GabrielsChains

First off, wanted to say real quick that nobody on this board is happier about today's turn of events than me; that my worst fears may not actually be true is SO encouraging as a fan, I cannot even tell you.

However, looking at this board, which seems to be almost overflowing with love, I would caution everyone to not let themselves get carried away. We feel like we have had a direct influence on Axl, yes, but let's not forget this important sentence from Merck's gameplan email, regarding how they should announce the release date:

The note will be most effective if it comes from Axl as he will then be seen as the good guy who is giving people the information they want.

Say what you will about Merck, but he certainly has known how to play the Guns fans -- because here we are, celebrating Axl for his great "intervention", for righting the floundering ship, and making everything okay.

For giving us the information that we want.

Though the new release date is promising and exciting, make no mistake my friends -- this letter from Axl is as much of a manipulation and a con as anything else this last year. Yes, it makes us feel good, and makes us feel that Axl listens to us, but always remember: the idea for the letter came from Merck, not from Axl. And that at any point during this year, if Axl had really wanted to comment on the state of everything, when fans were getting frustrated and furious, he could have done so.

He's only doing so know because he knows it won't effect ticket sales for the L.A. shows, and then they're cancelling the rest of the tour.

Don't get me wrong folks -- I have the night of March 5th already calendered off to go to my local Virgin Megastore and pick up my copy of CD -- but let's take everything with a grain of salt, shall we?

Guys, it's true. We got played.

After the 2002 debacle, Axl and co. knew that the only way they could get fans out of their houses and into arenas -- the only way they could overcome all the ill will that Axl had earned -- was to dangle the promise of Axl FINALLY coming through... this time.

That's why the leaks came out when they did (as more than one poster h as pointed out, leaks of the very same songs the band has been playing live). That's why the tours platformed the way the did, from small to large... it's all been about making the European tour and this U.S. tour big moneymakers.

That's all.

What's depressing to me isn't the fact that Axl has lied yet again, or that he's basically said Fuck You to all of us, the fans, who have given him the benefit of the doubt time and time again. What concerns me is what this says of his future plans.

See, Axl may be crazy, but he's not stupid. Merck certainly isn't either. They both know that once it sinks it with everybody that there will be no record this year, the backlash will be HUGE. In terms of a new tour, pretty much insurmountable. The story of Axl will have gone from an amusing cautionary to an outright, laughable joke.

A joke that nobody would ever be able to support again, ever. Not in a wide scale, in the scope this band needs to, to survive.

You see, the fact that Axl is raping us all so casually this time around basically reveals that not only is CD not coming out now, but it is NEVER going to come out, and he has no intention of it ever coming out. Right now he's taking his last licks, cashing in while the cashing is good, and then I doubt we'll see him again; he'll retire, with his psychosis and AFD royalties pouring in, and never be heard from again.

Because that's who Axl is now. A coward, who preys on the ignorance and hope of the people that support him.

Which is the real tragedy -- because he, at one time, was a courageous artist. Somebody who inspired a lot of people, myself included. No I doubt we'll ever get to hear the songs he's been working on for so long.

Or maybe we already have heard the results of all these years of work. Maybe that's it. Maybe he's been hiding that his creative gas tank ran dry a long time ago.

I don't know. We'll never know. Thanks to Axl, all we'll ever be left with is questions.

Not only should we download the record, I think we should kick Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in the nuts when they come into our living rooms as well.

But what if they are wearing cups, or know Karate?

I would then just run them over with my flying car.

Not only should we download the record, I think we should kick Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in the nuts when they come into our living rooms as well.

Good for you cupcakes, you just got the attention you so desperately want.

Well it's not OUR fault that, "GN'R Fans Take It In The Rear, Ask For More" wasn't as appealing a headline.

Sweet, I'm famous.

Guys, I've got it. It was all so clear.

Here's what's going to happen:

1. The tour ends. Nothing is mentioned about CD.

2. Axl disappears again. Fans gets upset and cry because they realize they were betrayed.

3. AXL DIES.

now here's where we get interesting. If Axl is truly ROCK N' ROLL and "do it his own way" like I think he is, then he's going to FAKE HIS OWN DEATH after this tour. It will either be a suicide a la Kurt Cobain, or a drug overdose a la Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin.

If he's really thinking outside the box, he may fake hang himself while masturbating, just so he can do the whole Michael Hutchence thing. But I don't really think that's his style.

4. After the funeral, Axl's estate FINDS the finished CD record.

5. It is released.

6. As A Nation Mourns, their hearts are lifted to the joyous sounds of "Better", "Rhiad", "There Was a Time", and the previously unmentioned track, "The Really Shouldn'tve Hung Myself While Jerkin It Blues".

7. Axl is proclaimed a genius.

8. Axl lives in isolation in some tropical locale, getting all the botox surgery and dreadlocks he wants so he'll never be recognized.

I mean, CLEARLY this is what he was planning early on around 2000 when he started looking all fucking wierd. But for some reason, he decided to delay his plan.

Man, the more I think about it, Axl is a TOTAL FUCKING GENIUS for thinking of this awesome plan! I can't wait until he dies and I get to hear his awesome record!

You really have an extraordinarily large amount of extra time on your hands, don't you?

I mean you come here - to a GNR fan forum - where you write post after post dissing the band that everybody comes here to talk about. And then - when fans are already feeling down because of the cancellation - you spend all your time creating this bizarre response that ends with you saying you can't wait for the lead singer to die.

Please - get a life.

As for everybody else - let's wait and hear what the band has to say about the reason for the cancellation before jumping to conclusions. In the meantime, stay away from open windows on high floors please.

Let's be fair Madison. I dis a band that I love because the singer is acting out of control. Why on earth would I be here if I wasn't a fan (albeit one who is very disappointed with current happenings?)

I created my bizarre post as an utterly bizarre, and stupidly funny alternative to all the ledge-jumping that was happening. A distraction, if you will. That was why I created a separate thread for it; by merging it back into this thread, which is the perogative of any mod on any board, it took away any "stupid fun" element from the post (and yes, there would be some that found it funny).

Do you really think I was saying I hoped Axl died? Do you really think I think my theory was true? You know it was just simply farce.

And as for too much time on my hands -- you got me there. The job gets quiet this time of year.

Guys, I've got it. It was all so clear.

Here's what's going to happen:

1. The tour ends. Nothing is mentioned about CD.

2. Axl disappears again. Fans gets upset and cry because they realize they were betrayed.

3. AXL DIES.

now here's where we get interesting. If Axl is truly ROCK N' ROLL and "do it his own way" like I think he is, then he's going to FAKE HIS OWN DEATH after this tour. It will either be a suicide a la Kurt Cobain, or a drug overdose a la Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin.

If he's really thinking outside the box, he may fake hang himself while masturbating, just so he can do the whole Michael Hutchence thing. But I don't really think that's his style.

4. After the funeral, Axl's estate FINDS the finished CD record.

5. It is released.

6. As A Nation Mourns, their hearts are lifted to the joyous sounds of "Better", "Rhiad", "There Was a Time", and the previously unmentioned track, "The Really Shouldn'tve Hung Myself While Jerkin It Blues".

7. Axl is proclaimed a genius.

8. Axl lives in isolation in some tropical locale, getting all the botox surgery and dreadlocks he wants so he'll never be recognized.

I mean, CLEARLY this is what he was planning early on around 2000 when he started looking all fucking wierd. But for some reason, he decided to delay his plan.

Man, the more I think about it, Axl is a TOTAL FUCKING GENIUS for thinking of this awesome plan! I can't wait until he dies and I get to hear his awesome record!

http://www.iorr.org/news.htm

Oct 30: Beacon show tomorrow rescheduled for Wednesday

The Rolling Stones have been forced to move their Tuesday, October 31st performance at the Beacon Theatre to Wednesday, November 1st. Following doctor’s advice, Mick Jagger has been ordered to rest his voice. All tickets for the October 31 show will be honored on November 1. Show time will remains at 8pm. This is fresh from a press release received shortly before ticket pickup at the Beacon ended 8pm today. See updated list of IORR Fall Tour dates.

So I guess they are pathetic too? It happens. Just come down off the ledge. On second thought, just fucking jump.

Come ON Gunzen. There is a UNIVERSE of difference between pushing a show a single night for health reasons, and outright CANCELLING a show because of poor ticket sales.

Notice how none of these cancelled GN'R shows have makeup dates to make sure the fans are taken care of? That's the difference.

And that's why the Stones are pros. And Axl has become a court jester.

Where are there two Axls on this picutre:

(look below the main one).

HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Worst Photoshopping Ever.

Well, I guess they needed to get a picture up with Axl in a Christ pose to soften the fan reaction.

Oh god that's great!

I've just noticed something - look at his neck!

Are you fucking kidding me? It's just the video screen behind him that multiplies him...

does axl look skinnier or is that just me?

actually i think that may be the monitor. lookit the "other axl"s watch. lookit the real axl' swatch. the same.

There's a "lens flare" from the light behind his left arm. Him standing in front of a monitor wouldn't add this effect. A flare was added in photoshop to give the impression he was actually standing in front of the drum riser here.

Look at the complete lack of any type of video artifacting in the background image. That is because it's a blown up picture, not a 'monitor'.

Look at the rotation of his right hand. It's different from foreground to background.

And lastly, look at the rings on the last two fingers of his right hand. They're different in the two images.

lol, you're reading way too much into this. It's NOT photoshopped. The monitor would look exactly like that behind him. A monitor can easily add such a lighty effect in a dark area. You can't tell if there's video artifacting or not, the background is too blurry, you cannot say for sure. But what I do know is that the background is overly bright and the colors and lightness behave in a way of a monitor. His hand looks different on the monitor because it was, of course, filmed from a different angle than where the actual pic was taken. The ring on his hand looks different for the same reasons - lighting, which looks different from a different angle, especially when it's on monitor screen. This coming from a guy who's studying audiovisual stuff and has had it as a serious hobby for 10 years.

And lastly, and most importantly, there is no reason on earth to photoshop this pic like that.

I think there's a reason it's been just a "hobby" for you, friend.

Take it from someone that's worked in the film industry for 15 years. Now go study some more.

Where are there two Axls on this picutre:

(look below the main one).

HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Worst Photoshopping Ever.

Well, I guess they needed to get a picture up with Axl in a Christ pose to soften the fan reaction.

Oh god that's great!

I've just noticed something - look at his neck!

Are you fucking kidding me? It's just the video screen behind him that multiplies him...

does axl look skinnier or is that just me?

actually i think that may be the monitor. lookit the "other axl"s watch. lookit the real axl' swatch. the same.

There's a "lens flare" from the light behind his left arm. Him standing in front of a monitor wouldn't add this effect. A flare was added in photoshop to give the impression he was actually standing in front of the drum riser here.

Look at the complete lack of any type of video artifacting in the background image. That is because it's a blown up picture, not a 'monitor'.

Look at the rotation of his right hand. It's different from foreground to background.

And lastly, look at the rings on the last two fingers of his right hand. They're different in the two images.

Where are there two Axls on this picutre:

(look below the main one).

HAHAHAHAHAHHA. Worst Photoshopping Ever.

Well, I guess they needed to get a picture up with Axl in a Christ pose to soften the fan reaction.

[

You've been a big supporter of Axl on this board even in the face of folks slamming the current situation, Gunzen; just curious -- does this change your opinion of the situation and of Axl? ( I admit, a lot of my frustration comes from getting screwed over after buying tickets to the 2002 L.A. show that never happened ).

Okay, I have posted pix on his forum of My 2002 Arco Arena tix from that cancelled show on Dec 30, 2002. I got screwed on that one too.

You want my answer, it sucks. I think everyone who said he should have gutted it out is right. I am strong supporter of this band, but they did drop the ball here assuming we are guessing right. And that is yet to be decided.

As fas as my opinon, nope, cause when I bought the tickets to the 9/21 show in SF there was a two hour delay getting in, and we didnt know then until we saw him if he was gonna be there for that. I just dont expect shit, I pay the money, if he shows up, great! If not, I say "shit" and realize that I am dealing with Axl Rose. I wouldnt depend on him to give me aride to the airport. He has proven that.

So I just dont expect anything. So , my opinon hasnt changed, and I still suppot him, but he fucked up here probobly, and I just feel bad for people whose only chance to see GNR was tonight.

Fair enough?

Great answer man - I wasn't looking to stir shit; was actually just curious.

I had the same experience myself 5/12 at Hammerstein. The entire delay getting in, we were just wondering, "is the guy really gonna show?" And when he did, it was fucking amazing. One of the best shows I've seen.

But that's before all this other b.s., and the conclusions I've drawn from it -- what sucks is that I'm too pissed off now to even enjoy seeing them anymore; I declined tickets to the L.A. show on Sunday because I felt like I'd be letting myself get conned again, you know?

It actually really bums me out. Thanks for taking the time to answer, G.

you are right, I think he should have....I just dont think the tour is cancelled. That is all I am saying, I had a huge night planned, it sucks, but you hace to see this arena, it is HUGE it would look rediculous, maybe that is why?

It doesn't matter how big or small the place is -- the man put tickets on sale for his band to play. Folks, like you Gunzen, bought them. That is a contract that he broke. He OWED YOU a concert. To all the folks that say Axl doesn't owe anybody anything, WRONG. People paid money. He didn't live up to his end. He owed these folks in Fresno a show.

You've been a big supporter of Axl on this board even in the face of folks slamming the current situation, Gunzen; just curious -- does this change your opinion of the situation and of Axl? ( I admit, a lot of my frustration comes from getting screwed over after buying tickets to the 2002 L.A. show that never happened ).

On CD.com they are saying it's illness.

Is this true?

It is true. The ticketbuyers in Fresno are feeling ill.

Bad case of Axlitis going around in small markets. Hopefully they get it quarantined before it spreads to larger cities like the plague...

It is illness. Axl got a case of frostbite because it was so cold in Fresno, didn't you hear?

I think the tour is over...

Axl is pissed off cause CD won't be released due to legal issues.. it's probably trouble reaching agreements with musicians that play on the songs... maybe Buckethead is suing...

Axl is pissed off that people aren't all on board with his program. Attendence is dipping, the media has turned antagonistic, and the bloom is off the 06 Axl Rose as far as most people go.

What he won't acknowledge is that this has happened because he has promised Chinese Democracy and not delivered.

It's not rocket science.

There is no record company conspiracy. There is only Axl.

The thing that concerns me is that you have Axl walking off stage last night before Paradise City and now you have the cancellation of tomorrow's show. Something is going terribly, terribly wrong..

I tend to agree. The only thing that comes to mind is his comment last night about the forthcoming album, and how he's not allowed to talk about it. Seemed like a shot at the record company. Maybe yesterday he got word that 2006 was once and for all definitely not going to happen; the walkout and cancellation is possibly Axl sending a message that this is his show to run, not Geffen's/Universal's.

I don't know, it's just a guess. I don't know if I really believe that Axl wants this out and the record company is holding it up, but his comment last night seems to suggest that.

His comment was apparently something to the effect of "that was from our forthcoming album, which I've learned I'm not supposed to talk about."

You could read that as an inference about some nefarious hold Universal/Geffen has over him, and them holding the record back.

Or you could realize that he's simpy commenting on the MASSIVE amount of backlash he's receiving currently because he promised the album and didn't deliver.

It wasn't "This is from our album... our album that i can't tell you about! *nudge nudge wink wink*"

It was, "This is from our album... the record for which I'll never give a release date again because the fans are finally pissed at me for missing it this time."

there was too many california shows to begin with, it was setup for cancellations to begin with

Tell that to Nine Inch Nails, pebbles, who had an almost identical early "warm up tour", followed by a straight up smaller venue tour (same number of California stops, all of which sold out), followed by an amphitheatre-size tour 6 months later (once again, same number of California stops, all of which sold out).

Oh, but Nine Inch Nails actually had a record, didn't they?

There is only one reason this is happening.

They didn't even bother to make a bullshit excuse this time? They're just going with "eat shit, buy a ticket for a different show?"

I'm sorry, but they are a bunch of LYING MOTHERFUCKERS. This shit isn't selling because of THEIR LIES ABOUT THE ALBUM.

I'm fucking embarassed to be a Guns fan.

He's a legend? Riding Cobain's shotgun blood-soaked coattails and managing to hit yourself in the head with your own bass does not a "legend" make.

You're serious, right?

His band ended because the driving creative force killed himself. He's gone on to form solo projects and continued to write, record and release music. He's not exclusively covering Nirvana songs every night. And it's not like he's even that famous any more.

Meanwhile, Axl ran off everyone in his band, but carried on for fifteen years without releasing his "revolutionary" album and pretty much trading on the songs his old musicians wrote.

Coat tails anyone? I'm not a fan of Krist, but shit... I respect him as an artist. He's gone on and continued to create.

That post was so delusional, that I'll let it speak for itself. One's a legend and an icon, the other spells Kris with a "T".

No, one guy's a legend. One guy's a musician.

Not arguing whether Krist is a musician or not(he is)... just arguing he's not a "legend" like the first guy said.

I don't think he's a legend either. I'd be surprised if he considered himself a legend. He just seems like a guy who enjoys making music for a living.

Axl should make some music. That'd be awesome.

Axl doesn't need to make any music because he already IS a legend. DUH.

wtf has this to do with anything?

I believe he's going for a "It's better to burn out than to fade away" type of thing.

Or more appropriately, a "It's better to burn out than to go on a Greatest Hits County Fair Tour with a bunch of hired musicians while claiming it's your original band until the fans fade away" type of thing.

Jeez, I dunno guys... Maybe he and Merck just realized that people were onto their "Selling Concerts On the Promise Of Chinese Democracy Even Though There Is No Chinese Democracy Coming Out" schtick (and as always, realizing it about 3 months after the fact), and decided to throw everybody a bone to keep the tour from dying.

Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one. But it sure is great to see how desperate everyone is -- Axl winds you up and you just go-go-go. "OMG THIS MUST BE IT CHINESE DEMOCRACY IS NOW I KNOW BECAUSE HE SAID THE SAME VAGUE WORDING AS THE HARLEY AD!!! !LOL!!!!!!!"

Another know-it-all

FYI... GNR is doing better then Aerosmith and Motley Crue... combined on selling tickets.

Not too shabby.

I'm not a know-it-all, Matt, just a Knows-More-Than-You.

That's pretty neato keen info about them doing better than Aerosmith or Motley Crue. I bet they're doing better than Warrant and Winger, too. They're also playing venues that they're not selling out and fans are growing disgruntled.

What's your point?

a stement should be the least we get.

We will get nothing, and yet, most of this board's members will defend that nothing.

All of you "what did you expect" people are not thinking big picture.

You know what MOST PEOPLE "expect"? Not this.

And spare how "rock n roll" this all is. Its fucking stupid and short sighted. He is not winning any people over with this. He's only hurting himself. That is undeniable.

Furthermore, a 45 year old man singing his old band's songs with a bunch of payroll musicians (however great they may be) is NOT "rock n' roll" either. It is business -- nothing more, and nothing less.