Recycled music...

[Zint]

If these so called artists are sooo talented...let see them shine on their own.

There should be no need for them to dip into other cookie jars if they are oozing with such raw talent.

It makes them look unqualified,uninspired and lacking in originality.

yeah but their take on it is original. everything is derived from something and shouldnt let things like that get in the way of making a 4 or so minute long piece of music that is good. at lot of early rock n roll sounds VERY similar, same with Blues, same with every genre, the same chords progressions are used in countless songs that are only reinterpreted through rhythmic difference, its not forgery or a rip off, its re-interpretation. by that rationale playing rock n roll in this day and age at all is lacking in originality, that music is hugely aged but a lot of the rock intelligensia look down on genres like techno and dub reggae and stuff even though they are HUGELY original. i dont think the shit should be taken that seriously. if you can make somethin from something, make it sound good to my ears then go for it.

Of course their's simliarities and same chord progressions in every genre...Ramones a fine example of that.

At least the Ramones took the same three chords and rearranged them and managed to come with up new songs...they didn't sample Summertime Blues and write new lyrics over it.

Do your own shit...prove yourself.

Ok, how about we give you a pair of decks and some vinyl and you make something original out of something old.

I'd prefer a guitar thanks...I enjoy the artistic expression of a musical instrument.

[Zint]

just as taking the same 3 chords and rearranging them gives so new songs, so does this sampling sections of multiple songs and rearranging them gives you new songs dude. that is your shit, the rearranged order in which you've now put them, the talent it takes to mix them, the reinterpretation that you apply is directly akin to what the ramones did.

Sampling mutliple songs is just that...sampling existing songs.

I'm impressed with your studio trickery,wow you can "re-arrange" songs...very cool.Now learn how to play an instrument,pour your heart into your lyrics and impress me.

Scratching Stairway to Heaven back and forth on a turntable is proving nothing to me,other than the fact that you're destroying some perfectly good vinyl.

[P.A. Guns]

I think sampling is just plain stupid. Reminds me of this time someone played Tainted Love in a assembly, and this one chick shouted "OMG I love Rhianna!!!11" Ugh.

[kathyrose69]

I hated it when Run DMC did Walk This Way, even though Aeosmith was also in the video etc., it really just ruined that song for me..

PS I hate Rap

Edited August 6, 2007 by kathyrose69

[swlabr]

I hated it when Run DMC did Walk This Way, even though Aeosmith was also in the video etc., it really just ruined that song for me..

PS I hate Rap

It was a collaboration not a cover. Rap hates you.

[Zeppelin]

I hate that Gym Class Heroes use the "Take A Look At My Girlfriend" part in their Cupid In A Chokehold or whatever it is, I've seen lots of people going "they're excellent lyrics"

and I'm like DUDE IT'S SUPERTRAMP!!

No fucker in my whole goddamn shit hole town seems to know its a cover

I loved the original; now its ruined!

xDSGx

How is it ruined?

Besides, it's only the chorus. It's not a complete cover even. That being said, when the best sounding part of your song is lifted from a classic, then you suck. It's one thing to take a certain beat or rhythm and twist it into your own kind of song, but taking a chorus and inserting it into your own song is just awkward.

Supertramp owns all.

[Getizzyback]

The SCOM Remix sucked.

Bigtime.

I will admit, I love the part, when Axl screams "eye , eye , eye , eye , eye , eye........"!

[shootingstar]

I was in the car with my sister yesterday and she was in control of the radio (booooo) so of course she's listening to her mainstream r&b/ hip hop shit and two songs in a row...were each renditions of older rock songs.

First there's Sean Kingston (he sings that annoying Beautiful Girl song that's on the radio every 5 and a half seconds) and I wasn't really listening until the chorus..."oh oh oh oh oh ohhh, you don't have to go- oh...." and i'm like THATS ZEPPELIN wtf! I got kindof pissed off, not exactly sure why.

Then the next song that came on was this crazy mix of Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama and Nelly's Country Grammar. I have to admit it sounded pretty cool.

Anyway...does it bother you that mainstream rap artists take other music and re-do it?

On one hand I think it can open up these narrow-minded teens to other great areas of music....but on the other hand I think it's just sad to hear such amazing music being dimmed down to such a meaningless state. And plus, whenever a song like that comes out on the radio, sure people listen to it and love it, but a matter of weeks later it's forgotten. Just like that Lil' Jon/ Eastside Boyz "Crazy Train" song....It was interesting but I strongly doubt that one paid any justice to Ozzy Osbourne.

Sorry this post is so scatter-brained but I felt the need to vent

What is typical is that mainstream listeners don´t even notice it and thats really annoying. I heard on song on a party this weekend.. I don´t know, I think it was this kingston(at least it´s some famous R&B guy from jamaica) and he had used the music from "stand by me" with Ben E. King. i asked the people there if they knew which song it REALLy was and no one couldn´t answer 'til I started to sing "stand by me" to the music.. then everybody ju..Aaaah.. Fucking mainstream retards

Edited August 6, 2007 by shootingstar

[shootingstar]

I hate that Gym Class Heroes use the "Take A Look At My Girlfriend" part in their Cupid In A Chokehold or whatever it is, I've seen lots of people going "they're excellent lyrics"

and I'm like DUDE IT'S SUPERTRAMP!!

No fucker in my whole goddamn shit hole town seems to know its a cover

I loved the original; now its ruined!

xDSGx

I know! That´s the annoying part of it all!! :devil:

[ffrankwhite]

just as taking the same 3 chords and rearranging them gives so new songs, so does this sampling sections of multiple songs and rearranging them gives you new songs dude. that is your shit, the rearranged order in which you've now put them, the talent it takes to mix them, the reinterpretation that you apply is directly akin to what the ramones did.

Sampling mutliple songs is just that...sampling existing songs.

I'm impressed with your studio trickery,wow you can "re-arrange" songs...very cool.Now learn how to play an instrument,pour your heart into your lyrics and impress me.

Scratching Stairway to Heaven back and forth on a turntable is proving nothing to me,other than the fact that you're destroying some perfectly good vinyl.

you dont just scratch it back and forth arbitrarily anymore than you dont just clang back and forth on a guitars strings back and forth arbitrarily, what do you think they do at mix master jams, theres timing, sequence, pace and rhythm involved. its not studio trickery because you dont just do it in a studio, they have like DJ battles where you gotta do it head-on, or in clubs (at least in the old days) where what some of those guys did was/is enormously difficult.

this instrument thing, y'know ok, thats ONE avenue of making music, but why limit yourself? thats such a snobby attitude, guitars, turntables they're just a means to making noise, ordered noise that is sequenced and THATS all. it doesnt take a genius to learn 3 chords anymore than it does for someone to pick up how to mix. now to get REAL good at either takes talent. guitars probably a touch harder but then the rhythms are enormously different so theres not a great deal of difference. besides, i dunno if thats the yardstick of talent dude, by that rationale, Mozart, Brahms et al are musically imperial, why are we wasting our time with Guns n Roses. and what make a heart any less poured into a set of lyrics when they DONT have a guitar behind it?

the definition of an instrument is a device that requires skill to use. co-join that with the word musical, what does that leave you with? a device with which to make music that requires skill to use. right, now get to some decks and see if you can do this and then talk to me about some skill...

this instrument snobbery is just tiresome. before now anvils, jugs, bottles, cola cans thrown in waste paper baskets, anvils, clapping hands have all been committing to record for the purpose of music. just because you prefer guitars, you cant just strip other avenues of creating music of their artistic merit dude, its just not true and not fair and very disrespectful to two generations worth of artists that put a lot of blood sweat and tears into making something of their own when they didnt have shit.

[BassLikeHot]

+

[Marky]

Some guy just released a song that has the piano part for Imagine in the background. Utter shite.

[Zint]

theres timing, sequence, pace and rhythm involved. its not studio trickery because you dont just do it in a studio, they have like DJ battles where you gotta do it head-on, or in clubs (at least in the old days) where what some of those guys did was/is enormously difficult.

I'm not questioning that.I recognize there is skill involved.But I find myself discussing a multitude of things at once with you.The topic of thread was recycled music.You are discussing an art form.

Yes there is skill involved,but...what they are presenting is interpretation-through-manipulation.....not creation.

They are working with existing media.

this instrument thing, y'know ok, thats ONE avenue of making music, but why limit yourself? thats such a snobby attitude, guitars, turntables they're just a means to making noise, ordered noise that is sequenced and THATS all.

Well,you're preaching that to the wrong guy.I'll give you but one example.For decades I've been a fan of a hometown band (that has a cult following world wide).They are called Nihilist Spasm Band...(look them up,they are all over the internet).

They started in the mid 60's and their first gig almost caused a local riot...it was not uncommon for them to get pelted with ash trays (to them it was the greatest compliment).

They made their own instruments,they played bicycle pumps,water pipes...they even put a hearing aid inside a kazoo and amplified it.They were all about deconstruction,noise,chaos and no boundaries.They were punk before it existed.

However...the difference to what you're talking about is...they made their OWN noise.They put poetry and personally honed lyrics to their wall of chaos.They put their own stamp on it.

They didn't spend a 40 year career reinterpreting Kashmir or Breakfast In America.

That's what I'm talking about.I can look at the beauty of a guy making sound with two crushed beer cans.If the guy has lyrics to his beautiful noise...and he raps,sings or has spoken word on top if it,and the theme is "I'm homeless and screwed up because my phys ed teacher abused me"...then I get it.I understand where he's coming from,the sound track coming from two beer cans works perfectly for me.

But if he's standing there pounding Sweet Child O Mine on two empty beer cans...he's not bringing anything to the table.He's interpreting through manipulation of existing material.

I'm not going to sing his praises as a misunderstood artist.

He's not creating a new song...and,again,that's what this thread is about.

and what make a heart any less poured into a set of lyrics when they DONT have a guitar behind it?

The key there is " a set of lyrics"...create something of you're own.Doesn't have to have a guitar behind it...but putting someone else's song behind your lyrics makes that so called artist look limited in their capabilities to me.If you have to cop somone else's tune to make your lyrics work,then you're failing as a musician.You are NOT creating a new song by putting new lyrics over existing melodies.

If a mixer records his own album,with the sole purpose of making his own statement when he mixes,you will never find me knocking that concept.It's his own sound,wall of noise or whatever...and if he should put lyrics to his own shit...more power to him.I'm down with that.

If you splash black,purple and yellow paint on a canvas and smear it around with your hands...then let it dry,frame it and title it "The Chaos That Is My Mind"...I'm going to appreciate what yourt statement is and get an idea of where you're coming from.

If you are going to take a print of the Mona Lisa and paint a goatee on it,frame it and hang it at a museum...then expect me to appreciate your art (or your art form) I'm going to call bullshit.

Edited August 6, 2007 by zint61

[ffrankwhite]

theres timing, sequence, pace and rhythm involved. its not studio trickery because you dont just do it in a studio, they have like DJ battles where you gotta do it head-on, or in clubs (at least in the old days) where what some of those guys did was/is enormously difficult.

I'm not questioning that.I recognize there is skill involved.But I find myself discussing a multitude of things at once with you.The topic of thread was recycled music.You are discussing an art form.

Yes there is skill involved,but...what they are presenting is interpretation-through-manipulation.....not creation.

They are working with existing media.

this instrument thing, y'know ok, thats ONE avenue of making music, but why limit yourself? thats such a snobby attitude, guitars, turntables they're just a means to making noise, ordered noise that is sequenced and THATS all.

Well,you're preaching that to the wrong guy.I'll give you but one example.For decades I've been a fan of a hometown band (that has a cult following world wide).They are called Nihilist Spasm Band...(look them up,they are all over the internet).

They started in the mid 60's and their first gig almost caused a local riot...it was not uncommon for them to get pelted with ash trays (to them it was the greatest compliment).

They made their own instruments,they played bicycle pumps,water pipes...they even put a hearing aid inside a kazoo and amplified it.They were all about deconstruction,noise,chaos and no boundaries.They were punk before it existed.

However...the difference to what you're talking about is...they made their OWN noise.They put poetry and personally honed lyrics to their wall of chaos.They put their own stamp on it.

They didn't spend a 40 year career reinterpreting Kashmir or Breakfast In America.

That's what I'm talking about.I can look at the beauty of a guy making sound with two crushed beer cans.If the guy has lyrics to his beautiful noise...and he raps,sings or has spoken word on top if it,and the theme is "I'm homeless and screwed up because my phys ed teacher abused me"...then I get it.I understand where he's coming from,the sound track coming from two beer cans works perfectly for me.

But if he's standing there pounding Sweet Child O Mine on two empty beer cans...he's not bringing anything to the table.He's interpreting through manipulation of existing material.

I'm not going to sing his praises as a misunderstood artist.

He's not creating a new song...and,again,that's what this thread is about.

and what make a heart any less poured into a set of lyrics when they DONT have a guitar behind it?

The key there is " a set of lyrics"...create something of you're own.Doesn't have to have a guitar behind it...but putting someone else's song behind your lyrics makes that so called artist look limited in their capabilities to me.If you have to cop somone else's tune to make your lyrics work,then you're failing as a musician.You are NOT creating a new song by putting new lyrics over existing melodies.

If a mixer records his own album,with the sole purpose of making his own statement when he mixes,you will never find me knocking that concept.It's his own sound,wall of noise or whatever...and if he should put lyrics to his own shit...more power to him.I'm down with that.

If you splash black,purple and yellow paint on a canvas and smear it around with your hands...then let it dry,frame it and title it "The Chaos That Is My Mind"...I'm going to appreciate what yourt statement is and get an idea of where you're coming from.

If you are going to take a print of the Mona Lisa and paint a goatee on it,frame it and hang it at a museum...then expect me to appreciate your art (or your art form) I'm going to call bullshit.

i understand what you mean actually and you're entitled to your opinion but consider this. isnt this the times we're living in? i mean, post modernism right, everythings been done (not that i necessarily subscribe to that ideal i think its a very lazy concept on the whole but its one possible take on the subject) and the beauty of our times or at least a part of our times (cuz who knows whats ahead, something originals ALWAYS around the corner) that you take the old and make something new and fresh out of it? its economy is the most unobscene sense of the word dude, because, in the best cases, the songs and mixed and flipped SO well that its seamless, there might be bits of 8 or so songs with an altered beat being interchanged to a point where you can only recognise enough to point out what 3 of them actually are and the end result, the whole package is this totally new sound. i agree with you to a point where, i dunno if you ever saw Puffy and Jimmy Page doing some weird song where its the tune to kashmir with just Puff spittin over it, THAT i dont really...like but i wont say i disagree with because hey, someone might like it. its the times man and people accept it everywhere as par for the course except for in hip hop.

example, Tarantino movies, there are great cross-sections of out and out forgery in those movies that i could list for you until tommorow yet they're all lauded as great and cool and everything, why is that? he steals from everywhere, spaghetti westerns, thriller, film noir, blaxploitation, grindhouse and he's open about it, he even likened the concept to hip hop a couple of times and, at least in the case of reservoir dogs which i LOVE as a movie, entire set pieces and scenes and shots and the whole storyline is stolen, outright stolen from City On Fire by Ringo Lam.

its in almost every walk of our life and thats not to say that we should accept a kind of forgery because thats just complacent but if something fresh new and original can be produced from it then why should anybody be denied it man? you're right in many ways or i agree with you in many ways but...i dunno, theres a lot there that you can't cancel out on the basis of a few that arent very good at it and unfortunately, who get all the exposure. kind of like the difference between punk and new wave.

btw Nihilist Spasm Band sound fucking incredible! do they got albums out or...?

and on the Mona Lisa point, i think that defacing has its merits too. isnt that was punk was going to do to rock n roll? destroy it all and start again (or so certain punks said). i'll give you an example, somewhere in london, famous spot, i forget where about 10 plus years ago there was some god knows what going down and england woke up to find this REALLY like...this monumental statue of Winston Churchill and someone had cut a fresh strip of lawn and placed it on his head like a mohawk and like, as english tabloids do, fleet street was up in arms for weeks to come shivering at the prospect of the louts they produced but...its such a great statement, i love it, theres something to that thats...astute. some of the greatest statements in the world, artistic or otherwise were defacements, look at Jamie Reids take on that famous picture of Queen Elizabeth that served for the cover for the god save the queen single. i could go on and i feel like if i did it'd make my point better because as you've pointed out before i produce diatribes or rants but...its only because maybe i dont know how to make a point so i have to overkill but...i hope i've gone some way towards explaining myself.

Edited August 6, 2007 by ffrankwhite

[zosopage73]

Considering Led Zeppelin were probably the biggest rip-off offenders i've ever seen,with there first album is almost all uncredited covers or shameless ripoffs, like the main riff in dazed and confused, or even things like you shook me being done less then year early by Jeff Beck on truth, but still being credited to them to page. And lets not get into things like the lemon song and trampeled underfoot *cough*superstition by stevie wonder*cough* (not to say that i dont love led zeppelin), it would be pointless to start yelling about covers and rip offs in todays music. In the 60's covers and ripoffs were alot more common. You know house of the rising sun by the animals? Bob Dylan did it before after hearing someone else do, and that person did it after hearing it as a tradition song. Most of the byrds first 2 albums are bob dylan songs, and lets not even mention all the people ripping off the beatles. So unless it's just a really blatent example of 'lets remove the vocals and sing something new over top and not give the accual artists credit (the 2 that I can remember making me angry were a version of wont get fooled again by the who, but it had a girl singing avril lavinge im a suburban rich kid by no one likes me cause I complain alot lyrics over top insted, and some cover where they 'sampled' stand by me by the drifters but just rap over top. weak) let them have fun and let possibly produce good music. Aint my cup of tea, by im sure mine isent like most other kids of today. Oh, and listen to early public enemy for some sampling, hip hop and production done right. Chuck D + Flavor Flav + Bomb squad production = sonic bliss.

[New Rose]

Holy shit that was awesome!!

Can you recommend some songs?

[kevdo242]

Some guy just released a song that has the piano part for Imagine in the background. Utter shite.

Didn't Oasis do that, for an intro?

[GNR'R]

The SCOM Remix sucked.

Bigtime.

I will admit, I love the part, when Axl screams "eye , eye , eye , eye , eye , eye........"!

Ditto.

[Marky]

Some guy just released a song that has the piano part for Imagine in the background. Utter shite.

Didn't Oasis do that, for an intro?

Yes, but that was barely 15 seconds long, and as you said, for the intro. It was also rerecorded by the band itself, and without the little pattern at the end of the F chord, but this guy used the original JL recording for the whole song.

Besides, Noel pays most people he rips off.

[BassLikeHot]

Holy shit that was awesome!!

Can you recommend some songs?

It's trip-hop music and it's fucking attractive. Glory Box is just. Then