speaking for one million fans.

There are also many musicians who criticize Axl. Off the top of my head Trent Reznor made a dig at Axl when speaking about Robin's departure from the band and more recently in Rolling Stone Hinder gave an interview and said Axl was a flake. James Hetfield made fun of Axl at a gig a few years ago and poked fun at his singing style by imitating him on stage.

These may not be great musicians, but that's irrelevent - the fact is they're popular acts and they're contemporary artists with mainstream success. They're not necessarily bashing Axl's MUSIC - they just don't like Axl because he is someone who tends to alienate other people and he has been a cause of controversy over the years. He's not known as being the most friendly and balanced guy in the world.

You said he has tons of fans. Of course he does. I never even mentioned fans.

And I never said he wasn't popular. Of course he's popular. That has nothing to do with respect.

You need to go back to school and take reading and comprehension, friend.

I just stop reading posts after I get misquoted . If I saw them say it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhTkJEhyMj4 there you go, everyone knows Lars went to Hammerstein and said "axl was one of the greatest frontmen in Rock n Roll History" See VH1 Behind the Music Guns n Roses for that. That is NOT my perception it is what I SAW, just like the ticket sales, it is fact.

Thaqt is the difference between me and the negs, the negs speak for others with their own opinions, I just base my opinions on facts. i.e. They are awesome in concert, I was there, I read reviews, Afforementioned statemnts from other bands, I provided link. Could someone please provide me the link to Axl's bankruptcy filings. Thanks.

Wow, you're ignorant.

You're not reading anything I write.

Let me say for the last time that I didn't say Axl is considered a poor musician, IS financially poor, or that people have no respect for him as an artist.

That is NOT my perception it is what I SAW

That's a perception my friend. What you see is what you perceive. Look up the definition.

My point is you're using ONE example as a reason that ALL musicians think Axl is the greatest. It's not true. Lar's frontman James Hetfield hates Axl and made fun of him on stage. Wanna see a video so that you can, err, perceive it?

Stop being a sarcastic wiseass and stop trying to take people's comments out of context or just deliberately misread them. It makes you look arrogant, ignorant and stupid. No one said Axl is poor. You used his financial status and how many chicks he's banging as proof that he is respected and a great musician. My point was that it's not a matter of how much money you make or how many chicks you screw - that doesn't matter to true musicians, and it doesn't matter to Axl. I don't think he derives total satisfaction from that, or he wouldn't have spent so much time on this album.

If you judge an artist by how many albums he sells, I feel sorry for you.

Axl is a brilliant musician, but he is not well-liked as a person by many people because of his controversial past and antics. There is a very clear difference between being respected as an artist and being respected as a human being.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Estranged Reality

[Gunzen]

lets play the misquote game again, all I did was give and example or two about how they dont all think he is a joke which someone else said, I never said that means Axl is the greatest. Please show me the post I wrote that says becuase of Avenged Sevenfold Axl is the greatest.

Damn dude, And wrong about perception btw

definiton: the representation of what is perceived; basic component in

the formation of a concept.

a component does not have to be visual, just a component, so i was using it in the proper context, jesus, that was embarassing for you.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Gunzen

[ohyesindeed]

for some reason i think AXL DOESN'T REALLY GIVE A FUCK.

if he gave a shit about what his "true fans" ( ) thought of him, he would never:

1. made you pay for two albums on the same day.

2. claimed said albums were "completely separate" despite the fact they have the same name and cover.

3. wore flannel. i mean c 'mon, dude.

4. fucking added a horn section n shit.

5. kept the band going without izzy.

6. swam with dolphins. in a video. on purpose.

7. kept the band's name without slash.

8. hired robin finck.

9. got corn rolls.

10. we could go on like this for awhile......

he obviously doesnt mind being the butt of every music industry joke on the planet, and if he gave a fuck about what oher people thought of him and what he does, he wouldnt be out touring under the gnr name with some fucking sideshow that includes no original members.

so, i would say you may want to let go of this whole gnr thing until the record comes out. you're just making yourself crazy. go see the show, rock out, listen to the leaks, and just fucking chill. you're just adding fuel to the gossip fire that this new band runs on........

Edited November 20, 2006 by ohyesindeed

[3rd Wheel]

for some reason i think AXL DOESN'T REALLY GIVE A FUCK.

if he gave a shit about what his "true fans" ( ) thought of him, he would never:

1. made you pay for two albums on the same day.

2. claimed said albums were "completely separate" despite the fact they have the same name and cover.

3. wore flannel. i mean c 'mon, dude.

4. fucking added a horn section n shit.

5. kept the band going without izzy.

6. swam with dolphins. in a video. on purpose.

7. kept the band's name without slash.

8. hired robin finck.

9. got corn rolls.

10. we could go on like this for awhile......

he obviously doesnt mind being the butt of every music industry joke on the planet, and if he gave a fuck about what oher people thought of him and what he does, he wouldnt be out touring under the gnr name with some fucking sideshow that includes no original members.

so, i would say you may want to let go of this whole gnr thing until the record comes out. you're just making yourself crazy. go see the show, rock out, listen to the leaks, and just fucking chill. you're just adding fuel to the gossip fire that this new band runs on........

holy fuck im stunned

[Estranged Reality]

lets play the misquote game again, all I did was give and example or two about how they dont all think he is a joke which someone else said, I never said that means Axl is the greatest. Please show me the post I wrote that says becuase of Avenged Sevenfold Axl is the greatest.

Damn dude, And wrong about perception btw

definiton: the representation of what is perceived; basic component in

the formation of a concept.

a component does not have to be visual, just a component, so i was using it in the proper context, jesus, that was embarassing for you.

Don't pick and choose definitions, please. If you were more intelligent you'd realize words have various meanings depending upon what context they are placed in and/or how they are actually used.

PERCEPTION

2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment: an artist of rare perception.

3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept.

PERCEIVE

tr.v. per·ceived, per·ceiv·ing, per·ceives

1. To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.

2. To achieve understanding of; apprehend.

To see is to perceive.

But you're still ignoring the main argument of all this, and taking things to one extreme or the other. You may not have said Axl was considered the greatest musician of all-time, but you said Axl is respected by all musicians, and sadly this is not the case. He is respected by many as an artist, but many of his peers despise him. You told me this is not a fact and that your opinion of the opposite WAS a fact because Lars Ulrich praised him. This is something you perceived; you saw; you gathered. I can name many artists who dissed Axl - and I did. Not to mention media outlets.

That was the point of our discussion, but you keep trying to turn it into other stuff. First you started off about his financial issues, which wasn't being discussed. Then about how many chicks he's scoring, how many fans have turned out to recent shows, how many Appetite albums have sold (an album that came out almost twenty years ago). None of this is related to what people, today, think of Axl in general. Please note "in general" doesn't mean everybody; nor does it mean only some. It means the general public. If you don't realize this, then please, start broadening your horizons.

And please start comprehending instead of just hitting the "Reply" button.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Estranged Reality

[Guest Matt13]

I think there are too many assumpions by a lot of people. If Axl and/or GNR is a big joke (becoming a big joke, or whatever) it's been that way for years then. Axl's said in the past, on many of occasions that the album would be out by 'the summer' or 'the fall'. Pick a year. Doesn't really matter. If 2006 comes and goes w/o an album... I don't think anything will change. GNR's fans will still buy tickets if they keep touring... most of the casual fans don't even know about Chinese Democracy.

I think we internet folks, myself included, read into things too much sometimes. We all try to find the positive or negative in anything GNR related and do nothing but speculate.

In fact, that's all GNR forums have been since they've existed... one big shit ball of speculation.

So, I just listen to the horses mouth and hope they live up to their word. I think a lot of things point to the fact that they do indeed intend on dropping this thing this year.

- Official website launched.

- A multitude of leaks earlier in the year (I'm convinced, intentionally).

- Touring. If they're going to tour so much, certainly they're not dumb enough to not have a completed album.

- The apparent hijacking & financial backing of a GNR forum online. Why all the bans all of a sudden? People do nothing but speculate and talk about pertinent news info... they did that 10 years ago too... why now is everyone getting banned? Just seems odd.

- Marketing. Anyone that talks about marketing like they know what they're talking about (see Kaneda) saying "it doesn't work like this", or whatever, has no clue what they're talking about. Sometimes the best marketing is no advertising at all... especially if what you're trying to market already has a mystique to it backed by a big name. Do you know how many times nowadays an album drops from a favorite artist of mine and I don't even know about it? Even though they advertise? I mean, what kind of advertising are people talking about here? Do they want TV adds on every major news network? GNR logos on every street corner billboard? C'mon... GNR isn't that mainstream. No band is. But, if they do just drop this thing with little or no warning, it'll create so much buzz just because it was done so unconventionally alone, no further marketing would be necessary. ESPECIALLY if the music is outstanding. A big marketing push, whether it's before or after the release, will not make a difference with sales in the long run. If anything, people should be HAPPY Axl's apparently not doing things like everyone else. You think Green Day or U2 are in things for the music anymore? Don't fool yourselves. It's all about the buck. Axl not conforming to that 'machine', I think makes him more respectable.

Too many pieces are coming together... too many coincidences... I think it's culminating to a release.

But, alas, there I go speculating. My suggestion to everyone would be to just put the crystal balls away, because really, none of us know squat.

We are all just going to have to wait, and see.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Matt13

[Estranged Reality]

I think there are too many assumpions by a lot of people. If Axl and/or GNR is a big joke (becoming a big joke, or whatever) it's been that way for years then. Axl's said in the past, on many of occasions that the album would be out by 'the summer' or 'the fall'. Pick a year. Doesn't really matter. If 2006 comes and goes w/o an album... I don't think anything will change. GNR's fans will still buy tickets if they keep touring... most of the casual fans don't even know about Chinese Democracy.

I think we internet folks, myself included, read into things too much sometimes. We all try to find the positive or negative in anything GNR related and do nothing but speculate.

In fact, that's all GNR forums have been since they've existed... one big shit ball of speculation.

So, I just listen to the horses mouth and hope they live up to their word. I think a lot of things point to the fact that they do indeed intend on dropping this thing this year.

- Official website launched.

- A multitude of leaks earlier in the year (I'm convinced, intentionally).

- Touring. If they're going to tour so much, certainly they're not dumb enough to not have a completed album.

- The apparent hijacking & financial backing of a GNR forum online. Why all the bans all of a sudden? People do nothing but speculate and talk about pertinent news info... they did that 10 years ago too... why now is everyone getting banned? Just seems odd.

- Marketing. Anyone that talks about marketing like they know what they're talking about (see Kaneda) saying "it doesn't work like this", or whatever, has no clue what they're talking about. Sometimes the best marketing is no advertising at all... especially if what you're trying to market already has a mystique to it backed by a big name. Do you know how many times nowadays an album drops from a favorite artist of mine and I don't even know about it? Even though they advertise? I mean, what kind of advertising are people talking about here? Do they want TV adds on every major news network? GNR logos on every street corner billboard? C'mon... GNR isn't that mainstream. No band is. But, if they do just drop this thing with little or no warning, it'll create so much buzz just because it was done so unconventionally alone, no further marketing would be necessary. ESPECIALLY if the music is outstanding. A big marketing push, whether it's before or after the release, will not make a difference with sales. If anything, people should be HAPPY Axl's apparently not doing things like everyone else. You think Green Day or U2 are in things for the music anymore? Don't fool yourselves. It's all about the buck. Axl not conforming to that 'machine', I think makes him more respectable.

Too many pieces are coming together... too many coincidences... I think it's culminating to a release.

But, alas, there I go speculating. My suggestion to everyone would be to just put the crystal balls away, because really, none of us know squat.

We are all just going to have to wait, and see.

Good post Matt.

[ohyesindeed]

Good post Matt.

seconded.

[Dead Flower]

That was the point of our discussion, but you keep trying to turn it into other stuff. First you started off about his financial issues, which wasn't being discussed. Then about how many chicks he's scoring, how many fans have turned out to recent shows, how many Appetite albums have sold (an album that came out almost twenty years ago). None of this is related to what people, today, think of Axl in general.

Exactly.

Just for AFD alone, Axl Rose will always have his fans (and I certainly consider myself to be one of them) and hold a certain level of respect in the music industry. But it's 2006 and Axl hasn't been able to deliver anything substantial for a long, long time.

Everyday he continues to tour with this glorified cover band, I think he loses more fans and more respect. There is a high level of dissatisfaction on GnR message boards these days - and most of it is justified, imo.

Axl needs to either release the fucking the album, or at least be honest about his intentions with this band and tour.

[Estranged Reality]

That was the point of our discussion, but you keep trying to turn it into other stuff. First you started off about his financial issues, which wasn't being discussed. Then about how many chicks he's scoring, how many fans have turned out to recent shows, how many Appetite albums have sold (an album that came out almost twenty years ago). None of this is related to what people, today, think of Axl in general.

Exactly.

Just for AFD alone, Axl Rose will always have his fans (and I certainly consider myself to be one of them) and hold a certain level of respect in the music industry. But it's 2006 and Axl hasn't been able to deliver anything substantial for a long, long time.

Everyday he continues to tour with this glorified cover band, I think he loses more fans and more respect. There is a high level of dissatisfaction on GnR message boards these days - and most of it is justified, imo.

Axl needs to either release the fucking the album, or at least be honest about his intentions with this band and tour.

I totally agree, and I think they hurt a lot of their fanbase by posting that stupid Del James article. Yes, I realize it was in regards to fans who sit at their computers and bitch about the setlist, but it was also insulting to those of us who can't GO to the shows, or those of us who love the band but have other issues with certain aspects. I mean, there were some huge blanket statements in that article, and Merck reinforced them. It's like they're all pissed off that people on the Internet would have the gall to question the Almighty Axl Rose. I feel like saying: dude, it's not the early '90s anymore. It's the Internet age. It's the age where Star Trek geeks post on message boards analyzing every fragment of William Shatner's hairpiece in every episode of the show. People ARE analytical because message boards encourage discussion. You can't expect fans to sit there and just say, "Wow! Cool! Axl! Guns! Awesome! Woot! Yay!"

Then Merck bans discussion from HTGTH, using his contact with Jarmo to an advantage. I feel sorry for jarmo - what's he supposed to do? He can't refuse to listen to Merck, and now he has fans who hate him for it and are leaving his forum because of censorship imposed NOT by jarmo but by Merck. Jarmo cutting off connection with Merck would prove to be adversely beneficial to forum members later on down the road; Merck would ignore Jarmo, cut off ties. It's not fair what Merck did, and I don't think censoring discussion is Constitutional or fair. It's like they're treating this band as if it's something special. They take it too personally.

If Merck was the manager of an emo band I can only imagine what he'd do if he went to all the sites devoted to emo-hating. He'd probably die of an aneurysm or a heart attack.

The Guns fanbase is relatively small considering other bands that are active right now, and I think because of this he is monitoring discussions more closely than he should be and taking things way too personally - so is Axl. When people discuss Robin Finck's beard they should laugh it off, not bitch about it.

That's my small rant, I'm sorry but it seems relevant at this point.

[Guest Matt13]

I think there are too many assumpions by a lot of people. If Axl and/or GNR is a big joke (becoming a big joke, or whatever) it's been that way for years then. Axl's said in the past, on many of occasions that the album would be out by 'the summer' or 'the fall'. Pick a year. Doesn't really matter. If 2006 comes and goes w/o an album... I don't think anything will change. GNR's fans will still buy tickets if they keep touring... most of the casual fans don't even know about Chinese Democracy.

I think we internet folks, myself included, read into things too much sometimes. We all try to find the positive or negative in anything GNR related and do nothing but speculate.

In fact, that's all GNR forums have been since they've existed... one big shit ball of speculation.

So, I just listen to the horses mouth and hope they live up to their word. I think a lot of things point to the fact that they do indeed intend on dropping this thing this year.

- Official website launched.

- A multitude of leaks earlier in the year (I'm convinced, intentionally).

- Touring. If they're going to tour so much, certainly they're not dumb enough to not have a completed album.

- The apparent hijacking & financial backing of a GNR forum online. Why all the bans all of a sudden? People do nothing but speculate and talk about pertinent news info... they did that 10 years ago too... why now is everyone getting banned? Just seems odd.

- Marketing. Anyone that talks about marketing like they know what they're talking about (see Kaneda) saying "it doesn't work like this", or whatever, has no clue what they're talking about. Sometimes the best marketing is no advertising at all... especially if what you're trying to market already has a mystique to it backed by a big name. Do you know how many times nowadays an album drops from a favorite artist of mine and I don't even know about it? Even though they advertise? I mean, what kind of advertising are people talking about here? Do they want TV adds on every major news network? GNR logos on every street corner billboard? C'mon... GNR isn't that mainstream. No band is. But, if they do just drop this thing with little or no warning, it'll create so much buzz just because it was done so unconventionally alone, no further marketing would be necessary. ESPECIALLY if the music is outstanding. A big marketing push, whether it's before or after the release, will not make a difference with sales. If anything, people should be HAPPY Axl's apparently not doing things like everyone else. You think Green Day or U2 are in things for the music anymore? Don't fool yourselves. It's all about the buck. Axl not conforming to that 'machine', I think makes him more respectable.

Too many pieces are coming together... too many coincidences... I think it's culminating to a release.

But, alas, there I go speculating. My suggestion to everyone would be to just put the crystal balls away, because really, none of us know squat.

We are all just going to have to wait, and see.

Good post Matt.

It's fun to speculate... and it's easy to respond to posts that do just that... speculate. When I read folks that come on here and say, 'this is how it is', and it's just them forcing their own speculation down everyone elses throats, it's laughable. I usually turn into dick-head Matt13 and let them know they are really clueless and ignorant to believe they think they know it all.

People just need to realize that until CD is released, none of us really know anything. We can speculate that GNR is considered a joke within the music industry... but, are they really? Of course the whole orginal lineup debate is going to mar most reviews (until they put out their own material at least), so I think you need to throw that aside. With that component gone, the reviews for the most part have been outstanding... good press... good advertising... good marketing. Sure, there have been a few writers that have blasted GNR for whatever reason, but does that really mean anything? I think the music industry has been in the same mindset with Axl/GNR since 2000, really. They know it's coming, but is it really? Until it does, GNR to them is just another little story in their magazines whenever they tour. Some will nit-pick the negative, some will simply see the positive. Hey, I mean, it is Axl Rose on stage, right? How fucking cool would that have been two years ago?

So there's a few facts with more speculation thrown in. It's a never ending cycle and very curiously so. How we can continue to find things to talk about amazes me.

But, I'm confident things will be just fine. I mean, GNR has one of the largest online communities in the world in the music business... and they haven't put out an original record since 1991?

Hats off to them... the interst is obviously there... and I think it will always be. Some call the waiting and teasing tourture... I call it a rock band that gets a little interest from me online when I'm bored. There are more important things in life to enjoy in the meantime... we'll hear CD. I hope it's Tuesday!!!!! Haha... or at least this year... if not, oh well.