Smashing Pumpkins vs. Nirvana

[bluesy]

Love both, but the Pumpkins just had more balls with their material. Gish just kicks ass, Siamese Dream is a masterpiece on par with Nevermind, Mellon Collie is a career peak, Adore is just fucking beautifully depressing, Machina kicks your ass in space, Zeitgeist is reinvigorated ass kicking. Rarely a dull moment in their entire catalogue.

Unfortunately for Nirvana, Cobain died before he could take the band in a new direction. He said In Utero was gonna be their last record with the 3-chord song structure and he really wanted to branch out. He had a great love for new wave and other obscure bands; it would have been interesting to see him grow as a songwriter.

I'm glad I've met somebody here that actually enjoys Zeitgeist, I can't figure out why so many individuals loathe that album. It rocks!

For the most part, I dig it. I'm not quite sure if it lives up to their legacy, but its a good effort. Corgan kinda screwed himself when he declared rock dead in '98 and then went on to write more rock records. From an artistic standpoint, he doesn't really bring anything new to the table. I mean, at this point he doesn't have the ability to reinvent himself or throw himself in a completely different direction, like say, Radiohead. I'm sure a lot of people are gonna bash him for that. He tried to make-over the music industry with Adore, but after that experiment failed, he went back to what he knows, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.

[Sweet Raptured Light]

I mean I like the pumpkins, but I did not like the new single, yet I have only heard it a few times, so it might grow on me after awhile.

[pain cake]

I mean I like the pumpkins, but I did not like the new single, yet I have only heard it a few times, so it might grow on me after awhile.

I love Tarantula, his voice is a little soulless is all, but other than that it is a great song

[nathalie92]

Pumpkins for me..

I love Billy Corgan and i like more their material, albums like Siamese Dreams, Mellon Collie and Adore are masterpieces Disarm is one of the best song from the 90's it's so beautiful..

[Bucketslash]

Nirvana

Billy Corgan pisses me off. Alot.

Why is that?

Cause, he's the "tortured artist" who gives thier band no creative input, who broke up the band origonally when they wanted a say to have a solo career, who, when that flopped, decded he'd rather be a rock star again and yet still gives no creative input to his band(look at zeitgeist)

kurt, on the other hand wrote mandy songs WITH his band. He worked coraboratively with them

thats why nirvana will always beat the punpkins

corgan's a man who takes all the credit and uses the band name to bring them fame

cobain's what corgan wants to be, a hard rock band where the members collaborate and are actually a band, oh, and actually have some legitamacy

I mean, not even Paul Mccartney with wings was as bad as Billy Corgan is to the pumpkins

[arnold layne]

Nirvana

Billy Corgan pisses me off. Alot.

Why is that?

Cause, he's the "tortured artist" who gives thier band no creative input, who broke up the band origonally when they wanted a say to have a solo career, who, when that flopped, decded he'd rather be a rock star again and yet still gives no creative input to his band(look at zeitgeist)

kurt, on the other hand wrote mandy songs WITH his band. He worked coraboratively with them

thats why nirvana will always beat the punpkins

corgan's a man who takes all the credit and uses the band name to bring them fame

cobain's what corgan wants to be, a hard rock band where the members collaborate and are actually a band, oh, and actually have some legitamacy

I mean, not even Paul Mccartney with wings was as bad as Billy Corgan is to the pumpkins

Okay, I know you're a Guns N' Roses fan, so I think you'll understand what I am trying to say...

Isn't Axl Rose the same way? I think he can be compaired to Billy Corgan. You're saying that Corgan made a mistake by taking the bands credit by creating Zeitgeist? Even though Corgan and Jimmy were the only original members in the reunion? Look, Axl Rose is doing the EXACT same thing. He's living off his past glory. He has cover musicians, back up musicans or artists. I don't care, but the point is he's doing the exact same thing Corgan is doing. So since Corgan pisses you off a lot...doesn't Axl do the same thing? I'm trying to make a comparison here, and I'm wondering your response.

And please, don't give me that Chinese Democracy rocks, while Zeitgeist just blows. I love Zeitgeist, I don't care what anyone says, and an opinion is an opinion. I don't think it's fair to judge Corgan like this though.

[luciusfunk]

corgan's a man who takes all the credit and uses the band name to bring them fame

Like Axl Rose and the current incarnation of Guns N' Roses?

[Bucketslash]

well, no, because atleast everyone who's been in gnr more than a year(from the 1994 and before) era wrote songs in gnr, we don't know who wrote what in the new gnr cept the robin wrote better, therefore atleast gnr members are allowed to write, pumpkins have less than that(figureheads pretty much)

[pain cake]

Nirvana

Billy Corgan pisses me off. Alot.

Why is that?

Cause, he's the "tortured artist" who gives thier band no creative input, who broke up the band origonally when they wanted a say to have a solo career, who, when that flopped, decded he'd rather be a rock star again and yet still gives no creative input to his band(look at zeitgeist)

kurt, on the other hand wrote mandy songs WITH his band. He worked coraboratively with them

thats why nirvana will always beat the punpkins

corgan's a man who takes all the credit and uses the band name to bring them fame

cobain's what corgan wants to be, a hard rock band where the members collaborate and are actually a band, oh, and actually have some legitamacy

Corgan in no way attempts to take all the glory, it's just that him and Chamberlin are the only ones with talent; ever listened to James Iha's song "Take me down"? It's the only song he completely wrote and completely sang on Mellon Collie and it totally sucks. The songs D'Arcy and James sing on are dreadful, like Daydream and Farewell and Goodnight. Billy was in control because he had to be in control, he's the one with the unique voice and the musical ability, he did collaborate with Iha sometimes, but the songs always came out like someone with only a small bit of talent wrote them (That being Corgan's talent, and the rest Iha's redundancy)

[Bucketslash]

Maybe if they were given more of a chance to work on it, they'd get better and better?(a la George Harrison)

that also doesn't explain why he doesn't collaborate more WITH them(this isn't nine inch nails you know)

so no, that still does't hold water,

Edited July 17, 2007 by Bucketslash

[pain cake]

Maybe if they were given more of a chance to work on it, they'd get better and better?(a la George Harrison)

that also doesn't explain why he doesn't collaborate more WITH them(this isn't nine inch nails you know)

so no, that still does't hold water,

Harrison didn't collaborate with Lennon or McCartney, he wrote on his own, like Iha and D'Arcy and Chamberlin could have written their own songs, but Corgan was the only one doing it, and as I said, they tried that, and it sucked.

[Bucketslash]

Maybe if they were given more of a chance to work on it, they'd get better and better?(a la George Harrison)

that also doesn't explain why he doesn't collaborate more WITH them(this isn't nine inch nails you know)

so no, that still does't hold water,

Harrison didn't collaborate with Lennon or McCartney, he wrote on his own, like Iha and D'Arcy and Chamberlin could have written their own songs, but Corgan was the only one doing it, and as I said, they tried that, and it sucked.

no, they did try to write thier own songs, thats a big chunk of why they broke up

and yeah, harrison wrote a handful of songs with the other beatles actually

(Dig It, Free As A Bird, Cry for A Shadow etc.)

[nameless_girl]

Nirvana here.

[inthisriver]

I've gotta go with the Pumpkins on this one. For some reason I've never really been able to get into Nirvana. I instantaneously loved the Pumpkins the first time I heard "Bullet with Butterfly Wings."

[arnold layne]

well, no, because atleast everyone who's been in gnr more than a year(from the 1994 and before) era wrote songs in gnr, we don't know who wrote what in the new gnr cept the robin wrote better, therefore atleast gnr members are allowed to write, pumpkins have less than that(figureheads pretty much)

Not really. At least Corgan tried to reform the Smashing Pumpkins rather than adding additional musicians to cover old songs. I mean, Ginger and Roy Thomas Baker still do those things during concerts, but they still helped do some things in Zeitgeist. I don't count Axl's Chinese Democracy in this discussion because none of the material has been released thus far. Besides, Billy welcomed D'Arcy and James back but they refused to participate in the reunion. I don't think Axl is even close to letting a orignal Guns N' Roses reunion.

Also, The Smashing Pumpkins have always been a one man show. In some albums (forget which one), Billy played almost every instrument, except the drums because Jimmy is well capable of playing those things.

But basically, I think Billy tried to reform the Pumpkins, but you can't control everyone. It doesn't matter who wrote the songs, it's how well the material sounds. I think it's foolish to hate Billy because he tried reforming the Pumpkins, and defending Axl because Robin wrote a guitar part.

[Bucketslash]

Also, The Smashing Pumpkins have always been a one man show. In some albums (forget which one), Billy played almost every instrument, except the drums because Jimmy is well capable of playing those things.

But basically, I think Billy tried to reform the Pumpkins, but you can't control everyone. It doesn't matter who wrote the songs, it's how well the material sounds. I think it's foolish to hate Billy because he tried reforming the Pumpkins, and defending Axl because Robin wrote a guitar part.

Silkworms?(enough new gnr though)

Thats not the point, the point is, billy corgan, for better or worse, is the pumpkins, and when the pumpkins reunited, it's basically the same thing as billy solo, so, yeah, he did it to be a rock star again,

don't get me wrong, facism can make a good band, (syd era pink floyd?) and if it was 1997, I'd love the pumpkins. Getting jerked around to have billy's solo material thrown in my face?not so much. Btw, if you listen to zeitgeist, it sounds more like billy solo than the pumpkins, leaving me to question if he just wrote the tracks all at once, then when his album flopped, decided that the only way he could sell his material was under the name the smashing pumpkins, and maybe made it sound a little more pumpkin-like.

[chicagocoma13]

Billy Corgan and Jimmy are the Smashing Pumpkins. For those who don't know-- Billy wrote all the songs, recorded ALL the guitars and basses for the albums and Jimmy played drums on the albums. James and Darcy were basically hired musicians for the live shows. I do miss James a bit but Darcy was a very average bass player. Melissa was far superior and the new girl sounds good so far on the live shows I have seen. The new album is solid but not a masterpiece IMHO. Sounds like the Pumpkins of old ( nothing like Billy's solo album which had no heavy guitars) but nothing groundbreaking.

[arnold layne]

Billy Corgan and Jimmy are the Smashing Pumpkins. For those who don't know-- Billy wrote all the songs, recorded ALL the guitars and basses for the albums and Jimmy played drums on the albums. James and Darcy were basically hired musicians for the live shows. I do miss James a bit but Darcy was a very average bass player. Melissa was far superior and the new girl sounds good so far on the live shows I have seen. The new album is solid but not a masterpiece IMHO. Sounds like the Pumpkins of old ( nothing like Billy's solo album which had no heavy guitars) but nothing groundbreaking.

Exactly. Great post chicagocoma13.

[Zeppelin]

It's a tie. They both lose.