toroymoi

14 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Cancel culture is bad. Within reason, people should be able to say pretty much whatever they want. In my opinion, just not anything too heinous and no lies.

People can say whatever they want, and then other people can agree or disagree and also say whatever they want in response. Disagreeing, no matter how many people disagree, is not 'cancelling'.

Free speech is only under threat when the government seeks to silence people; it's not under threat when a social media website for example, bans you. That's called de-platforming, but it's not a violation of free speech as you can still say whatever you want just not on that website.

I've yet to see anyone explain what cancel culture is without making it clear they just hate people disagreeing with them or holding them accountable for bigotry, ignorance, or spreading misinformation.

Wouldn't be wasting all this money and shutting down the country if we'd just abolished this antiquated institution long ago.

Being around royalists makes me want to fill my ears with cement so I don't have to hear the delusion.

21 hours ago, Dazey said:

Problem with this whole case is that people had made their minds up before it even got into the court room.

There's honestly so many problems with this trial; the fact that it was allowed to be televised is problem #1 imo - this is what ensured the trial would become a spectacle, clips taken out of context and twisted to suit narratives, soundbites became the aim of one lawyer in particular, and being treated like a reality show (straight out of Black Mirror).

In relation to that point, I would say problem #2 is the jury not being sequestered. Although a jury typically wouldn't be for a trial like this, I think considering the profile of the case combined with the televised aspect (and subsequent social media frenzy, that's been assessed as partially fuelled by bot or bot-like activity), that it would've been the responsible thing. A juror said that his wife texted him calling Amber a "psycho" when he told her he may be on this case, and he went home to that same wife every day after court; same as the others jurors going home and have full access to family and friends, as well as the mass social media hate brigade filled with misinformation.

That of course brings us to the bleakest thing at all; the response to this by basically everyone. As I said, it was treated like a reality show with people taking sides, and I was so grossed out seeing "Johnny Depp being savage in court" compilations and things like that, as if it was some lighthearted entertainment. I saw people mocking Amber's detailing of assault, both sexual and physical, and regardless of whether or not people believe those retellings... the details were still that of assault, and will negatively affect victims who have been through similar, seeing details that match their own experience mocked.

Regardless of where people stand regarding the case itself, everyone should be disturbed by the energy and atmosphere surrounding this case. People were gleeful in their mocking and their attacks, it was vicious and it's something I've not seen before with anyone else accused of wrongdoing.

2 hours ago, Jw224 said:

There's audio of Amber apologising at the scene for hurting Johnny's finger and saying she didn't mean to do it, so I don't know why we're still trying to act like she didn't

I find it interesting that every single person that supported Johnny and gave testimony is now being written off because they were employed by him or had a relationship with him, very convenient way of getting rid of lots of testimony against Amber huh.

Amber literally only had her friends support her (who have been shown to have lied and presented many inconsistencies as well) so I guess we'll have to write off everything they have said also. 

Amber's thing during the trial was pretty much "everyone is lying or is wrong, and I am perfect" when confronted with the many inconsistencies and outright lies, and that rhetoric seems to have spread to her supporters now also.

So one decontextualised audio clip vs at least two instances where he admits to doing it himself - btw the context being that emotional manipulation can mean a victim is made to feel responsible for causing their abuser to harm themselves (this is furthered by the existence of another audio clip in which Depp threatens to cut himself whilst Amber is heard begging him not to).

It's not convenient, it's logical. If you're paying someone there's a lot of incentive there for them to lie for you, to defend you so the gravy train doesn't stop running.

Amber's 'friends' are, as far as I'm aware, not even her friends anymore and so have no incentive to go to bat for her. Also, people keep saying this but can you provide evidence of where they've lied or been inconsistent in a way that isn't explainable?

You say that about Amber, but from what I witnessed she was very willing to admit her own faults and didn't try to present herself as perfect.

4 hours ago, action said:

yes, abusers continue to work in hollywood.

best example is amber heard, who despite lying under oath, and despite severing JD's fingertip, (among other things, like shitting in his bed), still would feature in aquaman 2 (according to her own testimony in court)

The fingertip that on at least 2 occasions and to separate people (including her), he said he did to himself. I don't think the normal action of a person when someone else has severed their finger is to write bloodied messages on the wall with said finger, and even dip it in paint too but alas.

Also the faeces in the bed is most likely from their incontinent dog who even shat all over Johnny once, due to the lack of control over its bowels (or even Johnny, because based on messages he sent to a friend, he had a pre-occupation with faeces and was expressing to a friend that he wanted someone to shit on their floor as a 'prank' towards her). Oddly enough, his security guard (so a witness on his payroll) claimed that Amber admitted to doing it as a 'prank'.

4 hours ago, action said:

oh, I see. you do not even think cancellation exists. you do not live in reality.

we need to find another term then, to class all the other cases of artists losing their work as a result of unproven statements by so called "victims"

it is very easy to ruin someone's career, but it's very difficult to repair the damage done to your image

Please give me a list of people who have lost all this work based on nothing, or who have suffered based on nothing, and I mean people who haven't just decided themselves to stay out of the spotlight.

6 hours ago, action said:

as plato would say, "what is your definition of cancellation"?

him being fired from the fantastic beasts, and pirates of the carribean (the latter, even though a sequel was already planned but then canceled since amber turd wrote her article in the WP), causing him millions of missed income, is certainly cancellation from my point of view

I'm not sure what your definition of cancellation is. I certainly don't agree with it.

Shockingly uninformed post filled with falsehoods here.

I'll repeat, he was dropped from Fantastic Beasts AFTER he sued The Sun for libel and LOST (a case in which the high court judge found his responsible for 12 out of 14 instances of abuse). His place in that series was solid, he lost the role because he decided to sue.

Also again, the rumours of him being dropped from POTC were swirling before the op-ed and a Disney executive testified that the op-ed was never part of the discussion. Again, his fault for being an unreliable on-set liability.

Abusers continue to work in Hollywood, that is never at the root of why someone is dropped, they get dropped when it affects the bottomline. And Depp's belligerent on-set behaviour (like assaulting crew members which he's going to court for soon), mixed with him being a has-been who brought no financial or critical fanfare meant he was not wanted.

7 hours ago, downzy said:

Well said, and better said than what I just wrote.

This is my biggest issue with the cancel culture police.  Nobody is denying moments where things get taken too far with respect to social and economic punishments, but too much of the criticism of cancel culture seems to want to ignore why some people with past behavioural issues are finally facing some consequences. 

Never mind everything you just wrote about what's known about Johnny Depp.  All of his issues are now apparently tied to his ex-wife accusing him of abuse, never mind the other allegations of drug use, unprofessionalism, and assault.  

Precisely. I've definitely seen overreactions to certain things but cancellation as most people have imagined it to be does not exist, at most it's pushback and some people choosing not to support a project but the person themselves continues to work unaffected.

It's strange because I distinctly remember reading about Depp having a severe alcohol problem in the mid-00's or around there, obviously it was written about at that time as more comedic/less concerning, but looking back it was indicative of issues that surround him to this day. People act like his issues started with Amber, but he's long been a violent, alcoholic, drug-addict long before she came along.

On 6/2/2022 at 6:42 AM, action said:

JD was obviously canceled

How? He continued to be employed after her op-ed and the rumours of him being dropped from the POTC franchise were circling before that was released too.

It's been pointed out for years that he was a liability on set, an alcoholic drug-addict who'd bring that to work, unable to recite his lines without an earpiece because he was so out of it, turning up HOURS late and costing productions money. That's why he lost jobs.

He was also only dropped from Fantastic Beasts AFTER he lost the UK libel case (which is another case he caused to happen).

He also has another upcoming court date for assaulting a crew member on set, something which he admitted to in an interview.

He wasn't cancelled, he was a has-been who wasn't a box office draw and would actively cost productions money, not bring it in.

On 7/6/2021 at 10:12 PM, Towelie said:

Sorry but I find him so bland as to be offensive.

Uptown Funk is the only good song I've heard from him and that was really a Mark Ronson track and completely aped The Time's whole sound and gimmick.

Shit like Grenade, Just The Way You Are and that God-awful dirge where's he's singing all cutesy with the men in monkey masks in the video makes me want to one-up Van Gogh and hack both my ears off.

I mean, the 3 songs you named are all on his debut album which even he isn't a fan of and tends to ignore. He also hates "The Lazy Song" just as much as you seem to lol.

On 2/11/2021 at 10:28 PM, RussTCB said:

I was gonna leave the thread be so it could go back to being Star Wars, but I see you're still discussing the situation so I won't feel bad for derailing lol. 

In any case, while I don't agree with every single thing in this video (canceling Disney+ isn't going to do anything, etc), this cat explains a lot of how I feel about the situation:

 

Un-ironically agreeing with TheQuartering... definitely indicative of sound judgment there.

Cancel culture isn't real, I've yet to see someone who's been 'cancelled' for something not heinous and have it stick, people forget eventually and those who still care aren't paid attention to regardless of the validity of their concern. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

On 12/23/2019 at 11:27 PM, bucketfoot said:

I'm having a Brexit Xmas dinner this year. It's the same as a normal Xmas dinner, just without the Brussels.

Cringe

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Legside Lizzy, a female remainer cricket pundit who writes for The Times, is having a complete meltdown on twitter, virtually wishing death on all Tories and Brexiteers!

 

She is mad as a march hare I should point out.

Tories and people who voted Conservative would gladly see poor and suffering people dying in the streets, hungry and cold. That's worse than "virtually wishing death on Tories", they are actively voting for a party and leader who wants people who aren't rich and white to die.

It's still incredibly disturbing to see so many people not know how abuse can affect those who suffer from it.

If you are defending Michael Jackson, you are defending a pedophile, and you are helping to normalise the very abnormal behaviours he exhibited towards children.

Not only was he a pedophile, but he was a manipulative and cruel person in other ways too. Even if you don't want to believe he sexually abused children, he was still far from the kind-hearted angel his fans view him as.

Watching this really felt like wasted time.

Also there's nothing endearing about their, to put it lightly, antics. From what I've read, they left out a lot of things that would make the band look like the monsters they were.

4 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

No you didn't but you didn't present an alternative either which leaves it up to whoever reads it to speculate.

The obvious alternative would be to not abandon them, or better yet, not make them emotionally reliant upon you in the first place.

3 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Why is it an opinion whether to believe he sexually abused them whereas the story about how he abandoned them is something that cannot be questioned?

Well, we can see evidence of how he treated the boys and the luxuries he surrounded them with when they were the age he liked, the time he spent with them... we can also see when those boys fell out of favour, as he was pictured with other, younger boys and the other ones went unseen.

As has been discussed, the sexual abuse took place behind closed doors, presumably with only the boys and Michael being witnesses to it.

6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Is he bound to adopt them for life though just because they were close for a period, thats a bit of a stretch.

No, nor did I say that.

There is no question that Michael was abusive towards these boys, whether or not you believe that extended to sexual abuse is obviously an opinion, but I struggle to see how he treated and then abandoned them as anything other than abusive. To pluck these kids out of humble backgrounds, introduce them to his lifestyle, promise them the world, claim to be their close friend, tell them he loved them... only to then abandon them once they got a bit too old for him, how is that not emotional or even psychological abuse?

As for my personal opinion, I do believe he sexually abused them. Just like was said in the Oprah interview, the grooming of the children and even the parents began long before they even met Michael; his celebrity, the image he projected towards the world, the adoration... it was surely intoxicating and unlike other celebrities, that's all there was about him (at that time).

It's interesting how some people manage to find a way to blame the teenagers (actually, children) for being with adults and not the actual adults who should have the sight and mind to know it's wrong. A teenager could throw themselves at you, that doesn't mean you're not still 100% to blame as an adult who can say "no"; these rockstars weren't forced to prey on the young with a gun to head.

She's disgusting.

5 hours ago, username said:

Also, I'm really tired of everybody being offended all the time. So fucking what? When did people lose their ability to deal with it? When did we all start thinking it's terrible to offend people? By all means, offend the fuck out of them! If you offend everybody you'll soon figure it out because the world thinks you're a dickhead. If you offend some people because they're being pussies, you'll help them learn to fucking deal with it and make them more resiliant people. Go you! The world is NOT supposed to be a "safe space". It's unsafe as fuck. And so is the internet. If you want to feel safe, have good relationships with friends and family. 

 

So for the record, there are 2 genders. No more than that. Just two. Man or woman. You're one of them. In the rare medical case of being hermaphroditic you're both. You can identify as whatever the fuck you feel like, but that doesn't make it true.

Also, yay to jokes about race, gender (which, by the way, is the same as sex, just two options) , sexual orientation, religion and all that. Prejudice is fun. Use it for fun. It takes away it's power and makes society better. 

 

...sorry. Went a bit off-topic there. 

How very "old man yells at clouds".

Comedy that relies on punching down is really the lowest and least intelligent type of comedy imo.

Ace Ventura was always cringeworthy to me because Carrey's style is just so OTT in general though.

You can rip 1080p versions of (Youtube 480p) music videos from VEVO's official website.

I had to mute the preacher. He just repeated himself for what seemed like 5 minutes going on about 'God is love' in slightly different ways each time, then what seemed like another 10 minutes... it was just too much. Church services should be quick and concise, or maybe I'm just too British for the American loudness and what seemed to be an effort to make himself the spectacle.

Meghan looked gorgeous, as did her mum.