c4liforni4

....is more important than what's going on in Japan.

Good find!

But oh boy... Slash used to be cool. What happened.

What do you mean? He's more popular than ever. Multi-generational respect now.

"like a rock" is pretty cool song. I didn't even know who Bob Seger was growing up. I may never have discovered it so early if it wasn't for Chevy commercials.

Edit (video added)

I still think this is going to get settled. Axl won't be able to win.

The hilarious thing (well, more like the pathetic thing) about all this hatred of Axl by the Slash fan boys? In your world, Axl is the worst person that ever lived in the world and you blame him for ruining the old band. BUT your beloved Slash has put out 5 albums without Axl. He is in a performing band without Axl. He just put out a solo album without Axl. He just played in the super bowl. YET all you guys can do is hang out at a band's forum that Slash isn't part of.....and talk about Axl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slash hasn't been in GnR in over a decade......yet you people are so obssessed with Axl that you can't stay away from here!!!!!!!

Why don't you spend all your time in the VR section? Why don't you spend your time in a forum for a band that you love?

Bash Axl all you want. Bottom like is you are STILL HERE talking about him!!!!!! So keep bashing him, keep blaming Axl for everything, keep praising everything Slash does......but at the end of the day, you cannot stay away from your Axl obssession.

This always boggled my mind. Fact of the matter is Guns N' Roses are still the best and even better without $la$h . They are obsssed because $la$h will never EVER work with a talented artist like Axl EVER again.

They actually think it's cool to bash Axl.....

And Axl will never work with a talented artist like Slash again. How many guitarplayers did Axl have hired and fired since Slash's departure to replace him?

I kind of agree with this to some extent. Guns N' Roses had guitarists like Slash and Buckethead it needed more than the guitarists needed Guns N' Roses career-wise. I kind of feel like it is the other way around now especially considering Joe Satriani turned it down, and he had been a replacement in Deep Purple.

He was also in Frank Zappa's band for awhile,now he does his own thing in between G3 tours,when Satriani isn't busy with chickenfoot,no bad reflection on GNR whatsoever,no matter how hard you try to imply such notions,Activision breeched a conditional contract/agreement,and it is not a frivolous case,what I wonder is what slash hoped to accomplish by doing this,knowing the circumstances,I can only surmise it is his co-dependance on being in the spotlight,regardless of how low he sinks,or how much respect he loses.

Steve Vai was in Frank Zappa's band, not Satriani. He does his own thing in between G3 tours ? O Rly? What's a G3 tour? Please educate me. Did you just google all this info before you posted?

I'm starting to wonder if all your hate posts on Slash are really about Dj. I mean, you sound confused.

The hilarious thing (well, more like the pathetic thing) about all this hatred of Axl by the Slash fan boys? In your world, Axl is the worst person that ever lived in the world and you blame him for ruining the old band. BUT your beloved Slash has put out 5 albums without Axl. He is in a performing band without Axl. He just put out a solo album without Axl. He just played in the super bowl. YET all you guys can do is hang out at a band's forum that Slash isn't part of.....and talk about Axl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slash hasn't been in GnR in over a decade......yet you people are so obssessed with Axl that you can't stay away from here!!!!!!!

Why don't you spend all your time in the VR section? Why don't you spend your time in a forum for a band that you love?

Bash Axl all you want. Bottom like is you are STILL HERE talking about him!!!!!! So keep bashing him, keep blaming Axl for everything, keep praising everything Slash does......but at the end of the day, you cannot stay away from your Axl obssession.

This always boggled my mind. Fact of the matter is Guns N' Roses are still the best and even better without $la$h . They are obsssed because $la$h will never EVER work with a talented artist like Axl EVER again.

They actually think it's cool to bash Axl.....

And Axl will never work with a talented artist like Slash again. How many guitarplayers did Axl have hired and fired since Slash's departure to replace him?

I kind of agree with this to some extent. Guns N' Roses had guitarists like Slash and Buckethead it needed more than the guitarists needed Guns N' Roses career-wise. I kind of feel like it is the other way around now especially considering Joe Satriani turned it down, and he had been a replacement in Deep Purple.

The hilarious thing (well, more like the pathetic thing) about all this hatred of Axl by the Slash fan boys? In your world, Axl is the worst person that ever lived in the world and you blame him for ruining the old band.

I think you are pathetic. No one ever said that Axl is the worst person in the world. Do you have citations or quotes to back this up? If you are trying to encapsulate the environment of the Discussion and News section you are being extremely exaggerating in your description. I'll agree with people blaming him with ruining the old band. I actually agree with that. I'll also blame him for ruining the Bucket/Finck line up. I'll even blame him for ruining what's left of the band now. You can call that bashing all you want. I think it's a valid criticism of reality.

BUT your beloved Slash has put out 5 albums without Axl. He is in a performing band without Axl. He just put out a solo album without Axl. He just played in the super bowl. YET all you guys can do is hang out at a band's forum that Slash isn't part of.....and talk about Axl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A lot of the people criticizing Axl aren't Slash fans, they're Buckethead fans too. Some Buckethead fans are very critical of Axl. I think your keyboard is stuck by the way. You posted the exclamation point 10 times in a row.

Slash hasn't been in GnR in over a decade......yet you people are so obssessed with Axl that you can't stay away from here!!!!!!!

So only Axl fans are allowed here? Are you saying that Slash fans shouldn't be allowed here at all?

Why don't you spend all your time in the VR section? Why don't you spend your time in a forum for a band that you love?

This is a Guns N' Roses forum. Not an Axl Rose forum. Slash is referenced in the Black Frog lawsuit against Activision. Azoff tried to orchestrate a reunion and now Axl is suing him. It's not as if Velvet Revolver posts are being put into the main section. Slash is a naturally occurring topic and gets brought up in the main section.

Bash Axl all you want. Bottom like is you are STILL HERE talking about him!!!!!! So keep bashing him, keep blaming Axl for everything, keep praising everything Slash does......but at the end of the day, you cannot stay away from your Axl obssession.

I'd like to see some actual quotes you generalize as "bashing". A lot of what people say happens to be valid criticisms. You seem to be speaking rhetorically rather than addressing the comments individuals make. Your arguments are longwinded, empty, and generalizing.

Wicked Hand..........seriously, to say that you are not a Slash Fan Boy is hilarious.

You act like YOU were there when the old band was together. In this thread you have continually bashed Axl and ripped apart people who are fans of his. None of us know the specifics of what went on between these two grown men. So for you to act like Axl is totally at fault - is wrong. For you to act like Axl hates Slash - is wrong. Because you - nor any of us - know.

The Slash fan boys are acting like Axl's life revolves around what Slash is doing. Why? Because he mentioned him in 2 or 3 interviews over a 10 year period?

There are 4-5 members of this forum who are obsessed with this issue - and I would be that THEY spend more time worrying about it than Axl himself does.

Wicked - you seem like a pretty intelligent poster. If you think that Axl is obssessed with hating Slash, and that Slash has NO fault in the feud......then why would Axl be friendly with Duff, Izzy and Adler? Think about that. Those guys were THERE at the same time, and those guys experienced everything that Slash did. And, Duff has been just as successful (almost) as Slash has post-Guns. If Axl is jealous of Slash.........then why wouldn't he be jealous of Duff as well?????

Bottom line - yes. I believe that Axl doesn't like Slash at all. But I have people I extremely dislike, almost hate and guess what? My life doesn't revolve around hating them or being obssessed with them. I rarely think about them. Ask me about my ex-wife and I'll tell you 20 terrible things she did as a person. But once we stop talking about her, I STOP THINKING ABOUT HER - until somebody else asks me a question. And when I see the good things she does in life now - marriage, job promotion, having a baby - it might annoy me for a second, but thats all the brain power I waste on her. I would be my last dollar that Axl feels the same way about Slash. When brought up in interviews - he will response. When seeing Slash have a hit record with VR - it probably annoys him, and then he goes about his daily business. But things like the Paradise City embarrassment, the Super bowl ridiculousness or the troubles Slash had with yet another lead singer....I'm sure he laughs and shakes his head - and then moves on with his life.

Axl isn't obssessed with hating Slash.

Just a few people on this forum are. And that is pathetic. Slash has moved on....why can't the Slash Fan Boys do the same thing?

Who are you calling "Slash Fan boys"? Do you have any quotes to back up your allegations? Why are you only addressing people criticizing Axl in this thread and not the other side? You throw a lot of postulates out there to present a picture of the Slash vs. Axl drama but not much in facts to back it up. Your post really sounds like an angry armchair quarterback that doesn't know football.

"I'm sure he laughs and shakes his head - and then moves on with his life." And then sues somebody.

I think what would probably make Axl upset more than anything would be if Slash never listened to Chinese Democracy (along with Erin Everly and Stephanie Seymour). I know from interviews that Slash said he heard it, and liked it maybe on the radio but it didn't sound like he listened to it the whole way through. I don't know for sure.

Last interview I read in the New York Post years back quoting Stephanie Seymour (still married at the time to that rich guy) and she didn't have anything positive to say in response to a question on Axl Rose. I think she has moved on and probably doesn't care anymore.

I haven't read anything about Erin Everly but she probably moved on a long time ago. I really don't know anything bout her.

Except for the song 'Chinese Democracy', much of the album is personally directed at people as in "I'm sorry for you." I think I remember Axl Saying in the New York Post like in 2002 that he wanted Stephanie's son Dylan to hear it.

I think Axl wanted people he knew personally to hear the album more than the fans.

I think it's more about the principles and laws of commerce than anything else, you claim what's your to claim, legally, the legal realities are a lot different from what should make sense, yes, Slash did help to write Jungle and all those cornerstone hits of Gn'R, but he left the fucking band, here's our good friend Lars explaining it for you what it means when sb. leaves the band, for those who don't quite get the concept of leaving a legal entity such as a band (

and by associating Slash with the trademark that is Gn'R it becomes illegal in the legal realm, the fact that Slash was in Gn'R doesn't really matter anymore in the legal sense, I mean, yeah, it matters to the fans, and I'm pretty sure that Slash being on the cover and WTTJ being in the game, Gn'R probably sold a few more records and made a few fans, especially among the kids who are used to listening to crap that's on MTV or whatever, but still it's promoting smth. that's dead, and with Slash's and Axl's relationship being what it is, I don't see why Axl should just sit there and take it lying down, but I'd say the first grounds for suing would be the matter of principle, at least for me, rather than monetary gain... you don't deserve reaping rewards from something you abandoned a long long time ago

The best way to look at this whole thing is that there are actually two different bands called Guns N' Roses that still exist. The first band before 96 controlled by Slash, Duff, and Axl still exists as a partnership but the right to use the name going forward went to Axl. Both band still as entities still exist for the post 96 GN'R material. You won't see a AFD CD rerecorded because that would compete against the existing partnership. That's why you still see Guns N' Roses videos on YouTube with Slash in the videos.

Axl's lawsuit against activision appears to be without merit because asking Activision to omit Slash from reference to the intellectual property created and controlled by the pre 96 partnership would be competing against the owners of the music, and that would be unconscionable.

I think he was fired (or almost fired?) for couple of weeks back in the day.

I have a loose theory. I think it's projected aggression. I remember reading somewhere that David Bowie once told Axl Rose that anger was the driver of his creativity and success or something close to that. That was brought in whatever I was reading in a discussion over why Axl Rose is late to concerts and why he allegedly chose to watch a football game instead of playing for the fans.

I think it's projected aggression. Nothing Slash ever did remotely makes him to be a villain that he is portrayed as and certainly not for as long as this. I think Axl felt abandoned by a friend. I also think he foresaw his career going downhill with the change in musical and used Slash for projected aggression. I remember John the Stutterer on the Howard Stern show refused treatment for his stuttering because he would then have no excuses for his failures.

I've never seen Axl admit he ever did anything wrong ever. There's always a lot of explaining away, but never a situation where he realizes that maybe *just maybe* he did something wrong. As much as I love the guy as a performer, his "blame everyone but me" attitude grates on me.

I agree with this post. I recall Axl during the 2006 Eddie Trunk interview saying something the effect of, "I blamed it on Tom Zutaut". I couldn't tell if he was saying the incorrect blame was by mistake or intentionally but that's about as close to admitting wrong that I recall. I think he tweeted that he was under the weather or something for a concert also.

I'm really surprised this wasn't settled already. I could foresee plenty of people on the witness stand answering embarrassing questions. I really don't think Axl stands a chance but the lawyers would make plenty of money. "For the betterment of evils and your ways around the laws"

Imagine, as a business owner, lets say an animation business, Disney. And you have this great artist, and he leaves, goes to Dreamworks, but he's still getting his name out in conjunction with Disney. Now, it's one thing to be paid royalties for past work, but it's another to get a new cheque for promoting a new product that uses that past work, even if you were part of that team originally. It makes it look like said artist is still with Disney, and all the while you're like "he doesn't work here anymore."

This would be so much different if Axl said "fuck Slash put me in the game" or Richard or Ron or Finck or Bucket or DJ (ok the long list of guitarists is amusing, should I add Gilby?) - but he didn't.

Slash makes a ton of money off the Guns N' Roses name. You don't see Axl trying to make money off Slash. I see people complain about how "People think Slash is still in the band, they show up at shows and expect him" - those accusations have been made on this forum. Yet when Axl tries to do what he can to make it clear that the association with Slash is long over, people get mad at him.

It's pretty clear that most of the people here have chosen sides, and those sides are *not* based on the reality of this lawsuit, which is that Activision, if it violated the agreement, was wrong to do so, whatever you think of that agreement.

There are actually two different Guns N' Roses': The pre-96 partnership, and the new band that Axl was allowed to create called "Guns N' Roses" that exist concurrently. Look at any Appetite for Destruction CD, it will never say "former Guns N' Roses" guitarist Slash. The songs on the Guitar Hero game were from the original Guns N' Roses and not from Chinese Democracy. If Slash were covering "This I Love" then it would be a different story. Your analogy is bit simple. Slash wasn't a company driver using the company car. He owned the company and the car to this day Duff and Slash still control parts of Guns N' Roses more than just royalties.

History's mysteries...I don't know what mindset Axl has but I think he hates Slash for more than one reason which is probably why the rift maybe too complex to resolve.

According to Slash, Axl was mad about the Snakepit solo album that was made with songs independent of Axl's input and approval. I think Marc Canter backed that up that he wanted to use some of the songs but not all of them. I remember a similar example in a Joe Perry interview where he was saying Steven Tyler wanted him to contribute the best songs for Aerosmith instead of using them for his solo band. Axl never really addressed the Snakepit record issue in the chats even though that's what I remember most from Slash's book so I think the story is true.

In the end, I think from viewing all of Axl's quotes, I think he looks at Guns N' Roses as a part of his personality. The only descriptor on his twitter is "GN'R". Not Axl Rose or Lead Singer.

I think at one time he saw Slash as integral with the band but once Slash abandoned it he ended up resenting Slash in many respects.

I remember reading quotes from Steven Adler's bio that Axl really didn't like being ignored and had a story to show it. I think Slash leaving the band and making music without him offended him. I remember Slash was still pursued years after leaving the band.

In 2004 however, after Buckethead left, they were already reaching out to a replacement in Bumblefoot. I know from interviews that Buckethead and Axl respected each other but other than hanging out Disneyland, I don't think they were like real friends. There's probably a quote somewhere where Axl said he didn't trust his bandmembers during the latest tour. MSL gave some insight years ago based on conversations he had with Axl and Slash was still on his mind.

I think I remember his comments on the riots in PA that it "came with the territory" and that could have been viewed by Axl as being kicked when you're down.

I think he didn't like being overshadowed by Slash in the limelight. Slash continues to have more followers everday without Axl's assistance and without mentioning GN'R. He's already universally known and respected and that is probably to the vexation of Axl when Axl doesn't get the same accolades and invites.

Also some food for thought,here's a 1988 Japan backstage tour interview with Slash and Duff hanging out and they give out their first candid description of Axl Rose I can recall.

Shitz N' Googles

my understanding is that he didn't control the band, he just had the name if it went south. he was looking for them to collab but that never happened. They may have valid reasons for quitting, but after you quit you can't have much to say. I'd say both sides are believeable. It's kind of like the Zodiac killer we'll never know who did it.

I agree a little more with this post. A contract though, where someone gets sole control of an asset on the condition of everything going south is suspicious when that triggering event had significant probability. I think that the "alleged" and publicly displayed animosity towards Slash doesn't make sense currently. Neither did the explanations for showing up or late or the long and continued wait for new music. I doubt the facets will be understood in our lifetimes nor in this universe.

I like the Zodiac Analogy.

• It isn't clear how Slash told Axl he was out and what happened the days before and a few days after.
  

According to MTV he faxed in his resignation.

I think you are mistaken, Axl sent a fax to MTV announcing Slash's departure

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=49389.0

the reason they broke up seemed to be that Slash quit.

That's not a reason, that's an equation. Why did Slash quit?

the rest was just drama. Axl is late isn't a great reason to quit.

Slash seemed to lay it out pretty well in his book. Axl was the reason according to him.

my guess is that axl doesnt like slash because of the way he portrayed the break up for 10 years as axls fault? after sifting thru this stuff for a decade that's all i came up with.

Maybe it is Axl's fault. Everyone else left too. Even Buckethead and Robin a few times.

i can buy axl controlling the band. slash wanted to roll with what they had his way, axl held off. it was frustrating. but slash quit. quit, fine but dont blame axl for staying on?

Axl had everyone else sign over the band name at a point where they were equals. Axl didn't just stay on, he took over the band. And everyone quit in the years afterwards. Sounds like a plan.

Slash is different than the other members of Guns N' Roses like Duff, Izzy, Steven, Gilby. He's been successful without Axl Rose while Axl Rose hasn't been as successful without Slash. It is (or was) a competition. Axl in his chat's and press releases lays it out pretty clearly that he doesn't like Slash for being a "whore for the limelight". He made these types of criticisms before Slash was saying anything in the press. Anyone can read the Wild Interview from 1999 where Axl explains his resentment for Slash appearing with Michael Jackson and going on Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast. He then layed out how he felt when even his friends told him he wouldn't succeed without Slash. Classicrawker has the links to the article.

i think the superbowl was all the confirmation we need. i liked the diamond plated top hat tho. each time I read a slash quote I cringe becos it still has this slant or part of quote which still has this is all Axl's fault, he crazy etc. It's not like Duff where he holds up his hands and say it was me too. Slash still says he doesn't want to support Axl's lateness. So no change I guess..

what quotes are you talking about?

i think if Axl's hate for Slash made any legitimate sense then this thread would never have been made.

i want to see it

Axl already created GNR before slash was there, so no he wouldn't be in la guns. And although slash made some great riff, it was izzy that came up with the real magic yet he gets much less recognition.

And that answer's the OP's question how?

I think the "whore for the limelight" comment says it all. His complaints about Slash appearing on Space Ghost. All of which has no effect on Axl. I think Axl indeed resents the respect Slash gets, and expresses his envy in passing.

I don't think anyone can hold a grudge this long. Brings to mind the bitterness of Miss Havisham from Charles Dickens' Great Expectations.

I just think he sees Guns N' Roses as part of his own personality and resents the fact that he can't divest it away from Slash. Reinforcing the idea that he hates Slash is probably the only the way he set his band apart.