2000intentions

You believe they don't have egos? You believe they appreciate?

I think Robin and Richard could handle the guitar duties by themselves. Both of them play lead. I liked Richard's solos on "Think About You," "Rocket Queen" and "November Rain." And he's a great rhythm guitarist. Robin's solos on the Appetite songs and new material were excellent. The only ones he ran into trouble with are "Live And Let Die" and "November Rain."

I'm guessing they need a 3rd guitarist to duplicate Buckethead's old parts. He was a big part in creating the new material. 3 guitars does sound like a bit much but you can't deny the wall of sound they create is incredible. I think you're right most guitarists would hate having to share the stage with another guy much less two. But Robin and Richard are such humble guys they don't seem to be bothered. They're just glad to be in the band.

Can't wait till Friday to see who the new member is...

Also, i think the album is done and ready, just perhaps final track listing to be decided. Im sure also that if they really wanted to, they could have released it at the beginnin of the year, march time etc. But for whatever reason have decied to tour first. Like with illusions.

i agree with this. if they have 2 and a half albums worth of material 'nearly' done, then they just want the perfect tracklist. this is why I think they are doing the tour before the release of the album. they want to try some of the new songs and see which ones get the best response to put on the album. my theory is at the end of the summer tour in Europe we will have a release date announced as well as (hopefully) some US tour dates. and just for kicks we'll throw in the first single from the new album at the same time

That would be awesome. If they put out a single in June and then the album in September followed by a really long world tour. I remember reading Axl took a long time perfecting the tracklist for the Use Your Illusion albums. Although at this point he could put the songs out in alphabetical order and no one would care.

Nope, please read our forum rules. We don't allow cupcakes to come onto our forum for the sole purpose of bashing the band that everybody is here to talk about. This is why our rules don't allow members to pointlessly bash band members, former members or their management. Please respect this rule if you wish to continue posting here.

OK, so it's ok to flame fellow board members? And call them "cupcakes?"

Also, as a moderator, I wish you'd explain how my original post was in anyway "bashing" or anti-Guns N Roses. I expressed a healthy skepticism. I didn't say I hated Axl Rose or the band.

I said I was disappointed, excited and skeptical about Axl's comments.

In your responses you've said that I misinterpreted quotes. OK, so I phrased the introduction to my topic wrong. Again, how does that constitute bashing?

I'd love to know so I make sure not to do it again.

If you don't think Axl and the rest of the crew will deliver, then stop with these useless posts about it. No one wants to see this shit, we've seen it for years.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be cynical and try to rain on everyone's parade.

I just saw so many "Axl says album to be released in the fall" threads in the last few days I thought I'd try to put his comments some perspective.

If he's made a planned appearance on Eddie Trunk and announced "the album will be out this fall" I'd be a lot more reassured. But the fact is that since 2001 Axl has never volunteered a possible release dates for the record, it's always in response to an interviewer's question. If Eddie hadn't asked him when the album was coming out I'm not sure Axl would have brought up the subject himself.

He didn't respond well when Eddie mentioned he'd been working on this new album for over 10 years.

I get the feeling it's not his favorite conversation piece.

2000intentions (Original_Gunner) you act as if you are somehow owed a release date and an album from GNR. I could be wrong here, but I dont beleive Axl owes you a damn thing. Take what you get and be happy with it. If you can't handle that, go find another band to like. Most of us have grown used to Axl doing things the way HE wants to do it.

Original Gunner? What the f does that mean? So I should be ashamed I like the original band.

I also like the new band. I actually listen to the new stuff more than the old

I just love the attitude of "new Gunner" fans. "Love it or leave it."

Believe me I like plenty of other bands. And Guns N Roses is the most difficult to stay loyal to.

"Take what you get and be happy with it." Yes master.

You should be Axl's agent. "Axl's gonna release the album when and if he feels like it. Be happy with what you've got. And leave him alone. He doesn't owe you anything. And if you don't like it, there's plenty of other band's to support."

This is the first time Axl himself has come out publicly and told the world when the album would be released. Yet - for some bizarre reason - you prefer to still keep hanging onto old rumors started by fan sites and extricated from interviews by other band members. Really sad.

"other band members?" 90% of my quotes are from Axl himself.

"really sad?" No, what's sad is the fact that Axl didn't commit to a specific release date. Fall, late fall or "by the end of the year" isn't exactly something you can mark your calendar by. And you're saying up until this past weekend nobody knew that a new GnR record was gonna come out because Axl hadn't officially said so (like the Eddie Trunk show is official)? Why is there a forum called "Chinese Democracy.com" then? Why did Guns N Roses play concerts in January 2001 under the banner of "Chinese Democracy Starts Now?"

Sorry, but most of us don't consider pointless and unsubstantiated bashing - meant to draw attention to yourself - as constructive criticism.

No unless it involves pointless and unsubstantiated bashing of fellow board members. Which this site (and other GnR fan forums) seem to thrive on and condone. I personally, like a lot of people, don't see the point of posting new topics or even replying in a GnR fan forum for fear of getting flamed.

"Drawing attention to myself?" You've noticed I've only posted only 50 times since I joined a month ago. And you've posted over 1800 times since joining in August of last year. At this rate I'll have to post @ 200 messages a month to keep up with you.

I started this topic because I was sick of reading the countless topics saying "Axl says CD will come out in the fall." (Which isn't what he said) After weeks of reading "Axl says CD will come out this summer" threads.

I dont know.. it seems no matter what certain members here are stuck in the past and are set on coming here day after day bashing all of the members of the band. That just doesn't make sense because this is the band we are here to support. Axl has confirmed that all of the guys from 2002 besides buckethead are still in Guns N' Roses, and that they have been working hard getting ready for the release of the albums and the upcoming tours. A lot of these guys get absolutely no respect around here, mostly because they were the guy that replaced someone's favorite old member.

I think if the new album comes out along with a world tour the new band will become a lot more popular and the bashing will become less severe. I didn't get into the new GnR until I heard the leaks and listened to a several of the concerts on the 2002 tour. And seeing The Rock In Rio 2001 video really turned me onto the new Guns.

I think if Axl got more new material out there to promote the new Guns that would do the trick. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't aware of what's going on with the band.

(People think they broke up a long, long time ago) Once people here & see how great the new band the resentment towards the "new Guns" will fade.

Oh - 2000Intentions - boo hoo hoo.

I looked through your "list" - and sorry, but other band members, former managers and certainly other GNR fan sites don't count as sources "confirming" a release date. Axl is the only one who would know for sure, and, as far as I can recall, this is the first time I've seen Axl himself go out on a limb and publicly - I repeat publicly - broadcast to the world that the CD will be out this Fall.

So, if it doesn't happen in the Fall, then blast away.

Until then, this is just more pointless Axl bashing by someone trying to bring all the dedicated Gunners down.

Jesus, are you all in some kind of collective denial?

Any hint of criticism of god (Axl) and his new band is seen as some kind of personal attack on the "GnR faithful" and "Axl bashing." Evidently people who became fans of the band post 2001-2002 are the "dedicated Gunners" and all fans of the old band "just don't get it."

That's funny to you say "other band members" quotes don't count. So in effect you're saying that Guns N Roses isn't a band, cause Axl's sidemen's statement don't mean shit. And we should disregard statements that Axl gives in print interviews because we didn't hear an audio recording of it.

Egotistical jerk!

Hide in europe... I suppose you don't have ANY idea at all how arrogant and ignorant that is do you?

Why the hell do you think you deserve it more then the people in europe?

What makes you better and more deserving?

Ignore the fans in the states. You had a your in 2002 remember?

And he's still going there, rest assured.

The man is certainly NOT hiding. He's starting it here. Deal with it!

For years no news, no info. Nothing.

And now we have all this exitement and there's still negative dumb people like you for whom it's never enough.

You obviously have no idea what you're on about.

Arrogant prick.

I didn't mean any offense. Believe me I know the whole planet doesn't revolve around the United States. But the band broke big here in 1987 and it be nice to see them back. All I know is he makes a lot more money in Europe doing festivals than here in the States. And catches a lot less heat from the press & fans for having an all new lineup. I guess I'm just jealous that I can't go.

I just hope Europe doesn't keep the band all to themselves!

I'm actualy 9. Thanks.

Seriously though, you obviously don't know shit about europe or the fans here.

You put it in an incredibly ignorant and degrading way. Are the crouds here more receptive? Yes.

But that doesn't say anything. We're getting the same over here as you're getting in the states. So that doesn't matter.

If you "want to see the beef" that's fine. But what does that have to do with where they go first?

It's not an arguement as to why they should do the US first is it?

Doing europe first is a really smart move marketing-wise as it also creates more buzz in the US.

And you just need that more in the US then you need it here.

And they will do both europe and the US (and probably Asia), so the "it's easy" arguement is also complete bull.

Still sounds to me like you guys are just bummed you won't "get it first".

I respect Europe. Part of me wishes I lived there. (You guys get some really cool concerts). But, let me ask you: Do you resent the fact that video of Slash & Duff is being used in ads promoting the upcoming concerts? Don't you feel misled by the marketing people? And the fact that Duff and Slash are all over the promo posters.

You should feel insulted by that. That GnR's concert promoters feel they European fans are too naive to notice that the Guns N Roses they'll be seeing in 2006 won't be the one they saw back in 1993.

Funny how you take the words of a lot of people and treat them as official statements from Axl's own mouth.

He only said stuff like "we hope". Not substantial stuff.

He never lied to you. You just took his words out of context and/or misinterprated them.

Seriously, the man finaly said something good HIMSELF. Be happy.

How the hell did you get this much sand in your vagina.

I only included statements from Axl himself, his manager & the band. (most of them official)

I'm just trying to point out that all of Axl's statements this year all sound very similar to what he's been saying since 2001.

I can't believe fans who've been following this runaround for the past 6 years aren't more upset. Nevermind the fact that it's been 15 years since the last original Guns N Roses studio album.

And everybody says "just be thankful he said something" and "at least we get the shows this summer."

Talk about lowered expectations! I'm also a fan of The Who and Pete Townshend has an official website where he posts to frequently. Just to check in and let his fans know what's been up to. A lot of artists do that now. Have web diaries and the like. With Axl it's like we're in the stone age.

Nobody is forcing you to wait, you dont want to wait then please do us a favour and find something that gives you the rewards you so deserve

Yeah but don't you ever feel like you're being dicked around by Axl and his management year after year?

Don't you ever get resentful?

well i'm not too covinced it'll be out this year but i know it will be out by the end of 2007

i heard they'll be dropped by the label unless its out by then and people have told me they know from inside sources its out in 2007 at the latest.

don't believe me if you don't want to, makes no difference to me

Where'd you get the end of 2007 deadline? It sounds realistic.

I'm surprised Geffen didn't drop GnR several years ago. (When costs reached 10 million)

I know in 2004 they cut off funding for further recording sessions.

Even then, Axl could take his master tapes to another record company (Sanctuary Group) or decide not to release them at all. I hope I'm just being cynical. I'm sure Axl will put the thing out this year. If not, a lot of GnR fans will be really, really disappointed. If he thought his popularity took a hit in 2002, he has't seen anything yet.

I for one was disappointed, excited and skeptical of Axl’s comments on the Eddie Trunk show that the new album will be out in “the fall,” “late fall” & “definitely by the end of the year.”

For those of you keeping track. Here’s the list of rumored Chinese Democracy release dates since we were first made aware that it was the working title of the next GnR album in 1999. Not promises or official release dates. Just statements made by GnR Management, band members and Axl himself regarding the progress of the album.

2000: GnR Manager Doug Goldstein Rolling Stone interview: ''As far as I can tell, we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done in February or March for a summer release.''

January 2001: Axl Radio Rock & Pop Chile interview: “Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter."

2001: Axl Interview w O Globo magazine (about Rock In Rio): "The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, Chinese Democracy, which will be released in June. The leader (Axl) guarantees his fans that they will be rewarded for the long wait."

Spring 2002: Guns N Roses official press release: "Guns N’ Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming Chinese Democracy album."

March 2004: Axl Rose official press release on the status of the album: "We hope to announce a release date within the next few months."

March 2005: Guns N Roses manager Merck Mercuriadis states: "The 'Chinese Democracy' album is very close to being completed, people felt like the record had been made four or five times already."

January 2006: Axl talks to Rolling Stone. He mentions that they're working on 32 songs, and that 26 are nearly done. Of those, 13 are slated for the final album. He states: "people will hear music this year."

April 2006: (From the Rock In Rio website) It’s been 12 years since Guns n’ Roses’ last album was released and Axl Rose claims that Chinese Democracy will be released before the summer.

Axl still sounds paranoid and secretive. Eddie Trunk is a terrible interviewer. All he did was kiss Axl's ass and apologize. Didn't ask him any tough questions: about his feelings on Velvet Revolver, Slash's middle of the night visit to his home, Scott Weiland's comments, the Slash/Duff lawsuit, the 2002 riots, why he's such a recluse (no press conferences in 13 years), about his repeated promises in the past five years that the new album would come out "soon," why he doesn't keep his official site up to date, why he ignore's his American fans, etc...

It was basically a fluff interview that went nowhere. Axl's promise that the new album will be out in fall, late fall or "by the end of the year" is ridiculous. In the words of Chef from "Apocalypse Now": "Put that fucker out man!" Plus in that interview promoting Rock In Rio he said the album would be out "this summer."

How can he possibly consider touring America in September without a new album out. He should put volume one out ASAP (July at the latest) so people in North America can learn the new songs, that way we'll know them when GnR hits the States this fall.

This all reminds me too much of Axl's aborted comebacks in 2001 and 2002. He's taking those big money shows in Europe and South America but staying away from America (except for a handful of club dates). He's not committing to anything (videos, band lineup, singles, album release date). Like he's just wanting to "see how it goes" again. Meaning if the European shows don't go exactly as he wants them to the rest of the year is a write off.

One "sad but true" comment that irked me was when he said it's easier to play overseas because they don't get as upset by the "new" Guns N Roses lineup as we do in the States. Yeah people in Rio are so dense they thought Buckethead was Slash wearing a KFC bucket on his head. People overseas don't give Axl any shit about daring to tour as Guns N Roses without Slash, Duff and Izzy.

Let Axl hide in Europe for the next three months. Pretend GnR is still a stadium act. And use video & pictures of him with Slash & Duff to promote the shows. And ignore his fans in the States and make us wait another 4-6 months for "Chinese Democracy." This doesn't feel like a real comeback to me. Just that Axl needs money and the European festival shows will make him a fortune.

He seems determined to deny his American fans new albums, concerts, videos, interviews, an official web site, etc... He should give the GnR name to Slash, Duff and Izzy. At least the still release new music.

Paul Tobias NEVER played any live shows with G N R....

Correct me if i am wrong. This timeline mentions him playing in Vegas.

He played a grand total of 4 shows with GnR, all in 2001.

Vegas House of Blues

Rock In Rio

Vegas: The Joint (2 shows)

Then he left the band before the 2002 World Tour.

Great job mate. Really, the people who diss it... for christ sake get a fuckin' life. You have nothing better to do than pick out little details that no one gives a shit about for example, 'The first time Axl stroked his beard in public was 1992'. Really, who cares?

1995: Original rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin begins working with Axl and Duff on writing music for the new album.

I never knew that. But what have I been saying? Izzy could be the 3rd guitarist and now that rumour has gained some strength. I'd love to see Izzy and Axl back on stage together.

You know what gets me the most about the whole breakup. Paul Tobias - Who? Just a random guy that Axl brought in who clearly wasn't worthy of Guns N' Roses. He basically splits up the original band and then in 2001, he just kinda slips out the back door as if he never existed. If he hasn't contributed a decent amount to 'Chinese Democracy' then he has a lot to answer for e.g. Breaking up the greatest rock band of all time, bar none.

I didn't know Izzy rejoined GnR in 1995 either until I read it on this site. I also so it here:

"It seems that the Ju Ju Hounds have unfortunately disbanded while recording their second album. Izzy has been spotted playing with fellow Gunners Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum and an all-star band at the opening show of The Joint in Las Vegas in Spring '95, and appeared at the encore of the Slash's Snakepit show in Chicago to play the Stones' "Bitch". He also wrote some new material with Axl and Duff for a new Guns N' Roses album, but no confirmation has been made whether he was back in the band or not."

[http]http://www.snakepit.org/izzy.html[/http]

I think after the Ju Ju Hounds broke up and he lost his record contract he decided to help out Axl and Duff on the GnR album. To try to help write songs. Slash said Izzy wasn't planning on touring with the band.

Paul Tobias had no business being anywhere near Guns N Roses much less playing alongside Slash.

Of course you can't blame Paul. He probably made a fortune during his time with GnR (he was in the band longer than Steven Adler!) Who can blame him for wanting to be in the band.

But the Paul Tobias problem was all Axl Rose. He's the one that called him up from the Indiana factory he was probably working in! (You wanna join Guns N Roses or work in the steel mill?) Paul just jumped at the opportunity. And became Axl's yes man. Criticising Slash and anyone else who pissed Axl off.

I read Tommy Stinson also had a problem working with Paul Tobias who he said "had the attitude of an old GnR member but had never played live with the old band." Evidently Paul had a healthy ego.

What's ironic is Axl claiming onstage at Rio in 01 that "Without Paul there wouldn't be a Guns N Roses." Slash and Matt probably had a good laugh at that. The truth is actually "Because of Paul there is no longer a Guns N Roses filled with most the people you 'grew to know and love'."

Slash and Stevey played one show with axl in 85.They wouldn't play again until 86.

I'm not trying to put together a comprehensive timeline of the entire group's history. (If I included every memorable moment from the past 20 years the timeline would be 100 pages long. I'm just focusing on the Chinese Democracy album and the collapse of the classic lineup of the band) The general background section is meant to be just that "general."

95-99-1 sided view point.....I gotta hit the neutrality button

One sided viewpoint? Wish you'd explain that further since all the information I include is based on band member interviews, press releases and respected articles (Rolling Stone, Spin, New York Times) about the breakdown of the original band. It sure as hell isn't my opinion or speculation. Which is what you've mostly included in yours reply.

1st of all, they didn't ORIGONALLY want an apetite album,

I wish you'd state sources for your claims.

Here's an Axl quote from his 2002 official press release: "Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else."

gilby quit,not fired, there was a phone conversation about this

He got fired and rehired four times. And then finally walked away. Then he filed a lawsuit against GnR for using his image in their band advertisements. Slash and Matt said Gilby was fired by Axl and replaced with Paul Tobias.

the heck'd izzy come back?i don't remember izzy ever saying anything about adding guitar parts, which seems unlikely because he didn't even want to do those 5 substitute shows for gnr

From the MyGNR Forum FAQ section timeline:

"1995: unknown date Zakk Wylde is replaced by original rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin."

fincky wasn't found til after slash left, and after he did they wanted him to play guitar(wasn't rythm, but it might've just been guitar parts)

Not according to Matt Sorum. He said in an interview that he and Axl saw Robin play live and Matt said "That's our new guitarist!" Matt wanted him to play rhythm guitar behind Slash. Axl wanted him to replace Slash. But Robin didn't officially join the band until after Slash left.

94-02-it's not nice to belittle paul

You mean the "Yoko Ono" of Guns N Roses? (Matt Sorum's words not mine)

I think I went easy on Paul Tobias considering Slash hated his guts and was instrumental in the breakup of the 1993 lineup of the band. Paul also left Axl hanging in early 2002. I don't think Mr. Huge added anything good to the Guns n Roses legacy. (Unless you count 'Oh My God" )

shannon hoon wasn't axl's cousin

Fixed it. I don't know where I got that from.

Sorry that i have a been a bit to harsh to you but some info isn't correct.

The first members of G N' R where Axl, Izzy, Tracii Guns, Rob Gardener & "Ole." They played for the first time as G N' R on 03.26.85 at the Troubador, Hollywood, CA

Duff joined the band march,april 1985.

Slash and Steven did their first show with G N' R on 06.06.85 at the Troubador, Hollywood, CA. They joined the band on this date.

http://www.gnrontour.com/

No worries. I changed the introduction to show what went on in 1985. Thanks for the information.

Eh, not ENTIERLY accurate

Well, tell me what's wrong and I'll fix it...

You gotta be more specific.

To quote myself...

"Featuring quotes, news items and rumors regarding the project."

It was during the Illusion tour that Axl pretty much ambushed the band by saying "sign this contract and it'll give me the GNR name. Don't sign it and the tour is cancelled." Duff and Slash signed the contract just to get through the shows. Slash mentioned this in an interview I think last year or so

This is from the Here Today Gone To Hell web site:

"January, 1997 - Axl buys the rights to the name Guns N' Roses."

I know you're referring to the Behind The Music special where Slash talks about Axl's ultimateum before the start of the UYI tour.

I think those were two separate events. Duff & Slash signing away their rights to the name GnR in 1991 and then Axl buying the GnR copyright in 97. I think Axl technically owned the name since 91 but didn't make it official until after Slash left.

Go outside or get a hobby. :chef:

Thank you Mr. 2,215 posts man. (Spend a lot of time outside do ya?)

Writing and research is my hobby. Just so happens I like to write about Guns N Roses now.

Eh, not ENTIERLY accurate

Well, tell me what's wrong and I'll fix it...

You gotta be more specific.

To quote myself...

"Featuring quotes, news items and rumors regarding the project."

This is the something I put together. A chronicle of the entire Chinese Democracy saga. Thought new fans might enjoy it. I plan to keep it updated. (Hopefully the timeline will end soon when the damn thing is finally released!)

THE CHINESE DEMOCRACY ALBUM TIMELINE

A history of the unreleased Guns N Roses "Chinese Democracy" album. Featuring quotes, news items and rumors regarding the project.

GENERAL BACKGROUND: 1985-1993

March 1985: Hollywood CA: Two members of Hollywood Rose (singer Axl Rose & guitarist Izzy Stradlin) join forces with three members of LA Guns (guitarist Traci Guns, bassist Ole Beich & drummer Rob Gardner) to form a new band called Guns N Roses.

April 1985: Duff McKagan (of the band Road Crew) replaces Ole Beich on bass.

06/06/85: Guitarist Slash and drummer Steven Adler (also of Road Crew) replace Tracii and Rob at a Guns N Roses concert at the Troubador. This is the first time Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff & Steven) perform live together.

1985-86: Guns N Roses tours clubs, rehearses, records a Live EP and eventually land a multi-album deal with Geffen Records. They spend the remainder of 1986 finishing up work on their debut full length album.

1987-1990: Guns N Roses debut album Appetite For Destruction goes on to sell over 20 million copies. The band tours the world from June of 1987 to December 1988. In late 1988, they release the album GnR Lies (featuring their 1986 Live EP + 4 new acoustic tracks) which also goes multi-platinum.

June 1990: Steven Adler is fired from the band because of his substance abuse problems. He is replaced by former Cult drummer Matt Sorum.

Summer 1991: The band goes on tour while finishing up work on their new album. Keyboardist Dizzy Reed becomes the group’s sixth member.

09/09/91: Use Your Illusion I & II are released. 2CD’s featuring 30 songs and nearly 2 ½ hours of music.

11/07/91: Newly clean and sober Izzy Stradlin leaves the band to pursue a solo career. He is replaced by former Kills For Thrills guitarist Gilby Clarke.

December 1991 to July 1993: The Use Your Illusion World Tour. The band played a total of 192 dates in 27 countries for over seven million people.

Spring 1993: Guns N Roses finishes up work on their album of punk covers. Most of the tracks had been recorded between June 1990 and early 1991 during the Use Your Illusion sessions.

October 1993: Duff McKagan releases his first solo album "Believe In Me”

11/23/93: The Guns n Roses cover album “The Spaghetti Incident?” is released. The band & Geffen Records object to Axl including his cover of Charles Manson's “Look At Your Game Girl” but Axl insists.

1994-1997: BREAKUP OF THE ORIGINAL BAND

January 1994: Axl & Slash appear on the radio show Rock Line. They say they’re about to start work on the next Guns N Roses studio album. Axl says he is also working on a “top secret project” and hoping to work with Queen guitarist Brian May.

January 1994: Slash tells Kerrang! magazine that the next GN'R album would be out in the Summer.

Early 1994: Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy and Gilby enter the studio to record the followup to "Use Your Illusion." Geffen hopes to have the album out before the end of the year. At first they attempt to record an "Appetite" sounding album. But with two members of that band gone it becomes impossible. Axl becomes heavily influenced by the techno/alternative movement and wants to make an industrial sounding record. Slash, Matt and Gilby want to record back to basics hard rock. Duff is somewhere in the middle.

05/10/94 Duff comes close to death when his pancreas explodes. This was caused by years of substance abuse. Doctors tell him he must stop drinking or he’ll be dead within a month. Duff gets clean and sober.

May 1994: Gilby Clarke tells Kerrang: "There is no `next GN'R album'. We started working on one, and it got canned. It's an Axl thing. He just wasn't into what we were doing, so he's kind of rethinking what he wants to do. He just kind of threw a wrench into everything that me, Slash and Matt had worked to."

June 1994: Axl fires Gilby Clarke because he feels he isn't a strong enough songwriter. He replaces him with his childhood friend Paul "Huge" Tobias (co-writer of the song "Back Off Bitch"). The rest of the band disagrees with this decision. Slash can't stand Tobias. Axl sees Paul as his ally. The band records a version of the Rolling Stones song "Sympathy For The Devil."

1994: Axl is sued by ex-wife Erin Everly for spousal abuse. His ex-girlfriend Stephanie Seymour testifies at the trial.

Fall 1994: Slash records songs for his first solo project, Slash’s Snakepit. Using material Axl rejected for the next Guns N Roses album.

December, 1994: "Sympathy For The Devil" is released as a single and featured in the film "Interview With A Vampire.” Slash is upset because Axl replaced part of his guitar solos on the song with ones played by Paul Tobias.

February, 1995 Slash's Snakepit releases their debut album It's Five O'Clock Somewhere. Axl threatens to sue the guitarist saying the material should have been used for the next Guns N Roses album.

November 1995: Slash talks about the delay in recording a new Guns n Roses record to Metal Hammer. "I played him (Axl) the material that I was writing, and he was like, ‘I don't wanna do that kind of music.’ So I took the material back And then I booked a tour, and at this point Axl turned around and wanted the material back. And that's where the big shit started, because I told him, "Dude, it's gone. If I remember correctly, it was turned down flat." And that's where we got threats of lawsuits and this, that and the other."

Fall 1995: Axl brings in Ozzy Osbourne guitarist Zakk Wylde to work with Guns N Roes. Slash doesn’t like working with Zak. Axl wants to fire Matt Sorum but Duff and Slash side with the drummer. Axl still wants to make an epic album featuring samples and techno music. Musical differences continue to divide the group.

1995: Original rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin begins working with Axl and Duff on writing music for the new album.

October 31st, 1995 Axl’s childhood friend Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon singer) dies from a drug overdose. He sang backup on several Use Your Illusion tracks and appeared in the "Don't Cry" video.

Winter 1995: Sessions for the new Guns n Roses album completely breakdown. Slash, Duff and Matt Sorum feel they can't work with Axl anymore and pursue outside projects. Izzy once again leaves the band because nothing has been recorded for a new album.. Slash, Duff and Matt resent Axl's controlling ways in the studio and unwillingness to compromise. They also dislike Paul Tobias feeling he tells Axl what he wants to hear. And that he isn’t a strong enough guitarist to be in a band as big as Guns N Roses.

August, 1996: Neurotic Outsiders, featuring Duff and Matt Sorum, release their first album. The band then tours North American and Europe.

Fall 1996: Matt and Axl see Nine Inch Nails guitarist Robin Finck perform and want him to be in Guns n Roses. Matt wants him to be the new rhythm guitarist. However, Axl wants him to play lead and replace Slash.

October 1996: Slash meets with Axl to discuss the future of Guns N Roses. Slash wants Axl to fire Paul Tobias but the singer refuses. The two decide to part ways.

10/30/96: Slash announces he has left Guns N Roses. Axl sends a fax to MTV which says that Slash hadn't been a part of GN'R since 1995. Despite Slash's departure, Axl says Guns N Roses will continue to release albums and tour.

January, 1997 Axl buys the rights to the name Guns N' Roses.

January 1997: In an interview with Addicted To Noise, Slash expresses regret over giving up rights to the GN'R name. "I was blindsided by it, more or less a legal faux pas. I'd be lying to say I wasn't a little bit peeved at that. The fact that he (Axl) can actually go and record a new GN'R record without the consent of the other members of the band."

Early 1997: Robin Finck becomes Guns N Roses new lead guitarist.

May 30th, 1997 West Arkeen died from an accidental drug overdose. He was a friend of the band and co-wrote songs such as "The Garden" and "Yesterdays".

August, 1997 Duff McKagan quits Guns N Roses.

1997: Matt Sorum is fired by Axl.

1998-2002: AXL'S SLOW COMEBACK

February 11th, 1998 - Axl is arrested after allegedly threatening security worker at Phoenix's Sky Harbor Airport.

February 18th, 1998 - Axl plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of disturbing the peace. He's fined $500 fine and sentenced to one day in jail - which he already served.

1998: Axl returns to the studio to continue work on the now long overdue GnR studio album. The band's lineup now consists of: Axl, Robin Finck, Paul Tobias, Dizzy Reed, drummer Josh Freese (formerly of the Vandals), bassist Tommy Stinson (formerly of The Replacements) and keyboardist/effects man Chris Pittman.

1998: Geffen Records promises Axl a $1 million bonus if he delivers a new Guns N Roses album by March 1 of the following year.

January 1999: Seagram orchestrates a massive restructuring of its music division, firing 110 Geffen employees and folding the unit into the corporation's bigger Interscope Records division. The unfinished Guns N Roses album is placed in the hands of Interscope's chairman, Jimmy Iovine. Axl is greatly upset over the news.

08/01/99: Robin Finck leaves GN'R to rejoin Nine Inch Nails.

November 1999: The first new original Guns N Roses song since 1991, “Oh My God” is released as part of the End Of Days movie soundtrack. The track features four guitarists: Tobias, Finck, Dave Navarro and Gary Sunshine.

Winter 1999: GnR manager Doug Goldstein tells the LA Times a new album called Chinese Democracy will be released in 2000.

2000: Rolling Stone article: "The new Guns N Roses album is tentatively titled Chinese Democracy and loosely scheduled for summer 2000." ''As far as I can tell,'' says GnR's manager Doug Goldstein, ''we are now 99% musically done and 80% vocals done. I see the record being done February or March for a summer release.''

January 2000: Rolling Stone's David Wild hears Chinese Democracy and describes it as "Physical Graffiti remixed by Beck and Trent Reznor."

March 2000: John Freese leaves band and forms A Perfect Circle.

May 2000: Moby in a Spin magazine article describes working on Chinese Democracy: "I found it difficult to chart a linear development of the songs that they were working on They would work on something, it would be a sketch for a while, and then they'd put it aside and go back to it a year, six months later. I wouldn't be surprised if the record never came out, they've been working on it for such a long time."

October 2000: Drummer Brian “Brain” Mantia (formerly of Primus) and guitarist Buckethead join the band. Robin Finck rejoins.

January 2001: Radio Rock And Pop Chile interview. Axl: "Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter."

January 2001: Guns N' Roses plays it's first concerts since 1993 appearing at the House Of Blues in Las Vegas and Rock in Rio festival in Brazil. The new lineup features: Rose, Dizzy Reed, Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, Brian “Brain” Mantia, Buckethead and Chris Pitman. They play several new songs: "Chinese Democracy," "The Blues," "Silkworms," "Madagascar" "Rhiad And The Bedouins" and "Oh My God."

2001: Globo magazine article (about the Rock In Rio gig): "The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, Chinese Democracy, which will be released in June. The leader (Axl) guarantees his fans that they will be rewarded for the long wait."

May 2001: GnR cancels its June tour of Europe because Buckethead is ill. The dates are rescheduled for December.

November 2001: GnR cancels the rescheduled European dates. Manager Doug Goldstein claims he forgot to tell Axl he booked the tour.

Fall 2001: Doug Goldstein (after cancellation of European tour) "Following the euphoria of Rock In Rio, I jumped the gun and arranged a European tour, as our plan was to have the new album out this year."

2001: Tom Zutaut, the A&R man who helped get GnR signed to Geffen Records, works for 9 months to help Axl finish the album. "I really thought I could get him to deliver the record, and we got close."

December 29th-31st, 2001: The band plays two shows at The Joint in Las Vegas

Early 2002: Paul Tobias leaves the band because of frustrations the band's inability to complete the album. He is replaced with Richard Fortus (formerly of Love Spit Love).

Spring 2002: The band’s official website announces a Chinese Democracy World Tour which will commence in August. The press release also states: "Guns N’ Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming Chinese Democracy album."

August 2002: The band plays concerts in China, Japan, London and Belgium.

08/29/02: GN'R make a surprise appearance at the 2002 MTV Video Music Awards in New York.

11.07.02: The North American tour is set to kick off in Vancouver, Canada . However, the show is cancelled due to Axl’s tardiness. Due to a flight delay he was running over an hour late. A riot ensues.

November – December 2002: The band tours the United States. They perform in 16 cities. The final show is at Madison Square Garden in New York.

12.06.02: Philadelphia First Union Center: On the night of the show, Guns n Roses cancels their scheduled concert around 11 p.m. Fans had been waiting for several hours for the show to begin. A spokesman claims one of the band member’s is sick. The fans riot. The media reports that Axl never left New York and that he was watching a basketball game on TV.

Dec 2002: Tour promoter Clear Channel cancels the remaining 15 dates of the tour.

2003-2005: THE WALL OF SILENCE

Early 2003: Clear Channel refuses to promote any Guns N Roses shows in the forseeable future. Citing cancellations, fan riots, late start times and low attendance as reasons for pulling the plug on the North American tour. Clear Channel is one of the biggest promoters in rock and their blacklisting of GnR will keep the band off the road for over 3 years.

March 2003 - "Michael H." birthday bash show. Richard Fortus on the status of Chinese Democracy: "Yeah, Axl is finishing it up now, doing vocals-- overdubs. It's GREAT."

July 2003: Axl plays tracks from the Chinese Democracy album to a mostly empty Crazy Horse Too club in Las Vegas.

02/02/04: Geffen Records Press Release: "Having exceeded all budgeted and approved recording costs by millions of dollars it is Mr. Rose's obligation to fund and complete the album, not Geffen's." Over a legal challenge by Axl, the label then issues a GnR greatest-hits compilation.

March 2004: Buckethead leaves the band to resume his solo career.

March 2004: Axl Rose press release regarding the status of the album: "We hope to announce a release date within the next few months."

March 30th, 2004 - GN'R cancels a planned show at Rock In Rio in May. According to the press release, the show is cancelled because Buckethead left the band.

04/29/04: Duff and Slash sue Axl, claiming the singer withheld over a million dollars in royalties from them. Axl countersues.

July 26th, 2004 - Tommy Stinson's solo album, "Village Gorilla Head" is released. He then embarks on a three month solo tour.

September 2004: Bassist Tommy Stinson states in an interview that he expects “Chinese Democracy” to be mastered in October or November.

September, 2004 - Dizzy Reed plays shows across the eastern part of the USA with his cover band Dizzy Reed's Hollywood Bulldozer.

October, 2004 - The videogame Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas is released. Featuring Axl as the voice of Tommy "The Nightmare" Smith, the K-DST DJ.

December 2004, Guns N' Roses' manager Merck Mercuriadis becomes CEO of Sanctuary Music Group. In January 2005, Rose signs a publishing deal with Sanctuary, which covers past and future work by Rose, including "dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music."

December 2004: Tommy Stinson Guitar World interview regarding Chinese Democracy: "It's coming, sooner rather than later," he says.

February 2005: The UK music store HMV includes GnR's Chinese Democracy on their list of upcoming album releases. They list the release date as April 25th.

February 2005 Entertainment News website: "Guns n Roses new album is expected to be released in the middle of 2005 if some reports are to be believed."

March 2005: A New York Times article about Chinese Democracy titled “The Most Expensive Album Never Made” states that production costs have reached $13 million.

March 2005: Sanctuary Group CEO and Guns N Roses manager Merck Mercuriadis states: "The 'Chinese Democracy' album is very close to being completed, people felt like the record had been made four or five times already."

April – August 2005: Richard Fortus tours with German singer Nena

July 2005: Entertainment News website: "The release of 'Chinese Democracy', the much vaunted new album by Guns n'roses, is drawing ever closer, and could see a release as early as November/December of 2005."

September 2005: Rose reportedly tells a group of fans in Malibu that the album might be released in early 2006 and that the band is looking to put a song on the soundtrack for the movie The Da Vinci Code .

Late 2005: According to Blabbermouth.net, Geffen Records has announced that November 29, 2005 will be the release date for Chinese Democracy.

December 2005: Amazon.com posts a listing for "Guns N Roses: Chinese Democracy". The price is $21.49 with a release date of December 31, 2025 (the temporary date set for all new unconfirmed releases). The listing was removed a few days later.

JANUARY 2006 TO PRESENT: ROUND TWO?

January 2006: Axl attends a Korn tour launch party and talks to Rolling Stone. He mentions that the band is working on 32 songs and that 26 are nearly done. Of those, 13 are slated for the final album. He promises: "people will hear music this year."

January 2006: Guns N Roses announce a European summer tour. They will appear at major rock festivals like Rock In Rio, Download, Rock AM Ring, Gods of Metal, Graspop Metal Meeting and Rosklide.

January 2006: Slash radio interview: "Axl has a record coming out, I think in March, which is cool, because it will be interesting to hear, after all this time." Host: "So wait, Chinese Democracy is coming out?" Slash: "Yeah, it’s coming out in March!"

February 2006: Complete studio demos of the Chinese Democracy tracks "I.R.S.""There Was A Time"/"T.W.A.T." "Better" and "Catcher in the Rye" are leaked online. Guitarist Brian May confirms that he played on "Cather In The Rye."

03/03/06: Axl files court papers to ask for "ownership of all creative works" by Guns n' Roses. According to Merck Mercuriadis: "This will not delay the new album - quite the opposite - tying up these loose ends allows us to get on with it."

March 2006: Live Nation website: "Legendary rockers Guns N' Roses will release their first album in 13 years next month when the long awaited 'Chinese Democracy' finally hits store shelves."

March 21st, 2006: From Talking Metal.com "Clear Channel's official website announced that the long awaited Guns N' Roses album, "Chinese Democracy," would arrive on store shelves in April, so TalkingMetal.com contacted Axl's management to get the real scoop. Sanctuary Management told TalkingMetal.com that the Clear Channel article was "interesting" but stressed that they will issue an official press release when a release date is confirmed."

April 2006: GnR announces four warm up shows in New York at the Hammerstein Ballroom from May 12 -17th.

April 14, 2006: Rolling Stone Article announcing the NYC gigs: “An official release date for the now-mythical Chinese Democracy has yet to be announced.”

April 2006: (From the Rock In Rio Lisboa website) “It’s been 12 years since Guns n’ Roses’ last album was released and Axl Rose claims that Chinese Democracy will be released before the summer.”

MAIN SOURCES:

Articles archive & historical timeline on the “Here Today Gone To Hell” website

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/index2.php

NY Times Article: “Most Expensive Album Never Made”

GnR On Tour website

MyGNRForum FAQ

Chinese Democracy.com Forum

He's adding percussion which obviously no one can hear over 3 roaring electric guitars, a bass and drums. If you've ever seen Santana perform the instrument he's playing is used a lot. It's not really meant for a hard rock band!

Unfortunately since 80% of Guns N Roses songs don't have keyboards, programming or piano that doesn't leave Dizzy Reed or Chris Pittman much to do on stage. So instead of leaving the stage they stay on and do goofy thing like add congas to "Welcome To The Jungle" and techno effects to "You Could Be Mine." They also serve as backup singers to Tommy, Robin and Richard. (I guess those three chicks from the UYI world tour weren't available).

Chris Pittman is the most useless onstage. It's like he won the lottery, every fan's dream. "Stand on stage and pretend to play your keyboard. Don't actually play it, just rock it back in forth in time with the songs. Oh and add inaudible percussion to heavy tunes."

Now you know why Dizzy's so loyal. He's been kept on the payroll of the heaviest band in rock for 16 years. And basically had to do nothing except play piano on a few tunes. My favorite show was the gig at the Ritz in 1991. Dizzy stayed off stage and only appeared when his piano playing was needed. On songs like "Estranged" "Pretty Tied Up" and "Bad Obsession." No congas for "Mr. Brownstone."

Guns N Roses doesn't need a full time keyboard player onstage. Much less TWO full time keyboard players.

how do you do a tour without something to promote?

Lots of band's have been doing it since the mid-90's:

KISS, Page/Plant, Paul McCartney, The Who, The Eagles.

Used to be you had to put a new studio album out before touring but in the past decade things have changed. Since classic artists don't get their new material played on the radio/TV, they usually don't bother going to the trouble of recording a new album. They just go out on tour. And make a ton of money.

Guns N Roses toured based solely on name recognition in 2002 and amazingly they were able to sell out Madison Square Garden & Boston Fleet Center. But the lack of a new studio or live album and the mostly new lineup ended up hurting up them. Most arenas they played were half empty. And they only averaged around 7500 fans a night.

But if Slash & Duff were in the band right now I'm sure they could tour the world without a new album this summer and sell out everywhere. If Axl is thinking he can tour the world without any new album in the stores he's fooling himself. The mistakes of 2002 will repeat themselves.

He'll have to do something to promote the band if he's planning on touring the US. He could probably tour Europe and South America without a new album for the rest of his life. But in the States the market is harder to crack. Because of the shitty economy, soaring ticket prices and high competition between big name acts. Guns N Roses will have to do something to put their name out there.

If not Axl will run into the same problem here as in 2002. He'll play new songs that nobody knows (because the album isn't available to buy), have to deal with criticism of the new lineup (because no one knows who the new guys are) and play to half filled arenas. (If promoters even allow them to book arenas).

I know that in 2002 on MTV Axl announced "Round One" of his comeback. This year is round 2. Let's hope he doesn't "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" once again...