PhillyGuy22

I guess Sherlock4444 didn't read my second post where I explained why I've put more then one post.

I also guess Sherlock4444 has mistaken my "looking to not be judged as an animal" as "looking to pass judgement on others".  I wonder how Sherlock4444 thinks I'm judging.

Mr_Sparkle, you are correct; it's not right.  Never said it was.  Just that its understandable.  By the way, are you serious that you never lost control and, say, punched a wall or something?  If you are, I find that hard to believe.

Mr_Sparkle, you speak your words and fill them with malice because they are the quickest and easiest way to strike back at me or any one else with conflicting views.

I am not saying concert riots aren't wrong, I'm saying they are understandable.  Have you ever thought about whats wrong that you do?  Profanity, masterbation, glutiny, lying, theft, violence, blasphamy, murder, jelousy, permisquity, all are wrong.  The list could be much longer if I felt like it.  You can't tell me that you've never done anything on that list (not that you did all of them).  You have done wrong, and you've had your reasons.  You must have done something wrong for the wrong reason because you're human.  Humans are creatures of flesh and blood.

..."If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her"  John 8:7

Mr_Sparkle, you seem to miss understand my referal to historically important riots.  I did not intend to imply that riots over concerts and riots over political issuses have no differences.  Political riots naturally have much more justifacation then concert riots as well as being much less trivial.  The riots caused by the Rodney King verdit must have had an incrediable impact on future court decisions, were as the riot in Philadelphia over Guns and Roses had the largest impact of ending the tour Axl Rose and Buckethead that wasn't even selling out its concerts at smaller venues.  I in no way intended to imply that a concert riot has the same moral ground as a riot against communist dictatorships or similar situations.

However, you clearly don't grasp the emotion behind concert riots or even the irony in your own words.  Such riots are because people get angry and try in the most convient and immediate way possible to get revenge.  The irony in you words comes from such statements as:

NO REASON TO RIOT OVER A FU*KING CONCERT. YOU ARE AN ANIMAL AND SHOULD BE PUT TO SLEEP.

That statement is filled with anger and malice and want of revenge.  You feel wronged by the actions of Philadelphia fans and wish to cause them harm, just as the Philadelphia fans felt wronged by Guns and Roses and try to cause them harm.  You are closer to what you hate then you will admit.

By the way, another droplet of irony I found was that you curse and call Philly people animals, which includes me.  I however have not resorted to name calling and only cursed once in this forum but it wasn't in a spitefull maner.

If you want to call people who riot at concerts animals, fine, thats your opinion but do not single out Philly.  Point the finger at all who fall short of your expectations and your personal glory.

Since silverrose721 practically asked for a comment on his "Axl doesn't have to do this" statement, I'll make one now.  You are right.  Axl, when its all said and done, doesn't have to go on tour.  I don't think though that he did it for his fans.  I say this because I know how nutorious his ego is and I believe he thought he could pull it off, become king of the world again, and show up all his old band mates once and for all.  Another reason I find it hard to believe Axl went on tour again for his fans is how he has treated his fans.  He has made his fans wait until he was good and ready, he has let his fans down by leaving them, and he has even assaulted a fan for video tapping something he shouldn't have.  I just don't believe Axl has the fans on his mind that much.

P.S. Those pictures do accurately depick the aftermath of the riot.  Most of the damage was on the floor, being knocked over folding chairs, lots of litter, and damaged electircal equipment (the worst of it).

I guess you didn't read the part where I stated that St. Louis, Montreal, Venezuela, Vancouver, and New York have had riots over concerts.  If there is a major city you think it's full of animals, do a search on Yahoo! for yourcityname +riots +concerts.  I'm sure you'll find something stupid that people did in your own area.

As for fans not being smart and rioting... you must not understand the concept of a riot.  Nobody riots because its a smart thing to do.  They riot because they are upset and angry over some recent event.  Remember the LA riots over the Rodney King virdict?  That lasted for days!  That is animalistic.  Riot, sleep, riot somemore.  It was chaos and uncontrolable.  Some major events where riots: Teaniman Square (however its spelled) and even the Boston Tea Party.

Riots happen, get over it.

I didn't expect to be back to this forum.  I also didn't expect to hear nothing offical from Guns and Roses for so long either.  What I see here I don't really like.  I see alot of people trying to say Philadelphia is nothing but animals and trying to defend Axl Rose.  I thought I'd so you people some facts that I dug up on the internet that you too can find if you have the will to.

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I'm gonna start with the "Philly fans are animals" comment.  Thats made with the reasons of either: because they rioted, or because the riot was so bad.

Well, as you can see from the examples I found below, St. Louis, Montreal, Venezuela, and Vancouver all rioted because of Guns and Roses actions.  So that means Philly fans aren't alone in rioting.

As for the severity of the concert, only 15 people where injured and only five went to a hospital.  Compare that to the 70 hurt in St. Louis, 1991, and you'll see how docile the Philly riot was.  What about property damage to the First Union Center?  Well, according to the Sunday edition of "The Philadelphia Inquirer" (which is where I got the injury report), "Damage to the arena was minimal, and preparations for the next event, a Flyers game, went off without a hitch."

By the way, New York people seem to be the leaders of the anti-Philly statements.  Like New York doesn't riot. Ha!  In August of 1983, a riot occured after a Diana Ross concert in Central Park.  Check out http://www.natvan.com/national-vanguard/as.../thatslife.html for more information on it New York.  

Philly fans didn't cause enough damage to be singled out and called "animals".

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Some people would like to defend Axl Rose, which is wrong.  Some people say "Axl is Axl and will be irresponsible.  Accept it."  Axl Rose is a performer.  His job is to entertain people.  If you had a job and showed up late to work an hour late on a regular basis or just didn't show up at all, you would be fired.  Plain and simple.  "When ya got a job to do ya gotta do it well..."  --Live and Let Die.  You may say Axl is a rock star, he has the power to do what he wants to.  Axl Rose is not the super star he once was, he won't be able to get away with anymore.  And has he ever heard the pharse that goes something like "With great power comes great responsiblity"?  Its more then just a quote from Spiderman you know.  Not being responsible is not a valid excuse, no matter who you are.

Another excuse for Axl Rose is that he wasn't going to go on stage to a booing crowd.  Granted, neither would I.  Seeing as how Axl wasn't even in the city though, that doesn't matter.  The newpaper had this to say: "The band, with the exception of Rose, was still lodged at the Ritz Carlton in Center City yesterday [saturday, Dec 7] afternoon.  As of last night, Rose had still not checked in.  A source at the First Union Center said speculation was that Rose had stayed in his New York hotel room to watch a basketball game."  That blows the "booing crowd" excuse out the window.

So, maybe Axl Rose really was sick.  Maybe.  If he was though, don't you think someone should have made an effort to notify the crowd?  No matter what the sickness, no matter what the illness, you have some kind of warning.  I find it hard to belive Axl was walking to the airplain, collapsed in pain, and the band in Philadelphia didn't know anything was wrong until the airplain arrived without Axl on board.  Be realistic.

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If you've read this far, thank you.  I hope I've made an impack.

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A riot occured in 1991 at the Riverport Amphitheatre in Maryland Heights, just outside St. Louis from a canceled Guns and Roses concert.  Axel Rose was found guilty of assault charges because of his own actions during that concert.  About 70 people where hurt at that riot.

August 8 1992 James Hetfield of Metallica burned by a pyro mishap at Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Canada. Riot ensues when "Guns ‘N Roses" frontman Axl Rose leaves stage.  The riot then spilled out onto the streets and into the surrounding area.

1992, Colombia:

Forced to leave half their crew and equipment behind in Venezuela when military coup closed the capital city's airport; consequently had to cancel one of two shows in Colombia. A minor riot ensued when ticket-holding fans for the show tried to get into the second. Eventually dispersed by police.

Vancouver, British Columbia, rioted when Axl Rose couldn't make the opening concert for this very tour.

Newspaper source: www.philly.com

First off, don't bother replying directly to me, I'm only making a one time post and won't be back to check it.  I only want to speak my peace.

I was at the concert from 7:30 until 11:30.  I know what went on.

Shortly after 7:30, a band called something like "Cassy" {{I apologize for not getting the name correct, they were good in my opinion.}} played for close to an hour.  After a wait of about 20 or 30 minutes, Mix Master Mike began his act.  He played about an hour and ended between 9:30 and 9:45.  He did not endear himself to the crowd.  {{Does a D.J. really belong at a rock and roll concert anyway?  Seriously!}}  He played a few songs that got the crowd interested but then kind of slaughtered those very same songs.  {{I actually stood out in the hall for sometime to avoid his act.}}  The crowd was not enjoying Mix Master Mike very much but he did his job: using up time and getting the crowd pumped for Guns and Roses.

Now for when things really go down hill.

At 10:00 the concesion stands where closed; no beer{{I'm not one of the drunks or even one of the pot heads if thats what you're thinking}}, no pretzels, nothing!  For about the next half hour, the crowd grew impatent and chanting became worse and worse.  It however did not start off bad.  The crowd would boo every time a Rob Zombie song would end and the lights did not dim for the main act.  It was around 10:30 people began to throw things, mostly from the upper levels.  {{Unfortunately, I was on the lower level were most of the stuff would lose its force and fall.}}  The stage lights flickered two different times and the crowd would cheer wildly for a few seconds then would quickly change to boos.  The crowd still wanted Guns and Roses.  At about 10:45 the event staff began to pack up the equipment quitely.  Some of the crowd noticed the electric equipment in the middle of the floor covered up and began to leave.  It was about 11:00 went the staff finally annouced the show was cancelled, giving only "an illness in the band" as a reason.  Keep in mind, this is 20,000 Guns and Roses fans, from Philly, without food or drink for an hour, without entertainment for an hour and a half, without Guns and Roses for 10 years, deeply disappointed.  A roit happened.  {{Go figure.}}

I saw many things thrown; some chairs from the floor area, many cups and such from the upper level, and even some small tables from the upper level onto empty seats.  I saw the floor chairs knocked over, which wasn't too hard since whole rows went over at once.  I saw chairs being ripped into and railings destroyed. {{I myself threw some dropped rost beef, tipped over a row of chairs, and broke off two railings.}}

Outside wasn't a whole lot better.  I saw plastic cases for binocullars kept under the seats in the upper levels scattered like newspaper on a windy day.  One case had acctually been burned.  I saw a couple who had the nuts off their wheels stolen and a tire slashed.  {{I stopped and spoke with them and felt sorry I could not help them.  I hope they got home alright.}}  I saw a group of men walking off with seat cushions and a poster from the laddies bathroom.

These 20,000 fans were not happy and wanted to vent.  {{Personally, I wanted Guns and Roses to pick up the tab for any damage I caused.}}  Don't get me wrong, that riot was illegal and dangerous.  However, that riot was also avoidable with a little fore sight of Guns and Roses.  An explanation, perferably by Axel Rose himself {{I wouldn't have wanted to come out on stage by 10:30 myself if I where him.}} would have most likely lessened the severity of this riot if not eliminate it entirely.

Afterwards I heard such things as "Guns and Roses sat courtside at the Lakers game in New York" and "The cops showed up 20 minutes after the riot even though they where called before the cancelation".

The crowd was irresponsilbe, as humanity tends to be.

Guns and Roses was irresponsible, as Axel Rose tends to be.

Even the police where irresponsible, as government tends to be.

I look at what could have been done and how the riot could have been stopped.  I see only a few people who could have made a difference.  No indiviual in that crowd could have swayed the mob.  No low level event staff could have made a decision to annouce the cancelation earlier.  Only Guns and Roses, and those who held control over those procedings that night, could have made any difference.

{{I'm sorry Axel Rose, but you F'ed up.}}

WHEN YA GOT A JOB TO DO YA GOT TO DO IT WELL

YOU GOT TO GIVE THE OTHER FELLA HELL

---Axel Rose, "Live and Let Die", "Use Your Illusion 1" 1973